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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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If someone could compile links to each chapter that gives an insight into Mari that would be helpful. I've seen some folks posting a few such links interspersed throughout the past few days which is a good start.
 
roobee said:
If someone could compile links to each chapter that gives an insight into Mari that would be helpful. I've seen some folks posting a few such links interspersed throughout the past few days which is a good start.
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Not exhaustive by far:
Specifically bring up that she was deeply reluctant to use genjutsu earlier, and ask why that's changed.
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Seems risky, @Evenstar. We don't know what TLitF's price is, and therefore what choosing to use it means for Mari, and therefore what reaction bringing it up might provoke. If the price is particularly horrible, it might serve as a very good opportunity for her to lash out, put Hazou off-balance, and shut down the conversation (the way she did there, about her uncle). And we can't prepare him because, again, we don't know what to prepare him for. Do benefits of bringing it up outweigh the risks?

We do need to figure out what it does to her, but I would argue this is exactly not the time to do so.

Broadly agree with everything else.
 
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Oh, while we're making insightful observations about social specialists:

[insert standard disclaimer that the below is strictly conditional on the person in question not lying about everything]
Ami said:
I live for control, freedom, and fun. No one gets to take those away, not even myself.
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She has a standing precommitment to avoid all serious commitments, even those that, to a first approximation, would be highly beneficial to her goals.
  • She sees all formal arrangements as such commitments, as bounds upon her, and will avoid them if she's able. She'll straight-up turn down offers to become Kage, because accepting them is an implicit promise to act as the title/job demands, and it has very specific responsibilities, obligations, and powers. Same with political marriages, adoptions, repatriations...
  • Fulfilling her own promises is the smallest concession, the only constraint on her future behaviour, that she accepts, simply because she can't effectively function in society otherwise.
  • Her modus operandi, i. e. favour networks, is built around this.
    • She's the only thing that's necessary for them to function. She doesn't need constant allies or resources or any social structures, just herself. She could go anywhere in the world on a whim and spin them out of whole cloth.
    • Her power is flexible and fully general. She could earn the favour of any person if she tries hard enough, and she could spend this favour in any way she wants.
    • She doesn't have any concrete obligations. She chooses who earns her favour, and she could veto specific favour requests.
  • The organizations she builds are informal, and if AMI is any indication, seem to be designed to work fine even without her input.
  • Even her relationships with her right-hand and left-hand men were "built for separation", as she notes in the chapter I'm quoting above.
    • (I'm wondering if those childhood promises that made them her eternal close allies aren't a mistake of a younger, less forward-thinking Ami, a mistake the current Ami now regrets — but that's a fairly wild speculation.)
  • Her attachment to Keiko is an odd one out here, a type of commitment she doesn't seem to have to anything else, let alone any other person. (Although you'll note she seemed very eager to cut it off given an excuse.)
  • She'll probably go missing-nin outright if the stigma against them lessens further.
Honestly? She takes the mindset to an extreme, but it makes her very relatable, at least to me. Living off of favour networks? #LifeGoals
Ami said:
The most dangerous is emotion. By default, human beings are not taught how to identify their emotions beyond basic intuition, much less how to manage them. There is no casual solution for this except to learn the detail of your inner world to excruciating depth—a task more difficult in your case since you can never count on being in a completely unmanipulated state. Be in alignment, and learn what baseline feelings you experience in any given situation.
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On an unrelated note, that's a fairly good advice, and it applies IRL as well. Sometimes emotions fade into background, beneath even the notice of focused conscious self-reflection. I've found that constantly comparing your behaviour to how you'd expect yourself to act, noting the discrepancies between the two, and trying to pin down what caused the discrepancy is a very effective tool of self-analysis.

(If you want to be poetic, you could say that the outer horror whose influence you're trying to detect is Azathoth, with its tendrils buried deep within your psyche, thrashing madly.)
 
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Just thought I'd share some observations or thoughts I've had on TLitF and what it could mean for Mari. The following quotes were taken from the links to that were put up earlier by Noumero.

Velorien said:
"Good reflexes, Hazō!" Inoue-sensei beamed, unconcerned. "Here's the thing, though. A genjutsu mistress facing three genin who only just learned the technique? From that same mistress, no less? I can just overwhelm you with pure chakra. It's not something that comes up very much, because if you're that much stronger than the enemy, you don't normally need to bother with genjutsu in the first place."
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Velorien said:
She blinked as if remembering something. "Oh, yeah. Whatever you choose, I won't hurt you. You're in a forbidden genjutsu called Truth Lost in the Fog. As long as I'm willing to pay the price, I can choose for you to wake up as if you were dreaming, and forget everything you saw and heard.
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Velorien said:
"So I threw myself into helping her, because I wanted to believe that I could. I talked to her, I protected her, I adapted my genjutsu to do things it was never designed to do. It took its toll, on both me and her. But I managed to hold her together. I couldn't save her, but at least I could keep her alive, and a person, and with enough mental health to keep struggling through the mist.
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eaglejarl said:
Mari shrugged. "Hey, you have to play the cards you're dealt, right?"

Hazō goggled. "Are you kidding? Sage's blistering boils, no. I play the cards that I tucked up my sleeves, and into my vest, and into my pant cuff. And I tell my secret partner how to play his cards too."

"Really? Huh. Personally, I just invade your mind, look through your eyes to see what your cards are, and then completely rewrite your subjective reality such that I win. But yours is good too I guess.
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eaglejarl said:
"It's fine," Mari said. "Noburi, I appreciate your concern, but genjutsu doesn't work like that. I'm not a Yamanaka; I can't actually see Naruto's thoughts or memories when I'm using my technique on him, only the images that I'm putting in his mind. There's no way the seal could have affected me." She smiled, green eyes twinkling. "And no, I'm not hungry."

Glances were exchanged. Dubious ones.
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I believe Mari was lying about how cut and dry the process is about the Genjutsu is with TLitF.

I'll take a stab at guessing what the puzzle is showing is that there is in fact some bleed over other than her remembering the process of TLitF. In comparison to regular genjutsu users, Mari's doing work that's more invasive.

In Mari's case, she's a genjutsu user who goes far beyond using chakra to present illusions and manipulating the senses; she uses TLitF to change, add, and delete memories (the spiritual side of chakra itself).

The problem is she's a great illusionist playing a Yamanaka game when she doesn't have half the prep, tools, precautions, and expertise they have.

Also consider that she's peaked into the mind of a Mori and Kurosawa multiple times, numerous Jounin, and Sage knows what else.

So, in conclusion, I think that while TLitF erases Mari's presence, Mari takes back the entire process with her and her chakra is exposed much more intimately to her target's than most genjutsu users.

Those are my 2 cents.
 
Orisha91 said:
So, in conclusion, I think that while TLitF erases Mari's presence, Mari takes back the entire process with her and her chakra is exposed much more intimately to her target's than most genjutsu users.
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The idea I'm getting is that she merges a piece of her mind with her target to create a bridge. She corrupts that piece to serve her purposes and then cuts it off from herself to prevent contamination. It may be that it doesn't just cost memories and actually incurs a small amount of permanent damage to her brain and/or soul.
 
MadScientist suggested this plan in Discord.

[Χ] Action Plan: Screaming in Mari
  • Prep: Alter your appearance in subtle ways.
    • Buy a new article of clothing and put it on.
    • Get a slight haircut.
    • Put some grit in your shoe to change your walk.
    • This will cause Mari to be instinctively unsure of herself in regards to what's going on with you.
  • Enter the clearing where Mari is to be foun
    • Touch the Out.
    • Order Mari to stand to attention, eyes straight ahead, and not speak unless spoken to.
    • Tell Mari that she has failed in her mission to keep the clan safe.
      • By allowing herself to lose her character development, she has endangered the clan.
      • She has already displayed unnecesarry and gleeful sadism towards its head.
      • The person the mission was given to would not have done this, and therefore showed catastrophic incompetence by allowing her personality to change into that of a potential enemy.
      • She is off the mission effective immediately, further change in this direction cannot be allowed.
    • Stop touching the Out.
    • Tell Mari that you could forgive the person she was for stealing you away from Hana, but that forgiveness is revoked because you don't believe her current self is capable of sufficient remorse.
    • Order Mari to report to your office tomorrow morning for reassignment.
    • Dismiss her.
 
[X] Action Plan: Heart-piercer (427 words)
  • Dispel.
  • Cool off.
  • Give Mari some time to think, then find her.
    • Start by apologizing for calling her "cunt".
    • Ask her to come talk in a comfy, secure location.
      • If she refuses, let her sulk until she's willing.
  • Reiterate your concerns. Ensure Mari understands.
    • Mari-sensei's a good teacher. What was the lesson in hurting you, then mocking your pain?
      • Rhetorical question.
      • If a serious, specific answer is offered, consider it.
    • Her eyes are changing colors more often. Why?
      • Let her duck this. (You're showing you've noticed.)
  • Admit fault, and reach out.
  • You forced her to work for the clan again. Though you said you needed Mari the tool, you also meant to save Mari the person.
    • Forestall her if she tries to claim that person isn't real. (No negative self-talk.)
  • Show you know her better than she expects.
    • Talk about all the Maris you know. Don't flinch from harsh ones. (Mentor, protector, weapon, interrogator, sadist, prankster, comrade, big sister, friend...)
    • Specifically mention her...
      • saving Akane by torturing Arikada.
      • sacrificing herself for Kagome in Isan.
  • Demonstrate you don't have blind faith in her.
    • Address her past sins. (Don't let her distract with horrible details.)
      • Yes, she's tortured one of her family to death.
      • Yes, she's betrayed and killed those she loved.
      • Yes, she enjoyed it. She was a good tool, and served her purpose well.
      • Yes, she has an inner monster.
    • You don't condone her actions, but...
    • She must reconcile with that monster.
      • Not pretend it away, or that it is her.
      • Not let it rule her.
      • Not imprison or destroy it.
  • Make it impossible for Mari to keep lying to herself.
    • She's not the monster she believes she is.
      • But this path might lead there.
    • She'll never be an unfeeling tool.
      • Becoming invulnerable by killing all your loves is a nightmare, not a goal.
      • What remains afterwards won't be her.
    • Her love was never a lie, otherwise she could never have been hurt by it.
      • She can no more deny Mari-Sensei, Jiraiya's wife, than the Heartbreaker.
      • (This risks violence. Say it anyway.)
  • Reaffirm you trust and care about her deeply.
    • She's Gōketsu, Team Uplift, your sensei, and you'll always fight for Gōketsu Mari against the Heartbreaker.
  • Ask her to let the clan take some of the political side.
    • She can't do it all forever, and right now it's hurting her.
    • Alternate contributions?
      • Taijutsu mentoring?
      • Estate planning?
      • Med-nin training?
      • Clan finances?
    • Our clan will have better ideas if she asks.
  • Remember, duty cuts both ways.
    • If you must protect her from herself, you will.
      • She's done the same for you.
 
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@Evenstar Thoughts:
  • Mari has used genjutsu on us for training before, like when she used it before we left Iron for training, or all those times she genjutsu'd Hazou to do the hair-ruffle thing. I wouldn't call her "relucant to use it", unless you're talking about TLitF specifically (which is true).
  • Maybe it's just me, but I'm not really seeing Mari having been pushed past the breaking point by Hazou. I'm pretty sure that you're talking about when Hazou got Mari snapped out of her funk: FMPOV she was able to latch to her sense of Belonging as you have said, but that's not being shoved beyond the point where you can function (which is what I'm interpreting "being pushed beyond the breaking point"), that's giving her something to latch onto.
  • When we talk about faces, it might be a good idea to not excuse Mari's 'evil' faces so much as acknowledging that they are there and trying to understand them, and try using that to challenge her to be better (yes, I'm plagarizing Ricochet, sue me).
    • Also part of that section, talk about how she saved Kagome by Substituting herself into the path of a barrage of kunai. After he deliberately disobeyed her direct orders in a battlefield situation and put himself in said situation. While bleeding out from a gut wound that Noburi freaked out over afterwards (this is Chapter 50).
  • I actually disagree that Mari'll become the monster <completely> if she keeps things up, but that's just me. I'm more of a "Even if you don't change for the rest of your life, I'll still believe in you" or something like that. No idea if that makes things worse or not, but that's just me.
  • When discussing possible things she could do, one thing could involve looking over the clan finances, or Akane's "build a garden" thing which she suggested to Tsunade as an alternative so long ago. Maybe she could work with a midwife (IIRC she thinks she'd be a shit mother, so maybe that would backfire)?
 
@Evenstar My primary complain with that plan is that past experience has told me that putting words directly into Hazou's mouth tends to turn out poorly.
 
Oh yeah, right.

[X] Evenstar

Because Jashin knows my plan isn't going to end up better.

Edit: Roobee was right, we should have unvoted my plan earlier. ...would it be rude for me to just copy + paste hers into mine?
 
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