And if we're outnumbered three-to-1? Remember that there are over 300 ninja in this swamp. If 10% of them team up, they could have enough people to swamp our group of 12.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
And if we're outnumbered three-to-1? Remember that there are over 300 ninja in this swamp. If 10% of them team up, they could have enough people to swamp our group of 12.
- Location
- Yes.
Your optimism amuses me.
One. Force Wall seals are not place 4m apart. Force Wall seals generate 4 by 4 meter seals, so it stands to reason they are ~5.65m apart (the diagonal).
Two. Apart from the immediate, trapped perimeter (which we've cleared out completely) the swamp is going to be crowded (see here). I remain skeptical regarding our ability to notice and destroy hidden Force Wall seals in densely forested area, and I do not believe...
...
@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail How much force is needed to destroy a Force Wall barrier? I'm asking regarding the barrier that is formed, and not the seals that form the barrier?
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- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Good call if neji spots us being severally outnumbered can opt for escape
Edit: if our enemies our concentrating there force will be super easy to slip by
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- Location
- Yes.
Would it be cruel to have @eaglejarl write a small update in which we have Panashe, Neji, and/or high-Stealth+Alertness individuals scout the area for enemy defenses/positions, and decide whether or not to flee or attack next week?
- Location
- floating away
We could have a water clone or two running ~15 feet or so ahead of us. (That should be enough time to react, right? They are ninjas.) And Nejis's chakra sight should also let him see the force walls. Or does the byakugan not have chakra sensing in this setting anymore?
- Location
- Phoenix, AZ
Personally, I don't want this to turn into a large scale fight. Large scale fights with lots of rolls will eventually kill us through sheer numbers -- we aren't so much better than other chunnin that we can reliably beat them in combat, especially when outmatched. I also don't know how explosives translate to the new ruleset. Our advantages right now are that:
1) The enemy is likely as disorganized as we are -- unlikely to have split second reactions
2) The enemy does not know our full capabilities
3) The enemy does not know which direction we will go
4) The enemy may or may not know we have been tipped off
Of these advantages, I think 4 is the weakest, and 1-3 are the strongest. However, we don't want to reveal all our capabilities. We've already established that we're sealmasters, so that's a little out of the bag. Effectively, if we come out with banshees and fire-log macerators, at a sprint, the enemy teams need to make a split second decision on if they're going to pursue us, if it's a distraction, or if they should just let the stupid seal-masters go their own way, or at least wait until they run out of the explosives and stuff they're burning through to attack (little do they know we have literally thousands of seals). I find it unlikely that the enemy will sufficiently coordinate to attack us if we go out in this sort of a way, and so suggest "explosive loud escape" as an option. That said, explosive loud escape doesn't get us the seals of any of our enemies, though I'd also expect they stored their seals somewhere safe prior to combat and don't have them on them at the moment (unless they're overconfident).
1) The enemy is likely as disorganized as we are -- unlikely to have split second reactions
2) The enemy does not know our full capabilities
3) The enemy does not know which direction we will go
4) The enemy may or may not know we have been tipped off
Of these advantages, I think 4 is the weakest, and 1-3 are the strongest. However, we don't want to reveal all our capabilities. We've already established that we're sealmasters, so that's a little out of the bag. Effectively, if we come out with banshees and fire-log macerators, at a sprint, the enemy teams need to make a split second decision on if they're going to pursue us, if it's a distraction, or if they should just let the stupid seal-masters go their own way, or at least wait until they run out of the explosives and stuff they're burning through to attack (little do they know we have literally thousands of seals). I find it unlikely that the enemy will sufficiently coordinate to attack us if we go out in this sort of a way, and so suggest "explosive loud escape" as an option. That said, explosive loud escape doesn't get us the seals of any of our enemies, though I'd also expect they stored their seals somewhere safe prior to combat and don't have them on them at the moment (unless they're overconfident).
Just to be clear: your concern is that there's a specific relatively unknown seal which we would know to look for which might be placed somewhere in a 10 mile radius which might hit us if it's angled perfectly to hit us and our perfect vision guy doesn't see it and it happens to be on the specific escape route we choose and the enemy happens to be able to make the seal? I'm not concerned.
- Location
- Europe
If we have enough time we could make some more and give them to Team Kurenai at the end, our goal is to get a lot of Leaf teams into the next round, not Rock of all places.
- Location
- Yes.
We don't know. The original figure was in the thousands, but it got retcon'd.
- Location
- Phoenix, AZ
I assume they still cost 5 CP to activate, which means no one person is likely to have more than ~30 active ones on them, especially since they drain you of chakra you could otherwise use to fight. There is a solid chance Mist teams got inactive ones from proctors though, which they could activate right before the ceremony.
- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
Iiiiiii don't actually know. I suspect the barrier itself stands up to explosives (at least, non-Kagome amounts) if you manage to keep the seals safe.
Just FYI, this doesn't square with what I remember off the top of my head - I'm pretty sure the Force Wall tags are in the middle of two sides of the wall, which can be UP TO 4m between the tags and will extend 2m in each direction perpendicular to them, failing to form if something is in the way.
@Velorien @eaglejarl does that jive with you guys' understanding? I know I've gotten this specific piece wrong in the past.
- Location
- Potato land
I might be misunderstanding something here, but aren't burning log macerators incredibly lethal?
That seems like a stretch. Coordinating four teams is already quite difficult. The more you add (and especially if they're from different villages), in a competitive setting such as this, the more likely it is your operation collapses due to infighting. I'd be more worried about our enemies being unexpectedly competent, than them having a numbers advantage.
That seems like a stretch. Coordinating four teams is already quite difficult. The more you add (and especially if they're from different villages), in a competitive setting such as this, the more likely it is your operation collapses due to infighting. I'd be more worried about our enemies being unexpectedly competent, than them having a numbers advantage.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
I was under the impression the seals had to be 4 meters apart, facing each other.
Yes. This is why we don't aim at people, we aim at the environment. We basically light our backs on fire to prevent people from following us out.
- Location
- Phoenix, AZ
Yes, but only if you are in the fire. They should be relatively easy to dodge with ninja reflexes and substitution (they take almost a second to form the full fireball if memory serves), but are an effective area denial + fear seal. With banshee seals, enemy combatants cannot close on us. With fire-log macerators, enemies cannot attack us from range unimpeded.
- Location
- Phoenix, AZ
I don't think we should try to set the swamp on fire for this reason.
Mmm, yeah. Might as well. Probably won't kill any ninja, but might distract them, and forest fires are something of a specialty of ours.
- Location
- Yes.
I do not like the idea of forest fires.
Back during the Hot Springs debacle we barely survived our forest fire by...100 points? We were approximately Chunin-level by those standards, too...and I don't like the idea of risking death or permanent maiming to cover our escape.
I fully understand the reasoning behind the choice, I just...feel the risk is being underestimated.
Back during the Hot Springs debacle we barely survived our forest fire by...100 points? We were approximately Chunin-level by those standards, too...and I don't like the idea of risking death or permanent maiming to cover our escape.
I fully understand the reasoning behind the choice, I just...feel the risk is being underestimated.
Really all the plans are going to boil down to:
1. Run for it.
2. Fight if need be.
1. Run for it.
2. Fight if need be.
- Location
- floating away
Assumptions for wild speculation:
It takes ~10 chakra to light a night light
There are ~300 ninja in the exam
They each have ~150 chakra on average
They are willing to spend ~ a third of their chakra on seals
Half of the seals are lit after the first 24 hours (Not that confident about this one.)
And seals, at the end, are distributed according to the 80-20 rule.
That leaves a pool of (300 ninja * 5 seals created per ninja )/(2 days of seal making, the first of which go out) 750 lit night light seals.
That means, the average member of the top 20% has approximately (750 seals * .8) / (300 ninja * .2) = 10 seals a piece, or 30 per team.
Now, what about the top 20% of those top 60 ninja? The top 4%? They have 80% of those (750 *.8) 600 seals. (600 seals * .8) / (60 ninja * .2) = 40 seals per ninja, or 120 per team.
With our 99 per team, that puts us somewhere above the 90th percentile but below the 96th. Not too shabby. Maybe somebody with actual maths education could do something more accurate, though.
Edit: if they only cost 5 cp to activate... Ouch.
(1500 seals * .8) / (300 ninja * .2) = 20 seals a piece, or 60 per team above the 80th percentile.
(1500 seals *.8) = 1200 seals.
(1200 seals * .8) / (60 ninja * .2) = 80 seals per ninja above the 96th percentile, or 240 per team. ... That'd be a lot.
It takes ~10 chakra to light a night light
There are ~300 ninja in the exam
They each have ~150 chakra on average
They are willing to spend ~ a third of their chakra on seals
Half of the seals are lit after the first 24 hours (Not that confident about this one.)
And seals, at the end, are distributed according to the 80-20 rule.
That leaves a pool of (300 ninja * 5 seals created per ninja )/(2 days of seal making, the first of which go out) 750 lit night light seals.
That means, the average member of the top 20% has approximately (750 seals * .8) / (300 ninja * .2) = 10 seals a piece, or 30 per team.
Now, what about the top 20% of those top 60 ninja? The top 4%? They have 80% of those (750 *.8) 600 seals. (600 seals * .8) / (60 ninja * .2) = 40 seals per ninja, or 120 per team.
With our 99 per team, that puts us somewhere above the 90th percentile but below the 96th. Not too shabby. Maybe somebody with actual maths education could do something more accurate, though.
Edit: if they only cost 5 cp to activate... Ouch.
(1500 seals * .8) / (300 ninja * .2) = 20 seals a piece, or 60 per team above the 80th percentile.
(1500 seals *.8) = 1200 seals.
(1200 seals * .8) / (60 ninja * .2) = 80 seals per ninja above the 96th percentile, or 240 per team. ... That'd be a lot.
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- Location
- Canada
@Briefvoice True, but the questions of:
1) When do we run?
2) What path do we take?
3) How much should we try to rob other teams on the way out?
Are key.
1) When do we run?
2) What path do we take?
3) How much should we try to rob other teams on the way out?
Are key.
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[x] Action plan: blow this popsicle stand
- Spend 2 more hours making party trick seals
- Have Neji scout with Panache to find out how the ambush is laid out
- Summon 2 large pangolins
- ride them out of the swamp
- throw fire log macerators and banshees to keep enemies away
- Location
- Yes.
Alright, here's a plan that:
- Avoids fighting if at all possible.
- Limits possible fighting from spilling over into "neutral" teams (i.e., teams that are nearby but aren't gunning for us specifically).
- Maximizes Party Trick seal production.
- General:
- BE AWARE OF OPSEC. DO NOT DISCLOSE CLAN SECRETS UNLESS APPROVED BY NOBURI/KEIKO.
- THIS MEANS THE COMMUNICATIONS PANGOLIN TOO. MAKE SURE WE'RE ALLOWED TO TALK ABOUT IT.
- Discuss everything with Team Goketsu, then with the group as a whole.
- Make sure everyone is in agreement. Fix errors in plan.
- BE AWARE OF OPSEC. DO NOT DISCLOSE CLAN SECRETS UNLESS APPROVED BY NOBURI/KEIKO.
- Preparations:
- Hazou continues to make Party Trick seals for personal use/trade.
- Teams collectively decide now who gets how many Party Trick seals (also make sure everyone knows how to use them, I'm not sure it was explained).
- Every individual gets 33 seals.
- New seals made:
- Gets added to the 9 remaining seals, and distributed evenly among the 12 people here.
- Any remaining seals:
- Divide them evenly among the 4 teams, and let individual teams decide who gets the extra seal(s).
- If any seals remain after that (e.g., we have 3 seals remaining), have the team leaders draw straws or something similar.
- Keiko summons Panashe, who goes underground to scout the Ring of Death. As possible Neji and other high-Awareness individuals with underground sensing go with her (e.g., as Panashe uses her version of Tunnel Excavation).
- Location/clustering of enemies (Where are enemy teams densely packed? Where are they really spread out? Are some teams allied based on how close they are?).
- Alertness level (Are they able to spot Panashe/her squad?).
- Security/traps (Are they using non-standard seals, like Force Walls? Do they have traps set up? How well-hidden are they? How much would they slow us down given our plan?).
- Combat styles (Do they have characteristic signs of Taijutsu/Weapons? Do they appear to be ninjutsu users?).
- Other (Chakra levels? Have they taken any Consequences/injuries?).
- Prepare to scuttle our traps and seals. Take the ones we can afford to do stealthily (e.g., 5SBs in the base) but plant timed explosives around the perimeter (from underground, if possible) with the intention that they will detonate after we've left.
- This includes the tunnel we make.
- Hazou (or Panashe/other allies, if they have an more efficient technique) uses Doton: Tunneling Excavation to make a tunnel to escape.
- Make the tunnel before we escape to give added chakra regeneration.
- Direction of our escape is determined from the results of our scouting. We want to go through the path of least resistance, and then move towards the rendezvous point once we've escaped the Ring of Death.
- Try to reinforce the underground tunnels with wood beams + 5SB, quietly.
- If possible apply Silence Mines and other Stealth/Athletics-boosting stuff to the tunnel, with the intention of using them to support our escape.
- Everyone prepares relevant seals and (as appropriate) jutsu before we leave.
- We distribute and prepare Banshee Slayers, training explosives, and any other possibly useful seals among the teams.
- The Escape:
- Ultimate goal of escape is to evade threats and arrive at the rendezvous point.
- After 1.5-2.5 hours (exact time determined during discussion) we make our escape through the escape tunnel we made.
- Time of our escape is determined by how long we're expected to take to get to the rendezvous point, plus ~30 minutes. We want to arrive just after 4:45PM.
- Neji/high-Awareness individuals should focus on checking enemies/traps.
- Depending on the situation we may want to surface (e.g., the tunnel is collapsing, team veto). If so:
- We are running at 100% our normal (not chakra boost) speed and using chakra as appropriate to boost Athletics.
- If/when we are chased engage only if necessary. Leave behind timed training explosives as shitty traps to slow them down.
- We use explosive seals to clear the path in front of us. Neji/high-Awareness individuals should direct specifics (training explosives or stronger explosives), as relevant.
- As appropriate Keiko may summon Pangolins (e.g., Panchipaama) to help us (carry us?).
- Discuss if we should have other Pangolins with us (e.g., Panashe) for extra help. It is the final push.
- Note: Make sure Keiko/Noburi are in agreement with discussing this.
- Contingency: Combat time!
- This only matters if we're in a position where we have to fight, and not, say...run while throwing Banshees/training explosives behind us.
- Our goal is to KO immediate threats and GTFO as soon as we can possibly can. Basically turn "combat" into "running away".
- And if possible, keep pushing towards the exit point. No reason to stop moving towards our goal if we can't help it.
- Overall leader should direct the overall combat plan (e.g., who fights who). Teams focus on carrying out said plan.
- This person should have been chosen in the last plan, but if not we decide one here, and quickly.
- People who need little prep to fight (e.g., Hazou, Neji...) should engage and buy time for people who need actual prep time (e.g., Keiko using Summoning).
- We take advantage of our seal loadouts. This means:
- Banshee Slayers + Banshee combos.
- Training explosives.
- Pangolin pepper macerators.
- Goo bombs (only if we absolutely have to).
- Added @Briefvoice's suggestions.
- Added @Cariyaga's suggestions.
- Added @Sentient_Tree's and @Cariyaga's suggestions.
- Even more of @Cariyaga's suggestions.
- Expanded combat section.
- Added @Inferno Vulpix's and @Roomba's suggestions.
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