I dont think franchising can work in a pre-modern system, you're not going to give your name to a different group to ruin without actually being in charge and making sure that you can smack them if they are silly.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Isn't franchising pretty much just the merchant version of being a guild or order?
guild and orders still keep a strict eye on you, and to act as a quality and standards board.
the whole point of franchising is to stay as hands-off as possible while reaping a reward.
edit: if a merchant was selling bad stock, the guild would not get in trouble as long as they fine or kick them out.
a bad EIC sub would have the blame go up the ladder a lot more.
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- Location
- Canada
"Excellent report, Matilde. Now, you said you had information for my ears only?"
"I have reason to believe that Thorgrim is a secret Border Princess."
"HOW COULD I HAVE BEEN SO BLIND"
- Location
- MS, USA
Honestly, I didn't vote because I had no clue which one I wanted to see win, I was (and still am) off the opinion that the consequences, while predictable to a degree, are simply too unknowable. I bring this up, because it kind of shocks me just how... 'decisive' is the wrong word, but... 'not close?' the vote was.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
When in doubt, kick the buck upstairs.
You joke, and I do think people want it to be the right choice.
but there is a level of: not telling him is our fault if it goes wrong, telling him is his fault if it goes wrong.
- Location
- Greece
For good or ill, that is not a thread exclusive problem. Ask most bureaucracies of the world, people really want to foster the decision, and consequences, to their boss. Sometimes it is justifiable, some times it isn't. But it is.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Bosses get more pay for a reason.
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
Honestly I was surprised it was so close.
When I read the update, despite being not quite certain myself, I was expecting it to be a 5:1 slam dunk "yes" not this 2:1 deeply controversial decision.
- Location
- Norway
Another factor: When in doubt about consequences, be honest with the Dwarf.
- Location
- Great Khanate of Scotland
- Pronouns
- She/Her
But before taxes, the only certainty was death!
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I believe you mean this quote, from way back early days.
- Location
- Canada
"But wait, what does that have to do with the stolen magic?"
Wordlessly, you push an artist's sketch across the table to him.
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
Burned_Cookie
Very tired girl.
- Location
- Plato´s cave.
- Pronouns
- She/Her/It/Its
You don't know that, maybe he is studying to be a lawyer.
- Location
- USA
Laws and litigation regarding magical constructs and nightmarish creatures. I've heard about niches, but man...
- Location
- Edmonton
- Pronouns
- He/Him
They told me the manlings knew depths of depravity that even elves could blush at.
I didn't believe them then.
I know better now.
/undwarf
Not even a week and Im finding uses for this meme template!
How much power DID the tax collectors have to collect with anyway?
I got the impression they were limited mainly by:
-Not a lot of people having the liquidity to pay taxes with, can't make a dude pay silver he doesn't have, and if you take it in goods you have to figure out how to sell it.
-Their having thugs, not soldiers, beating the shit out of people for money works until people feel cornered enough to grab what they have and try their luck beating you back. The state does not give a crap, the tax bidding meant they already got the money, if the publicani fails because their bid was overambitious, its their problem.
-They still had to follow the laws on things like no murdering dudes(that matter).
- Location
- Finland
It, as usual, comes down to this.
A system must be able to sustain itself, or it doesn't.
Tax bidding must have had a level of sustainability to it, you can't just rob people blind once a year and expect them to allow it, and most people don't have that much anyway so if you take that much from them they'll become bandits or try to murder you and/or your thugs.
Were the taxes higher than they should be? Possibly.
Were there abuses in the system? Inevitably.
Should it have been reformed? Surely.
Was the system unjust? Absolutely.
Did it function? Reasonably.
A system must be able to sustain itself, or it doesn't.
Tax bidding must have had a level of sustainability to it, you can't just rob people blind once a year and expect them to allow it, and most people don't have that much anyway so if you take that much from them they'll become bandits or try to murder you and/or your thugs.
Were the taxes higher than they should be? Possibly.
Were there abuses in the system? Inevitably.
Should it have been reformed? Surely.
Was the system unjust? Absolutely.
Did it function? Reasonably.
I think what kept it sustainable is pretty much that there wasn't THAT much liquid cash around to begin with. A lot of wealth is bound up in fixed assets that you can destroy but are worth far less to you than the person who has it. Land, furnishings, food, tools, etc.
Actual coin is mainly excess wealth then, not needed for survival for the most part.
Actual coin is mainly excess wealth then, not needed for survival for the most part.
If memory serves, the 'farmed' taxes that the publicani were collecting were a wealth tax, which meant that a lot of land-rich and cash-poor people were easy prey for the unscrupulous. Augustus' reforms that did away with the publicani also changed the taxes to an combined income and poll tax instead. But it's important not to take any writings from the time completely at face value, because the issue was in part a senatorial class vs equites class proxy war. Senators were forbidden by law to be publicani, owned a lot of the land that taxes were owed on, and were uneasy about the growing wealth and influence of the equites.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
I'd forgotten that we've previously turned a negative trait into a positive one with time investment. I wonder if we can do the same with Disdain for Sigmar - perhaps reaffirming our belief in all the other Gods, that even in Sigmar-dominated instititions they won't let him screw it up too badly?
Was it really only for 3 years? I vaguely recall a discussion about how Rosie was really screwing herself in the long-term and for her successors, but that was a long time ago now.
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