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How likely is it that working with Heidi in this capacity will cause friction with our College?

I'm not suggesting it's a trick option or she's trying to deceive us intentionally, just that the other LMs and Algard might have opinions on the matter...?
I think it is more likely to cause issues between the Colleges and the Court, than between us and the Colleges. They would probably understand that we are taking a sensible career choice and not hold it against us. However, we might see a reduction on what we can expect from the college and almost certainly not become Patriarch: not becuase they dislike us, but because they want their affairs separate to that of court.
 
Don't have time to fully catch up, but I will say that I'm very much for Loremaster At Large, to the surprise of nobody.

I'll also say I'm actually more against bodyguard now that it's been made clear that it's primarily about playing imperial politics. Playing politics for an end I'm not even interested in, at that- Roswita for Empress sounds pretty great, not gonna lie.
 
If i hand to pick the most urgent 'oh shit, fires need putting out' jobs

[ ] Markgraf of Eastern Stirland
[ ] Count of Sylvania
[ ] Spymaster of Wissenland

If I'm just picking the one that have get me interested:

[ ] Markgraf of Eastern Stirland
[ ] Count of Sylvania
[ ] Border Princess of the Howling River


so tentatively:
[ ] Markgraf of Eastern Stirland


Approval voting unless they get in the way.
[ ] Count of Sylvania
[ ] Border Princess of the Howling River


I just dont want to pick any more of the 'more of the same' options I'm full up on dwarf-quest, I might be interested again in the future, but right now I want something new.

and while Waystone is important, I just don't really want to me research focused as the job.
 
I'm happy to see people are showing a little more interest in rent-a-loremaster because it seems quite fun. I'm still kind of interested in Swamp Town, but the only way I'd seriously consider it is if we burned our boons on a ship that would make Ulthuan weep. I'm a bit more intrigued by the possibility of poking around Sylvania, though I'd prefer to stay in the Karaz Ankor still. Heidi's jobs I want to keep well away from, and while playing exterminator isn't my favorite choice, it has an obvious finish line that can be worked towards, which I like.

Waystones remain my compromise choice, and I would rather pass on visiting Nagarythe at the moment, coming straight off from Karag Dum.

On the matter of Karak Vlag, we have an opportunity to get our foot in the door here while they're still acclimating. There's a whole generation of dwarfs in that mountain who've lived their whole lives inside the warp, and selfless motivations aside, this is a golden opportunity to influence their views on wizards and humans in general during a critical moment. If we want to get particularly politically cutthroat, this is also an opportunity to win Belegar a staunch ally who might otherwise settle into the High King's camp - and I think this is one of those opportunities that isn't going to keep if we put it off.

Also, I'm glad I stayed up for the update, it was worth the wait!
 
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Big downside of Bodyguard option I am seeing is that it, pretty much explicitly, lists "may breach Oaths of College on order of Emperor".
Oaths most likely to be breached in this context are, most likely, "do not mess with imperial politics".

While I do not precisely expecting it to result in us Mindholing Elector-Counts until we find correct arguments to make them vote for the right candidate, it's still going to be a pretty dirty business. Legal, sure, but it'll probably make a certain kind of reputation.
So, nah, option to be Child Emperor's Electoral Black Ops arm is not really appealing.


Belegar's Loremaster-at-Large is extremely appealing, the only downside I can see is that K8P really needs a proper Dawi Loremaster for traditional Loremaster duties at this point. If Belegar splits those two roles of Loremaster-of-KaK and traditional Loremaster, it's pretty ideal.
Other great option is, naturally, Waystone Project. It's long-term, it involves talking to a bunch of new and interesting people, and it is going to be impactful if we succeed.
Last, at least for me, is Sylvania and Border Princedom. Those would be rather traditional CK-quests, but both seem to be rather fascinating in what they'd have us do, if for quite different reasons. But I still think that it's not quite ideal fit for Mathilde. Still, it's an option.
 
Yeah, that's a good point. I was focused on the job offers but it's still a big relief to see Belegar come to the conclusion of "I'm still mad about this but there's more going on here than I currently understand."

If Mathilde takes the Loremaster at Large job, I wouldn't be surprised if Belegar eventually is named heir to the high king and gets to learn the details.
Possibly with waystones also. As long as Thorgrim and Belegar resolve their differences I think it is very likely for Belegar to take the throne. Thorgrim got it becuase he found the Norse dwarves if I remember correctly. Belegar, despite being a radical, has successfully reclaimed one of the most prestigious lost Karaks.
Belegar is a great boss, but for those hoping he becomes High King, keep in mind that the realities of the Dwarven Inheritance does not favor that possibility as much as you might think:
As highlighted by the Slayer Kings, the burden of Kingship can only be passed on through death. If Belegar became High King he would rule both KaK and K8P, but he'd be expected to name separate heirs to the two thrones.
Belegar becoming High King means ruling over two Holds at the same time, unprecedented and radical by Dwarven standards, making it unlikely to occur without extreme circumstances. It would also give him even more stress as he will have further divided loyalties, trying to split his attention equally between KaK & K8P otherwise his rulership might be called into question as biased.
 
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Wow, Loremaster-at-Large has really shot up my list. Meanwhile, I'm now less interested in Swamp Town. I think it's cool, but I think Mathilde is the wrong character and this is the wrong quest for it. A shame, but eh, what can you do?

If I had to rank them...
1) Spymaster of Wissenland. Skaven, Dwarven secrets, Elspeth, time/space for personal research, and the count seems like a fun guy. What more do people want? I think this is a natural progression of Mathlide's character, and Nuln is on the boarder of Stirland (I think Anton lives just down the road) and not massively far away from K8P as well.
2) Markgraff. Let's finish Abelhelm 's work, get Sylvania pacified and turn it from the vampire worshipping Land of Death to the Ranald worshipping Land of Shadows. Also, it's hilarious how Roswita could be the next Empress if Luitpold dies too soon.
3) Loremaster-at-Large. "Zhufbar has a nest of Fire Dragons in one of their upper halls that has resisted every conventional attempt to evict them. Karak Norn always has strange and mystical troubles of one sort or another. Barak Varr has some sort of plan for Sartosa..." Do I need to say more, and we get to spend more time with both best boss and our friends. Mathilde's got a pretty cool found family thing going on, and I like it.
4) Border Princess. Like Markgraff, but with less vampires and more greenskins. Also get to call ourselves a princess, and create a wizard friendly state outside the empire—for good or for ill.
5) High Priestess. I'm sad this didn't get an interview, but I think it'll be quite fun—possibly similar to the loremaster job, only working for Ranald.
 
This isn't an engineering project though, it's a research project. Nobody understands Waystones. That's the point. Mathilde would be learning with everyone else, and putting what small pieces of knowledge the Dwarves and Eonir still retain together into a larger picture.
I'd rather even label it as a mostly diplomatic project, making Asrai, High Elves, Dwarfs, human Order wizards and most likely human non-order older magical traditions all work together and share information they didn't want to share for millenia.
 
It, as usual, comes down to this.
A system must be able to sustain itself, or it doesn't.
Tax bidding must have had a level of sustainability to it, you can't just rob people blind once a year and expect them to allow it, and most people don't have that much anyway so if you take that much from them they'll become bandits or try to murder you and/or your thugs.

Were the taxes higher than they should be? Possibly.
Were there abuses in the system? Inevitably.
Should it have been reformed? Surely.
Was the system unjust? Absolutely.
Did it function? Reasonably.

Well...it *didn't* always work. The Romans *did* rob the provinces blind, and people often weren't okay with it — smaller-scale rebellions and resistance movements were not uncommon. Late Republican Rome was very broken. The best political assignment for a greedy politician was to one of the provinces, where he often had the latitude to just treat the whole place like a cash piñata.


How much power DID the tax collectors have to collect with anyway?
I got the impression they were limited mainly by:
-Not a lot of people having the liquidity to pay taxes with, can't make a dude pay silver he doesn't have, and if you take it in goods you have to figure out how to sell it.

-Their having thugs, not soldiers, beating the shit out of people for money works until people feel cornered enough to grab what they have and try their luck beating you back. The state does not give a crap, the tax bidding meant they already got the money, if the publicani fails because their bid was overambitious, its their problem.

-They still had to follow the laws on things like no murdering dudes(that matter).

The publicani were the state. As part of the class of knights, they had they own courts, their own laws, and their own representation. Many Senators were investors in publicani companies, and the publicani served as the main contractors for supplying the armies, constructing and repairing buildings, and dealing with any taxes/tariffs dealt on trade. Publicani often competed with the governors of the provinces they were assigned to, and had wide remit to do whatever was necessary to get their tax. If you had an issue with a Publican, you had to take it up with him in a court run by other knights, judged by other knights, and prosecuted by other knights. With this much political and financial power, these tax collectors were less simple companies and rather an entire ecosystem which the late Republic and early empire depended upon. There was no clear delineation between the publicani and the Roman state, and it was often tough to tell where one began and the other started.
 
Last, at least for me, is Sylvania and Border Princedom. Those would be rather traditional CK-quests, but both seem to be rather fascinating in what they'd have us do, if for quite different reasons. But I still think that it's not quite ideal fit for Mathilde. Still, it's an option.
Boeny has said again, again, that they will not turn the quest into a Traditional CK-Quest

the 'Tasks' options will become 'ruling options'

that's it.
 
Research Sabatical would probably include stuff like developing our version of the hounds... which, could possibly result in us producing snek boxes to pass around. Or developing her own versions of Hammerspace, or Pocket dimensions ala the College. Or developing means of integrating Ulgu into her body.

None of these are small or easy to knock out over a few months.

I mean the issue is that BoneyM doesn't want to relitigate this vote in a month or twos time. Which means the sabbatical would have to last 6+ turn updates. Whilst Id be happy to have three years of in game research dedicated to to blowing through our backlog and some current ideas I doubt the rest of the thread participants would be so happy and frankly I think it would bore our GM as well. When I was talking about a research sabbatical I thought it would be short term something like six months to a year. Not a long term choice.

Something that could be on par with the Elfcation.
 
Big downside of Bodyguard option I am seeing is that it, pretty much explicitly, lists "may breach Oaths of College on order of Emperor".
Oaths most likely to be breached in this context are, most likely, "do not mess with imperial politics".

While I do not precisely expecting it to result in us Mindholing Elector-Counts until we find correct arguments to make them vote for the right candidate, it's still going to be a pretty dirty business. Legal, sure, but it'll probably make a certain kind of reputation.
So, nah, option to be Child Emperor's Electoral Black Ops arm is not really appealing.
I would not say that if we gain some personal favor with the Elector Counts and the other people we might actually get the Colleges as an institution a place in selecting the emperor and other imperial duties. This will help in the independence of the Colleges and allow them to never again lose their place in Imperial society after the loss of legality thanks to that horrible time. This might be our excuse in ensuring that the Laws and Ideals of Sigmar's empire would benefit our primary loyalty and this is not politics but ensuring the stability of the Imperial House in the name of the Colleges.
 
So many juicy things in this chapter to react to, so I'll pick the finest here.
"And yet Borek ran around the Karaz Ankor for eighteen decades and never got more than accommodation and half an ear from Thorgrim." Belegar frowns as he processes that. "So either Karag Dum benefited or was complicit in some way..."

"Or there's more to it than Karaz-a-Karak benefitting at the expense of the other Dwarfholds," you finish.

Belegar scowls as he processes that. "I'll have to give this matter more thought," he finally concedes.
Belegar proves once more that he's the best Dwarf that has ever Dwarfed. When he walks into the Glittering Realm, the Dawi are going to be standing on parade to welcome him in.
"I'm sure Karak Vlag could use assistence in making sense of the world they've returned to." He thinks for a moment more. "Zhufbar has a nest of Fire Dragons in one of their upper halls that has resisted every conventional attempt to evict them. Karak Norn always has strange and mystical troubles of one sort or another. Barak Varr has some sort of plan for Sartosa, which was an outpost of theirs long ago, but in modern times has proven able to resist any conventional assault - and there's also talk about something in the Border Princes to stamp out the pirate problems, you might be able to help with whatever that turns out to be. Karaz-a-Karak might be meaning to take a poke at Mount Silverspear - when I met with the Grey Mountains Clans they let slip that they're apparently also in talks with Karaz-a-Karak. If that's the case, they'd probably need something novel to avoid it going the same way as the Silver Road Wars. The current Emperor is asking for Dwarven assistance in securing under-Ubersreik... and undoubtedly there's plenty more that I'd hear word of once the Karaz Ankor realizes that you'd be available to help out."
Good Lord that's a lot of interesting stuff... Fire dragons? Dragon diplomacy is Fun™ but so much other cool things as well.
"That's a lot of latitude," you note.

"Sylvania's not going to be brought to heel by someone shackled by micromanagement. You'd have full power to do whatever it takes to make sure that when one of the von Carsteins wakes back up, Sylvania doesn't immediately revert to their control."
Ah, Rosie has learned that it's best to just throw us at the problem and then step aside.
"He has been insufferable," is the first thing she says to you. "You're a bad influence on him. He never fought other Gods until you entered the picture."
And we're officially a bad influence on Ranald. Our heroic tendencies are rubbing off on Him. I'm not certain whether to be concerned or not.
 
"Politics, my dear. I went and looked up those Articles of yours, and as long as I get my darling Luitpold to make it an order, you wouldn't be restricted by the Grey Order's rules. He comes second, they come fourth."
As long as you don't run afoul of the first point: the ideals of Sigmar's empire and many will argue that we'd be breaking them at the slightest excuse.
 
@BoneyM

Actually instead of guessing, what's the minimum time frame you'll accept for us taking a research sabbatical? Are we looking at something akin to two years or is more likely 5+?

Can I infer from your earlier response to my comment about Ulgu tongs and AV you don't feel there's multiple years worth of research left to be done with them?
 
@BoneyM

Actually instead of guessing, what's the minimum time frame you'll accept for us taking a research sabbatical? Are we looking at something akin to two years or is more likely 5+?

If you're going into it trying to scope out the earliest possible exit, it's not the option you want.

Can I infer from your earlier response to my comment about Ulgu tongs and AV you don't feel there's multiple years worth of research left to be done with them?

Don't do this.
 
As long as you don't run afoul of the first point: the ideals of Sigmar's empire and many will argue that we'd be breaking them at the slightest excuse.
Actually, most might get interested in this because being able to influence the Imperial House has long been the dream of the Colleges and if the next emperor becomes the product of the Colleges' upbringing then we will be upstaging the Golds then because they've got Karl Franz so the Greys should have Mandred with Ranald's blessing all over him how is he not going the perfect material for our college's expertise and beliefs.
 
If you're going into it trying to scope out the earliest possible exit, it's not the option you want.

I'm going into with a clearly defined criteria for what success looks like and then to be able to move on, choosing research sabbatical doesn't mean I want to do it forever. I don't see the problem with that or wanting to understand the scope of what's permissable, especially as research sabbatical is much more driven by the players than the other options which have objectives that are defined by outside contexts rather than our own desires, so I feel like there's some miscommunication happening here because it looks like you're seeing me ask these questions as gaming the system.. and you know what never mind.

I'll just vote when the time comes and shut up.
 
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"Or there's more to it than Karaz-a-Karak benefitting at the expense of the other Dwarfholds," you finish.

Belegar scowls as he processes that. "I'll have to give this matter more thought," he finally concedes.
Disaster averted, for now at least.

"I'm sure Karak Vlag could use assistence in making sense of the world they've returned to." He thinks for a moment more. "Zhufbar has a nest of Fire Dragons in one of their upper halls that has resisted every conventional attempt to evict them. Karak Norn always has strange and mystical troubles of one sort or another. Barak Varr has some sort of plan for Sartosa, which was an outpost of theirs long ago, but in modern times has proven able to resist any conventional assault - and there's also talk about something in the Border Princes to stamp out the pirate problems, you might be able to help with whatever that turns out to be. Karaz-a-Karak might be meaning to take a poke at Mount Silverspear - when I met with the Grey Mountains Clans they let slip that they're apparently also in talks with Karaz-a-Karak. If that's the case, they'd probably need something novel to avoid it going the same way as the Silver Road Wars. The current Emperor is asking for Dwarven assistance in securing under-Ubersreik... and undoubtedly there's plenty more that I'd hear word of once the Karaz Ankor realizes that you'd be available to help out."
That is incredibly tempting.

"Settling the matter of Sylvania is why I took the title of Grand Countess, but the oath I swore when I became it was to Stirland, not Sylvania, and I'm neglecting that oath with every season spent here.
She has come a long way. Might be something to do with being the longest lived Stirland EC in living memory. She actually thinks she has time to think long term.

Interesting that she is differentiating Stirland and Sylvania. As I recall she tried to rebrand the place 'eastern Stirland'.

"Despite my misgivings when we first met, you've proven beyond any reasonable doubt that you're worthy of absolute trust.
That is actually somewhat disturbing. I was given to understand Mathilde's dismissal was due to the possibility of her exploding, not a matter of being unreliable.

She runs a hand over her face. "If I'd given it to you earlier, I'd already be done here. I like to think that I don't make the same mistakes twice."
Ha! Yeah that makes sense. She has watched Mathilde conjure miracle after miracle on behalf of Belegar. Seen what a few months of her attention did for the war against the vampires. Now she is thinking about how things could have gone with her working full time.

"Politics, my dear. I went and looked up those Articles of yours, and as long as I get my darling Luitpold to make it an order, you wouldn't be restricted by the Grey Order's rules. He comes second, they come fourth."

You mentally review Article 1 and nod. 'Laws and ideals of their Order' comes after 'he who is rightfully elected Emperor of Sigmar's Holy Empire'. "What did you have in mind, specifically?"
This very much seems like the sort of 'loophole' that the Grey College would string a noose around. Wouldn't prompt immediate trouble but it will have very scary people looking at us very closely for any sign of indiscretion.

"Nothing drastic. Just the right conversations with the right people, and maybe the right favours to secure the right allies. Everyone has outstanding bugbears that need slaying, they always do. Middenland and Nordland have each other, Wissenland has the rats, Stirland has Sylvania, Ostermark has Mordheim, you get the picture.
That… actually doesn't seem too bad. Mathilde is at best an amateur at actual political shenanigans. However for problem solving in the area of smiting unusual enemies she is amongst the best. Being the Empire's bugbear slayer has some attraction.

We'd also be able to offer you a crewed Wolfship
I think this is the first time someone in-universe has tried to appeal to the Boat Faction.
 
Research sabbatical would be very cool in order to poke Dum Mystery, actually.

If we consider, uh
- Dum
- tongs
- divine whatever
- other AV uses
- those trinkets we bought in Uzkulak

That's easily years of work right there at least. So that's not a bad choice if we want to clean up the backlog.
Especially seeing as if we pick up other jobs immediately we likely will not have all that much time we could afford to invest into all this stuff.
 
If Waystones could be figured out as a side gig, it would already have been done by someone else. The only way to make real progress is to pool information from disparate sources, and those sources aren't going to play ball if Mathilde is just doing it as a hobby.
Obviously not - but I meant do our own research into the basics on our own as a side gig so that when we do take it up as our main focus, we don't have to have someone explain the absolute basics to us since we already know it.
 
Initial reactions before I read discussion:
with the current incarnation Cor-Dum
I think this is missing an "of" between incarnation and Cor-Dum
Cor-Dum really is there and so are a number of Beastmen, though he appeared to have his aura of mutation suppressed until it was unleashed while he was being attacked by some Kurgan.
Earlier in this section, you referred to Cor-Dum as "it"; here you use "he."
An entirely new form twisting of who we are could have been devastating.
This sentence feels very slightly wrong. Maybe it should be either "An entirely new form twisting who we are" or "An entirely new form of twisting of who we are"?
"Would Karag Dum have been willing to resort to blackmail?"

"They resorted to Cor-Dum as a bodyguard. I think very much they would have preferred blackmail, if it was an option."

"And yet Borek ran around the Karaz Ankor for eighteen decades and never got more than accommodation and half an ear from Thorgrim." Belegar frowns as he processes that. "So either Karag Dum benefited or was complicit in some way..."

"Or there's more to it than Karaz-a-Karak benefitting at the expense of the other Dwarfholds," you finish.

Belegar scowls as he processes that. "I'll have to give this matter more thought," he finally concedes.
Hunh. Well, I was wrong, and the people who proposed that logical argument as something Belegar would find convincing were right. We made the right call on that last vote.
He sighs. "Did you pull some other bizarre miracle on your way back?"
:rofl2:
"I'm sure Karak Vlag could use assistence in making sense of the world they've returned to." He thinks for a moment more. "Zhufbar has a nest of Fire Dragons in one of their upper halls that has resisted every conventional attempt to evict them. Karak Norn always has strange and mystical troubles of one sort or another. Barak Varr has some sort of plan for Sartosa, which was an outpost of theirs long ago, but in modern times has proven able to resist any conventional assault - and there's also talk about something in the Border Princes to stamp out the pirate problems, you might be able to help with whatever that turns out to be. Karaz-a-Karak might be meaning to take a poke at Mount Silverspear - when I met with the Grey Mountains Clans they let slip that they're apparently also in talks with Karaz-a-Karak. If that's the case, they'd probably need something novel to avoid it going the same way as the Silver Road Wars. The current Emperor is asking for Dwarven assistance in securing under-Ubersreik... and undoubtedly there's plenty more that I'd hear word of once the Karaz Ankor realizes that you'd be available to help out."
...hunh. The Loremaster-at-Large position definitely feels like a "hang out in K8P and then go on random adventures" job from this. I'm kind of super in favor of it now, since we can do research in our off-hours while at home in K8P and still satisfy the folks who want ADVENTURE.
"Plenty of chaos, but I wouldn't call the trip a waste."
:rofl2: :rofl2: :rofl2:
"So I hear. Do you really have the soul of a Dwarf?"
And she just rolls with the wordplay. I love Roswita.
the Dwarves get shitty with us if we try to do anything with it
Is this meant to be "shitty" or "shirty"? I expected the latter, but the former works too, I suppose.

Anyway, time to read discussion.
 
Belabro showing us why he's the fucking best, woohoo! We didn't just blow a bomb early, we reduced tensions outright!

And him noticing our overwork is just touching. <3

She frowns. "Siblings? I mean, husband would make sense, because I assume she had to have one once. But I didn't really see her as the sibling type."
I straight laughed at this. I'd say you don't choose your family, but Roswita probably has a couple times by now, hah.
 
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I'm going into with a clearly defined criteria for what success looks like and then to be able to move on, choose research sabbatical doesn't mean I want to do it forever. I don't see the problem with that but then I feel like there's miscommunication happening.

You said there's two turns total worth of things you want to research. My response was that the research sabbatical is not for that purpose, it is for prolonged dedicated research. That is the answer to your original stance and it's not going to change. If you're now saying you're totally into prolonged dedicated research, but just for informational purposes you'd like to know the absolute minimum amount of time that the sabbatical can take, I don't think it's unreasonable of me to doubt your sudden change of opinion.

Is this meant to be "shitty" or "shirty"? I expected the latter, but the former works too, I suppose.

Shitty. He's not the most refined person. Also I suspect that usage of the word might be an Australianism.

Edit: Yep. I'll figure out a rewording.

(Britain, Australia, New Zealand, vulgar, slang)
Annoyed.
Don't get shitty at me!
 
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Loremaster-at-Large had me at Fire Dragons :)
Bodyguard is now a lot less apealing. Playing politics is not my cup of tea, and Colleages might not like having the Articles used against them. It's a can of worms I'd rather not open.
Swamp Town... No. I was notmuch interested in the first place, and now we've learnt it's a shitty job noone realy wants :) If you really like to explore new world, then go ahead vote for it, I'm not going to.
I really loved the interview for Spymaster, I already love the Count as a character. Unfortunately, I just don't like the job.
Edgelady - a LOT of leeway. Like ALOT. She's basically making us the EC of Sylvania, just without the electorial vote. I'm torn on that one.
I think Waystones are still my primary vote, but Margrafin, Princess and Loremaster are close behind.
 
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