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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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TaliesinSkye said:
She owns a copy of WHAT?! And she READ IT?! And she's not crazy?!

What sort of a scheme does the QM have going here?
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Paranoid Player: "We are housing with the next coming of Frederic Van Hall or Mannfred von Carstein. Maybe Nagash, if we are really unlucky. She probably came here for warp stone in troll mountain. She is the actual secret boss - If we do not do something, K8P is going to explode with several million orcs behind our front lines."

And less paranoid players say something about Matty's not necessary being a necromancer but needing to keep her happy lest she actually becomes one with catastrophic results for everyone involved.
 
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Mopman43 said:
It's either some kind of Ulgu-Wielding Runic Golem, or Dwarf Ghost Hammerers.
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I mean Boney seems to be saying that there isn't really a possibility of Dwarf Ghosts. Can't remember the actual quote but it was when someone was asking if Belegar had access to the ancestor spirits like in TW:Warhammer. Rune Golem seems much more likely to me given that it seems to avoid killing dwarfs, and if it's old enough, it might have a runic anti-troll field that kept things away from Mhonar
 
NukeDaSun said:
People seem to be worried about Belegar feeling inadequate over this whole deal, but honestlly, it's more dumb luck (Praise Ranald) than anything else that's let us do this whole thing. Without the gasses and whatever the hell Skyre did to wake up the Dragon, and everybody freaking out at the same damn time, along with what I can only assume is a Rune Golem in Mhonar deciding that now was a good time for walkabouts, there isn't really anything that we could do here that Belegar wouldn't have done if he had been in command. Securing our fronts, taking advantage of situations as they come up and blitzing when enemies are in dissarray is a tad fast moving maybe for dwarves, but would have been brought up by us regardless. While I get that feelings aren't always the most rational things, feeling inadequate over this when it was a bunch of coincidences colliding in a six-lane pileup of fate doesn't really make sense. At least I hope he can accept that, because if he continues to feel inadequate over this then it's gonna be time to find a dwarf therapist of some kind cause he needs someone to help with those issues.
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Sure, it was a huge helping of dumb luck, but we also seized and exploited opportunities in a very un-dwarfy way that probably would have gone undone if we were not in strategic command, and I can imagine Belegar feeling bad about that.

...tangentially, I'm really glad we called for help from KaK. Imagine the colossal arrogance we'd have projected if we hadn't. This way it is much more convincing for us to go "look, it was a huge insane emergency, I was as careful as I could be, but I took the opportunities I had and then everything worked out because our enemies insisted on murdering each other."
NukeDaSun said:
I mean Boney seems to be saying that there isn't really a possibility of Dwarf Ghosts. Can't remember the actual quote but it was when someone was asking if Belegar had access to the ancestor spirits like in TW:Warhammer. Rune Golem seems much more likely to me given that it seems to avoid killing dwarfs, and if it's old enough, it might have a runic anti-troll field that kept things away from Mhonar
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Boney said that there was no lore justification for weaponized dwarf ghosts. "Just some restless dead continuing to fight their battles from life" wasn't ruled out.
 
picklepikkl said:
Honestly, I've just got... no fucking idea what we do with our Queekish project from here.

Like, I guess we could Deceiver Qrech next turn and be like "we need to wipe out Mors, teach us Queekish!" But to be honest, I don't really see the point. It's not like it's going to be super valuable to us any time soon, given the almost complete eradication of the skaven within K8P.

My thinking is that next turn we just build rapport with Qrech, write the dictionary, and call the project done. We have other things to spend our AP and Coin on.
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There's still rewarding work to be done if the thread's willing to milk it.
-Deepening Mathilde's understanding of Skaven, improving her tactics bonus against them and learning more about the society of the Under-empire and skaven in general. There is also the diplomacy score increase to patch up a weakness.
-Calling in linguistics experts, to bring the quality of the dictionaries to a higher academic standard.
-Ask to be taught Queekish through the Deceiver ("I have an illusion spell to disguise myself and my voice, I want to feed false information to Mors."), and even if Mathilde can't speak it she can add a pronunciation guide to some of the symbols.
-Play the Deceiver coin for all it's worth. ("The Great Clans will cease to slay Mors once the council passes down it's ruling. I am not so limited. Your help will aid me continue to exterminate Mors long after the civil war has concluded.")("My god has seen fate unfold, and through him I prophesize that you will suffer undeserved eternal suffering at the hand of your god, but mine is willing to offer you safety, at a small price.")
 
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Future Mathilde: "If you're referring to the incident with the Dragon, I was barely involved. All I did was give it a little nudge out the door."
 
picklepikkl said:
I am legitimately worried about this. Not just that we succeeded so hard, but that he might go "if I had been in command, this would not have worked out as well as it did, because I would have made the wrong call."
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Not really.
No more than dwarves go into a funk when someone else settles a Grudge for them. See Alkatraz.

This entire thing IS the result of several decades of investment on his part. The diplomacy with man halfling and dwarf to assemble this army, the stewardship necessary to afford an army this size and well equipped, the vision necessary to consider alternate tactical arrangements and a diverse command staff, and to listen to them. Even the patience not to immediately yolo into one of several enemies, but to bide his time.

Sure Mathilde went out and with a lot of luck has managed to thread the needle thus far.
But make no mistake: Belegar built the weapon Matty is wielding. I think all in all, that will be enough.

I suspect this might even help with the moral quandary of his decision to play the skaven off each other.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
I'm inclined to agree on waiting to talk, but at the same time I worry there's a risk that waiting will make it too late and it'll have moved on to attacking us, especially if we enter its mountain to clear out the remaining Skaven.
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Dragons gets tired too.

Cordoning Yar makes it more likely to attack - so if You want to decrease chance of avoid dragon attack, that is out. We can try to speak, but doing it during all-out three-way chaotic melee, is frankly not a good decision. It's better to wait, and attract dragon attention once he finishes murdering skavens.

Also, as I mentioned, dragons gets tired too. Tired dragon is less likely to attack. Tired dragon is also easier to deal with if it choses to attack.
 
NukeDaSun said:
People seem to be worried about Belegar feeling inadequate over this whole deal, but honestlly, it's more dumb luck (Praise Ranald) than anything else that's let us do this whole thing. Without the gasses and whatever the hell Skyre did to wake up the Dragon, and everybody freaking out at the same damn time, along with what I can only assume is a Rune Golem in Mhonar deciding that now was a good time for walkabouts, there isn't really anything that we could do here that Belegar wouldn't have done if he had been in command. Securing our fronts, taking advantage of situations as they come up and blitzing when enemies are in dissarray is a tad fast moving maybe for dwarves, but would have been brought up by us regardless. While I get that feelings aren't always the most rational things, feeling inadequate over this when it was a bunch of coincidences colliding in a six-lane pileup of fate doesn't really make sense. At least I hope he can accept that, because if he continues to feel inadequate over this then it's gonna be time to find a dwarf therapist of some kind cause he needs someone to help with those issues.
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First off: holy shit we are lucky suns of guns.

as for your post, as lucky as we have been, we have also been ruthlessly exploiting each and every hole our luck has given us, and taken actions to ensure that our enemies could continue to fuck themselves.

So yes, we have been very lucky this war turn, but we have also been making the right choices too.
 
[X] YAR: Fortify and garrison all entrances to the mountain.
- [X] Clan Angrund, Throng of Karak Azul, Karak Izor Immigrants
- [X] Mathilde
[X] RHYN: Assault the Trolls now.
[X] ZILFIN: Assault the mountain to slay any surviving Skaven.
 
Reliable_2IC said:
There's still rewarding work to be done if the thread's willing to milk it.
-Deepening Mathilde's understanding of Skaven, improving her tactics bonus against them and learning more about the society of the Under-empire and skaven in general. There is also the diplomacy score increase to patch up a weakness.
-Calling in linguistics experts, to bring the quality of the dictionaries to a higher academic standard.
-Ask to be taught Queekish through the Deceiver ("I have an illusion spell to disguise myself and my voice, I want to feed false information to Mors."), and even if Mathilde can't speak it she can add a pronunciation guide to some of the symbols.
-Play the Deceiver coin for all it's worth. ("The Great Clans will cease to slay Mors once the council passes down it's ruling. I am not so limited. Your help will aid me continue to exterminate Mors long after the civil war has concluded.")("I forsee undeserved eternal suffering in the future at the hand of your god, but mine is willing to offer you safety, at a small price.")
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We can only tell lies.:V

More seriously I don't think Qrexh is very devout. Look at his reaction to the idea of the Horned Rat interfering to save Mors and Pestilens. I think he is more of a proto-nationalist rather then a religious zealot.
 
Some thoughts on Zilfin...
- The Dragon is super goddamn pissed at the Skaven. Killing Skaven is likely to ingratiate us with the Dragon.
- We also theorize that something Skryre did with their chemicals is why the dragon is so goddamn pissed.

Therefore:
[X] ZILFIN: Assault the mountain to slay any surviving Skaven.

We want to mop up everything left alive, use what magic we have to try and clear out the zones of toxic death, and do our best to be able to say "We made sure that pest-control problem of yours won't return" when the dragon comes back.

Now, on to Yar.

Mors and Eshin have been going to the knives for an hour. Both sides already routed once, then counterattacked. The musk of fear is already strong, and the Black Hunger is killing them. Having a giant fucking Ice Dragon barrel into the middle of their fight has the following possible outcomes:
  • 1: Skaven Total Rout, every rat for themselves. Dragon mops up; survivors scatter in every direction.
  • 2: Hasty alliance, Dragon Vs. Skaven.
    • 2A: The Skaven are exhausted, tangled in melee, and cannot organize a proper defense. Dragon Dominating Victory, survivors rout in a confused mass.
    • 2B: The Skaven truly unite, driven by the Black Hunger and their racial hatred for anything that isn't Skaven. A proper defense materializes. ~100,000 Skaven organized by Sleek Sharpwit with Mors discipline and Eshin sorcery pour everything they have into taking the dragon down.
      • Dragon Total Victory, all resistance smashed. Skaven rout, survivors scatter.
      • Dragon Major Victory, organized resistance smashed but dragon wounded. Dragon retreats, some clumps of organized retreat by Skaven.
      • Dragon decides these rats are annoying enough to not bother with, and retreats. Skaven go back to short knives. Pyrrhic Mors or Eshin victory.
      • Sleek crits, and the dragon goes down. Eshin and Mors go back to short knives over the corpse. Everybody Loses except us.
      • The Eshin Sorceror has more knowledge than usual for their kind, and summons a Vermin Lord in desperation. Everybody Loses, including us.
  • 3: Organized Retreat, every clan for themselves. Eshin fortifies their breeders; roughly 50,000 Mors Skaven filled with the Black Hunger flee towards position in the Caldera.
    • Dragon stays and assaults Eshin. We have to take all 50,000 of those Skaven alone.
      • Meanwhile, Dragon Vs. Eshin plays out like 2B above.
    • Dragon pursues. Not many of those 50,000 skaven make it to our Caldera defenses, but we may have to contend with SUDDENLY DRAGON.
  • 4: Three-is-peace; conflict jerks to a halt as both sides try and make themselves less vulnerable to the giant fucking dragon. Diplomacy is attempted.
    • Dragon doesn't talk or is unimpressed, Skaven die a lot. As 2.
    • Dragon is talked down or bribed off. Skaven go back to short knives. Skaven/Dragon Truce, Pyrrhic Mors or Eshin victory.
    • Dragon is willing to kill only one clan if sufficiently bribed. A bidding war ensues, then a very short fight. Dominating Mors or Eshin victory.
      • Dragon then betrays the living winners. Dragon Total Victory.
      • Dragon fucks off afterwards. Skaven/Dragon Truce.
      • Dragon is willing to continue their alliance with the winners. Skaven/Dragon Alliance.
      • The Eshin leader or Sleek Sharpwit pulls some serious bullshit and manages to stab a fucking dragon in the back. Total Mors/Eshin Victory, Dragon dead.
    • Skaven successfully blame everything on a third party.
      • Dragon leaves to go hunt orcs/trolls/anybody but us.
      • Dragon leaves to go hunt our forces.
      • Sleek or Eshin knows the details of our attack on Skryre and is able to convince the Dragon we're to blame. Dragon is personally pissed off at Mathilde.
Most of these outcomes involve fleeing Skaven survivors, and a few of them are sufficiently Bad Juju that we'll want some significant forces allocated to bottle any potential outbreak. The very worst outcomes are down to the dragon's attitude towards the Skaven. Therefore:
[X] YAR: Fortify and garrison all entrances to the mountain.
[X] YAR: Attempt to make contact with the dragon.

Unlike literally everybody else in the room, we have actually met a dragon (or at least a dragon rider) before. We should do this personally. So, approval-vote:
[X] YAR: Make no move until you've scouted the Karag Yar battle.
-[X] Personally.

Rhyn is unlikely to ever be a softer target than it is now. Anything that takes it will be something that can kill Trolls, and that probably means something smarter than them. Therefore, I further recommend:
[X] RHYN: Assault the Trolls now.
 
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picklepikkl said:
Sure, it was a huge helping of dumb luck, but we also seized and exploited opportunities in a very un-dwarfy way that probably would have gone undone if we were not in strategic command, and I can imagine Belegar feeling bad about that.
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If he does we could suggest that (as loremaster) arrange a set of tactical and strategic educators from multiple regions, so that he can learn more about all sorts of possible strategies? He's already willing to adopt unorthodox techniques, he could do well by learning more techniques so he can choose whatever best suits the situation.
 
Sinsystems said:
I'd imagine that in Belegar Quest the GM would temporarily switch perspectives as it would be a poor GM that does something this big off screen. Not sure exactly how that would work, but I'd imagine that at the very least it would be the first time they see some of our traits.
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MoneyB: "Shenanigans are occurring in the Karak this turn. Let's see if you have to handle it yourself, or if you have to come home and figure out what the hell happened while you were on a diplomatic visit."
[1-70 You're in command.]
[71-90 You're temporarily out of the Karak; Marshal Dreng is in command.]
[91-95 You and Dreng are both away, Skythane Gotri is in command.]
[96-97 You, Dreng and Gotri are all away, Loremaster Mathilde is in command.]
[98 High Priest Gunnar is in command.]
[99 Steward Edda is in command.]
[100 The entire council is simultaneously away by sheer fluke, Francesco Caravello rises to the occasion.]
[MoneyB rolled dice: 97.]

MoneyB's players: OH BOY OH BOY HUMAN WIZARD SHENANIGANS. I barely even care what happens, this is going to be fun.
MoneyB's players: Wait, crap, we're going to miss the Tower of Gazul being used, aren't we?
 
Quest said:
Remember, there are secret runic passages all throughout the Karak that we know nothing about.
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What's a runic passage? Something like a secret door operated by runes?

Incidentally, I wonder if it's possible a rune golem could have a rune on it that lets it just walk through solid rock. That'd explain moving between places and not being seen.
 
So I don't really care what we do, just please don't vote to attack/fortify 3 different mountains on the same turn.

Kazador's force is still okay, but the rangers, Angrund and Izor have been ranging/fighting for like 4 hours by this point. They could use a break.
HanEmpire said:
Can Mathilde become a living saint of the Ranald Cult, like the Empress? She's certainly screwed over enough rubes in His name.
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Its not like she meant for any of this to happen! It just happens!

Going to get a lot of mileage out of that mysterious wizard look though
SakSak said:
I just feel so sorry for Belegar.

"What is the point of reconquering a Karak when I am not doing it to settle grudges, but rather to create a future for dawi... except only way I am successful at it is by abandoning the ways and methods of my ancestors, just like I abandoned their grudges. And you cannot have a future if you are dead and so many who came with me have died already."
*Belebro leaves K8P for a week, and comes back to see it fully reconquered and his enemies dead*
"What is the point of being a dawi king, if an umgi half-beard (if she could grow one) achieves more for killing my enemies and reclaiming my homeland - in a week and with less casualties - than I could in a decade?"
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Remember she's 30, too, which in dwarf years is like an 18 year old.
 
[X] YAR: Make no move until you've scouted the Karag Yar battle.
-[X] Personally.
[X] RHYN: Assault the Trolls now.
[X] ZILFIN: Assault the mountain to slay any surviving Skaven.

I blame Ranald!
 
This whole affair has been more beneficial than I could possibly have imagined. My one real concern is that if we occupy most of the mountains, then it may spread our forces thin for the Whaaaag tomorrow, even with the super death tower.
 
By the way, big ups to @Deathbybunnies. A big reason why the skaven situation turned out as simple and low-risk "defeat them all in detail" as it did was their idea for a write-in:
Deathbybunnies said:
You know, if we're sending Rangers to the Caldera and to the Under-Citadel, we could ask them to keep an eye out for Skaven messengers running to tell the Warlord his back end's getting penetrated. @BoneyM is this completely unviable, something they'd do as a matter of course if the opportunity presented itself, or something we'd specifically have to write in? I'm not envisioning them taking big risks of exposing themselves to do this.
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I felt bad about changing a plan that already had a bunch of votes so late in the voting cycle to include it, but in hindsight I think this is one of the key things that caused the battle to go as well for us as it did. The under-Caldera forces did the sensible thing according to their doctrine and banked on a rescue that was never going to come; it's possible that if the messages had gotten through, Mors would not have reversed their rout and attacked Eshin the way they did and instead come to relieve the under-Caldera.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
What's a runic passage? Something like a secret door operated by runes?

Incidentally, I wonder if it's possible a rune golem could have a rune on it that lets it just walk through solid rock. That'd explain moving between places and not being seen.
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More like secret passages hidden by runes, but yes. Apparently, in canon Belegar spent several areas raiding and exploring K8P before his actual invasion to figure them out which he didn't do here.
ShyPerson said:
This whole affair has been more beneficial than I could possibly have imagined. My one real concern is that if we occupy most of the mountains, then it may spread our forces thin for the Whaaaag tomorrow, even with the super death tower.
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We can close up the entrances to the Caldera and funnel the Waaagh to the Citadel.
 
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