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Dragon Ball: After the End

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Hey @PoptartProdigy if we make it back to Garenhuld and restore the status quo, would it be a reasonable action to put the word out that we'd like to trade Perfect Multiform for any other Multiform innovations (read: Elite/Legendary Talents)? I figure there's a decent chance of there being at least one Elite Multiformer on Garenhuld.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
Hey @PoptartProdigy if we make it back to Garenhuld and restore the status quo, would it be a reasonable action to put the word out that we'd like to trade Perfect Multiform for any other Multiform innovations (read: Elite/Legendary Talents)? I figure there's a decent chance of there being at least one Elite Multiformer on Garenhuld.
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Is Multiform unique to Garenhuld? Do Namekians know it?
 
PoptartProdigy said:
The design principle at play is, "Some of these talents are wildly broken and they need to be balanced."
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Oh, okay. Um, could I perhaps ask you to instead restrict those by restricting their unlock events? I've seen a number of people - @Deathbybunnies and @Pittauro, at very least, and to some extent myself - who've been reluctant to develop the Talents we have available in case they lock us out of better ones. And that's highly frustrating as someone who wants to see what they do.
 
HoratioVonBecker said:
Oh, okay. Um, could I perhaps ask you to instead restrict those by restricting their unlock events? I've seen a number of people - @Deathbybunnies and @Pittauro, at very least, and to some extent myself - who've been reluctant to develop the Talents we have available in case they lock us out of better ones. And that's highly frustrating as someone who wants to see what they do.
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They are. Grinding to Elite and Legendary are like, the only non-plot ways to unlock this sort of stuff. And there are only 2 chances. They are doing it already.
 
Cariyaga said:
Is Multiform unique to Garenhuld? Do Namekians know it?
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It's a technique from Tenshinhan's weird triyclops clan, so I'd be surprised. There was an ASK vote about what techniques might be infohazards out in the wider galaxy, and the answer was that while the Namekians picked up Piccolo's techniques, none of the other techniques are remembered except for the Kamehameha, maybe the Dragon Fist, and the Spirit Bomb isn't remembered but looks weird. It's possible Multiform was independently created elsewhere, but unlikely.
 
HoratioVonBecker said:
Ah, I was under the apprehension that it was loosely plot-locked and firmly mechanics-locked. If it's truthfully the other way around, I entirely retract my concern.
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They are explicitly mechanics locked - we have two slots and can't learn more on our own, only by learning from others who have unlocked them.

You should probably just drop this. It's one thing to question design choices on grounds of verisimilitude, once. It's another to keep on poking at it when you've been explicitly told the answer is no, and it's obvious you're winding the QM up. It's not my favourite rule either, but I didn't keep asking questions about it - even innocently, about how realism is approached - because there's almost no way to phrase it in text that doesn't come across as an attack or arguing the point with the intent to get it changed.

There is no chance of you changing Poptart's mind on this. Your time is better spent elsewhere.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
Hey @PoptartProdigy if we make it back to Garenhuld and restore the status quo, would it be a reasonable action to put the word out that we'd like to trade Perfect Multiform for any other Multiform innovations (read: Elite/Legendary Talents)? I figure there's a decent chance of there being at least one Elite Multiformer on Garenhuld.
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I don't think there are any.

First of all Elite talents are incredibly rare in general. Other than Jaffur's ki refinement I can think of only two right now, at least that were explicitely mentioned: Papata Fren's communication talent (which I'd like to be taught, as far as I understood it would be incorporated into our skill without requiring the elite talent) and Berra's Super-Kaioken (that, now that I think about it, Jaffur might want to learn. If it works like I understood Super Kaioken would be its own technique to Jaffur, obviously requiring mastery (read "exceptional" level) of the basic kaioken.

Oh, also Tabe's trick. I tend to forget that it's probably his elite talent.

Yammar and a couple of tournament champions might have an elite talent or two, but those would be incredibly rare.

Second... well, multiform is an unpopular technique, the exile population is not that big, and they tend to not develop things beyond the current standard. They're mostly stagnant, with very few exceptions.

Still... @PoptartProdigy do we know of any other "advanced" techniques known by any exile that could be classified as elite talents?

Also another thing: You said Shin Kikoho is its own technique, but that it requires knowledge of the normal kikoho. Is the strenght/ability with the shin kikoho actually influenced by your skill with the basic version (as in, if you have kikoho at exceptional does that improve the "shin" version beyond it's rank, even if it's already "exceptional" itself?

HoratioVonBecker said:
Oh, okay. Um, could I perhaps ask you to instead restrict those by restricting their unlock events? I've seen a number of people - @Deathbybunnies and @Pittauro, at very least, and to some extent myself - who've been reluctant to develop the Talents we have available in case they lock us out of better ones. And that's highly frustrating as someone who wants to see what they do.
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You should probably let it go.

I understand you want both shinies and would prefer if the rules would allow it, but Poptart has clarified multiple time what the rules are, and it's obvious they're not interested in changing them.

We get one Elite talent, and one Legendary talent per skill, IF and WHEN we both unlock the research path and complete the slow grinding of the skill to that level.

It doesn't even limit us that much. If we can't continue to develop talents in one skill that just means we have to focus on other skills, the styles, or find other teachers.


And really, Elite and Legendary Talents are the big guns, the gamechangers. It would cheapen them a bit if there were too much of them around or if it was too easy to unlock them.

Maybe one of our friends/allies will achieve whatever talents we don't pursue. That would be interesting too.


HoratioVonBecker said:
Ah, I was under the apprehension that it was loosely plot-locked and firmly mechanics-locked. If it's truthfully the other way around, I entirely retract my concern.
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I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. We get leads to elite and legendary talents through plot development and/or active research of if an idea has potential (all is one and machine sense were basically unlocked by the plot, perfect multiform by active and repeated research). We pursue them mechanically by pushing a skill to elite.

There had been some confusion about how other's elite talents were treated, and it came out they become skills when taught to others.

This is the short version as far as I understand it. Do you share this understanding or see it in some other way?
Deathbybunnies said:
They are explicitly mechanics locked - we have two slots and can't learn more on our own, only by learning from others who have unlocked them.

You should probably just drop this. It's one thing to question design choices on grounds of verisimilitude, once. It's another to keep on poking at it when you've been explicitly told the answer is no, and it's obvious you're winding the QM up. It's not my favourite rule either, but I didn't keep asking questions about it - even innocently, about how realism is approached - because there's almost no way to phrase it in text that doesn't come across as an attack or arguing the point with the intent to get it changed.

There is no chance of you changing Poptart's mind on this. Your time is better spent elsewhere.
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yeah, I agree. In the end no matter how we discuss it the fact is that Poptart established their rules this way, they like it, they find it decently balanced, and are not interested in changing it.

Asking for clarifications is fine, asking for a change of the rules is not. Especially not after receiving a pretty firm "no" the first time.
 
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All right, vote's open!
Deathbybunnies said:
Hey @PoptartProdigy if we make it back to Garenhuld and restore the status quo, would it be a reasonable action to put the word out that we'd like to trade Perfect Multiform for any other Multiform innovations (read: Elite/Legendary Talents)? I figure there's a decent chance of there being at least one Elite Multiformer on Garenhuld.
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You could, at present, count the number of people with Elite-level skills on Garenhuld with two hands, but you can do that, yes.
Pittauro said:
Still... @PoptartProdigy do we know of any other "advanced" techniques known by any exile that could be classified as elite talents?

Also another thing: You said Shin Kikoho is its own technique, but that it requires knowledge of the normal kikoho. Is the strenght/ability with the shin kikoho actually influenced by your skill with the basic version (as in, if you have kikoho at exceptional does that improve the "shin" version beyond it's rank, even if it's already "exceptional" itself?
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To simplify my own bookkeeping, I'll say that the skills are decoupled once you have them both.
Pittauro said:
he's
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*coughs in gender*
 
[X] Plan Deathbybunnies
-[X] Sight: 3 (2+1)
--[X] Continue Your Training (1 AP)
--[X] Looking Abroad (1 AP) [Perfect Cell's Perfect Multiform]
--[X] Looking Abroad (1 AP) [The Namek invasion fleet - from where will it stage the invasion?]
-[X] Training: (3+2)
--[X] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Kikoho]
--[X] To Go Beyond (1 AP) [Perfect Multiform]
--[X] Style Training (2 AP) [Tien Style]
--[X] New Skills (1 AP) [Ki Overdrive] Use a vision if Kakara thinks it would be helpful.
-[X] Social: 4 (2+2)
--[X] Strengthen Host Bond (1 AP)
--[X] General Training (2 AP)
--[X] Talk to Dazarel (1 AP)
-[X] A Cause: 1 (1+0)
--[X] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Ki Refinement]

Reasoning:
Grinding up our Sight should be an auto-pick - you don't get good without putting the time in.

We should probably actually look at how Cell did his Perfect Multiform at some point, and if we're going to implement any lessons learned there into our own version we probably need to do it this turn or the next. There's a chance all we learn is "Cell made use of his unique biology", but it seems unlikely we'll learn nothing useful.

It's more efficient to just look at where the fleet will be based out of in a single vision than to spend 2 on the planets we aren't going to. After all, we don't really care about these planets for any other reason.

We're getting close to finishing Perfect Multiform! This will obviously also synergise with the Cell vision.

Getting Tien Style to Journeyman would be a big boost in a fight.

The Kikoho is an important part of our main fighting Style, and our only other big blast move - the Kamehameha - is a serious infohazard. Also, learning about life force manipulation might lead to some neat ideas in the long term.

Ki Overdrive is there on the basis that it's sort of Ki Stealth, approached in reverse: if we drop our Power Level by half and use Overdrive to double it we end up with having effectively halved our signature, with no loss in stamina compared to just being at full PL I think? It also has utility in its originally intended function, of course: fighting at a much higher effective PL for a short period.

The more we train our Host Bond, the more things we can do, and the longer we can do them for. Better to get this done earlier.

General Training will raise the overall effectiveness of our team and includes training for Bassoon. What's not to like?

Historical Insights is interesting because we don't know what we don't know - we might get cool world building, or we might get luckier and hit upon something that will change our plans later on. Knowing is half the battle!
EDIT: I've dropped Historical Insights for Talk to Dazarel, as we probably do need to put in a sustained effort for that to bear any fruit.

Ki Refinement remains really good. Ideally I'd like to get it to the point where we can maintain it permanently, without thinking about it. Also, I quite like using the A Cause AP on Jaffur's trick, but that might just be me.

There's a whole bunch of other things like Crowd Fighting I'd like to get to at some point, but don't need in the short term. I'd especially like to train All Is One, but I don't believe doing so on a small spaceship far from planets will be very efficient, and we don't need it in the immediate future. Better to wait until we're on a planet and train it then.

PoptartProdigy said:
You could, at present, count the number of people with Elite-level skills on Garenhuld with two hands, but you can do that, yes.
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For some reason I had a ratio of roughly one per skill per planet - Multiform's unlikely to have one, then. Nice to know it's not intrinsically impossible though.

EDIT: Whoops, need a destination vote:
[X][DESTINATION] Braigh.
 
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Deathbybunnies said:
[X] Plan Deathbybunnies
-[X] Sight: 3 (2+1)
--[X] Continue Your Training (1 AP)
--[X] Looking Abroad (1 AP) [Perfect Cell's Perfect Multiform]
--[X] Looking Abroad (1 AP) [The Namek invasion fleet - from where will it stage the invasion?]
-[X] Training: (3+2)
--[X] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Kikoho]
--[X] To Go Beyond (1 AP) [Perfect Multiform]
--[X] Style Training (2 AP) [Tien Style]
--[X] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Ki Overdrive]
-[X] Social: 3 (2+1)
-[X] Strengthen Host Bond (1 AP)
--[X] General Training (2 AP)
-[X] The Outside World 1 (0+1)
--[X] Historical Insights (1 AP)
-[X] A Cause: 1 (1+0)
--[X] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Ki Refinement]


For some reason I had a ratio of roughly one per skill per planet - Multiform's unlikely to have one, then. Nice to know it's not intrinsically impossible though.
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It would help in evaluating plans if you were willing to talk a bit about why you picked those things over other options?
 
[X][DESTINATION] Tamrii. Flute makes a good point; loyalty is important for the staging ground for your operations; after the Unsealing, you have a sudden and keen appreciation for making sure that your allies are reliable.

My 4 plans with differences highlighted.

[X] Plan: It's not a spaceship, it's a training room! v0
-[X] Continue Your Training (1 AP): Follow Dazarel's training regime.
-[X] Looking Abroad x2 (1 AP + 1 Free AP) [New Cold Empire's preparations for invading New Namek]: Use your Sight to look into a topic of your choice to the best of your abilities.
-[X] Style Training (1 AP) [Tenshinhan]: Make training rolls towards leveling up one of your combat styles.
-[X] Improve a Skill (Free 1 AP) [Kikoho]: Please note that you can no longer directly train super-skills like Hand-to-Hand or Ki Manipulation.
-[X] Improve a Skill (Free 1 AP) [Dodonpa]: Please note that you can no longer directly train super-skills like Hand-to-Hand or Ki Manipulation.
-[X] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Genki Dama]: Please note that you can no longer directly train super-skills like Hand-to-Hand or Ki Manipulation.
-[X] To Go Beyond (1 AP) [Ki Sense (Machine Sense)]: Select either Ki Sense or Multiform and begin training it to Elite+ levels.
-[X] Strengthen Host Bond (Free 1 AP): Deepen the metaphysical connection you have with -Bassoon by running experiments with him and exploring his mindscape.
-[X] General Training (2 AP): Spend time imparting knowledge and power onto your teammates for this mission.
-[X] Socialize With [Snare] (1 Free AP): Take advantage of this and grind up your relationship with any person of your choice.
-[X] Anything (AP Variable):
--[X] To Go Beyond (1 AP) [Multiform]: Select either Ki Sense or Multiform and begin training it to Elite+ levels.

[X] Plan: It's not a spaceship, it's a training room! v1
-[X] Continue Your Training (1 AP): Follow Dazarel's training regime.
-[X] Looking Abroad x2 (1 AP + 1 Free AP) [New Cold Empire's preparations for invading New Namek]: Use your Sight to look into a topic of your choice to the best of your abilities.
-[X] Style Training (1 AP) [Tenshinhan]: Make training rolls towards leveling up one of your combat styles.
-[X] Improve a Skill (Free 1 AP) [Kikoho]: Please note that you can no longer directly train super-skills like Hand-to-Hand or Ki Manipulation.
-[X] Improve a Skill (Free 1 AP) [Dodonpa]: Please note that you can no longer directly train super-skills like Hand-to-Hand or Ki Manipulation.
-[X] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Genki Dama]: Please note that you can no longer directly train super-skills like Hand-to-Hand or Ki Manipulation.
-[X] To Go Beyond (1 AP) [Ki Sense (All Is One)]: Select either Ki Sense or Multiform and begin training it to Elite+ levels.
-[X] Strengthen Host Bond (Free 1 AP): Deepen the metaphysical connection you have with -Bassoon by running experiments with him and exploring his mindscape.
-[X] General Training (2 AP): Spend time imparting knowledge and power onto your teammates for this mission.
-[X] Socialize With [Snare] (1 Free AP): Take advantage of this and grind up your relationship with any person of your choice.
-[X] Anything (AP Variable):
--[X] To Go Beyond (1 AP) [Multiform]: Select either Ki Sense or Multiform and begin training it to Elite+ levels.

[X] Plan: It's not a spaceship, it's a training room! v2
-[X] Continue Your Training (1 AP): Follow Dazarel's training regime.
-[X] Looking Abroad (1 AP) [New Cold Empire's preparations for invading New Namek]: Use your Sight to look into a topic of your choice to the best of your abilities.
-[X] Style Training (1 AP) [Tenshinhan]: Make training rolls towards leveling up one of your combat styles.
-[X] Improve a Skill (Free 1 AP) [Kikoho]: Please note that you can no longer directly train super-skills like Hand-to-Hand or Ki Manipulation.
-[X] Improve a Skill (Free 1 AP) [Dodonpa]: Please note that you can no longer directly train super-skills like Hand-to-Hand or Ki Manipulation.
-[X] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Genki Dama]: Please note that you can no longer directly train super-skills like Hand-to-Hand or Ki Manipulation.
-[X] To Go Beyond (1 AP) [Ki Sense (Machine Sense)]: Select either Ki Sense or Multiform and begin training it to Elite+ levels.
-[X] Strengthen Host Bond (Free 1 AP): Deepen the metaphysical connection you have with -Bassoon by running experiments with him and exploring his mindscape.
-[X] Talk to Dazarel (1 Free AP): Spend significant time and focused effort trying to connect with Dazarel.
-[X] General Training (2 AP): Spend time imparting knowledge and power onto your teammates for this mission.
-[X] Socialize With [Snare] (1 Free AP): Take advantage of this and grind up your relationship with any person of your choice.
-[X] Anything (AP Variable):
--[X] To Go Beyond (1 AP) [Multiform]: Select either Ki Sense or Multiform and begin training it to Elite+ levels.

[X] Plan: It's not a spaceship, it's a training room! v3
-[X] Continue Your Training (1 AP): Follow Dazarel's training regime.
-[X] Looking Abroad (1 AP) [New Cold Empire's preparations for invading New Namek]: Use your Sight to look into a topic of your choice to the best of your abilities.
-[X] Style Training (1 AP) [Tenshinhan]: Make training rolls towards leveling up one of your combat styles.
-[X] Improve a Skill (Free 1 AP) [Kikoho]: Please note that you can no longer directly train super-skills like Hand-to-Hand or Ki Manipulation.
-[X] Improve a Skill (Free 1 AP) [Dodonpa]: Please note that you can no longer directly train super-skills like Hand-to-Hand or Ki Manipulation.
-[X] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Genki Dama]: Please note that you can no longer directly train super-skills like Hand-to-Hand or Ki Manipulation.
-[X] To Go Beyond (1 AP) [Ki Sense (All Is One)]: Select either Ki Sense or Multiform and begin training it to Elite+ levels.
-[X] Strengthen Host Bond (Free 1 AP): Deepen the metaphysical connection you have with -Bassoon by running experiments with him and exploring his mindscape.
-[X] Talk to Dazarel (1 Free AP): Spend significant time and focused effort trying to connect with Dazarel.
-[X] General Training (2 AP): Spend time imparting knowledge and power onto your teammates for this mission.
-[X] Socialize With [Snare] (1 Free AP): Take advantage of this and grind up your relationship with any person of your choice.
-[X] Anything (AP Variable):
--[X] To Go Beyond (1 AP) [Multiform]: Select either Ki Sense or Multiform and begin training it to Elite+ levels.

Explanations below

buli-buli said:
[ ][DESTINATION] Tamrii. Flute makes a good point; loyalty is important for the staging ground for your operations; after the Unsealing, you have a sudden and keen appreciation for making sure that your allies are reliable.
I agree with the flavor text. And even if its not the staging ground, I figure a planet of loyalists is likely to have someone who knows something.

[ ] Plan: It's not a spaceship, it's a training room!

-[ ] Continue Your Training (1 AP): Dazarel hasn't let up with his insistence on training you. It's actually cute, how afraid he seems of the idea of failing in the task Grandpa Gohan gave him. It's time to make further progress. Follow Dazarel's training regime.
Duh.
-[ ] Looking Abroad x2 (1 AP + 1 Free AP) [New Cold Empire's preparations for invading New Namek]: It is difficult to fully describe the dizzying potential of your Sight. With sufficient precision and effort, literally anything past, present, or future is yours to behold. Use your Sight to look into a topic of your choice to the best of your abilities.
While vague enough we will very probably miss something, no matter what it should answer one of our questions and very likely make learning the other answers easier. Doing it twice to try and mix the results up.

-[ ] Style Training (1 AP) [Tenshinhan]: Yammar took you apart. A good part of that is who he is and the experiences he has endured, but another part was his simple superiority as a fighter. You must improve. When you return to Garenhuld, it will not be peacefully. Make training rolls towards leveling up one of your combat styles.
We need to continue pushing to improve this.
-[ ] Improve a Skill (Free 1 AP) [Kikoho]: Choose one of your existing skills to improve. Make a training roll in the specified skill. Exceptional or higher skills are a matter for the, "To Go Beyond," option below. Please note that you can no longer directly train super-skills like Hand-to-Hand or Ki Manipulation.
-[ ] Improve a Skill (Free 1 AP) [Dodonpa]: Choose one of your existing skills to improve. Make a training roll in the specified skill. Exceptional or higher skills are a matter for the, "To Go Beyond," option below. Please note that you can no longer directly train super-skills like Hand-to-Hand or Ki Manipulation.
Hopefully, get the rest of our style-related techniques out of "Unlearned" while we are at it.
-[ ] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Genki Dama]: Choose one of your existing skills to improve. Make a training roll in the specified skill. Exceptional or higher skills are a matter for the, "To Go Beyond," option below. Please note that you can no longer directly train super-skills like Hand-to-Hand or Ki Manipulation.
It offends me that the "Spirit Saiyan" is "Unlearned" in this skill. It's our trump card and Kakara is going to be trapped in a metal ball alongside people who are in on the secret. Perfect opportunity.
-[ ] To Go Beyond (1 AP) [Ki Sense (Machine Sense]: You have experienced moments throughout your life that hint at an understanding of your current techniques which few can equal. You have the chance to truly push the boundaries of your people's knowledge. Select either Ki Sense or Multiform and begin training it to Elite+ levels.
Again. Metal ball. Nowhere to go. Also, I want this as opposed to "All is One" because I am hoping to meet and surprise Great-Grandma Lazuli. And I figure "All Is One" would be easier to manage as a Legendary afterward than vice versa. Finally, it has obvious uses.

-[ ] Strengthen Host Bond (Free 1 AP): Neither you nor Bassoon fully understand the nature of the ties that bind you. Perhaps you can unravel the mystery of your presence here. Deepen the metaphysical connection you have with -Bassoon by running experiments with him and exploring his mindscape.
Host Bond determines how long Kakara can physically manifest herself and IIRC how much energy she can share with Bassoon.
-[ ] General Training (2 AP): Now that you can communicate with people outside of Bassoon's head, you intend to take advantage of it. Spend time imparting knowledge and power onto your teammates for this mission.
The Namekians just don't hold up to Kakara and she's not even a dedicated combatant among her people. Making the rest stronger not only improves the mission's chances, but it also improves Namek's chances in the coming war.
-[ ] Socialize With [Snare] (1 Free AP): You can now use your telepathy to speak with individuals outside of Bassoon's head, and your social circle has thus expanded tremendously. Take advantage of this and grind up your relationship with any person of your choice.
I could spend this last AP mechanically, but I feel like Kakara needs to socialize and Snare sounds like he ought to have good stories.

-[ ] Anything (AP Variable): You may fill this category with any type of action from any other category, as long as it applies directly to improving your ability to defeat Dandeer.
--[ ] To Go Beyond (1 AP) [Multiform]: You have experienced moments throughout your life that hint at an understanding of your current techniques which few can equal. You have the chance to truly push the boundaries of your people's knowledge. Select either Ki Sense or Multiform and begin training it to Elite+ levels.
Until Kakara learns how to disrupt Dandeer's mind control on others, she needs to plan on fighting multiple Super Saiyans.
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[X] Plan: It's not a spaceship, it's a training room! v3

All it takes to get my vote is adding talking to Dazarel and not removing All is One and strengthening host bond! :D
 
TaliesinSkye said:
It would help in evaluating plans if you were willing to talk a bit about why you picked those things over other options?
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I have edited in an explanation for my plan:
Deathbybunnies said:
Reasoning:
Grinding up our Sight should be an auto-pick - you don't get good without putting the time in.

We should probably actually look at how Cell did his Perfect Multiform at some point, and if we're going to implement any lessons learned there into our own version we probably need to do it this turn or the next. There's a chance all we learn is "Cell made use of his unique biology", but it seems unlikely we'll learn nothing useful.

It's more efficient to just look at where the fleet will be based out of in a single vision than to spend 2 on the planeta we aren't going to. After all, we don't really care about these planets for any other reason.

We're getting close to finishing Perfect Multiform! This will obviously also synergise with the Cell vision.

Getting Tien Style to Journeyman would be a big boost in a fight.

The Kikoho is an important part of our main fighting Style, and our only other big blast move - the Kamehameha - is a serious infohazard. Also, learning about life force manipulation might lead to some neat ideas in the long term.

Ki Overdrive is there on the basis that it's sort of Ki Stealth, approached in reverse: if we drop our Power Level by half and use Overdrive to double it we end up with having effectively halved our signature, with no loss in stamina compared to just being at full PL I think? It also has utility in its originally intended function, of course: fighting at a much higher effective PL for a short period.

The more we train our Host Bond, the more things we can do, and the longer we can do them for. Better to get this done earlier.

General Training will raise the overall effectiveness of our team and includes training for Bassoon. What's not to like?

Historical Insights is interesting because we don't know what we don't know - we might get cool world building, or we might get luckier and hit upon something that will change our plans later on. Knowing is half the battle!

Ki Refinement remains really good. Ideally I'd like to get it to the point where we can maintain it permanently, without thinking about it. Also, I quite like using the A Cause AP on Jaffur's trick, but that might just be me.

There's a whole bunch of other things like Crowd Fighting I'd like to get to at some point, but don't need in the short term. I'd especially like to train All Is One, but I don't believe doing so on a small spaceship far from planets will be very efficient, and we don't need it in the immediate future. Better to wait until we're on a planet and train it then.
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I obviously am a fan of my plan the most, but Deathbybunnies's is a reasonable second choice. Compared to Deathbybunnies, this plan would have us start working on the Thunder Shock Surprise, which would synergize with perfect multiform and our psychic lightning shield. It also gets us started on All is One and generally does a bit more training. Also, I think it meets your requirements @Cariyaga :p.

[X] Plan Broad Training
-[X] Sight: 2 + 1 free
--[X] Continue Your Training (1 AP)
--[X] Looking Abroad (1 AP) [Where will the Namek invasion fleet stage before attacking Namek?]
--[X] Looking Abroad (1 AP) [Master Roshi using the Thunder Shock Surprise]
-[X] Training: 3 + 4 free
--[X] To Go Beyond (1 AP) [Ki Sense: All is One]
--[X] Style Training (1 AP) [Tenshinhan Style]
--[X] Style Training (1 AP) [Tenshinhan Style]
--[X] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Kikoho]
--[X] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Genki Dama]
--[X] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Ki Refinement]
--[X] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Crowd Fighting]
-[X] Social: 2 + 0 free
--[X] Strengthen Host Bond (1 AP)
--[X] Talk to Dazarel (1 AP)
-[X] A Cause: 1 + 0 free
--[X] To Go Beyond (1 AP) [Perfect Multiform]
 
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googlyeyesultra said:
[X] Plan Broad Training
[X] Plan Deathbybunnies

I obviously am a fan of my plan the most, but Deathbybunnies's is a reasonable second choice. I've quoted mine below for y'alls perusal. Compared to Deathbybunnies, this plan would have us start working on the Thunder Shock Surprise, which would synergize with perfect multiform and our psychic lightning shield. It also gets us started on All is One and generally does a bit more training. Also, I think it meets your requirements @Cariyaga :p.
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For the sake of the vote tally, could you reproduce your plan vote (with [X]s) in that post directly rather than just quoting it? Will make things much easier to review quickly.
 
PoptartProdigy said:
*coughs in gender*
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*grumbles annoyed before going through the previous post to find the runaway pronoun...*


[X] Plan Broad Training

It has all is one, perfect multiform and the thunder shock surprise. I'm not sure I would have put 2 ap in tien style, mostly because that second ap likely won't be as effective as the first, but I understand that ranking up the style sooner might be worth a bit of inefficiency.

I wonder if Roshi will be flattered if we end up developing his old technique. The Kamehameha is already widely known throughout the galaxy, but his other original technique has basically been forgotten.

Also at some point I REALLY want to rediscover the Mafuba/Evil containment wave as well, though that's a technique that requires some caution. It seems like it's pretty easy to develop a counter for it if you know about the move. Piccolo developed it after he/his father saw the technique twice (three times if you consider the anime instead of the manga), Frost apparently only needed the one time...
 
[X] Plan Broad Training
[X] Plan: It's not a spaceship, it's a training room! v3
 
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Deathbybunnies said:
because there's almost no way to phrase it in text that doesn't come across as an attack or arguing the point with the intent to get it changed.
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Hopefully, this is an exception.
@PoptartProdigy, my worry is that Kakara will do something else so ridiculously impressive - and probably unexpected, like mastering Spirit Saiyan - that we unlock a third possible Sensing talent, and have no way to get all of them. Saying that any such event will unlock something different, that doesn't conflict with the Talent limit, would ease my mind a great deal. Was that your intention all along?
 
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