I'm concerned that since our understanding of the limits of Oriko's powers weren't part of our metaknowledge, and instead were something Oriko personally told us about, Homura won't be inclined to trust it.

(And she knows that it wasn't part of our metaknowledge, since we didn't volunteer it during the timestop hunt for Oriko.)
Well, she did go straight from smug to horrified when we brought her out of timestop to threaten witching Kirika, implying she didn't predict it.
Balancing Kirika's Soul Gem in the open palm of your hand, and keeping the amorphous cloud of Grief you'd cleared from your own Gem hanging above you, you grab the reel of thread again.

Colour floods back in to the seer, and she shakes her head in disorientation before putting her hand to it. She looks at you, and smirks, before covering her mouth genteely. "I wasn't expecting to meet you again so soo-"

She sees the Soul Gem in the palm of your hand, and her eyes dart up to the bilious cloud hanging above you. "Oh, no. No. No, no, no."

"Yes." Grim finality. "I will do it, Oriko. I don't want to. I really, really don't want to. Give me a reason not to."

"I... OK. Just... please, don't," Oriko says, breathing hard and fast. She's trembling, full body quivers. "Do you know how muc- yes, of course you do. P-please."

EDIT:
And I'm pretty sure we gave her horrible headaches when we were interfering in the magical girl war.
 
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[X] Kaizuki

Then Madoka, the Madoka she wished for, is already dead and beyond her reach.

[JK] Hug Homura
-[JK] Get Madoka to hug Homura

Mmmhm. I wonder if I weren't mistaken in my previous line of thought. Homura might actually respond to an emotional appeal better than a logical one.

Sabrina I've staked my everyone's life on the theory that you're a person, actual and whole, and if I'm wrong, you'd best shoot me now... [Homura cocks the gun she is pointing at Sabrina]
Sabrina: Or, we could talk some more.


new favorite phrase found.
 
It would set off Sayaka's hunting instinct to ignore her. But we can ask her to stand down gently? We are in Japan, this should be expected. If Homura wants to talk, we let her. Watch for risks to Mami.
I want to give Homura a dual proof of safety, and long term utility re: Madoka. If she wants to go in full detail about these points, we could. Or she might acknowledge them.

Troubleshoot the small version? Here I go.


[X] to Sayaka - If it isn't a matter of retribution, could that question be dropped? Homura is on the spot if you insist. Give her a few months?

[X] Homura. Saving people who will accept being saved can't be wrong. And, when they help our friends, it matters more to us.

[X] Oriko is changing. Not a threat now. We think we have her on your side, contributing to Mitakihara.

-[X] As an ally, Oriko has already helped us build a bigger and safer community. She has skills to trade.

-[X] Ask about her own evaluation and inspection of Oriko.

[X] We keep taking them out to interact, and watch the results

[X] What is the better alternative?

[X] Offer hugs. Accept fear. Share hope.

[X] Plan joint agreement of next stage Oriko imprisonment, rules. Future hearing, and sentencing.

[jk] Still faster than most national justice systems!

[X] return timestop

[X] Group enchant? That soft rock is ready for other magic now...?

[X] More on the GENERAL topic of adult help now? Anri is still out there, we still need development assistance, refugees are in mourning, ask alternatives. Ask preferences for how they want to see this happen.
 
[X] Cut in with Sayaka: It ties into some different, deeply personal things for Homura. I'm not saying not to ask her, or that she should or shouldn't answer, because that's not my place. I'm just saying it's connected to a lot of other, really heavy things for Homura, so that you know just how big of a question you're asking her. So that if she doesn't want to answer, you'll know why. Then pull back a moment so Homura can decide whether she wants to get into that, knowing that Sayaka shouldn't be offended if she declines to answer. (If she does, break vote here, because that'd be huge!)
-[X] Subtext: I have just been talking about really deep personal history knowledge for Oriko of all people, so my being protective of Homura on this subject ought to be quickly tied to that, to help reinforce that Sayaka's question is bigger than she thinks it is.
I have to echo others' worries here. I like the sentiment of this line but I can't help but feel this particular version of the idea treads on exactly the landmine it's intended to avoid.

I have to confess, I'm not quite sure that this part of the vote is the best idea. Sabrina can probably get away with letting Homura deflect on her own, or giving a quick "that's not my secret to tell", but making a big deal of it feels kind of like putting up a giant neon sign. That may actually be your intent here, though, going by the parentheses, but that feels like dodging the issue again. Homura wants answers / explanations, not a detour to explain her issues or power.

Also, it may cross the line from well-intentioned nudging to actively rejecting Homura's own preferences regarding information control. I'm pretty sure Sabrina has discussed with Homura about telling the others more regarding her power, and had the idea firmly rejected (3/31? pretty sure there was a second instance later). There may be room for a discussion later, on how much Sabrina should respect Homura's wishes there and how hard she should push to convince her, but I'd argue the time for that is very definitely not in the middle of another heavy conversation that's busy hammering on her trauma buttons.

A quick review of what Sayaka knows / could potentially think (with a preference for recent knowledge):
- Homura's magic involves stopping time.
- Sabrina also implied that Homura's base enchantment involves protection, which is borne out by her forcefield rock.
- A magical girl's Wish can be quite heavily tied to their powers (see: Sayaka, Sabrina, Oriko)
- Sabrina's been hammering pushing nudging Homura in Madoka's direction, in between scandalous amounts of handholding with Mami.
- Homura's really, really twitchy about Oriko and Kirika, despite the fact that Homura's not mentioning anything they actually did to her.
- Sayaka doesn't know the exact timeframe (Oriko contracted on the 28th), but there's not a lot of room on it. Homura transfers in on the 25th, and giant hat hunting happened on the 31st, immediately after her apartment got burned down. So when did the Kures have the chance to hurt Homura as badly as they did her?
- Yuki implied that Homura basically appeared out of thin air, as far as the magical girl gossip rings are concerned. Which is apparently very unusual, since magical girls in the same weight class as Mami or Sabrina tend to be notorious.
- Sabrina's made it very clear that she has detailed knowledge regarding the history of other magical girls.
- She's also implied that this includes might have beens, or things that haven't happened yet (Asunaro, I think).

This is about the time when Sherlock Holmes would make his grand reveal, in a detective story. Fortunately, Sherlock Holmes is a cheating cheater who cheats, and Sabrina probably doesn't have to worry about Sayaka putting it all together yet. (Though this brings up another ugly topic: what exactly happens when Sayaka finds a magical girl with the enhanced learning / mind powers she's looking for on one of Sabrina's befriending goodwill trips?)

Anyway, the point I'm trying to get at is that Sayaka already has a lot of the information she'd need to figure out that Homura's wish was time travel, and not just time stop. If Sayaka figures it out on her own, that's fine. It might even be healthy for Homura to have someone else in on that secret. But I feel like going and heavily implying that the answer to Sayaka's question is a big deal that's heavily tied into Homura's other problems would be breaking the trust that Homura has in Sabrina to keep her secrets.
I think it's worth adding here that, depending on your reading, Sayaka does appear to piece Homura's past together in episode 8. She doesn't say anything herself, but her eyes grow pretty wide after Homura talks about "everything being for Madoka", and one can read Homura's next words (the "You're pretty quick. Yes, you got it" just before the "I don't want to save you: I'm just doing this for Madoka") as her confirming Sayaka's unspoken epiphany after having had similar conversations with Sayaka many times before.

Actually, I can think of one more thing we could do. Homura sees people as the same across multiple timelines, but there's nothing saying that people can't have qualities she hasn't discovered before. I'm tempted to add a glance at Mami into this. Homura was completely surprised when we got Mami to tell Sayaka and Madoka to not become magical girls and I'm tempted to draw parallels between them, because their negative actions are both drawn out by their being victimized -- in Mami's case it's her loneliness, in Oriko's case it's her everything.
It may not be applicable here and now but if the whole "Echoes of other timelines" theory is in any degree correct there is a possible point here that may be useful later: People change.

Not only is the echoes thing, if true, a confirmation of everything Homura is desperately hoping is true but it also means that, from her perspective, people have some ability to learn from their failures. If Sayaka did some little things she didn't before that could have had a disproportionate impact, or Oriko just got that tiny little nudge to look, to see Kirika's future that she would then be driven to avert, then there's a tiny smidgen of hope there. That, however slight the connection, Homura isn't truly alone in looking for the exit to her maze.
 
I think going to execute is a bit too much. Sayaka is bloodthirsty but she is not a psycopath. Not to mention what it says about how we view them.
"And so she's secretly a good person?" Sayaka says, clenching her fists. "I- Sabrina, she- dammit, you know what she did."
I think this is worth some consideration. Perhaps.

[] I... No. Sayaka. My having knowledge of her does not tell me she is a good person. It tells me what she did, and sometimes why.
-[] I saw the nice girl she was before fate took a dump on her. Then decided that maybe, if her power stopped trying to get her to kill herself, she could be that person again.
-[] As opposed to the Insane serial killer magical girl who hoards souls gems. Who is a complete psychopath, and is beyond anything but the most extreme forms of "help".
-[] I am friends with you guys because that is what I decided to do. Please do not imply otherwise.

I think we need to explain to the group that our feelings for them are not because of some magical compulsion. We are not a robot.

Lastly we can simply SAY that we will back Homura up on her decision. Rather than making a clumsy leaky attempt to deflect that will likely back fire.

I just... dont like that vote at all actually. Its creepy and manipulative. It intentionally hints at something we only think homura knows... to say nothing of how it purposefully talks over Mami and Sayaka.

Why dont we use....

Things like this. We had real answers to this question where did they go? Hoping she just takes our thing on faith seems like a poor strategy.

[] Since we have limited resources and people to handle this, and imprisoning meguca is expensive and difficult, meguca justice has to be about preventing further harm, not punishment. We applied that principle in Sendai, and it worked well. Like with Sendai, we don't have to like it, but it has to work, and it has proven itself so far.

Like about how the current set up only really works as long as they cooperate.
 
Random reminder, we need to contact Tsubaki Mikoto.

Not just because she's an adultguca who could help us deal with that weird space where meguca problems and issues-that-require-one-to-be-a-legal-adult-to-deal-with intersect, but because the whole tragedy of Suzune magica is hilariously avoidable once Sabrina's powers are in play.

The whole thing is that
there's this magical woman, Tsubaki Mikoto, who IIRC works helping a widower take care of his little twin daughters, or maybe she was just helping out, I don't remember, but the point is that Tsubaki finds another girl, Suzune, out doing the magical girl thing, and because that's so dangerous, Tsubaki leaves her job so she can take care of Suzune full time instead.

Now, one of the twins is super jealous about Suzune 'taking away' Tsubaki from her, so when KB offers them wishes, she makes an evulz convoluted wish laser targeted against Suzune. Meanwhile, the other twin, who was blind, wishes she wasn't blind anymore and is happy about it.

Now, Tsubaki really really doesn't want Suzune to have her Gem do dark (I don't remember if she was bombed), so she has Suzune use far more Seeds than she uses herself (like Kazumi was doing with the Pleiades), and ends up Witching out.

Then there's drama and sadness and it's a tragedy and blah blah blah main story happens years later and you find out these things.

So if we contact her, we can tell her about our cleansing powers, how we want to help everyguca ever, ask for help, and she will probably be super on board with this. Like, super duper on board.

We get an adultguca to help,
nobody witches out, Tsubaki could still care for the Hinata sisters... part time maybe,
and it's all a big win win.
 
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Random reminder, we need to contact Tsubaki Mikoto.

Not just because she's an adultguca who could help us deal with that weird space where meguca problems and issues-that-require-one-to-be-a-legal-adult-to-deal-with intersect, but because the whole tragedy of Suzune magica is hilariously avoidable once Sabrina's powers are in play.

The whole thing is that
there's this magical woman, Tsubaki Mikoto, who IIRC works helping a widower take care of his little twin daughters, or maybe she was just helping out, I don't remember, but the point is that Tsubaki finds another girl, Suzune, out doing the magical girl thing, and because that's so dangerous, Tsubaki leaves her job so she can take care of Suzune full time instead.

Now, one of the twins is super jealous about Suzune 'taking away' Tsubaki from her, so when KB offers them wishes, she makes an evulz convoluted wish laser targeted against Suzune. Meanwhile, the other twin, who was blind, wishes she wasn't blind anymore and is happy about it.

Now, Tsubaki really really doesn't want Suzune to have her Gem do dark (I don't remember if she was bombed), so she has Suzune use far more Seeds than she uses herself (like Kazumi was doing with the Pleiades), and ends up Witching out.

Then there's drama and sadness and it's a tragedy and blah blah blah main story happens years later and you find out these things.

So if we contact her, we can tell her about our cleansing powers, how we want to help everyguca ever, ask for help, and she will probably be super on board with this. Like, super duper on board.

We get an adultgica to help,
nobody witches out, Tsubaki could still care for the Hinata sisters... part time maybe,
and it's all a big win win.

Good idea.

But what do we do if
Suzune's already been fucked over? We don't have any allied mind-gucas, and even if we did, they'd be working against a Wish-powered mind rape.

Hopefully, though, we don't have to deal with that. But still, once things get set in motion...

Well, we'll deal with it as it comes.
 
Good idea.

But what do we do if
Suzune's already been fucked over? We don't have any allied mind-gucas, and even if we did, they'd be working against a Wish-powered mind rape.

Hopefully, though, we don't have to deal with that. But still, once things get set in motion...

Well, we'll deal with it as it comes.
Word of Nadia is that Tsubaki is around, so hopefully we can nip all those problems problems in the bud.

We really should contact Tsubaki asap, though. As soon as we have a minute.

(We also need to repair Kuroki's phone with Grief so we can check it out; ask KB about Hitomi's mom's meguca friend (likely dead); call Nagisa to say hi; check the IRCs Nadia gave us; get in touch with the Tokyogucas; and a bunch of other things!)
 
Do you think we can make wormholes?

Because if we can start thinking with portals to extend our range, we can do all that at once, through the use of multitasking and clones.
 
Do you think we can make wormholes?

Because if we can start thinking with portals to extend our range, we can do all that at once, through the use of multitasking and clones.

I have a theory. A flimsy one, and not entirely related to the question, but hear me out. I've been wanting to share it for a while.

It seems that magic is the universal force conducted by the soul of a human via feelings and emotions. In ordinary humans it's manifested as their "free will", i.e. an ability to choose their actions at any point in time. Granted, we don't exercise it much, from a certain point of view, but the potential is there.

In PMMM-verse, potential of a person is related to many factors: possibly strength of their emotions and convictions ( hope for the future), maybe the amount of suffering this person experienced and, almost undoubtedly, ties with other people.

It is, as I believe, the why of Madoka having such tremendous potential. You can also interpret the whole thing through the concept of karma, but I think that in the end it amounts to the same thing expressed in different terms. At least, I hope.

Examples?

Mami lucked out (?) by choosing a fortunate formulation of the Wish and generally dying at the moment she was making it, thus covering the first two requirements and maybe the third.

Homura finds herself in a similar situation, completing the first two requirements like a boss.

Kyouko rejects her Wish, thus renouncing her conviction, thus losing a part of her powers.

Sayaka admits "She was a fool" while falling completely in despair, probably admitting her intentions weren't thought out well enough. What with wanting a boy and becoming a champion of justice, yet not succeeding in either.

Ad nauseoum.

Anyway, Kyubei race found a way to refine this power and, so to speak, unlock the potential of a girl. I don't quite understand, but teenage girls were chosen as the target demographic, because they are more energy-efficient. I've read on TvTropes once that it's allegedly because teenage boys are more egotistical and self-centered. I'll get back to it. Anyway, girls are generally more emotive, and teenage girls are basically running all the time on high hormonal levels due to pubes- moving on.

The problem is, magic wasn't meant to be used that way. Generally, a person's life is spent trying to do stuff. Doing stuff requires two things: time and effort. They can be both managed to spend less of them, but not infinitely. When a Wish is Granted, causality and the universe in general is violated, because the girl didn't spend either time or effort to accomplish her goal. So the universe lashes back against the girl, the more grandiose the Wish, the more backlash. Oh, and if it was a goal of many more people than one who made the Wish, then the backlash is proportionally increased. Boys are egotistical, thus unlikely, to Wish for grandiose stuff, so the backlash is weaker, so the energy spent during Wishing and Witching out is less efficient. Or maybe they'd look ridiculous in frilly dresses, I dunno.

Anyway. Here is the answer for your question, Shadowhisker. Finally. :V

The Wish and intention helps shape the form the girl's magic. It can be used for literally anything, but because different girls have different goals, their magic adjusts accordingly. It is thus theoretically possible to do stuff other Megucas do, but very unlikely. Basically, magic is crystallized will and not very flexible. And well, violating physics evidently has its limits.

Disclaimer: I thought this whole thing up. I might be full of it. Firn may have different ideas than I do, not even speaking about Urobuchi, and I can't read minds.

And the system is completely broken by Sabrina and Madoka. :p
As a theory, Madokami has so much potential she basically suplexed the universe into doing what she wants, both in the canon and here, Sabrina acting as her direct agent in our case.
 

I highly recommend you read Tart Magica. It has a lot of information about how potential actually functions in relation to power, and how certain wishes or actions can game that system.

As for why girls are chosen but not boys... I'm very leery of any suggestions that it's because they're "more emotional" or "less egocentric" or anything of that nature. To whatever extent those stereotypical traits are real, they should be on enough of a distribution that there would be outliers among the male population that meet them as well.

One particularly cutting suggestion for why girls are chosen I've heard (credit to @AuraTwilight ) is that for a very long time, human society has simply cared less about women and girls then about men, and thus preying on that population was in the Incubator's interests in terms of keeping the whole thing mostly under wraps.

There's been some recent movement towards equality, of course, but given that the Incubator has been around for tens of thousands of years at a minimum, a less then 100 year old trend is basically a statistical outlier at this point.
 
Hi everyone! I've been absent a while.

I highly recommend you read Tart Magica. It has a lot of information about how potential actually functions in relation to power, and how certain wishes or actions can game that system.

As for why girls are chosen but not boys... I'm very leery of any suggestions that it's because they're "more emotional" or "less egocentric" or anything of that nature. To whatever extent those stereotypical traits are real, they should be on enough of a distribution that there would be outliers among the male population that meet them as well.

One particularly cutting suggestion for why girls are chosen I've heard (credit to @AuraTwilight ) is that for a very long time, human society has simply cared less about women and girls then about men, and thus preying on that population was in the Incubator's interests in terms of keeping the whole thing mostly under wraps.

There's been some recent movement towards equality, of course, but given that the Incubator has been around for tens of thousands of years at a minimum, a less then 100 year old trend is basically a statistical outlier at this point.

Yeah as a trans man I tend to be wary of gender essentialist claims too. I share Aura's theory as to why girls are chosen. Any group that's been systematically pushed down and ignored will have things to Wish for, things that seem impossible without magical help. Girls are also often taught to be helpless, whereas boys tend to be told that they have agency and have their agency respected. (I mean on average, more than girls.)
 
[x] Answer Homura
-[x] On a personal level? Same as with everyone else; I want to help. I believe that everything can be fixed. Meguca are for saving.
--[x] I sound naive. I know. But I believe I have this information about people for a reason. To help everyone I can.
---[x] I know there are people, like the insane serial killer magical girl who hoards souls gems, who are beyond anything but the most extreme forms of "help". If I thought Oriko was like that, we wouldn't be having this discussion. But she's not. She's just as much a victim as pretty much every magical girl.
--[x] Oriko did a lot of bad things. She could have done more. We stopped her. With the information I have- I know that she can change. Into somebody who wouldn't do those things anymore. Into somebody who would do good things instead.
-[x] More practically? Imprisoning meguca is difficult and expensive. We have limited resources and people. Meguca justice must be preventative, not punitive. We applied that principle in Sendai; whether we like it or not, it's proven itself so far.
--[x] Oriko and Kirika are extremely useful assets. They've already helped save a lot of people.
---[x] Elaborate if necessary (e.g. Masami and Hiroko, Fukushima, saving Sayaka from the witch, Sendai, Asunaro, etc)

[x] Sayaka
-[x] Let Homura field that question
--[x] If Homura ignores it, do likewise.
---[x] If, and only if, Sayaka keeps pressing the issue with Homura, or asks us explicitly:
----[x] Tell her it ties into some deeply personal things, as well as some very sensitive information. Homura has good reasons to decide not to answer, and we support her decision.
---[x] Either way, drop the subject.
--[x] If Homura decides to answer, support her.

[x] Elaborate on Oriko's soul gem failure for why I've been pushing on this topic.

[x] Vote in abeyance
-[x] Specifically note that I welcome suggestions for security measures.


Still kinda long. But I have come to agree we should probably only field the Homura question if we're pulled into it, instead of drawing attention to it ourselves. Thoughts, suggestions?

Edited for spacing because what is happening
Also edited for clarity and improvement
 
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[Q] "Because everything can be fixed."
-[Q] "... Except Ms. Saotome's love life."

Homura starts. Her intense, haunted glare turns into confused blinking.

Sabrina half shrugs defesively. "What do I look like, a miracle worker?" she looks away, snuggling closer into Mami's side.

Sayaka finds herself nodding philosophically.

Somewhere out there, Kyuubey sneezes.
 
I really like mCooperative's plan, reads more optimistic? hopeful? than Godwinson's, and I think that it would actually sound more sincere comming from Sabrina. The only reason why I'm staying with Godwinson's one is because I think we really need to assure Homura that we won't let Oriko hurt Madoka, or any of our friends for that matter, or at least that we know she won't try to do something like that anymore (because we know she won't, right?)
 
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Random reminder, we need to contact Tsubaki Mikoto.

Not just because she's an adultguca who could help us deal with that weird space where meguca problems and issues-that-require-one-to-be-a-legal-adult-to-deal-with intersect, but because the whole tragedy of Suzune magica is hilariously avoidable once Sabrina's powers are in play.

The whole thing is that
there's this magical woman, Tsubaki Mikoto, who IIRC works helping a widower take care of his little twin daughters, or maybe she was just helping out, I don't remember, but the point is that Tsubaki finds another girl, Suzune, out doing the magical girl thing, and because that's so dangerous, Tsubaki leaves her job so she can take care of Suzune full time instead.

Now, one of the twins is super jealous about Suzune 'taking away' Tsubaki from her, so when KB offers them wishes, she makes an evulz convoluted wish laser targeted against Suzune. Meanwhile, the other twin, who was blind, wishes she wasn't blind anymore and is happy about it.

Now, Tsubaki really really doesn't want Suzune to have her Gem do dark (I don't remember if she was bombed), so she has Suzune use far more Seeds than she uses herself (like Kazumi was doing with the Pleiades), and ends up Witching out.

Then there's drama and sadness and it's a tragedy and blah blah blah main story happens years later and you find out these things.

So if we contact her, we can tell her about our cleansing powers, how we want to help everyguca ever, ask for help, and she will probably be super on board with this. Like, super duper on board.

We get an adultguca to help,
nobody witches out, Tsubaki could still care for the Hinata sisters... part time maybe,
and it's all a big win win.
I think it may be worth adding that both of the sisters only contract Tsubaki witches out and they hear about her disappearance on the news.

In addition, Kagari's motive is at least partially about Suzune killing Tsubaki and the specifics her wish (or rather, her conversation with Kyuubey just prior to making it) is very much based on getting revenge for that. "I want Suzune to experience the same suffering that Tsubaki did," and all that.

I can see her making a different revenge focused wish without that event, (especially of the "I want that girl to disappear" variety) but definitely not that specific one.
 
I really like mCooperative's plan, reads more optimistic? hopeful? than Godwinson's, and I think that it would actually sound more sincere comming from Sabrina. The only reason why I'm staying with Godwinson's one is because I think we really need to assure Homura that we won't let Oriko hurt Madoka, or any of our friends for that matter, or at least that we know she won't try to do something like that anymore (because we know she won't, right?)

How's about now? Better, worse? (Modifications in green.)

[x] Answer Homura
-[x] On a personal level? Same as with everyone else; I want to help. I believe that everything can be fixed. Meguca are for saving.
--[x] I sound naive. I know. But I believe I have this information about people for a reason. To help everyone I can.
---[x] I know there are people, like the insane serial killer magical girl who hoards souls gems, who are beyond anything but the most extreme forms of "help". If I thought Oriko was like that, we wouldn't be having this discussion. But she's not. She's just as much a victim as pretty much every magical girl.
--[x] Oriko did a lot of bad things. She could have done more. We stopped her. If I even suspected she was plotting anything, then I wouldn't hesitate to stop her again. I would never let her hurt you three, Hitomi, Madoka- you're all my friends, and I won't let anyone do anything to my friends if it's in my power to stop it. And I was given a lot of power.
---[x] That said, with the information I have- I know that she can change. I know she is changing. Into somebody who wouldn't do those things anymore. Into somebody who would do good things instead.
-[x] More practically? Imprisoning meguca is difficult and expensive. We have limited resources and people. Meguca justice must be preventative, not punitive. We applied that principle in Sendai; whether we like it or not, it's proven itself so far.
--[x] Oriko and Kirika are extremely useful assets. They've already helped save a lot of people.
---[x] Elaborate if necessary (e.g. Masami and Hiroko, Fukushima, saving Sayaka from the witch, Sendai, Asunaro, etc)

[x] Sayaka
-[x] Let Homura field that question
--[x] If Homura ignores it, do likewise.
---[x] If, and only if, Sayaka keeps pressing the issue with Homura, or asks us explicitly:
----[x] Tell her it ties into some deeply personal things, as well as some very sensitive information. Homura has good reasons to decide not to answer, and I support her decision.
---[x] Either way, drop the subject.
--[x] If Homura decides to answer, support her.

[x] Elaborate on Oriko's soul gem failure for why I've been pushing on this topic.

[x] Vote in abeyance
-[x] Specifically note that I welcome suggestions for security measures.
 
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Hmm. Being in a high-stakes discussion with Sayaka has nudged my thoughts in a certain direction.

Disclaimer: All of this that I'm discussing should take place in an entirely seperate conversation to the one we're in. I'm not advocating in any way for it to happen "now".

Anyway, with that out of the way... We should witchbomb Sayaka. And soon.

Sayaka is in as good a position as she's ever going to be to handle the witchbomb. She's never needed to hunt a Witch for its Seed, and has never given a Seed away to Kyuubey. She already knows that Kyuubey is a manipulative liar with ulterior motives. And she's part of a team that has both the drive and the ability to reverse witching.

Critically, she personally will be of immense utility in cracking the case. She can copy the powers of any number of magical girls whose abilites are useful, but who don't know about the witchbomb or otherwise can't be recruited to help. Additionally, just her base power provides the ability to read and copy souls - both of which are likely to be critical in dewitching, and which directly patch one of the few explicit limitations of Sabrina's powers.

Much like Kirika's wish providing antimagic was a hint Oriko doesn't need her magic, I think Sayaka's wish to be useful granting her the ability to reconstitute souls is a hint to include her in dewitching.

And it should be done soon. Sayaka doesn't like being kept out of the loop, and will take a secret this big being kept from her worse the longer we hide it. More pragmatically, the sooner we tell her, the sooner she can assist in dealing with the influx of refugees, several of whom may be witchbombed and less tight-lipped about it then we'd prefer.

Of course, all of this depends on how she takes the news... But luckily, we have a case example to work off of! In Magica Record, Sayaka gets witchbombed... and handles it extremely well, as long as she has a cause to fight for that she believes is right. It seems very likely to me that as long as we make it clear dewitching is something we are working on, she'll be able to handle it.
 
Hmm. Being in a high-stakes discussion with Sayaka has nudged my thoughts in a certain direction.

Disclaimer: All of this that I'm discussing should take place in an entirely seperate conversation to the one we're in. I'm not advocating in any way for it to happen "now".

Anyway, with that out of the way... We should witchbomb Sayaka. And soon.

Sayaka is in as good a position as she's ever going to be to handle the witchbomb. She's never needed to hunt a Witch for its Seed, and has never given a Seed away to Kyuubey. She already knows that Kyuubey is a manipulative liar with ulterior motives. And she's part of a team that has both the drive and the ability to reverse witching.

Critically, she personally will be of immense utility in cracking the case. She can copy the powers of any number of magical girls whose abilites are useful, but who don't know about the witchbomb or otherwise can't be recruited to help. Additionally, just her base power provides the ability to read and copy souls - both of which are likely to be critical in dewitching, and which directly patch one of the few explicit limitations of Sabrina's powers.

Much like Kirika's wish providing antimagic was a hint Oriko doesn't need her magic, I think Sayaka's wish to be useful granting her the ability to reconstitute souls is a hint to include her in dewitching.

And it should be done soon. Sayaka doesn't like being kept out of the loop, and will take a secret this big being kept from her worse the longer we hide it. More pragmatically, the sooner we tell her, the sooner she can assist in dealing with the influx of refugees, several of whom may be witchbombed and less tight-lipped about it then we'd prefer.

Of course, all of this depends on how she takes the news... But luckily, we have a case example to work off of! In Magica Record, Sayaka gets witchbombed... and handles it extremely well, as long as she has a cause to fight for that she believes is right. It seems very likely to me that as long as we make it clear dewitching is something we are working on, she'll be able to handle it.
Personally, my position here was and remains that we should make her the offer in the same way that Niko made the offer to the Saints, and that Sayaka being isolated by needing to keep secrets from her friends is also an important factor to work around here.

EDIT:
I'm pretty sure I've said this here before, but to take it from elsewhere:

Article:
To take a shot at the potential pitfalls of Witchbombing Sayaka and how to avoid them, my thoughts are that it'd honestly be less in the way of Mami's problem with turning evil (since Sayaka's more sympathetic to witches compared to Mami's hatred and sense of justice in fighting them) and far more her problems with secrets, specifically being isolated by having to keep secrets. 'swhy I think it's so important to tell her that she'd have to keep it a huge secret.

Like, look at her episode 4 conversation:
M: I kind of feels like we're in a different country now.
M: School, Hitomi-chan, Nothing's changed since yesterday. But it feels feels like I'm surrounded by strangers.
S: Nobody knows what we know.
S: Nobody knows about the witches or Mami-san
S: We know, and nobody else does.
S: It's like we're all living in a different world, seeing different things
S: It all changed a long time ago. We should've realized it sooner.

That's what I think needs to be defused.
Source: Myself, elsewhere
 
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Personally, my position here was and remains that we should make her the offer in the same way that Niko made the offer to the Saints, and that Sayaka being isolated by needing to keep secrets from her friends is also an important factor to work around here.

Oh yes, definitely. It should be optional. That said, at bare minimum, Sayaka needs to be aware that there's a secret, the way Kazumi is, even if she chooses not to know what it is.

Anyway:

[x] mCooperative

I like the handling of Homura's past here a lot better, and think the clarity in general of the vote is better then @Godwinson 's.
 
I'm rather intensely busy IRL this week, so I can't really put together any ideas right now. But thus far this seems so be the strongest plan.

[x] mCooperative
 
*poof*

[x] Sayaka
-[x] Let Homura field that question
--[x] If Homura ignores it, do likewise.
---[x] If, and only if, Sayaka keeps pressing the issue with Homura, or asks us explicitly:
----[x] Tell her it ties into some deeply personal things, as well as some very sensitive information. Homura has good reasons to decide not to answer, and I support her decision.
---[x] Either way, drop the subject.
--[x] If Homura decides to answer, support her.

[x] Elaborate on Oriko's soul gem failure for why I've been pushing on this topic.

[x] Vote in abeyance
-[x] Specifically note that I welcome suggestions for security measures.

Almost over my threshold. I'm still going to say that we have an easy out here, and this isn't it. Japanese culture is all about social details. There are lots of ways to avoid talking about something. Sayaka is being forward here, properly IC because she's keyed up right now. It is possible to make her stand down, and like it.

I think that calling out that she is putting Homura in a bind, and asking her to wait for a month or two for Homura to make her own statement, might be the golden motion.
 
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