Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I know this is a weird time to ask about it, but have we done any work on an Ulgu Ascension ritual?

I'd quite like to stop aging while we are still young.
I get the feeling that if we transform into a being of raw confusion and uncertainty, made out of shadows and dust, strung together by cobwebs and filled full of mist, that our physical appearance at the time of our ascension isn't going to matter too much. We could slap on an illusion if we felt like being pretty, certainly.
 
Except that this is a Dwarven project, not an Imperial one. They're trying to twist the Empire's arm to make the Dwarves back down. Even if the Empire decided to cave, what makes them think the Dwarves will care? And what makes them think that the Dwarves will not Begrudge them for their audacity?
I don't recall anyone ever accusing Marienburg as a polity of acting in a manner that could be construed as intelligent, especially when it comes to their wallets such as here.
 
I don't think a lot of the voters necessarily understand the scope of committing Barak Varr to the Empire's side really entails.

Dreadnoughts are the scariest things afloat that aren't Black Arks or Dragonships, and the latter is really just a matter of debate. They've got a foot of armor plating, are fast as hell, and have turreted cannons of the best kind Dwarfs can make. The High Elves are not going to try and take one on without a Dragonship- because that's the only reliable way they have of breaking a Dreadnought's armor- that and Magic. The Dragonship's hull? Utterly irreplaceable, they can't grow Star Trees anymore. The Dragonblades that are it's main weapons? Utterly irreplaceable using lost techniques on the Anvil of Vaul (which, hey, they can't use).

Who is going to tell me that the Elves, are going to risk their irreplaceable flagships and weapon of best resort against the hated Druchii's Black Arks against a warmachine that the Dwarfs can build more of within an Elf's lifespan? Ulthuan is a world power that has been waging a world war for centuries. It is not going to risk an irreplaceable Dragonship against an immanently replaceable Dreadnought unless it's a matter of vital importance. Marienburg isn't that important.
 
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I know this is a weird time to ask about it, but have we done any work on an Ulgu Ascension ritual?

I'd quite like to stop aging while we are still young.
We have not, nor has Mathilde ever considered such a thing in character or seen such a thing come up on-screen.

People have mentioned it in the thread, but it is as far as I can tell a scheme that runs wholly on OOC knowledge, nothing internal to Mathilde.

(my personal preferred transhuman endgame for Mathilde is "become the Dwarf Ancestor God of Rangers" but I recognize this is a plan with more than two problems.)
 
Except that this is a Dwarven project, not an Imperial one. They're trying to twist the Empire's arm to make the Dwarves back down. Even if the Empire decided to cave, what makes them think the Dwarves will care? And what makes them think that the Dwarves will not Begrudge them for their audacity?
Oh that's simple: they have absolutely no leverage on the Dwarves at all. They are leaning on the Empire as hard as they can in the hopes that they can convince the Dwarves to stop, because their only other option is just to let it happen. They have no good moves.
 
We have not, nor has Mathilde ever considered such a thing in character or seen such a thing come up on-screen.

People have mentioned it in the thread, but it is as far as I can tell a scheme that runs wholly on OOC knowledge, nothing internal to Mathilde.

(my personal preferred transhuman endgame for Mathilde is "become the Dwarf Ancestor God of Rangers" but I recognize this is a plan with more than two problems.)

I vaguely want to conquer and become Queen of the Border Princes, but we have enough on our plate before we start that that unless we figure out a way to turn back the clock on the whole aging we won't really be able to even start until we are, like, 50 ... and that seems a little late for empire building.
 
We have not, nor has Mathilde ever considered such a thing in character or seen such a thing come up on-screen.

People have mentioned it in the thread, but it is as far as I can tell a scheme that runs wholly on OOC knowledge, nothing internal to Mathilde.

(my personal preferred transhuman endgame for Mathilde is "become the Dwarf Ancestor God of Rangers" but I recognize this is a plan with more than two problems.)
(Well, she'd have to be a married dwarf, yeah.)

The general idea of 'I want to be immortal' certainly isn't an OOC desire. I would have added on to that statement something like 'although the methods we've been thinking of to accomplish this transformation are OOC', but the only specific plan to do so, in the sense that it has particulars that we can accomplish, we do know how to complete in-character, so that wouldn't be quite accurate.
 
Oh that's simple: they have absolutely no leverage on the Dwarves at all. They are leaning on the Empire as hard as they can in the hopes that they can convince the Dwarves to stop, because their only other option is just to let it happen. They have no good moves.
Their good move would be individually finding suckers to buy their Araby Tilea and Estelia trade investments off them and reinvesting that windfall in the New World. Elves still dominate the Cathay trade and their relationship with Ulthuan means they'll still have that going for them, the new world is where their geography shines becaues it doesn't have to deal with all the fucking pirates on the Black Gulf.
 
question, can someone post a tally please? I would do one myself, but its been trying to load the tally for like 10 minutes now, so I think somethings up on my end.
 
[X] No, but they could help break the blockade

All of this seems to point in the favor of the blockade breaker option, because it's hard to shiv an ironclad, but there is one potential avenue I'm concerned about there, and that is to bait the Grudgy Dwarves. If some Marienburgers could fake to the Dwarves that the Elves were interfering with the counter-embargo, and a particularly ornery Dwarf captain could be persuaded to do something impolitic to the Elven quarter, that would be, uh, poor. Alternately, if the Marienburgers just chose some sacrificial ponds to throw at the Dwarves until one of them attacked something that wasn't a Naval asset and called upon Ulthuan's treaty, that would lead to issues. Now, Dwarves are a resilient lot, and I don't think that such a a ploy would be likely to work. Why, I think it would be an outright longshot.
You make it sound like the Marienburgers would want to provoke a full Dwarf-Elf conflict.

Do you think being the battlefield of the next World War is going to be good for them?
Do you think any sane trader would want the Ulthuani navy-mages using their greatest magic against dwarven Ironclads, when they themselves and all their assets are in the radius of the explosion?

If a true War of the Beard II, it's not just Ulthuan and the Karaz Ankor who will loose, Marienburg will as well and likely sooner and harder than either of the main parties.
 
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question, can someone post a tally please? I would do one myself, but its been trying to load the tally for like 10 minutes now, so I think somethings up on my end.
It seems to be down for everyone in this thread, I've posted a bug report in the main vote tool thread.

Edit: Here's the report

Bug report: the vote tally in Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties seems to be broken. Issue seems to have developed between a 8:51 AM JST(about two hours ago) when the last successful tally was made and about 9:30 AM JST when I first tried using the tally today. For me pressing the tally button either does nothing or gets stuck on "Processing Tally...". The fact that no ones updated the tally since 8:51 seems to imply that others are having trouble too, though I can't be sure. I did a test tally in RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR which seemed fine so it appears to be a local problem.

Edit: @Aranfan says they're also experiencing issues.
 
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You say as if a full scale naval war wouldn't be at least as damaging.
It wouldn't. Dreadnoughts would goomba stomp anything Marienburg has, and Ulthuan would want at least Dreadnought-Dragonship parity to even consider the risks of deploying what are irreplaceable super weapons. And Barak Varr has next to no actual naval commitments at the moment besides curtailing Sartosa and patrolling the Blood River.

People are saying absolutely baseless shit like 'this is just the KA ponying up wealth they're not using' despite the option explicitly saying it weakens the KA and the Empire. This isn't about jingoism, this isn't about revanchism, this is about the fact when Marienburg's bottom line was threatened, they're trying to exort us.

It is always a temptation for a rich and lazy nation,
To puff and look important and to say: --
"Though we know we should defeat you, we have not the time to meet you.
We will therefore pay you cash to go away."

And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
But we've proved it again and again,
That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
You never get rid of the Dane.

[X] No, but they could help break the blockade
 
[X] No, but they could help break the blockade
[X] No, but they would fight beside you

My time playing tabletop 2e has left me with Very Little Patience for Marienburg's shenanigans. ☠
 
People are saying absolutely baseless shit like 'this is just the KA ponying up wealth they're not using' despite the option explicitly saying it weakens the KA and the Empire. This isn't about jingoism, this isn't about revanchism, this is about the fact when Marienburg's bottom line was threatened, they're trying to exort us.
We're not paying Marienburg money, we're taking our economy and going to our dwarf friend's house. They get nothing from it. And when the canal is done, they never will again. And they know that. They're just trying to get us to pick a fight with them so that their elf friends will come and beat us up again.
 
People are saying absolutely baseless shit like 'this is just the KA ponying up wealth they're not using' despite the option explicitly saying it weakens the KA and the Empire. This isn't about jingoism, this isn't about revanchism, this is about the fact when Marienburg's bottom line was threatened, they're trying to exort us.
As the main person banging that drum and using those specific words, here's what I said on the subject earlier:
Oh, I agree. It's a monetary stimulus to make up for a fiscal depression. I'm certainly not trying to argue that Boney is lying in the option; it will definitely cause pain for everyone involved. I just don't think the degree of hurt on the Empire's part is massive.
It's not just pure wealth, but also the influence that would have to be expended to route needed supplies through overland routes. Barak Varr and Zhufbar are likely to take on the brunt of it as it's largely their project, and they'd be significantly weakened by it, and the Empire will still be weaker than the status quo for it.
So I resent the misstatement of my position when I had in fact explicitly acknowledged this factor. What I was saying in my posts was that this wasn't appeasement, a misconception I saw in a lot of places, and in fact see again in your most recent post. Why on earth do you think this is a Danegeld? Are you under the impression that Marienburg is getting money off of this? Because they're not! Explicitly, they're not! The economic aid from Barak Varr and Zhufbar goes to the Empire. Barak Varr and Zhufbar lose a lot of money, the Empire suffers a recession, but Marienburg gets fucking nothing. No tolls, no fees, no incidental purchases, nothing. It's not a Danegeld, it's a boycott. They want to play chicken because they think they can survive without the Empire for longer than the Empire can survive without them. And they'd be right, unless we get aid from the dwarves.
 
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So one concern with the 'they can break the blockade' option is that we might be telling him something that he already knows, and thus giving useless advice. after all he knows that Barak Varr are the ones behind this, and are the ones with the Dwarf navy.

It might be more sensible to tell him they can make up the difference in trade. Though I'm note entirely decided.
 
...yeah, the more I think about this, the more confusing it gets. I mean, the decisionmakers in Marienburg have less information than we do, but surely they don't think the Dwarves will just give up partway through?

I have no idea what Marienburg's endgame is, and that's worrying. I think we need to make a discreet visit to Marienburg as soon as possible. We need information, and may need to stab a cultist in the face.
Their actions mostly make sense if they think the Empire will capitulate immediately (which Graf kind of wants to do, but can't) or if they think this canal will destroy their economic stranglehold and so they have to crush it now or they're doomed, in which case they'll hold on to the bitter end.

Very different motives, very different responses to Suddenly Dwarf Ironclads, no real way to tell from here.
Holds along the canal - Somebody is attacking an ally for something we did? Grab my ironclads!
Great, now I'm imagining the incipient Second War of the Beard in the context of dwarfporn.
 
So one concern with the 'they can break the blockade' option is that we might be telling him something that he already knows, and thus giving useless advice. after all he knows that Barak Varr are the ones behind this, and are the ones with the Dwarf navy.
The chapter showed that what seems obvious to us is not so much obvious to the diplomat who approached Karaz-a-Karak and recieved a meh about the whole canal thing, but we know the Barak Varr Dwarves will not say meh, so we gotta tell him that.
 
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