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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Parzival95 said:
For the AV, it needn't necessarily have to be gotten form the Warp. Afterall, if magic really is similar to solid-liquid-gas, then theoretically it should be possible to transform each way.

If AV can boil into winds, and the winds can be formed into power stones, then shouldn't it theoretically be possible to melt stones together or gather the winds into vitae?

Granted, this sounds very much like alchemy, which Mathilde has no aptitude or experience with, so maybe we should read Johann and Panoramia into this. They're both alchemists right?
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Probably not, the reaction looks to be one way, like a fire. You can't unburn a torch and you can't make the undifferentiated matter of the polar realms from the very much differentiated winds.
 
picklepikkl said:
Our backlog of possible papers isn't actually forever-growing.

This is what we've got. Two faded papers about greenskins from the Reclamation, the We book and its component papers, and the AV early results paper. Now, granted, next turn will probably involve setting Max and Johann to work on our much larger artifact backlog:

And so we'll be getting more potential papers out of those results*, but right now? We shrunk our paper backlog to a totally reasonable size. Writing up the preliminary results of AV is not obviously a waste of time we could be spending on better things: it's pretty much that, start the We book, or begin our career as a dime-store novelist.

*My inclination is to put Max on the captured clan moulder devices we still don't know anything about and Johann on the breathing apparatus, but I don't think it really matters.
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It absolutely is forever-growing - we have a backlog of artefacts to turn into papers when those three are done. It just looks a lot more manageable than usual because we've just made a large push at publishing several of them.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
But if you're seriously arguing that action efficiency isn't important in the face of our forever-growing backlog of possible papers, then I don't know what to say to you*.
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Probably that you want Max and Johann to work through the Skaven artifact backlog as quickly as possible, and that rather than having them alternate between researching/writing a paper every turn, you'd prefer to leave one of them on full-time research duty while we write their papers for them.

Which isn't an unreasonable desire necessarily, but, again, the thread is at the point where it's considering relaxing and publishing romance novels and I don't even particularly object to that.

DragonParadox said:
Probably not, the reaction looks to be one way, like a fire. You can't unburn a torch and you can't make the undifferentiated matter of the polar realms from the very much differentiated winds.
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Sure, you probably can't.

But we'll never know for sure unless we ask an alchemist. Or give them the paper that lets them know they should try.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
It absolutely is forever-growing - we have a backlog of artefacts to turn into papers when those three are done. It just looks a lot more manageable than usual because we've just made a large push at publishing several of them.
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but I will point out that its not 1=1. some of the artefacts might take 2 to 3 turns before paper, so there might be times that the tower of paper is free(ish)
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
but I will point out that its not 1=1. some of the artefacts might take 2 to 3 turns before paper, so there might be times that the tower of paper is free(ish)
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In which case I'd honestly rather spend the free action on writing a Romance novel than publishing about AV early. I believe the benefits outweigh any costs - we certainly aren't short of College Favour in the short run - and yes, I do want to drop a whole book on the subject at once.
 
BoneyM said:
No. More magic might make it more likely to get the spell off while also eating a miscast instead of just a normal miscast, though.
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BoneyM said:
No. There might be some theoretically safer way of learning a spell if you're that astoundingly puissant, but if there is, the College doesn't know it.
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So beating Dragomas or even Teclis would be as easy for someone lucky as forcing them to use battle magic and them getting hit with the right miscast, then?

...Actually, how do elf high mages live to be so old, again? The odds are against them even if they rarely use battlemagic, as just learning it can easily end catastrophically. Unless they have a secret magic advantage other than the ones we know about... I guess that would be spoiler territory, though, so consider this just a musing for the thread, not a question.

TotallyNotEvil said:
Man, this freaking Alric guy. Patriarch (or even SP?!) back during Dieter, let things escalate till the general insanity of Thousand Duels, got done in by Horx but didn't have the decency to die, is now Patriarch of Light again, at some point steps back to be just Master Chanter so he has time to throw innocent kids into pits meters deep completely filled with snakes.
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Sounds almost as if that guy is subverted by chaos, although maybe less knowingly so than his canonical successor.
 
veekie said:
This is mostly invented by people arguing for maximal secrecy.
He's a diplomat, he's talking to a spy. The diplomat has discretion for how to handle complicated political morasses, the spy has discretion for how to handle their cover, short of being expressedly burned...and given the nature of spywork, its almost certain that the spy has to volunteer to be burned, or you wouldn't have the information to begin with.

There is effectively no means by which he would coerce Mathilde on her information without simultaneously rendering most of her information worthless, hence why this is the Chamberlain talking and not the Emperor or Algard(who DO actually have the kind of authority that a suggestion may be taken as an order)
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For what it's worth, I was mostly referring to Boney's various posts that essentially boil down to "[reason I shouldn't tell you]", "I don't care, either spill the beans, or piss me off hugely by telling me you know better than I do", the, like, four(?) of them paint a picture of a man who can be spilled the beans to; hugely annoyed by being stonewalled; or deceivied into thinking we know nothing about whatever question he's asking, with very little wiggle room, to the point where he'd go get the emperor out of bed rather than let us wriggle away after revealing the existence of knowledge.
 
After looking at the Dramatis Personae post, I realized that King Kazador Thunderhorn, who does have a canonical statline on Tabletop, has lower CK2 Martial skill (of 15) than most of the people Mathilde knows, including herself. Either the data on him is actually outdated or there are some hidden skills that will raise his stats to match equivalent leaders.
 
You know what I've noticed? It's been ten years, next turn, since the end of the expedition. Not the taking of Karagril, but the initial expedition. Sooo.. how are them songs coming along? Or has the additional content (Karagril, Caldera) pushed back the publishing of the initial sections as well? Or does it take more than ten years for dwarves to decide what an official song/retelling should be like? At least for the initial expedition from the Empire to taking two peaks and the Citadel?

Weren't the dwarven poets supposed to come up to Mat and present their results at some point? Since she is Loremaster of K8P?

EDIT: Though I could be wrong. It's ten turns. How long is a turn again?
 
SCValerius said:
After looking at the Dramatis Personae post, I realized that King Kazador Thunderhorn, who does have a canonical statline on Tabletop, has lower CK2 Martial skill (of 15) than most of the people Mathilde knows, including herself. Either the data on him is actually outdated or there are some hidden skills that will raise his stats to match equivalent leaders.
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He has a few specialized traits that buff his personal Throng.
 
SCValerius said:
After looking at the Dramatis Personae post, I realized that King Kazador Thunderhorn, who does have a canonical statline on Tabletop, has lower CK2 Martial skill (of 15) than most of the people Mathilde knows, including herself. Either the data on him is actually outdated or there are some hidden skills that will raise his stats to match equivalent leaders.
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It's accurate at least as of Waaagh Birdmuncha, but it's made up for by situational bonuses:
BoneyM said:
[King Kazador vs Unknown Skaven Commander, Northern Defences: Martial, 60+15+20(Thunderhorn)+10(Master Rune of Dismay)=105 vs 68+15+10(Desperate)-10(Communications Cut)-10(Intimidated)-10(Completely Isolated)=63.]
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His trait Thunderhorn gives him +20 in the context of leading his Throng. He might not be a great duelist, but he is a surpassingly excellent general.
 
storryeater said:
So beating Dragomas or even Teclis would be as easy for someone lucky as forcing them to use battle magic and them getting hit with the right miscast, then?

...Actually, how do elf high mages live to be so old, again? The odds are against them even if they rarely use battlemagic, as just learning it can easily end catastrophically. Unless they have a secret magic advantage other than the ones we know about... I guess that would be spoiler territory, though, so consider this just a musing for the thread, not a question.
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It's almost certain that the White Tower of Hoeth has some much less fraught way of teaching, but it also probably has something to do with it taking multiple human lifetimes.

SCValerius said:
After looking at the Dramatis Personae post, I realized that King Kazador Thunderhorn, who does have a canonical statline on Tabletop, has lower CK2 Martial skill (of 15) than most of the people Mathilde knows, including herself. Either the data on him is actually outdated or there are some hidden skills that will raise his stats to match equivalent leaders.
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Kazador is hyperspecialized. In the specific scenario of leading his Throng, especially against greenskins, doubly especially in mountainous terrain, he is an absolute juggernaut. In most other military scenarios, he'd be much less so.

Andres110 said:
@BoneyM are these books on dwarf runes, arcane runes, both, or is it dependent on source?
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Dwarf Runes.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
Given that we currently have said sole source of it, how exactly are they going to be finding new sources of it?
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I have an idea for that which doesn't need outright demon summoning , first we would need to redesign the box the whole capturing the asp between reality and the warp was literally a 1 in 100 chance as that was not the intended result so we would need to design a box meant to cause that specific reaction then we would send the new box to the colleges , the logic being that should a member of the colleges of magic find a situation involving a wisdom's asp he would use the box to capture it while yes this is not an ideal solution as wisdom's asps are very rare they are not so rare as to be completely unheard of so one is bound to captured eventually even if it years down the line
 
[X] Conceal matters you know the Dwarves would prefer you conceal

I'm kinda in favor of sending a warning shot here: we are extremely loyal to the dwarves, because they are extremely loyal to us. Im not opposed to moving to k8p full time if the empire decides to make a stink about it.

And bluntly, we've given enough personal and professional indications to the dwarves that we will hold their confidences that I'm not willing to break. Casually violating the spirit of that is not something I'm ok with, even at the cost of getting cross-ways with the council.

We are worth more to them then vice versa right now. And we are almost in a position where if they start trying to pressure us indirectly, we could probably cash out our favor for a temporary trade embargo against the empire: we are not a small fry any more.

If it weren't going to come off to the dwarves as betrayal I'd be cool, but they've started to share a lot of their less-classified stuff with us under the assumption we are reliable. This would kill that if it got out, likely get us kicked out of the loremaster spot so we can't spy on council meetings for the empire any more.
 
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@picklepikkl I think we should do power stone training before rune training. The Coin is unlikely to give us divine magic after the first action, which means that after the safety action we'll need to pick another AV action. Power stone training will let us do two AV actions as we make our way towards divine magic.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
talking about flying, when is Mathy getting her flying magical pony?

it doesn't matter how practical it is with copters or the shadowstead, there is no wizard who doesn't dream of a flying magical pony.
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When Mathilde gives in and learns battlemagic:
BoneyM said:
U / Steed of Shadows: Not to be confused with Shadowsteed, an insubstantial pegasus or drake appears under an ally within short range and carries them across the battlefield at incredible speed.
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mmgaballah said:
I have an idea for that which doesn't need outright demon summoning , first we would need to redesign the box the whole capturing the asp between reality and the warp was literally a 1 in 100 chance as that was not the intended result so we would need to design a box meant to cause that specific reaction then we would send the new box to the colleges , the logic being that should a member of the colleges of magic find a situation involving a wisdom's asp he would use the box to capture it while yes this is not an ideal solution as wisdom's asps are very rare they are not so rare as to be completely unheard of so one is bound to captured eventually even if it years down the line
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I have in fact suggested this exact thing. If we were to do this, I suppose I'd accede to publishing AV early so they know what they're trying to do and why, but ideally we'd just tell them it'll save the apprentice and the results would be useful to our ongoing project.

If you want a background roll for getting another source of AV, this one - which doubles as a method of saving hapless Apprentices - would be nice.
 
Andres110 said:
@picklepikkl I think we should do power stone training before rune training. The Coin is unlikely to give us divine magic after the first action, which means that after the safety action we'll need to pick another AV action. Power stone training will let us do two AV actions as we make our way towards divine magic.
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I really didn't mean to start the debate about turn planning early, but in brief: the reason I think we should get rune or enchanting training next turn is that I'm operating under the presumption that our assigned task from Belegar is going to be one that requires us to enchant things. Unless there are brand new projects on the table, the obvious things he might want us to do (seviroscope, battle map table) are enchanting-centric and the less-likely things (AV, preliminary Waystone research) still benefit from deepening our understanding on how magic can be vested in material objects. As such, getting better at enchanting (either more powerful spells through enchanting training or more control/other benefits through the study of Imperial runes) benefits our ability to do our job for the next year as well as our personal projects. It is a very flexible avenue to study.

Powerstone classes are still useful, and I think there's a reasonable chance we'll take them next turn, but if we do I think it would be in addition to enchanting/runes, not instead of. Remember, Boney specifically OKed taking a Powerstone class on the same turn as the "try to turn AV into powerstone" action, so our ability to take two AV actions on a future turn isn't jeopardized by not doing the class now.
 
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