I think you overestimate how much the elves would care about another human doing dangerous experiments 'beyond their feeble grasp of magic'. An absentminded 'go away' is more likely than stabbing.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I think you overestimate how much the elves would care about another human doing dangerous experiments 'beyond their feeble grasp of magic'. An absentminded 'go away' is more likely than stabbing.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
We're discussing what AV Powerstones might do, in the context of whether to research subjecting AV to Powerstone creation methods. You then stated the following:
I was being lighthearted about it to try and brush over it to avoid embarrassing you, but the research you are referring to is literally the research we are discussing. You are literally saying it's not worth doing the research on whether AV Powerstones are possible or what they might do until we have done the research on whether AV Powerstones are possible or what they might do, which is nonsensical.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Canonically, there's just the Dragon Mages. The only other mages even mentioned are 'mist-mages' but what they are and how they work is a complete unknown. As Boney has gone with Nagarythe still being around and having a distinct magical tradition of it's own, who knows what's up with Ulthuan.
What the heck is Yen-Eltharin?
Threads. Threads never change.
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AV is very unlikely you be Qhyash in physical form, given the implication it can also become divine magic. We've seen AV transform into the winds, it doesn't appear to be the right winds mixed to start off with.
Negaverse: “Weber must be crazy”
- Location
- London
Well here's a somewhat lazy attempt at a Negaverse Omake, hope you guys enjoy it.
Negaverse "Weber must be crazy"
The others file out, you ignore them in favour of the papers your Loremaster had given you.
The umgi, he decided, we're surely crazy. "Are you seriously-" he quickly stopped himself. "First things first. The spiders?"
"First Loremaster got along with them, but couldn't make it work. Still deciding on a second."
"About what I expected. Damn strange creatures. But if we can ever get that damn silk worked, it'll pay for a thousand Loremasters. And Sylvania?"
From a canvas bag, Weber pulls out a grinning skull. "Alkharad of the Necrarchs. He was hounding the Elector Countess with weekly assassination attempts, and was training up an army of apprentices." She tosses the skull underhandedly to you, which you proceed to catch. You smile grimly at the vampires skull, a grin it seems to eerily mirror.
"Only brought back the Vampire's skull, but the apprentices are dead too. None of the other openly-operating Vampires are in the same league."
"Good." You prod one of the fangs of the skull in idle curiosity, before passing it back and trying to get your thoughts in order. "Great, in fact. The Empire has not been the most consistent source of assistance, but you get no ore from a shaft you never dig. Okay. Now..."
You fumble, trying to parse through a hundred things you wanted to scream at her.
"The Burning Shadows thing?" She sums it up neatly.
"Yes, the Burning Shadows thing!" You finally yell, by the ancestors why didn't she mention this shit before! "You can weaponize a mountain?!"
"Not on a whim, but yes, with time and equipment-"
"Why am I just hearing about this now?!" you smack the paper with the back of your hand, in a fit of bewilderment. "Why was that not how you introduced yourself back in Averland?! 'I'm Mathilde Weber, I can kill things with mountains'."
"So, I take it-"
"Yes! I would like very much for you to put a hard time limit of twenty-four hours on every possible overland siege we could face!" You stop to calm yourself. "Okay, first, make damn sure it can't happen by accident or by any hand other than your own" it was best to put in numerous safety measures when using something that employed such a fickle force, in fact- "and once you've put your own measures in place to ensure that, get Kragg and get him to add some of his own." Better to be safe than sorry. "But once that's done, yes. Bring in as many Zhufokri as you need, take as much gold and make as many promises as it takes." You shake your head. "Are there any other apocalypse weapons you've been sitting on that you want to share with me?"
You needed to know now, so you could get busy pointing them at the Orks or the Skaven and not being wasted.
Oh you do not like that silence. You stare at her, not sure if you should be praying to the ancestors right now.
"None ready for deployment," she finally states.
What the shit Weber?!
You just shake your head, feeling very done with this conversation. "Zhufokri," I say, stands, before going to leave.
"Dawi," you hear her say with a sigh.
AN: So this is what you get for that fucking game breaking roll. The Eye of Gazul will be ready for testing in a few turns or so. Now if you'll excuse me I need to go lie down.
Negaverse "Weber must be crazy"
The others file out, you ignore them in favour of the papers your Loremaster had given you.
The umgi, he decided, we're surely crazy. "Are you seriously-" he quickly stopped himself. "First things first. The spiders?"
"First Loremaster got along with them, but couldn't make it work. Still deciding on a second."
"About what I expected. Damn strange creatures. But if we can ever get that damn silk worked, it'll pay for a thousand Loremasters. And Sylvania?"
From a canvas bag, Weber pulls out a grinning skull. "Alkharad of the Necrarchs. He was hounding the Elector Countess with weekly assassination attempts, and was training up an army of apprentices." She tosses the skull underhandedly to you, which you proceed to catch. You smile grimly at the vampires skull, a grin it seems to eerily mirror.
"Only brought back the Vampire's skull, but the apprentices are dead too. None of the other openly-operating Vampires are in the same league."
"Good." You prod one of the fangs of the skull in idle curiosity, before passing it back and trying to get your thoughts in order. "Great, in fact. The Empire has not been the most consistent source of assistance, but you get no ore from a shaft you never dig. Okay. Now..."
You fumble, trying to parse through a hundred things you wanted to scream at her.
"The Burning Shadows thing?" She sums it up neatly.
"Yes, the Burning Shadows thing!" You finally yell, by the ancestors why didn't she mention this shit before! "You can weaponize a mountain?!"
"Not on a whim, but yes, with time and equipment-"
"Why am I just hearing about this now?!" you smack the paper with the back of your hand, in a fit of bewilderment. "Why was that not how you introduced yourself back in Averland?! 'I'm Mathilde Weber, I can kill things with mountains'."
"So, I take it-"
"Yes! I would like very much for you to put a hard time limit of twenty-four hours on every possible overland siege we could face!" You stop to calm yourself. "Okay, first, make damn sure it can't happen by accident or by any hand other than your own" it was best to put in numerous safety measures when using something that employed such a fickle force, in fact- "and once you've put your own measures in place to ensure that, get Kragg and get him to add some of his own." Better to be safe than sorry. "But once that's done, yes. Bring in as many Zhufokri as you need, take as much gold and make as many promises as it takes." You shake your head. "Are there any other apocalypse weapons you've been sitting on that you want to share with me?"
You needed to know now, so you could get busy pointing them at the Orks or the Skaven and not being wasted.
Oh you do not like that silence. You stare at her, not sure if you should be praying to the ancestors right now.
"None ready for deployment," she finally states.
What the shit Weber?!
You just shake your head, feeling very done with this conversation. "Zhufokri," I say, stands, before going to leave.
"Dawi," you hear her say with a sigh.
AN: So this is what you get for that fucking game breaking roll. The Eye of Gazul will be ready for testing in a few turns or so. Now if you'll excuse me I need to go lie down.
Tasol Man said:
NSSM said:
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The artist formally known as Ironfist said:
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- Location
- Germany
I think the "X goes BRRRR!" thing wasn't a meme yet, back when that happened.
Edit: Also TNE's name-variant is great. That alone is worth a Funny.
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- Location
- Utrecht
Teclisian theory can potentially be extended to "divine magic" though. Iirc we could even write a paper to prove it. The colleges don't have access the complete corpus of high elf Wind lore.
kfrar
Aspiring Encyclopedia
Look, there are some things we really need to have sorted if we want to actually impress the Elves, which we'll need to do if we want to get long-term benefits out of Elfcation. For one, we'll want to tame our Arcane Marks, so we don't look like we're magically incompetent. For another, we'll want to nail down the Branulhune sword style, because it should be highly effective against people who've had thousands of years to develop their preconceived notions about what is and isn't possible to do with a sword, and dying to a bunch of druchii would just be sad. And finally, we'll want to be Lady Magister, so the elves will be forced to recognize that we've graduated Teclis's Kindergarten for Magical Primates.
There's plenty more that would be nice to have on top of that - a staff, for example, or better enchanted robes - but there'll always be more stuff that's nice to have. Not looking magically incontinent, having our actual sword style, and being certified borderline competent are the three things I think we really need, though.
Because if we go, look like we're just flailing around like some sort of half-trained Ulgu monkey, and then demonstrate a combat style that's sort of alright for a human I guess, we're far less likely to impress the elves enough for them to let us stick around and learn cool new Ulgu shit than if we get that shit sorted.
The issue, of course, is that our Court Wizard self-improvement track is entirely seperate, focusing more on College courses for Enchanting, Powerstones, and Runework than on how well we can sword things. Personally, my hope is to blitz through those remaining relevant College courses with the help of Overwork, and then to chip away through our Arcane Marks and Sword Training in the hopes of finishing them up by the time we get promoted to Lady Magister, with the aim of Elfcationing as soon as we finish our next project after that.
In practice, I have no doubt that something will come up to interrupt those plans, but that's my general take on Elfcation - as soon as possible after LM, doing the best we can to deal with our most glaring magical and martial deficiencies before then.
...rude, mate.
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- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
The dialect spoken by the Eonir, the elves of Laurelorn.
I concur with kfrar. Liking negaverse omakes is fine, writing them is fine, writing them deliberately to annoy someone else is a dick move.
- Location
- Poland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Ah, so it's like Skyrim.
You grind up various skills/attributes, and through those, you get levels.
And while there are some universal perks of high enough level (in being able to reliably cast certain spells), the actual build that led to a given level differs for each person.
- Location
- Brazil
You know, it's kind of funny how this hasn't been brought up until now.
"Why not turn humans into dragons permanently, and make an army?"
"Chaos."
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- Location
- London
Admittedly I may have been a bit more annoyed than I should have been. I apologise
Is it weird that I'm a little sad that 'alt me' has yet to make an appearance in one of these?
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Thinking about it I think for the next turn I'm going to propose an Ulgu tongs plan with a coin boosted action for it, it's exploratory in nature but it'll have huge impact on our AV research for enchanting and such going forward, it'll either massively constrain the action space of what's achievable or blow it wide open giving us loads more potential AV research actions.
- Location
- London
Well I could probably add a few more commenters if you want?
Edit: done it.
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From what we know, Teclis' magical theory that he taught them very much incorporates divine magic. It's just that, according to Realms of Sorcery the Colleges don't seen to have taken it on board, as what it seems to say about divinity is rather unpalatable to how humans perceive their gods.
I'm wondering more about the use of runes to control other Winds. Could we, for example, create a visual illusion of a Shyish rune to influence the behaviour of the Wind of Death.
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- Location
- Utrecht
Nothing you're saying here contradicts what i'm saying though. If Teclisian theory is correct, and Divine Magic is also a form Wind Magic (shaped by warp entities), then AV can be a form of Qhyash, or Qhyash can be the applied form of AV
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
I really think that we should take into account why they gave us the Elf-cation when trying to assess how much effort we should put into it. We found one dark elf and captured them alive. We had help, even, so it wasn't a capacity to do so solo that impressed them.
As long as we can beat a minimum standard of 'doesn't die to dark elves in a fight, helps more than they get in the way' they're not going to kick us out. The Shadow Warriors of Ulthuan are practically pariahs in the other kingdoms, and they're not going to turn away competent allies because they happen to have only been training for a decade or two. At worst they might prefer to have us fight in the back row with the other elves who haven't been sword fighting for centuries (the younger warriors are the archers, if I recall correctly, to keep them out of harm's way), but as we're a wizard that's not in any way the same as being sidelined.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/They
AV cannot be a form of Qhaysh. Qhaysh is eight winds. AV is undifferentiated warpstuff, that can be (but isn't yet) split into eight winds. This has been said repeatedly.
Until we trapped the asp in the box, undifferentiated warpstuff had never existed in the material world. Certainly not since the existence of the polar vortex. As such, AV is necessarily unrelated to every other form of magic in existence except possibly dwarven runes and possibly Slann magic, because those are the only forms of magic still in existence that predate the forming of the polar vortex and the existence of the eight winds.
I really wish people would stop drawing this AV-Qhaysh equivalency and treating it as if it's even possibly a thing. It's not.
(Granted, having AV on hand and splitting it is a great way to get a large, equal amount of all eight winds, which is handy for Qhaysh casters. But the AV in its current state has no bearing on Qhaysh, and won't until some Qhaysh caster gets their hands on it and does some research of their own.)
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I don't think that the people arguing for more skills before we go to Naggarythe are worried we'll be kicked out for not meeting the bar; the idea, as far as I can tell from reading @Redshirt Army and others who have been advocating for the "prep first" approach, is to view it as an opportunity to impress them and possibly parlay our ninety-nine days there into more contacts, more resources, and more knowledge -- especially if we flip Ranald's Coin to the Protector right before going. Hence the term "elfternship" getting thrown around as an alternative to "elfcation" -- not just a vacation where we go there to blow off steam and maybe pick up a few tricks, but an internship where we can walk away with some solid letters of recommendation for new opportunities down the line.
Thank you for explaining it that way, I'm not super up on the metaphysics and so I hadn't understood the difference before.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Elven militia goes: learn to fight with sword and bow ---> Archer for a decade ---> Hawkeye if you're particularly talented or Spearelf if you're not. Serve in this position until end of service. Then, when you're reinducted in thirty years or whatever, you might go through the whole cycle again, or you might skip parts of the cycle, or you might become a Sentinel.
You're saying we should pick up a rifle then.
If we're going to revisit all the old arguments, why not this one too?
kfrar
Aspiring Encyclopedia
@picklepikkl covered most of what I was going to say, but to add onto that - it's not like we'd really be going out of our way to tame our Arcane Marks, learn Branulhune style, of become Lady Magister, either, since those are all things on the todo list anyway. I suppose we could go without ever bringing our Arcane Marks to heel (though I definitely want to on a personal level, feels unprofessional otherwise), but the other two we definitely all want to get. So why not get them before we visit the Elves, when there are significant potential benefits of doing so?
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
Do you really think they're going to take a Magic Seven Wizard (eight, if we get our staff) with Master Swordsmanship and an enchanted greatsword and tell her 'well, you were pretty great, thanks for coming, don't come back' if we don't blow it out of the park? The way you build up the fastest amount of elf reputation is by being around them and doing things. Three solid B missions are worth a lot more than a single 100%, and they have the benefit that you actually got to play three missions, rather than obsessively preparing for one.
If we take the same amount of time to reach the level of mastery we'd prefer either way, but one is spent preparing at home to make a good impression and the other is learning on the job while getting things done, one will always sound more entertaining to me. I'm fine with self-improvement actions, but I'm not okay with boring choices anymore, and that's what this compulsion to grind feels like it's becoming.
I'm wondering more about the use of runes to control other Winds. Could we, for example, create a visual illusion of a Shyish rune to influence the behaviour of the Wind of Death.
Not in any way. Teclisian Theory incorporates divine magic because it's a theoretical framework that's bigger than just the Winds, including how mortal casters shape Aethyrical energy directly from the Aethyr through their souls into divine magic spells by, say, performing archetypes called gods that are currents/winds in the Aethyr (note, not the Winds of Magic in the physical world) how the transformed Aethyrical energy of the Winds that is absorbed by the physical elements can be manipulated in the form of Earthbound magic, as Teclis taught the Thaumaturgical Alchemists of the early Gold College, and how the Winds of Magic can be channeled through mortal souls into arcane spells.
These are all, based on what Realms of Sorcery says, part of what Teclis taught the Colleges.
Nothing in that has any connection with saying that Divine Magic is a form of Wind Magic or that AV is a form of Qhaysh. Teclisian Theory fully incorporates the possibility that AV is the raw energy of the Aethyr; the precursor from which all the Winds are formed before it reacts with reality to form them. That's part of Teclisian Theory.
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