Dragon Ball: After the End

Artanis Prime · Mar 3, 2018

Deathbybunnies said:
It's an undetectable spike though (beyond moving faster etc.) because it's not really increasing our PL. That's part of why it's so good.

Well yes the technique does give us more hitting power without actually spiking our PL. But if we're handicapping our self to 2.3 Mil and it turns out we need 4 Mil to matter we can just start using Refinement, then just raise out PL to 4 Mil or whatever, and lie about that extra 1.7 Million coming from the Refinement boost.

This would only really be useful for a shot at maintaining the fiction that Maya is actually stronger then us during the invasion.

Deathbybunnies · Mar 3, 2018

PoptartProdigy said:
No, it's that they doubt that a newly-transformed SSJ2 can modulate power level at all, let alone enough.

My idea was more that we'd instantly KO them as soon as they broke through, so the next time they entered the form it wouldn't be the first time with all the drawbacks. Can an SSJ2 not even modulate their base body's PL?

PoptartProdigy said:
She would, and you would not. I will find a good space to put a notice.

Excellent! Though we should probably take some explicitly social actions too.

Artanis Prime said:
Well yes the technique does give us more hitting power without actually spiking our PL. But if we're handicapping our self to 2.3 Mil and it turns out we need 4 Mil to matter we can just start using Refinement, then just raise out PL to 4 Mil or whatever, and lie about that extra 1.7 Million coming from the Refinement boost.

This would only really be useful for a shot at maintaining the fiction that Maya is actually stronger then us during the invasion.

I'm pretty sure we broke that fiction when we asked everyone on the planet to donate energy, but I understand your plan now.

Simon_Jester · Mar 3, 2018

Deathbybunnies said:
I'm pretty sure we broke that fiction when we asked everyone on the planet to donate energy, but I understand your plan now.

Why would they assume we must be stronger than Maya under normal operating conditions just because we, the heir to the ancient techniques, are able to draw on all the power of the planet, while Maya didn't or can't?

[I mean hell, if Maya did know the Spirit Bomb she'd never have the guts to ask everyone on the planet to give her the energy to use it.]

Artanis Prime · Mar 3, 2018

Deathbybunnies said:
My idea was more that we'd instantly KO them as soon as they broke through, so the next time they entered the form it wouldn't be the first time with all the drawbacks. Can an SSJ2 not even modulate their base body's PL?

How would we KO the new SSJ2? They would presumably but more powerful then us, as we are not a SSJ2. I suppose we could use just a Saiyan energy donated Spirit Saiyan form but that would assume that the act of going SSJ2 in the first place didn't immediately shatter the wards, probably destroying them, and broadcast that power to the universe, which is a BIG risk to take when dealing with Apocalypse buttons.

Deathbybunnies said:
I'm pretty sure we broke that fiction when we asked everyone on the planet to donate energy, but I understand your plan now.

Why would this break the fiction? We claimed to be using an Ancient Technique which required people to donate energy, which is true, but our own Power Level doesn't really matter. We could have had a PL of 5 and theoretically still used the Spirit Bomb to beat the Dragon, at least as far as anyone on Garenhuld knows.

Deathbybunnies · Mar 3, 2018

Simon_Jester said:
Why would they assume we must be stronger than Maya under normal operating conditions just because we, the heir to the ancient techniques, are able to draw on all the power of the planet, while Maya didn't or can't?

[I mean hell, if Maya did know the Spirit Bomb she'd never have the guts to ask everyone on the planet to give her the energy to use it.]

Probably because we were also a giant golden ragemonkey, for the misfits. For the Garenhulders, the whole point of building Maya up was to have her take the spotlight so we could fade out into a little bit less scrutiny, which has been completely blown out of the water - I expect that particular plan to undergo some rapid metamorphosis.

Artanis Prime said:
How would we KO the new SSJ2? They would presumably but more powerful then us, as we are not a SSJ2. I suppose we could use just a Saiyan energy donated Spirit Saiyan form but that would assume that the act of going SSJ2 in the first place didn't immediately shatter the wards, probably destroying them, and broadcast that power to the universe, which is a BIG risk to take when dealing with Apocalypse buttons.

As a Spirit Saiyan, yes. I didn't write it all out for the third/fourth time there (because I don't want to spam the thread every time I have an idea), but basically if we can just have the sorcerers hold up a ward that lasts for just a short while instead of having to last forever like the Hall, we could have the others break through behind that and KO them.

Artanis Prime · Mar 3, 2018

Deathbybunnies said:
if we can just have the sorcerers hold up a ward that lasts for just a short while

Ok I see your idea now, though from what Poptart has said before I gathered that the Sorcerer's simply can not hold a ward against that level of power. It took almost every Sorcerer on the planet simultaneously working together to hold one against the Golden Oozaru fight, and that was pushing the limits of possibility. They simply couldn't do the same thing with even a Newly SSJ2 Power, or that was my understanding anyway, could be wrong.

But I guess that will be a project for Jaffur and Jarion once we spring them and they start training up their magic.

Deathbybunnies · Mar 3, 2018

Artanis Prime said:
Ok I see your idea now, though from what Poptart has said before I gathered that the Sorcerer's simply can not hold a ward against that level of power. It took almost every Sorcerer on the planet simultaneously working together to hold one against the Golden Oozaru fight, and that was pushing the limits of possibility. They simply couldn't do the same thing with even a Newly SSJ2 Power, or that was my understanding anyway, could be wrong.

But I guess that will be a project for Jaffur and Jarion once we spring them and they start training up their magic.

I don't recall the sorcerers putting up any wards except for the 10-person ward hiding us while we set up the Genki Dama? The only other comparison I can make is the Hall Wards, which are too weak for "structural" reasons - I'm hoping a temporary ward being actively maintained by sorcerers instead of a permanent building will be able to go higher without just immediately crashing. Especially since we'll be able to donate Spirit Saiyan energy.

It might be impossible, but I feel it's worth bearing in mind as a possibility, if we ever solve the other problems of having SSJ2s through something like Ki Stealth.

Artanis Prime · Mar 3, 2018

Deathbybunnies said:
I don't recall the sorcerers putting up any wards except for the 10-person ward hiding us while we set up the Genki Dama?

The whole reason all the Socerer's were at the fight in the first place was to try and contain all the PL signatures within a massive ward. That's all they were there to do, 10 of em split off the Big Ward in order to shield us during the Genki Dama set up, and that's what the Dragon broke.

Poptart said as much when people were debating what to do after the first part of the Dragon fight. If we had chosen to coordinate the Sorcerer's into doing something instead of shooting for the Genki Dama then any of the Sorc's we pulled off Ward duty would have made it more likely that the Invasion Fleet or the Wider Galaxy would have been able to see something fishy going on in our nominally quite part of the Galaxy.

Speaking of that we really need to ask at some point what we think the Invasion Fleet might have seen in the couple of minutes the fight went on without the Ward up.

PoptartProdigy · Mar 4, 2018

Deathbybunnies said:
My idea was more that we'd instantly KO them as soon as they broke through, so the next time they entered the form it wouldn't be the first time with all the drawbacks. Can an SSJ2 not even modulate their base body's PL?

You don't know. If it's anything even remotely like the 1st form, hard no. Not unless there's a full-power effect for SSJ2, and even then that would take practice. Beyond that, they definitely couldn't be self-restrained in the slightest upon transforming, not unless the form is radically different. Banking on being able to forcibly subdue this person, with your entire civilization on the line, is not a great bet in the Exiles' eyes. And it might even be so different as to make those not a concern...but you don't know. Beyond that, any wards you have would pop like a soap bubble and the SSJ2 would be broadcasting to the galaxy.

There is a reason I have made this the, "start the Enemy timer," button, and a reason why three centuries of very motivated, intelligent people have not found a workable solution.

Blonddude42 · Mar 4, 2018

Huh. I thought Overdrive and Refinement were mutually exclusive. Or at least will be until we take them both to near the end of the progression chain.

Also, anyone think it'd be a reasonable idea to ask our Ancestors if we could attain Super Saiyan 2 in the Otherworld with them without alerting The Enemy? And they should also know to some degree the difficulties that come from the form (like if we'd be able to suppress our power-level outside the transformation). Seriously, now that we can start going there by choice, stick around for a reasonable amount of time, and remember things we did there we can start tapping one of the best resources we have for lots of really useful stuff.

Granted, now that we pulled off Spirit Saiyan, a lot of them aren't strictly needed for a while. Hell, I'm trying to see situations where we can't put off needing a lot of those for a long time and mostly drawing a blank. As long as we keep a significant portion of the Saiyan population on our side, enough sorcerers to cover up the charging period, and a royal to act as a ~~meatshield~~ distraction we can even deal with a mass Super Saiyan uprising.

I'm kinda worried at what Poptart will throw at us next since we don't seem to be allowed downtime anymore. Will the End Game Countdown get triggered just to keep things "interesting"? Most alternative methods we can be threatened play right into our build's strengths, although that mostly just means we wouldn't panic in handling them.

...I'm starting to see why Garenhulders* are afraid of the Unknown.

*fuck it, can't spell worth a damn anyways -- close enough.

PoptartProdigy said:
You don't know. If it's anything even remotely like the 1st form, hard no. Not unless there's a full-power effect for SSJ2, and even then that would take practice. Beyond that, they definitely couldn't be self-restrained in the slightest upon transforming, not unless the form is radically different. Banking on being able to forcibly subdue this person, with your entire civilization on the line, is not a great bet in the Exiles' eyes. And it might even be so different as to make those not a concern...but you don't know. Beyond that, any wards you have would pop like a soap bubble and the SSJ2 would be broadcasting to the galaxy.

There is a reason I have made this the, "start the Enemy timer," button, and a reason why three centuries of very motivated, intelligent people have not found a workable solution.

Poptart, I think I might have mentioned it above, but have we asked about the possibility in training SSJ2 in the Otherworld with our Ancestors? They'd know more about it than any living Saiyan. Hell, Gohan is our go to for our Ancestors, and he was the once who first reached SSJ2.

PoptartProdigy · Mar 4, 2018

Blonddude42 said:
Huh. I thought Overdrive and Refinement were mutually exclusive. Or at least will be until we take them both to near the end of the progression chain.

Also, anyone think it'd be a reasonable idea to ask our Ancestors if we could attain Super Saiyan 2 in the Otherworld with them without alerting The Enemy? And they should also know to some degree the difficulties that come from the form (like if we'd be able to suppress our power-level outside the transformation). Seriously, now that we can start going there by choice, stick around for a reasonable amount of time, and remember things we did there we can start tapping one of the best resources we have for lots of really useful stuff.

Granted, now that we pulled off Spirit Saiyan, a lot of them aren't strictly needed for a while. Hell, I'm trying to see situations where we can't put off needing a lot of those for a long time and mostly drawing a blank. As long as we keep a significant portion of the Saiyan population on our side, enough sorcerers to cover up the charging period, and a royal to act as a ~~meatshield~~ distraction we can even deal with a mass Super Saiyan uprising.

I'm kinda worried at what Poptart will throw at us next since we don't seem to be allowed downtime anymore. Will the End Game Countdown get triggered just to keep things "interesting"? Most alternative methods we can be threatened play right into our build's strengths, although that mostly just means we wouldn't panic in handling them.

...I'm starting to see why Garenhulders* are afraid of the Unknown.

*fuck it, can't spell worth a damn anyways -- close enough.

Poptart, I think I might have mentioned it above, but have we asked about the possibility in training SSJ2 in the Otherworld with our Ancestors? They'd know more about it than any living Saiyan. Hell, Gohan is our go to for our Ancestors, and he was the once who first reached SSJ2.

You have not.

Alanek · Mar 4, 2018

@PoptartProdigy , any ETA on locking the vote? You mentioned last night, but then sock puppets occurred.

Arguments have died down, but people are still arguing back and forth over it every so often. I'd just like for us to be able to move on from it; Once the vote is locked, I'm hopeful it will mostly stop.

Gore17 · Mar 4, 2018

Alanek said:
@PoptartProdigy , any ETA on locking the vote? You mentioned last night, but then sock puppets occurred.

Arguments have died down, but people are still arguing back and forth over it every so often. I'd just like for us to be able to move on from it; Once the vote is locked, I'm hopeful it will mostly stop.

They lock the vote when they intend to start writing the update.

Cadis · Mar 4, 2018

Artanis Prime said:
Hrmm guys, random thought about if/when we eventually get around to developing Kakara's unique style. Could we make a style built on Spirit Saiyan/Spirit Bomb?

By that I mean one where we would passively connect to the same flow of universal energy that we draw power from for the Spirit Bomb while using the Style? Like obviously this would be no where near the boost of actually using the Spirit Bomb for an attack or power up, and Spirit Bomb would obviously be one of the supported moves...probably Team Fighting as well due to syncing with our allies and surroundings. I am really not sure how that would work mechanically, don't really know the system. But just a random idea that popped into my head <shrug> just an Idea

Sayain sage mode seems unlikely.

Blonddude42 · Mar 4, 2018

Alanek said:
@PoptartProdigy , any ETA on locking the vote? You mentioned last night, but then sock puppets occurred.

Arguments have died down, but people are still arguing back and forth over it every so often. I'd just like for us to be able to move on from it; Once the vote is locked, I'm hopeful it will mostly stop.

ETA is roughly when the Update drops for Poptart's other quest. Could be a bit before that, could be a bit after. Most likely a bit after since Poptart will probably need to babysit that one. SV can't into civil discussion during negotiations.

Good thing we have Kakara carry us in this quest

Simon_Jester · Mar 4, 2018

Deathbybunnies said:
Probably because we were also a giant golden ragemonkey, for the misfits.

They don't know that, all they know is that Karen asked them for energy.

For the Garenhulders, the whole point of building Maya up was to have her take the spotlight so we could fade out into a little bit less scrutiny, which has been completely blown out of the water - I expect that particular plan to undergo some rapid metamorphosis.

Now that you mention it, yes. Of course, that was already kind of getting torpedoed anyway. What with "Brandon Marsden" and his daughter Karen being the public face of ki users, NOT Maya Webley (who would have just collapsed into sheer red-faced helplessness at the idea anyway.

Blonddude42 said:
Granted, now that we pulled off Spirit Saiyan, a lot of them aren't strictly needed for a while. Hell, I'm trying to see situations where we can't put off needing a lot of those for a long time and mostly drawing a blank. As long as we keep a significant portion of the Saiyan population on our side, enough sorcerers to cover up the charging period, and a royal to act as a ~~meatshield~~ distraction we can even deal with a mass Super Saiyan uprising.

1) What if we're up against an enemy who knows about Spirit Saiyan (i.e. literally anyone on Garenhuld with enough power to matter), who specifically looks for us and tries to neutralize us before we can utilize the powerup?

2) What if we want to go into space? That's a plausible upcoming story arc, you know, because we've got a lead regarding the existence of saiyans elsewhere in our galaxy. We may have even more information soon. And after the Seal is dealt with, we'll likely have access to both the Senzus' spaceship and some of the aliens' captured ships.

Artanis Prime · Mar 4, 2018

Cadis said:
Sayain sage mode seems unlikely.

Hrmm wasn't thinking of sage mode, though now that you point it out I see the comparison. But now that I've thought about it a little more I was more thinking of this as a way to make this like Tien Style+ essentially, using the concept of my Ki is everywhere and I just need more here to help work out Perfect Multi-form and the connection to our surroundings to help fuel Life energy attacks like the Kikoho, which is probably a good reason it wouldn't work, it would be Tien style only better, bad design idea.

Though I still like the concept of Kakara taking the revelation she had when using the spirit bomb and using it as the basis for whatever we end up developing her style as, but we'll see.

Cariyaga · Mar 4, 2018

Artanis Prime said:
Hrmm wasn't thinking of sage mode, though now that you point it out I see the comparison. But now that I've thought about it a little more I was more thinking of this as a way to make this like Tien Style+ essentially, using the concept of my Ki is everywhere and I just need more here to help work out Perfect Multi-form and the connection to our surroundings to help fuel Life energy attacks like the Kikoho, which is probably a good reason it wouldn't work, it would be Tien style only better, bad design idea.

Though I still like the concept of Kakara taking the revelation she had when using the spirit bomb and using it as the basis for whatever we end up developing her style as, but we'll see.

I object to the idea that a super-rare technique is incapable of making a style strictly superior to one without the super-rare technique

PoptartProdigy · Mar 4, 2018

Alanek said:
@PoptartProdigy , any ETA on locking the vote? You mentioned last night, but then sock puppets occurred.

Arguments have died down, but people are still arguing back and forth over it every so often. I'd just like for us to be able to move on from it; Once the vote is locked, I'm hopeful it will mostly stop.

Other quest is due first.

Terrabrand · Mar 4, 2018

Blonddude42 said:
...I'm starting to see why Garenhulders* are afraid of the Unknown.

*fuck it, can't spell worth a damn anyways -- close enough.

I don't think you misspelled it any?

Simon_Jester · Mar 4, 2018

Cariyaga said:
I object to the idea that a super-rare technique is incapable of making a style strictly superior to one without the super-rare technique

Other likely differences between Kakara Style and Tien Style: More of an emphasis on Team Fighting using Multiform, possibly some new specifically nonlethal techniques for containment or confinement, possible integration of ki blocking if/when we learn that.

Artanis Prime · Mar 4, 2018

Simon_Jester said:
Other likely differences between Kakara Style and Tien Style: More of an emphasis on Team Fighting using Multiform, possibly some new specifically nonlethal techniques for containment or confinement, possible integration of ki blocking if/when we learn that.

Oh your right, I forgot that we were shown the Sight could allow for Ki Blocking, hrmm that would also fit the theme of this style being all about manipulating the Ki around us, and that would be perfect for developing nonlethal take down techniques.

Well something else on the list of things we want to learn/develop that we probably don't have the action economy for

Deathbybunnies · Mar 4, 2018

PoptartProdigy said:
You don't know. If it's anything even remotely like the 1st form, hard no. Not unless there's a full-power effect for SSJ2, and even then that would take practice. Beyond that, they definitely couldn't be self-restrained in the slightest upon transforming, not unless the form is radically different. Banking on being able to forcibly subdue this person, with your entire civilization on the line, is not a great bet in the Exiles' eyes. And it might even be so different as to make those not a concern...but you don't know. Beyond that, any wards you have would pop like a soap bubble and the SSJ2 would be broadcasting to the galaxy.

There is a reason I have made this the, "start the Enemy timer," button, and a reason why three centuries of very motivated, intelligent people have not found a workable solution.

Oh, I didn't know we couldn't touch our base PL when going FPSSJ, I just thought there was a minimum amount of SSJ power you could access. My bad.

Blonddude42 · Mar 4, 2018

Lol, thought I posted this hours ago, but I guess I never hit the button

Simon_Jester said:
They don't know that, all they know is that Karen asked them for energy.

Now that you mention it, yes. Of course, that was already kind of getting torpedoed anyway. What with "Brandon Marsden" and his daughter Karen being the public face of ki users, NOT Maya Webley (who would have just collapsed into sheer red-faced helplessness at the idea anyway.

1) What if we're up against an enemy who knows about Spirit Saiyan (i.e. literally anyone on Garenhuld with enough power to matter), who specifically looks for us and tries to neutralize us before we can utilize the powerup?

2) What if we want to go into space? That's a plausible upcoming story arc, you know, because we've got a lead regarding the existence of saiyans elsewhere in our galaxy. We may have even more information soon. And after the Seal is dealt with, we'll likely have access to both the Senzus' spaceship and some of the aliens' captured ships.

Remember the conditions I gave. The first one mostly falls apart because of them.

1) For this one, it basically has to be one of the Saiyans, and it needs to be enough of them to threaten a Royal like us, with all the support we'd have like I stated. So we'd basically have to have another House Talt on our hands. It didn't turn out so well for them, did it? Say what you want about Gold Man Genocide, you can't deny he sent a powerful message that will not be forgotten. No one has the balls to do that again while he's still alive. Unless another Royal is on the Rebellion's side (or we somehow end up there), it's not a threat. And we won't have a massive uprising against us since we're a social build which counters that, and since we're Gokun we have nearly all of the Sorcerers so a mass mind control plot to kill us probably won't happen -- especially since Dandeer wouldn't do that... yet and by the time she would she'll be dealt with.

2) I'll give you that one, but that's looking for trouble. It doesn't invalidate the turtling strategy ... I apparently didn't outright mention. Nothing stops us from grinding our skills in safety for years unless we get what would basically have to be a tailor made problem for us. And it'd have to be a really tailor made one, or Poptart would have to be slowly baiting us* into it**. Both would need to be more extreme since our normal play would have us grow stronger and tend to nip a lot of the non OOC problems in the bud.

*which is not that hard to do.
**this is also arguable a tailor made problem

uju32 · Mar 4, 2018

Cariyaga said:
Presumably because the act of going SSJ2 for the first time causes an engraged state that prevents one from suppressing their ki?

The Fourth Monado said:
Imma just spoiler this then.

Okay, so SSJ2 is achieved by a Saiyan achieving a 'life-changing realization'. For example, Gohan's was 'violence is sometimes acceptable', Goku's was 'It's fine for me to stay back and let my living friends handle problems', and Vegeta's was 'Kakarot is better then me' under they system we are using.

As for the mental effects... you know drugs that remove mental inhibitions from doing things, right? Take that effect, crank it up as high as it could possibly go, add it to overwhelming anger, and boom, you have the mental state of a newly transformed SSJ2. Someone who is immensely angry and has no inhibitions for doing anything that crosses their mind to the target of their anger.

Hope that helps.

Point of order:
That apparently are multiple ways to evolve SSJ2, and only one of them explicitly comes with the mental drawbacks you mentioned.

There are four ways to achieve this transformation, a requirement for all four is that the Saiyan must first gain a large quantity of energy (usually by training), far beyond that required for the first Super Saiyan form. The first method is that the Saiyan must experience a powerful emotional upheaval, much like the Super Saiyan transformation, but to a greater extent. Because of the intense emotion required to initiate the transformation, any mastery of the Super Saiyan state and mental stability attained therein is negated, and the naturally remorseless nature of the Saiyan race is magnified, requiring them to master the personality adaptations to an even higher degree. Even Gohan with a gentle and docile personality became a hotheaded, merciless fighter after transforming, opting to torture Cell rather than kill him, despite Goku's pleas. The second method to obtaining the transformation is simply through harsh training.[8] The third method is merely through instinct from a desperate need; if the Saiyan is in a situation that needs a quick and desperate action, like saving somebody from almost getting killed, the Saiyan will instinctively and in a rapid instant, transform, quickly making them more powerful.[9] The fourth method is for the Saiyan to feel out the tingly feeling in their back. The power output emitted by this form is greatly increased as well, as it doubles the strength of the regular Super Saiyan transformation.[10][11]

Super Saiyan 2

PoptartProdigy said:
First-time SSJs cannot modulate their power level. Not even won't — can't. Even an FPSSJ (if you take a glance at your character sheet's power levels entry) can't suppress below 145 million. There's no reason to suspect that SSJ2's have better control over their ki.

For that you probably need Saiyan Beyond God, I think.

DiceOfStupidity said:
I would say, that more a less all ways to get around power the limit were probed in centuries of Exile. Ki is well explored area, after all. Sure, things were lost, but basic limitations are well known and rooted in pure biology.

Not really.
Ki is bullshit magic that keeps surprising. And that doesn't go into what has been forgotten.

Blonddude42 said:
Maybe talk to Bulma about her tech, so we can bring designs back and at least make copies of some things we've lost.

You have an invasion fleet inbound.
A fleet at a much higher level of technology than Garenhuld, and presumably with it's own industrial equipment.

Technology isn't static. Even the scout ship stuff we found had such previously unknown advancements as ki-shielding armor. You might be able to bootstrap to a somewhat more sophisticated level of technology once the invaders get here, as long as you can convince them not to wreck everything in spite; refugee fleets have to have their own facilities for setting up local production.

If nothing else, if you can get ahold of the manufacturing techniques for the armor that hides ki, you can slather it all over places where people practice, in order to help the sorcery wards hide shit better.

Simon_Jester said:
1) It isn't personal power; you don't bring it with you unless you bring the planet itself somehow. This is a problem if we ever go into space (as seems fairly plausible).

Point of order:
Universal Spirit Bomb is a thing, even if it did need the help of the Kais
Universal Spirit Bomb
Still gonna need to grind that diplomacy though.

PoptartProdigy said:
You don't know. If it's anything even remotely like the 1st form, hard no. Not unless there's a full-power effect for SSJ2, and even then that would take practice. Beyond that, they definitely couldn't be self-restrained in the slightest upon transforming, not unless the form is radically different. Banking on being able to forcibly subdue this person, with your entire civilization on the line, is not a great bet in the Exiles' eyes. And it might even be so different as to make those not a concern...but you don't know. Beyond that, any wards you have would pop like a soap bubble and the SSJ2 would be broadcasting to the galaxy.

There is an Ascended SSJ2, but I'm not sure it confers more control. More power certainly, to the point of rivalling SSJ3. And the whole anger/rage thematic that seems to go with it may well work better for Jaffur than for Kakara.

It's also possible to do an end run around much of the sequence and go straight to SSJ4; given that we have Golden Oozaru, we've met the prereqs for it.
And of course, Super Saiyan God and Saiyan Beyond God are both possible, and are also much more compatible with the diplomacy-heavy route and themes Kakara has pursued so far, while leading towards Super Saiyan Blue.

Of course, the funny thing would be that if you go SSJ4, you'd have to go back to Super Saiyan in order to
Which would lead to the hilarious picture of someone trying to evolve SSJ4 without realizing they have to go back a couple steps.
Though if you ask me, what Kakara actually needs is Ultra Instinct. Assuming that's a thing here.

Dragon Ball: After the End

Knight of the Fallen Dream

Knight of the Fallen Dream

Knight of the Fallen Dream

Knight of the Fallen Dream

Lawful Evil

Lawful Evil

Proud Capoeria Angola Quintal Capoerista

Knight of the Fallen Dream

Handsome Gentleperson

Lawful Evil

the Ordainer

Knight of the Fallen Dream