And the jades are still not doing their rituals in the town square, you get my drift?
Also I think there might be more shallyans then imperial wizards period... And certainly more then the light college...
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
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Also I think there might be more shallyans then imperial wizards period... And certainly more then the light college...
Somic
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Shallyans? Yes. Shallyans capable of channeling divine miracles? Definitely not. Which just means that the Shallyans who are coming will be extremely limited in what they can actually do to help with the plague.
No, they are doing it on the village fields where everyone has to eat from or they will starve. The magic will no less inevitably get inside those people. They understand about poisoning crops and wells which means that if they think magic is poison they will react appropriately.
A single wizard pulling Hysh out of Waystones can do the job of hundreds of Shaylans because they would be directly healing the illness which most Shalyans can't. There are more imperial wizards than there are Anointed Shayllans and they can heal to much greater scale especially with the proposed Waystone draw.
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Sure, never said otherwise. But again, I know who the townsfolk will accept much more readily.
And you are still not understanding that the people. Don't. Care.
They don't care it gets cured within days because magic is fucking scary and can explode randomly into daemons, raise the dead and turn your newborns into beastmen. This is all the same magic to the layperson.
And you seem to ignore me repeatedly saying that I'm willing to bet lots of jades still get chased away.
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We're talking about altdorf, baby. The one place in the empire where that's really not true.
They still might riot because it is altdorf and they do love riots there, granted.
They still might riot because it is altdorf and they do love riots there, granted.
That is because it does not matter how many jades were chased away, they are still doing it, it is still viable if you put enough resources, ergo the Hysh suggestion which would arguably be even more beneficial and show even more immediate results would as well.
@Boney since this is something we could actually look into IC what do Mathilde and Ergrim think of the suggestion of getting the Lights the ability to draw power from Waystones so deal with plague outbreaks? Would something make it nonviable either magically, like the complexity of the spell or socially the riots Tobtorp is proposing?
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Somic
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I have a sneaking suspicion that IC Mathilde's opinion on large-scale Light healing magic is gonna be heavily influenced by that one Light Magister who blew himself and a district up doing some large-scale magic and ended up being unavailable for healing...
I think she is more objective than that kind of knee-jerk reaction. Panoramia could have blown herself up casting tired during the battle for K8P, she warned her about it even, that does not means she wants to chase Pan off the fields.
Just start with Altdorf and have the Shallayans present to see and say that it works, and roll it out from their with clear backing from one of the most universally loved religious orders of the Empire. Yeah, it'll be slow at first, but eventually it'll be fast once a critical mass of people accept it.
NexusEye
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Even if you can draw massive amounts of Hysh from a Waystone I suspect that actually using that to cure lots of people would require using it to power a spell, probably high-level Battle Magic or Cataclysm Magic. Meanwhile with Ghyran you can just flood a field with lots of it without actually turning it into a spell and plants will thrive anyway due to its passive effects.
Somic
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...right, I forgot that Shallyans wouldn't even oppose it, they're all about healing and easing suffering in every way.
Using magic to cure people at a rate fast enough to actually put down a plague would either require significant amounts of wizards, or some high level magic, that would have a very real risk of being a bigger problem than the plague. Unless the plague is nurglish in nature, I can't see getting enough manpower for it, and that's only if the nurglish plague is even curable.
Most plagues even magical ones are curable with light magic, see our candle. It's only Nurgle's Rot which is so supernatural it's not.
And I'm saying only supernatural plagues would actually be able to either get the amount of manpower to cure the plague with pure numbers, or have people be willing to take the risk on a ritual that could backfire severely. A normal plague is bad, don't get me wrong, but the numbers just don't work out for having enough light wizards to cure it in any settlement larger than a couple hundred people, which given plagues are almost always the biggest problem in heavily populated areas, is not good.
Without working quarantine procedures, I'd doubt a single wizard, even one specialized in this, would be able to keep a couple hundred people healthy due to people getting reinfected
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Plagues, like normal non-demonic plagues have been some of the most destructive events in human history, not only in terms of the human cost but economically. If you can spare wizards to increase the farm yields you can spare them to make sure 20% of the city's workforce does not die this year.
Also by definition if the wizard can cure the plague on others they can cure it on themselves, they would be the ones least needing to worry. Just slap the spell on yourself as you are leaving for the day. There is no ritual here, like Pan and the fields it is a spell on their list.
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NuclearConsensus
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Given that it's Altdorf, multiple riots aren't out of the question I think. Anti-wizard riots, pro-wizard riots, pro-riot riots...
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
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...While we're on the subject, I can't help but think of our cactus fief. In theory they're quite fine with their local lord being a wizard, but upon thinking about it, the most they've ever seen of magic is probably Mathilde on her Shadowsteed. And Mathilde's a Dame, so that perhaps goes a long way to assuage their doubts. To them, she's their mostly-absent landlady, who just happens to be a wizard with a shadow-horse.
And some of the fief's money has been presumably going to a Jade Journeyman for the sheep breeding program. I have to imagine that as an extension of that, they went '...I guess if Dame Weber vouched for this wizard, they must be okay'.
So yes, I'd expect the Lights to need to shape those large amounts of Hysh into spells that can be scaled up, but then again, they already have their choirs so perhaps it wouldn't be that huge an obstacle for them?
And some of the fief's money has been presumably going to a Jade Journeyman for the sheep breeding program. I have to imagine that as an extension of that, they went '...I guess if Dame Weber vouched for this wizard, they must be okay'.
I was given to understand that the Jades do in fact use the Ghyran from waystones to empower actual spells, not merely flood the land in Ghyran. Like, they do in fact have spells to ensure the fertility of a field or animal, or make plants grow faster. Those could be scaleable.
So yes, I'd expect the Lights to need to shape those large amounts of Hysh into spells that can be scaled up, but then again, they already have their choirs so perhaps it wouldn't be that huge an obstacle for them?
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Oh no, they are definitely out of the question. Because there is no question; instead, it's a guarantee.
It seems viable. The Empire is extremely keen on stopping plagues from spreading and don't really prioritize getting the informed consent from plague victims before they stop them from spreading the plague, so if it came down to it they absolutely would give them the choice between standing in the magic light or going on the bonfire. It's a preferable solution to burning entire towns or districts, which has been resorted to in the past.
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<Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest Fantasy - Users' Choice!>
WFRP 2e: Paths of the Damned II - Spires of Altdorf, page 9
Anti-riot riots too.
Welp, looks like we got another potential project to wow people with. Though of course our good friend Erngrim would get a good portion of the credit too.
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Here's what you do: you lay the groundwork for the whole project in altdorf, going so far as to actually put in physical infrastructure that will go towards the project, but then abruptly cancel it citing complaints from someone, there will certainly be at least one. THEN you'll have the altdorf love of rioting AND the altdorf love of being performatively accepting of magic pointing in the same place, and you'll get riots demanding the project be reinstated, which you promptly do to quell the riots!
That does sound like something a gray wizard would think of to try.
Oh and there is another reason to do the anti-plague thing:
- Tzeench hates us over ruining Only Gork/Mork
- Slaanesh hates us over Vlag
- Khorne hates us over the fight at the Kul encampment
- Nurgle does not hate us