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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Jyn Ryvia said:
Not going to happen,
A) we don't have enough dwarves to fill K8P for several life times, Dwarf lifetimes. Let alone another hold

B) that's not King-Bro's hold, as long as there is someone who can claim ownership of it and there is no grudge. He has no right to take it. Only help take it if their is a campaign.
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This would be the time for them to take it, however, if they do plan on taking it. If they do take it, it would become one of the safest holds.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
Not going to happen,
A) we don't have enough dwarves to fill K8P for several life times, Dwarf lifetimes. Let alone another hold

B) that's not King-Bro's hold, as long as there is someone who can claim ownership of it and there is no grudge. He has no right to take it. Only help take it if their is a campaign.
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His point was about helping other reconquest efforts.
 
chocolote12 said:
I'm sure that if there were any legitimately substantial force of trolls left in either mountain that would be a real issue, but the rangers know where the trolls are, and there's maybe a couple dozen of them in an area the size of a city. They're wild animals, it's not going to matter.
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...and now I'm confused again. I thought the discussion was about the Besiegers fighting trolls. Nevermind.
Rangers are good. They have axes and mobility. That's almost as good as Slayers.
 
uju32 said:
No more than dwarves go into a funk when someone else settles a Grudge for them. See Alkatraz.
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Not contradicting what you were saying, just clarifying on this specific bit. Dwarves like it when they settle Grudges, when a Dwarf Friend settles a Grudge, or when a dwarf-fashioned weapon settles a Grudge even if not wielded by a dwarf or Dwarf Friend. If an enemy of theirs is killed otherwise with no chance for the dwarfs (or dwarf affiliates/items) to ever wreak Vengeance on that enemy, the dwarves do get into a funk.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
Not going to happen,
A) we don't have enough dwarves to fill K8P for several life times, Dwarf lifetimes. Let alone another hold

B) that's not King-Bro's hold, as long as there is someone who can claim ownership of it and there is no grudge. He has no right to take it. Only help take it if their is a campaign.
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I can see Thorgrim deciding it's a good time to clear Drahz, retaking it or not, and surely some clan or another has a good claim to it, enough to populate and hold it, with a bit of help.
 
MooseHowl said:
This seems like the worst matchup imaginable.
Fighting trolls in heavy armour is suicide. They projectile vomit acid. It soaks in, burns you underneath, and is impossible to get off because armor doesn't come with a quick release. You leave a half melted corpse and worthless corroded metal for you descendants to inherit.
Even Dwarves know to avoid wearing armor around trolls, never stand still, and chop away at them with axes instead of pestering them with crossbows.
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Crossbows are expressly the doctrine dwarves prefer to use for fighting trolls when Slayers aren't around:
BoneyM said:
Throwing relatively unskilled melee infantry at Trolls achieves nothing but fatter Trolls. It will be a job for crossbows.
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The thing you're missing is that the trolls aren't in a group. There's a few dozen of them spread out in ones and twos over an entire mountain, with a couple of packs up to five; there's a thousand Besiegers. Break them into companies and have them sweep the mountain. A single volley of 100 expert crossbows is going to deal with one or two trolls just fine. If the trolls ever get into vomit range of a Besieger, something has gone very wrong.

Like, the Karak Azul Throng would do an amazing job dealing with them too, but a Throng of ten thousand is huge, huge overkill for under a hundred trolls.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
That's, the repeatedly said, problem.

They don't have the population. They can't even fill the main hold.
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Yeah, but the clan won't care about that, all they want is their ancestral home back.
We put in a EIC office, hire a few mercs, invite a couple wizards, build another murder tower and teach them the way of Kazador, time will do the rest.
 
picklepikkl said:
Crossbows are expressly the doctrine dwarves prefer to use for fighting trolls when Slayers aren't around:
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Though, on that note, @BoneyM When Belegar wanted stuff to handle Trolls, he asked Dreng to get handguns, of which we got 1,400+ from Karak Hirn thanks to Ulthar. Were they issued to the Izor Immigrants or Clan Huzkul? Since they were acquired for the task, they seem like what we'd want to send to clear out the rest of Karag Rhyn if they're available.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
That's, the repeatedly said, problem.

They don't have the population. They can't even fill the main hold.
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We don't need Karak Drazh to be filled, we need it to be taken and held.
That would make us much safer from greenskin attacks, and would make us richer from increased trade road traffic.

We could literally build Doom towers on both openings of Death Pass, and defend the entire Pass from any incoming Waaagh with this one simple trick.
We could do that to Blackfire Pass too, now that I think of it. I'm sure the Empire would appreciate.
 
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picklepikkl said:
Crossbows are expressly the doctrine dwarves prefer to use for fighting trolls when Slayers aren't around:

The thing you're missing is that the trolls aren't in a group. There's a few dozen of them spread out in ones and twos over an entire mountain, with a couple of packs up to five; there's a thousand Besiegers. Break them into companies and have them sweep the mountain. A single volley of 100 expert crossbows is going to deal with one or two trolls just fine. If the trolls ever get into vomit range of a Besieger, something has gone very wrong.

Like, the Karak Azul Throng would do an amazing job dealing with them too, but a Throng of ten thousand is huge, huge overkill for under a hundred trolls.
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Oh. I missed that post from Boney.
I was basing it off the encounter in the battle of Karag Lhune.
BoneyM said:
On the heels of the Slayers are you and Clan Angrund, and you draw to a halt at the sight that greets you. Hundreds of Trolls gathered in the abattoir that the King's Gates entrance hall had become, feasting on a thousand slain Goblins; you call to mind the few glimpses you got of the pit underneath the false floor, and realize it must have been an entrance of its own to a vast network of Troll-infested caves. You try not to imagine what would have happened if Clan Angrund had charged in first, expecting Goblins rather than Trolls. You've heard stories of what Troll vomit does to a heavily armoured victim, when steel that should have protected instead traps the terrible acids against the skin. The carnage would have been terrible.

Not that the events unfolding before you are much better.

A Slayer goes into battle unarmoured - Hell, damn near unclothed - and while this so often leads them to the deaths they seek, it is entirely an advantage against Trolls, with slow reactions and slower minds. Geysers of stomach acid are nimbly sidestepped around and axes bite deep into stomachs to spill out their most disgusting weapon, then ankles until the Troll falls, then spines or throats to finish the beast, and the Slayer moves on to the next. Hundreds of them lose their lives, not because they can't avoid an attack but because they choose instead to drive home a crippling blow moments before their doom reaches them.
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Keeping far enough away until the trolls are pincushioned enough to behead is probably the best runner up plan with no Slayers, yeah.
 
Bracing for the massive glare of DISAPPROVAL from the slayer keep. The nerve of us slaying so many a troll when there's plenty of good slayers waiting to die. :mob:
 
MooseHowl said:
I was basing it off the encounter in the battle of Karag Lhune.
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Yeah... literal hundreds of trolls, in one giant group, is a battle there is zero way to win without heavy casualties unless you have a massive amount of artillery (Bright Wizards count) and are all the fuck away over there -- which is why Slayers were the way to go in that fight, because Slayers are expressly a suicide attack. Small numbers of trolls are much less threatening because you can shoot each one down from a safe distance and reload before hunting the next one, giving you a zero-casualty strat as long as you only engage small groups -- the pikes the Undumgi had were also a good way of dealing with isolated trolls, because the reach of pikes and discipline of the Undumgi gives you the upper hand against what is essentially a large animal in melee combat.
ADarkerPorpoise said:
Bracing for the massive glare of DISAPPROVAL from the slayer keep. The nerve of us slaying so many a troll when there's plenty of good slayers waiting to die. :mob:
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Can't hear you over the sound of all the grudges we're blotting out~
 
Quest said:
Do you want the dragon to add Johann to it's hoard?
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soulcake said:
Are you shipping the gold wizard and the dragon now too?

Outstanding move.
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The weird thing is that I could actually see the weirdest ship in this vein. He's excessively rare, magical, capable of talking, and in his "I am gold now" way, he may no longer age.

Redshirt Army said:
It makes more sense if you look at it as the opposite of Ulgu. Where Ulgu is confusion and uncertainty, Hysh is inspiration and certainty. Where Ulgu is ephemeral mist and wind, Hysh is solid stone.
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There's more symbolism here, such as how solid stone casts the deepest shadows, and how someone bludgeoned with a rock is left confused.
It is... interesting.
 
picklepikkl said:
Yeah... literal hundreds of trolls, in one giant group, is a battle there is zero way to win without heavy casualties unless you have a massive amount of artillery (Bright Wizards count) and are all the fuck away over there -- which is why Slayers were the way to go in that fight, because Slayers are expressly a suicide attack. Small numbers of trolls are much less threatening because you can shoot each one down from a safe distance and reload before hunting the next one, giving you a zero-casualty strat as long as you only engage small groups -- the pikes the Undumgi had were also a good way of dealing with isolated trolls, because the reach of pikes and discipline of the Undumgi gives you the upper hand against what is essentially a large animal in melee combat.
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I'm probably confusing Warhammer Trolls with some other media's version, anyway. Something where 'shooting them' as a strategy is always prefaced by 'don't bother'.
Or maybe I'm thinking of rock trolls or warpstone trolls or something.
There's too many freaking types of trolls.
 
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