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I don't understand how Kakara can get to Dandeer against Berra's sky-high dueling.
Because while Berra didn't spend the past ten years teaching Kakara everything Berra knows, he certainly tried to do so. Kakara has Exceptional dueling herself, mostly though not entirely cancelling Berra's skill advantage.

Which throws the issue back onto the relative speed levels (advantage to Kakara, massively) and the inherent ease of defending versus getting a shot off against a vulnerable 'squishy' target (again, advantage Kakara)

That's more or less the way it'd work, yeah. Mind, Berra is still terrifyingly good, but the speed debuff and the fact that he can't actually go all-out without snapping the wards mean that Kakara thinks it's feasible to work around him.
Is "all out" for Golden Oozaru 1.5 billion, or 1.875 billion?
 
Is "all out" for Golden Oozaru 1.5 billion, or 1.875 billion?
1.5 Billion. 1.875 is SS2. Remember we almost snapped the wards when we first achieved GO and we weren't at max base oozaru power level. We usually had a few sorcerers temporarily reinforcing the wards when GO was trained but right now that isn't the case.
 
Hm, I forget, does Golden combine Oozaru with whatever stage of Super Saiyan you've got up, or is it just set?
 
Official Compliant Omake: Dandeer Unsealing Negaverse
Meanwhile, in the Dandeer negaverse:

readyplayer said:
PILLSBURY YOU PASTRY SHIT WHAT IS THIS BS?!
malacan said:
Agreed. This is ridiculous. We spent how many action points bracing for this, and the little brat is doing this well? We should have her mind-whammied already!
Cassandra said:
Oh look, another place where spending the last decade building another mass mind-wipe would've been helpful. What a surprise.
Remalaide said:
Cassandra said:
Oh look, another place where spending the last decade building another mass mind-wipe ritual would've been helpful. What a surprise.
ffs Cassie just stop with this shit IT DIDN'T HAPPEN OKAY
ledgerhedger said:
Cassandra said:
Oh look, another place where spending the last decade building another mass mind-wipe would've been helpful. What a surprise.
Look, the Final Project was more important! I get it, you didn't win, but it's been ten in-game years, let it go. We can still win this!
PillsburyDoughNeuter said:
Please stop relitigating votes from 2014, people.
kitetime said:
Wtf Berra! Seriously, what does he think hes doing blasting Jaffar like that! He could've killed our son! Pillsbury, what are you trying to pull her?

edit: and dont think I missed what he did to Vegeta's tail. What, is he just managing to blast everybody we love despite being under our control?
MasquedBaron said:
Oh great, the QM's Mary Sue gets to show off how awesome and special she is all over again. What was even the point of spending all that time dumping AP into magic training if super saiyans can still speedblitz us? Fuck this shit, I'm out. So disappointed with the way this quest has turned.
Temor said:
MasquedBaron said:
Oh great, the QM's Mary Sue gets to show off how awesome and special she is all over again. What was even the point of spending all that time dumping AP into magic training if super saiyans can still speedblitz us? Fuck this shit, I'm out. So disappointed with the way this quest has turned.
Baron, you say that every vote.
April said:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

You all are screwed.
Malikasays said:
Wow, ki OP much, Pillsbury? Clearly she can just hard-counter everything we're doing without consequences. We haven't gotten off a SINGLE SPELL in the entire fight! It's just been line after line of super saiyans wrecking shit! Glad to see only NPCs have agency.
Mack_the_Black said:
Calm down, everybody, we haven't lost. We were going into a 3v3 fight. We knew it wouldn't be instant (most of us did, anyway). We've got Jaffur out of the fight already. That's their best fighter gone. Now it's just Kakara and Apra. So, Apra. We've got this.

Seriously, can you imagine how pissed the Kakara!negaverse voters have to be? They went into this expecting a complete curbstomp!
kitetime said:
Mack_the_Black said:
Calm down, everybody, we haven't lost. We were going into a 3v3 fight. We knew it wouldn't be instant (most of us did, anyway). We've got Jaffur out of the fight already. That's their best fighter gone. Now it's just Kakara and Apra. So, Apra. We've got this.

Seriously, can you imagine how pissed the Kakara!negaverse voters have to be? They went into this expecting a complete curbstomp!
more like theyre busy cheering that the best sorcerer in the world cant even cast something on them and even when we win our pawn nearly kill our son. SHES TWELVE.
PillsburyDoughNeuter said:
kitetime said:
more like theyre busy cheering that the best sorcerer in the world cant even cast something on them and even when we win our pawn nearly kill our son. SHES TWELVE.
Thirteen.
Malikasays said:
PillsburyDoughNeuter said:
Great, that's so much better.



Just for fun. The salt knows no boundaries. :rofl:
 
[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] Go for Dandeer's tail, using her as a flail to keep Berra at bay while Dandelor breaks the mind control.

I want to see that negaverse.
 
Wait, just realized something.

Wouldn't the Dandeer-player base be incredibly salty over the fact that JAFFUR SOMEHOW ACHIEVED MASTERED SUPER SAIYAN WHILE BEING FREAKING SEALED? Like, that'd definitely be a WHATTHEFUCKTHISMAKESNOFUCKINGSENSE moment.
That's our son.:D

See? This is why we should never have Sealed him.
 
Incidentally, can Kakara (or someone else, for that matter), give gentle -- or not so gentle, in the case of Berra -- nudges to adjust someone's traits?
 
Look, the Final Project was more important! I get it, you didn't win, but it's been ten in-game years, let it go. We can still win this!

..Wait, this isn't a hint at something, right?

..And right, another argument for going for either Vegeta or Jaffur first.

Right now, we have an opportunity to pretty much act with impunity, since our only obstacle is a much slower Berra. Once Vegeta gets back up to Super Saiyan, though, that opportunity is no longer there.

Meanwhile, if we even out the numbers, either by healing Jaffur so he can fight Vegeta or knocking Vegeta out of the fight, we'll maintain the opportunity to bypass Berra and we can still go for Dandeer, but the opposite isn't true.

Therefore, I think the best course of action would actually be to first go for Vegeta, then heal Jaffur and then go for Dandeer, which will maintain our advantage the entire time (or, if Berra tries to go for Dandelor or the Senzus, go for Dandeer immediately so he'll have to oppose us).

Of course, once we make sure that Berra is the only enemy free to oppose us (either by knocking out Vegeta or getting Jaffur back up to oppose him), I actually agree that using Dandeer as a hostage (whether or not this involves flailing her around) would actually be a very good option.

It's just that even if we go for evening out the fight now, we can still swing Dandeer around like a flail later.

I wouldn't mind voting for the Dandeer-flail (since it's a variation of using her as a hostage which could be a fight-ender) if we manage to even out the fight, it's just that I don't think we can hold off both Berra and Vegeta at the same time.
 
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*tilts head*

The answer to that depends entirely on by what means you suppose this should occur.
In Berra's case: Confronting him with the consequences of his philosophy, in the case of what's going on right now.

In Jaffur's case: Slowly pushing him to be less... murdery. And hopefully getting rid of that yandere obsession in the process
 
In Berra's case: Confronting him with the consequences of his philosophy, in the case of what's going on right now.

In Jaffur's case: Slowly pushing him to be less... murdery. And hopefully getting rid of that yandere obsession in the process
Kakara is eminently suited to the Communication method of changing people's traits. It takes time, though.
 
In Berra's case: Confronting him with the consequences of his philosophy, in the case of what's going on right now.
I don't think it's Berra's philosophy as much as his personality traits that lead to this, and since the problematic trait in this case is Atoner, assuming we win the fight, confronting him about this will just give him more to regret and atone for.

As for Jaffur, not being trapped in his own mind + getting some therapy would likely help.

So, as a related question, @PoptartProdigy, what are Saiyans opinions on mental health issues and mental health care? Are there any Saiyan therapists, or do they consider mental problems as a sign of weakness?
 
I don't think it's Berra's philosophy as much as his personality traits that lead to this, and since the problematic trait in this case is Atoner, assuming we win the fight, confronting him about this will just give him more to atone for.

As for Jaffur, not being trapped in his own mind + getting some therapy would likely help.

So, as a related question, @PoptartProdigy, what are Saiyans opinions on mental health issues and mental health care? Are there any Saiyan therapists, or do they consider mental problems as a sign of weakness?
That's come up a few times, actually. Saiyan society has a distinctly unhealthy view of mental health care, and of mental health issues in general. Imagine the American perspective, but dialed up several notches. To the point where the Exiles have three -- yes, three -- therapists. In total. In their view, mental issues really shouldn't be a thing, and admitting them is weakness.

Berra's personal crusade for the duration of his term as Lord has been an effort to push a healthier view of the mental health and its attendant medical field, and it's been slow going. He has recently succeeded in establishing a formal school, but given that it takes a doctor to make a doctor, growth is slow. It's starting, though. Changing the public's mind is another matter. One of the reasons Berra's so thrilled to have a talker for a daughter. Helpful, if they pool their efforts.
 
In Berra's case: Confronting him with the consequences of his philosophy, in the case of what's going on right now.
I'm not sure Kakara really has a clear picture in-setting of what Berra's philosophy IS. Most 13-14 year olds really don't understand their parents that well, especially when a lot of their parent's personality is defined by traumatic experiences that took place before the child was born. Or, in Kakara's case, when she was a toddler far too young to know what was going on because she was too busy being a flying toddler.

...

Seriously, if I ever write Metronome, the counterpart piece to Buzzsaw in which Piccolo stylist Mitsuba Roma encounters Kakara-from-before-quest-start, it will include Mitsuba's deep, heart-wrenching empathy for the troubles Kala (?) must have raising a little girl who was flying at the age of about two and who learned how to freaking teleport at six or seven.

While she does have Exceptional dueling, her best style is at novice, and that has been called out as being a major factor.
Yes, but we've also been explicitly told that fighting styles have to be radically altered when fighting as an oozaru- remember Poptart pointing out that we haven't seen Yammar fight, we've only seen him pilot a kaiju?

Plus, the style advantage, if any, still gets offset against the advantages I already listed, namely that Berra is physically a lot slower and trying to do an inherently harder thing.



Just for fun. The salt knows no boundaries. :rofl:
Meanwhile, in Maya Quest:

BrilliantBaklava said:
So you call Jaron's house and hit voice mail. Which is funny. If they were all off on a family outing, you...think someone would have mentioned it?

Also, if any of those poster names were intended as parody-me, I PROMISE not to get mad if you'll please tell me which one. ;)



..Now I'm curious about what's going in the Berra negaverse.
A lot of screaming, I'd imagine.
The Berra Quest voters are locked in padded cells somewhere, muttering "...it was supposed to be a Dragonball quest. Why didn't it follow shonen tropes properly? WHY COULDN'T IT BE SHONEN!?"
 
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I somehow get the feeling that, when we become Lady, we will be using our Communication and greatly expanded power to make 'Therapist' a much more acceptable job for Saiyans. And perhaps having mandatory therapy sessions for nobles.
 
Also, if any of those poster names were intended as parody-me, I PROMISE not to get mad if you'll please tell me which one. ;)
I deliberately avoided parodying anybody in particular in order to avoid having to issue uncomfortable answers to questions like this, with one exception: April, in the nega-verse, was based on somebody in particular. Not you, though. ;)
 
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