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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Andres110 said:
So this idea is crack but I should mention that there are Divine Rituals to summon Divine Servants, and those servants include miracle-working mortals who passed on. If we want the aid of a daemon prince of Ranald, we don't need to ascend as one, just summon one.
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But we're not dead yet.
 
Andres110 said:
So this idea is crack but I should mention that there are Divine Rituals to summon Divine Servants, and those servants include miracle-working mortals who passed on. If we want the aid of a daemon prince of Ranald, we don't need to ascend as one, just summon one.
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I didn't actually realize that. Although that raises the question if Ranald has daemon princes. Which I'm not sure if he would or not.
 
Andres110 said:
The closest I can think of is a Lore of Shadows spell in Storm of Magic that lets you retroactively have made illusions.
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I more meant the way that a ship in the warp can arrive at it's destination years before it left, and how Slaanessh sort of technically existed before they were even born, retroactively.

Also, wasn't there an Ork who met a past version of themselves and killed them so they could have two copies of their favorite gun?

If the Realm of Gods is timeless, like the Warp is, then a future version of us who became a Daemon could be summoned by someone from the present. Theoretically. I think.
 
King Arthur said:
I more meant the way that a ship in the warp can arrive at it's destination years before it left, and how Slaanessh sort of technically existed before they were even born, retroactively.

Also, wasn't there an Ork who met a past version of themselves and killed them so they could have two copies of their favorite gun?

If the Realm of Gods is timeless, like the Warp is, then a future version of us who became a Daemon could be summoned by someone from the present. Theoretically. I think.
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Well, I'm not entirely sure of this, and it might be noncanon. But if I recall correctly the warp of 40k and the warp of WHF are connected, so theoretically it should be possible to time travel.
 
King Arthur said:
I more meant the way that a ship in the warp can arrive at it's destination years before it left, and how Slaanessh sort of technically existed before they were even born, retroactively.
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Yeah, and the closest thing to that is the spell I mentioned. There's just precious little in Fantasy that has anything to do with time travel.
 
Derpmind said:
I don't know if I'd advocate for the Sith approach. Remember that Mathilde's largest increase in power came during the pre-K8P expedition turns, where we caught up on our neglected magic education and crunched to get those mountain-retaking skills. Dedicated study outside conflict can be just as valuable as the spoils of war. Plus, we've got... 12 unstudied Skaven artifacts, including 3 from Eshin. We don't need any more.
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It wasn't quite the Sith approach I had in mind, only that we need a severe situation for Mathilde to stop worrying about the longtime consequences and unleash her full power.

She already knows the spells, we just need to get her to perform them...
 
Omegahugger said:
It wasn't quite the Sith approach I had in mind, only that we need a severe situation for Mathilde to stop worrying about the longtime consequences and unleash her full power.

She already knows the spells, we just need to get her to perform them...
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It's hard to imagine a situation in which Mathilde is pushed enough to resort to Dhar, to be honest. A Waaagh of a million greenskins was more of a one-day affair and I don't think they got past the Citadel when we literally left the door open for them.
 
Karugus said:
The fear of the Dragon coming through the tunnels is more than a bit baffling. He slaughtered the Skaven that way because he appeared right in the interior of the faction with the heavy artillery, and then the Skaven proceeded to start killing each other and focus on fleeing from the Dragon instead of fortifying chokepoints against the Dragon with heavy artillery.

We know the Dragon wasn't digging new paths, it just was following paths large enough for it, is anyone seriously going to argue the Dwarfs don't know all the paths large enough for a Dragon to fit through from Karag Yar to the rest of 8-Peaks, and fortify it with dragon killing artillery in an environment where it's mobility is crippled.

We literally insisted on pulling out the unreliable battle magic because we didn't think the masters of artillery, fortification, and underground combat could create a limited amount of underground fortified chokepoints that took advantage a massive enemy denied most of it's agility. It's daft- I hope it works as well as we hope and get's appreciation, but I doubt it.
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Personally, I think it's got some utility even beyond fighting a dragon. Transformation of Kadon is not a weak spell by any means, and being able to turn one of your troops into a fucking dragon for a while could be extremely useful against any enemy. And if the enemy is trying to dispel your Transformation of Kadon, they're not trying to dispel the Eye of Gazul...
 
SaltyWaffles said:
Personally, I think it's got some utility even beyond fighting a dragon. Transformation of Kadon is not a weak spell by any means, and being able to turn one of your troops into a fucking dragon for a while could be extremely useful against any enemy. And if the enemy is trying to dispel your Transformation of Kadon, they're not trying to dispel the Eye of Gazul...
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The best part is that even if they do succeed in dispelling the transformation--assuming they're stupid enough to try--it's only a marginal loss in that we don't actually lose the dragon, and just have to figure out a way to turn them back after the battle is concluded. Plus, you know, it's something that can be used offensively as well as defensively, unlike our Tower.
 
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Lunch at 'Luodwica's
  • Apocrypha
    • Lunch at 'Luodwica's​

    "Sorry," Panoramia said, hands busy rubbing circles into her temples. "I don't quite get it. Can you repeat everything and explain again why I—"

    Beside her, Wolf barked once.

    "—We are here," the Jade Wizard continued without missing a beat, before turning to her lupine companion. "Sorry Wolf."

    Wolf chuffed in response.

    Here was a well-appointed meeting/dining room in the squat wood and stone building which served as the headquarters of the Halflings of Karak Eight Peaks (formal name pending): the Stout Hearth. So named for its sturdy construction and the Family name of its foremost resident, Master Baker Hluodwica Stoutheart, Elder of the Halflings, Priestess of Esmeralda, and holder of the Second Worst Naming Sense in the entire Karak.

    Across from the well-laden table before which Panoramia and Wolf sat, said elder drank deeply from her tankard before replying. "I worked up quite the thirst from that earlier explanation. Why don't you handle this one, Mugging?" Hluodwica said, turning to the halfling to her left, who shot her a dark look at the nickname.

    Titus Muggins sighed a sigh of longsuffering, put down his own tankard which he had just raised to drink from, and sighed again.

    "To summarize what Loudy Stoutheart here was saying," Titus began, nonchalantly dodging a thrown apple from the fuming priestess to his right. "Is that the halfling cook who has been the chef at your Wizard meetings, and the formal contact for our polity in the human Karak, is retiring."

    Another dodge, this time a cleanly gnawed bone from Wolf, resulting in the wolf yipping happily before being nailed in the nose by an expertly flicked canape. The halfling marshal continued. "There will be a competition to decide his successor, and we want you to supply some foodstuffs and serve as a judge alongside Wolf over there."

    Panoramia groaned, and not just because she was full to bursting, nor because of the slowly escalating food war between the table's three other occupants.

    "I can get being a judge—I'm the one who asked Marty to be our caterer in the first place—but what's this about foodstuff? And why is Wolf also a judge?"

    "I can answer that!" Hluodwica cried, voice partially muffled by the massive plate she had raised in front of her as a shield. A pastry of some sort arced upward from behind the shield towards Titus, before being deflected towards Wolf by a tossed soup bowl from the Fieldwarden. "I have a theory that magically enhanced food is good for wizards, and what better way to test that than by using it in this competition, with your permission of course.'

    "So you mean to make me a test subject," Panoramia snarked at the halfling elder. Silence was the answer, punctuated by a barrage of bones from Wolf clattering all over the place

    "As for Wolf," Titus Muggins continued, downing the last of his tankard in time for a tomato to splat on the bottom. "the elder feels that with the addition of the We into the Karak's population, learning to cook for non-standard beings would perhaps be a good idea."

    Panoramia groaned again, before letting her head fall into her hands, just in time to dodge a pumpkin sailing through where it had been.

    Wolf barked from beneath the table at Titus and Hluodwica.

    "The name of the competition?" Panoramia translated dutifully. Elder Hluodwica lowered her shield to grin in the wizard's direction, glee unaffected by the latter's despondency or the sauce dripping down from her hair into her face. She began to speak, puffing herself up in preparation for a magnificent announcement. "It's—!"

    "Magister Chef."​

    Only to be interrupted by a smug Titus, dabbing his lips with the napkin tied around his neck. "She's still rather put out that King Belegar rejected her Ironhammer Chef idea, hence the name," he continued, steadfastly ignoring the elder's indignation or the pair of chicken legs that had found their way into her hands.

    With a battle cry, Hluodwica launched herself at the still-untouched halfling marshal, tackling him to the ground, chicken legs flailing madly.

    Panoramia groaned into her hands one last time, before standing from the table. At her rising, Wolf crawled out from beneath the table, covered nose to tail in various sauces. Before leaving she turned to the brawling halflings. "We'll do it," she said, one hand picking out lettuce from Wolf's fur, the other still cradling her face. "Thanks for the lunch."

    The two halflings on the ground paused in their squabble to look in the departing wizard's direction. "See you tomorrow!" cried Elder Hluodwica. Titus Muggins' own farewell was drowned out by the chicken leg the other had stuck in his mouth.

    Panoramia groaned harder. First the Wizards, now the Halflings, she thought. Would she have to hang out with the dwarfs to find some peace? Maybe that other Runelord is looking for a wizard of his own, I should go talk to him. Maybe I can even get a vacation in Karak Azul away from all this craziness.

    Wolf yipped happily beside the green wizard, dripping sauces as he went. Meal times with the other short two legs were always fun.

    This was supposed to be a semi-serious piece on the place of the halflings in Karak Eight Peaks, and how they leverage food to their advantage in diplomacy with the other groups, mostly the humans. Got to make nice with the other eggs in the nest, so to speak. Not sure why it became what it is, but I'm happy I finally got something written, breaking the block which has kept me from writing for the first half of the year. Hopefully with this out of the way, I can start working on the more serious ideas I brainstormed during the hiatus.
     
  • Apocrypha
    • Ericwinter said:
    The best part is that even if they do succeed in dispelling the transformation--assuming they're stupid enough to try--it's only a marginal loss in that we don't actually lose the dragon, and just have to figure out a way to turn them back after the battle is concluded. Plus, you know, it's something that can be used offensively as well as defensively, unlike our Tower.
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    I understand your idea, but calling the death of a person a marginal loss seems a bit off. Remember many people would consider being turned into a dragon forever worse than death. Just dismissing that part seems in poor taste. To me the dragon alter is going to be used for suicide missions.
     
    Neshuakadal said:
    I understand your idea, but calling the death of a person a marginal loss seems a bit off. Remember many people would consider being turned into a dragon forever worse than death. Just dismissing that part seems in poor taste. To me the dragon alter is going to be used for suicide missions.
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    To me, everything that involves regular soldiers attacking a dragon qualifies as a suicide mission. Not just the ones using the Altar, but also the ones pelting the dragon with cannonfire, as there's a good chance they're still within its range.
     
    Neshuakadal said:
    I understand your idea, but calling the death of a person a marginal loss seems a bit off. Remember many people would consider being turned into a dragon forever worse than death. Just dismissing that part seems in poor taste. To me the dragon alter is going to be used for suicide missions.
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    When you're facing a dragon, let alone an Emperor Dragon who is a master of Hysh, one non-mage, non-Thane-or-higher, non-Runelord person is a marginal loss. Remember, the Ice Dragon easily slaughtered an entire Karag full of skaven and had zero wounds to show for it.

    And being turned into a dragon forever kind of sucks, but not that much, especially if you can designate volunteers ahead of time who know about this risk and can accept it. Plus, well, consider the fact that if we're ever at a point where we need to use the altar, everyone fighting to defend the Karak is in serious danger anyway.

    And hell, when a soldier goes out to fight against greenskins or skaven, they know there's a serious risk of dying. For a person using the dragon altar, the risk is also of dying, but also of being stuck as a dragon forever. Except that if you're stuck as a dragon forever, you still retain your sapience, you can still speak, and you're still in a community that cares about you and interacts with you. It's not good, but anyone who thinks of being stuck as a dragon forever as a fate worse than death can just...not volunteer.
     
    Neshuakadal said:
    I understand your idea, but calling the death of a person a marginal loss seems a bit off. Remember many people would consider being turned into a dragon forever worse than death. Just dismissing that part seems in poor taste. To me the dragon alter is going to be used for suicide missions.
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    Marginal loss in that one life compared to however many thousands would be lost if said dragon was no longer around dealing damage is, by any military standard and even a good amount of moral ones, very much so considered worth it. Not that the one life lost is any less tragic, but it is still a much lesser thing, especially since if the dispel did, infact, turn them back into a human in the middle of whatever fight called for a dragon-level combatant, they're probably dead anyways. OF course, you were comparing it to dispelling the eye, which is also a much smaller cost, since anything that would require the eye would again probably take thousands of lives. What really makes it "marginal" for me, however, is that while there is no proof of the dragon ever being able to change back, there is also no proof that no attempts can be made to do so. It is still very possible for someone trapped in a dragon's body to eventually recover their human body, and thus I can't even count that one life as a true loss. More MIA than KIA, really, especially when Mathilde would probably do everything in her power to fix said loss.
    Basically, I in no way meant to dismiss or devalue the cost of a dispelled transformation, only point out that one life is, by any metric, a smaller loss than several thousand. Not necessarily better--I would prefer zero loss of life, all told--but smaller. As for it being best used on suicide missions... ehhh, that's debatable, considering the very nature of a dispelled transformation only ending in permanent dragon makes that danger almost non-existent. Like, yes, techincally it's possible, but would literally take self-sabotage for zero gain, an absolute idiot, or the most spiteful person in existence.
     
    King Arthur said:
    Us from the future.

    Is time travel via the realm of the gods a thing in Fantasy, or is that 40K only?
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    Daemon Hunter said:
    Clearly we must make it a thing, ascend to become a daemon princess, go back in time and do whatever it is that was initially planned since I've forgotten what that was. Hopefully Mathilde remembers better than I.
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    #NoSpoilers from those of you who have read ahead in the MAGDA WESSEN: DAEMON PRINCESS series...
     
    Obviously just have only Slayers use it, and if they become stuck as a dragon then that just means their Doom will be truly glorious.

    Imagine a Slayer Dragon, out there hunting down whole armies of evil doers, looking for the ultimate DOOM.
     
    King Arthur said:
    Obviously just have only Slayers use it, and if they become stuck as a dragon then that just means their Doom will be truly glorious.

    Imagine a Slayer Dragon, out there hunting down whole armies of evil doers, looking for the ultimate DOOM.
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    There are many reasons that wont work, not the least of which being that dwarves are both resistant to magic, and even if they weren't, it would literally turn them to stone. Unless, of course, some crazy human decided to take the Slayer oath, which... might be a thing, given we've had at least a few humans converting to the Ancestor Gods.
     
    Ericwinter said:
    There are many reasons that wont work, not the least of which being that dwarves are both resistant to magic, and even if they weren't, it would literally turn them to stone. Unless, of course, some crazy human decided to take the Slayer oath, which... might be a thing, given we've had at least a few humans converting to the Ancestor Gods.
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    We did also get a dwarven therapist to make sure we didn't go the human equivalent of a slayer way back when.
     
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