Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

[Nerdasaurus Rex]

[ ] We Have Adventures At Home
-[ ] Coin: Protector
-[ ] Waystone: Deploy in Kislev (Praag Region) (Niedzwenka, Zlata, Hatalath, Sarvoi, Thorek, Elrisse, Tochter)
-[ ] Waystone: Nexuses (Forest of Shadows) (Tochter, Elrisse, Aksel, Hatalath, Cadaeth, Thorek, Niedzwenka)
-[ ] Codify the spell Knightbringer
-[ ] WEBMAT: Egrimm Learning: Nehekaran Language (pay with favour, Mathilde learning as well)
-[ ] WEBMAT: Max: Receive dictation: Linguistic Drift in Lizardmen Glyphs and Seviroscope (large, based on glass and alchemical inks)
-[ ] WEBMAT: Egrimm and Johann: Involve yourself in current affairs: Investigate the Lichemaster
-[ ] OVERWORK: Waystone: Seek the lost Black Fire Pass Nexus (Thorek, Egrimm, Johann)
-[ ] Write a paper: Aethyric Vitae (1/2)
-[ ] EIC: Assist in the creation of the magical route through the Schadensumpf
-[ ] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with a Karak's archives (Karak Vlag)
-[ ] Eike Actions: Waystone Deployment, KAU action
-[ ] Eike Study: Learn sounds, learn Enchanting

After a lot of thinking, I've put together a draft. Three adventures—Forest of Shadows, Kemmler, and the Forest of Gloom, which will all be big and flashy, especially with the protector on. Praag gets the waystones, and then we gigaflex on the colleges with Knightbringer, AV, the Seviroscope, and whatever loot we pull from the adventures. Max tops up our CF (which is running a little dry at the moment), and we start learning Nehekaran in preparation for future adventures.

I feel like I should put Egrimm on the Forest of Shadows action, but he's already doing a ton of stuff this turn and I don't want to push it. I also want to grab Hatalath for the Black Fire nexus, but I don't think Thorek would appreciate us bringing an elf along.

I'm really annoyed that I couldn't fit any tributary actions into this plan, but we can do those in a later turn. Eike's kind of been an afterthought this turn, I've stolen some ideas from other vote plans, but I'm open to changing to whatever.

 

[Aliya]

Fuck it, new plan that should satisfy everyone.
[] Plan: Our job, strictly speaking.
-[] Waystone: Deploy in the Empire.
--[] Sylvania
---[] The College Wizard gang.
-[] Waystone: Deploy in Lauleron (first).
--[] The Elf Gang.
-[] Waystone: Deploy in Karaz Ankor
--[] Thorek
-[] Waystone Deploy in Kislev
--[] Pragg
---[] The Kislev Gang.
-[][][] Elfcation, 1 AP borrowed from the next turn.

 

[K von Carstein]

Fuck it, new plan that should satisfy everyone.
[] Plan: Our job, strictly speaking.
-[] Waystone: Deploy in the Empire.
--[] Sylvania
---[] The College Wizard gang.
-[] Waystone: Deploy in Lauleron (first).
--[] The Elf Gang.
-[] Waystone: Deploy in Karaz Ankor
--[] Thorek
-[] Waystone Deploy in Kislev
--[] Pragg
---[] The Kislev Gang.
-[][][] Elfcation, 1 AP borrowed from the next turn.

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I'd vote for that.

 

[Parabola]

... @Boney, is "Waystone: Seek the lost Black Fire Pass Nexus" a valid action to take alongside Johann, given our previous experience infiltrating dangerous locations alongside him?

 

[Zero Gravitas]

Apropos of nothing, can I interest you in the merits of a Sylvania First strategy?

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That does look like a pretty good plan.

The Dawi distrust magic even more than the Empire does. Thorek plainly wasn't happy about putting up waystones around the Karaz Ankor, and he's a runelord who knows how much the Karaz Ankor needs it. Other dwarf kings are going to need to be convinced to agree. It'll be a lot easier to get the Empire to agree than dwarfs imo.

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As much as they distrust magic Mathilde's word isn't mere gold - it is gromril. The Dawi will grumble but they're going to do it because that's how they roll: Mathilde is the authority so if they screw up by not listening to her that'll be an eternal shame.

Luckily we are the major power behind the empire contribution and also the one who has got all the other empire people to play ball and support this endeavor. So if Mathy says the empire can wait then the only one who can really say anything to her is the emperor and he currently has not shown a indication to want to meddle with this.

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The issue I'm seeing isn't people in the empire being pissed that they're left behind.

It is people - particularly the nobility but even some wizards - saying 'ok so Kislev has these big expensive stones, therefore we don't need really them'. Or you know at least don't need them now and then the rollout gets postponed everytime someone calculates the bill.

I mean we did explain to the Emperor that a lack of Waystoners kills everyone, we did a magical model of the Old World and everything. I am also reasonably sure the Colleges also know that fact and are pro their own survival. Given that this was an Imperial project to start with with all the auxiliary benefits that comes with (elven secrets, new Ghyan nexus etc...) I think we are fine on the Imperial front.

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I still think the buy in and urgency is less in the Empire than elsewhere. The Colleges were against dedicating resources until Mathilde did a lot of favours despite Mathilde being a LM in very good standing.

With the Dawi - who are both anti-magic and anti-elf - Mathilde had to trade some fairly minor favours to get the number two Runelord in the Karaz Ankor invested in the project.

 

[MrHobbit]

I like mostly like pikkle's New Model Remix plan, but I agree that borrowing from next turn is overly complicated. This gets tributaries to Laurelorn and makes a waystone that will be better suited for them. That way we can do it next turn. I dislike getting training for something we'll be doing anyways. We can do something with Kazador later.

[] Plan SHADOW WIZARD MURDER GANG (Less Training)
-[] 1 AP Overwork
-[] The Protector
-[] Waystone: Deploy in Kislev (Praag Region)
--[] With Zlata, Baba Niedzwenka, Tochter, and Sarvoi
-[] Tributary: Dreaming Wood (Nordland)
--[] With Cadaeth, Hatalath, and Tochter
-[] Waystone: Build a Waystone
--[] With Hatalath, Sarvoi, Thorek, Egrimm, and Elrisse
-[] [] [] Travel to Nagarythe at the invitation of Ambassador Daroir, and join their eternal war against Naggarothi invaders for three months.
-[] EIC: Assist in the creation of the magical route through the Schadensumpf, both personally and with the EIC's influence and resources
-[] KAU: Seek the publishing contacts to start acquiring large amounts of books from a nearby realm (Lothern)
-[] SERENITY: Aethyric Vitae 2/2
-[] Eike Actions: Waystone deployment, Scouting training, EIC action
-[] Eike Study: Enchanting class at the Grey College (1 CF), learn Khazalid

On the other hand, here's a plan to stay home and not go on the Elfternship. I chose to investigate Mordheim so we can learn if it can be restored. I'm not sure what the other actions or the Coin should be. Introducing Egrimm to Cython? Investigating Kislev's network? Learning scouting from Kazador?

-[] 1 AP Overwork
-[] Coin
-[] Waystone: Deploy in Kislev (Praag Region)
--[] With Zlata, Baba Niedzwenka, Tochter, and Sarvoi
-[] Tributary: Dreaming Wood (Nordland)
--[] With Cadaeth, Hatalath, and Tochter
-[] Waystone: Build a Waystone
--[] With Hatalath, Sarvoi, Thorek, Egrimm, and Elrisse
-[] WEBMAT: Egrimm Johann Waystone: Nexuses (Mordheim)
-[] EIC: Assist in the creation of the magical route through the Schadensumpf, both personally and with the EIC's influence and resources
-[] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (Karak Vlag Archives)
-[] SERENITY: Aethyric Vitae 2/2
-[] Eike Actions: Waystone deployment, Scouting training, EIC action
-[] Eike Study: Enchanting class at the Grey College (1 CF), learn scouting from Kazador

As much as they distrust magic Mathilde's word isn't mere gold - it is gromril. The Dawi will grumble but they're going to do it because that's how they roll: Mathilde is the authority so if they screw up by not listening to her that'll be an eternal shame.

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No? She doesn't have the same authority of the Ancestor Gods. Infact, the dwarfs taught by the Ancestor Gods chose not to get waystones for themselves. I repeat again that Thorek wasn't happy about putting waystones around the Karaz Ankor's territory. Dwarfs are not going to be falling over themselves to build waystones. Why would they?

 

[DragonParadox]

I still think the buy in and urgency is less in the Empire than elsewhere. The Colleges were against dedicating resources until Mathilde did a lot of favours despite Mathilde being a LM in very good standing.

With the Dawi - who are both anti-magic and anti-elf - Mathilde had to trade some fairly minor favours to get the number two Runelord in the Karaz Ankor invested in the project.

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Well that is good then, since we do not require anymore resources of the Empire. Rolling out Waystones isn't a favor we ask of the nobles, it's us rolling up to them and asking 'Would you like less beastmen and zombies, healthier peasants and fewer insane mages Y/N?' No one in their right mind would refuse. The important question is not whose pride would be tickled the most, it's who needs it the most and that is indubitably Kislev.

I mean if we did put it in the Empire it would be in 'Eastern Stirland' which has *checks ledger* next to no influence within the Empire and which the nobles of the Empire barely think about more than Praag. It is a marginal advantage compared to giving Boris the political space to enact major reforms which Kislev unlike the Empire needs to weather the storm.

 

[LightLan]

Fuck it, new plan that should satisfy everyone.
[] Plan: Our job, strictly speaking.
-[] Waystone: Deploy in the Empire.
--[] Sylvania
---[] The College Wizard gang.
-[] Waystone: Deploy in Lauleron (first).
--[] The Elf Gang.
-[] Waystone: Deploy in Karaz Ankor
--[] Thorek
-[] Waystone Deploy in Kislev
--[] Pragg
---[] The Kislev Gang.
-[][][] Elfcation, 1 AP borrowed from the next turn.

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Let me fine-tune that a bit, it lacks eic, kau and serenity action as well as Eike:

[] Plan: Our job, strictly speaking. v2
-[] Waystone: Deploy in the Empire.
--[] Sylvania
---[] The College Wizard gang.
-[] Waystone: Deploy in Laurelorn (first).
--[] The Elf Gang.
-[] Waystone: Deploy in Karaz Ankor
--[] Thorek
-[] Waystone Deploy in Kislev
--[] Pragg
---[] The Kislev Gang.
-[][][] Elfcation, 1 AP borrowed from the next turn.
-[][EIC] Assist in the creation of the magical route through the Schadensumpf, both personally and with the EIC's influence and resources
-[][KAU] Begin copying the full corpus of a Partner Library. (Imperial School of Engineers)
-[][Serenity] Aethyric Vitae (2/2)
-[] Eike Actions: EIC, waystone deployment
-[] Eike Study: Enchanting (College Classes), Khazalid (KAU teacher)

 

[Zero Gravitas]

She doesn't have the same authority of the Ancestor Gods. Infact, the dwarfs taught by the Ancestor Gods chose not to get waystones for themselves. I repeat again that Thorek wasn't happy about putting waystones around the Karaz Ankor's territory. Dwarfs are not going to be falling over themselves to build waystones. Why would they?

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??? The golden age dwarfs had their own Waystone network. That's what's powering all the Works including the Runes that prevent the Dawi from turning into statues. K8P is itself a Nexus.

Yes the Ancestors had other ways of powering the Runes but they were the Ancestors. The generations that cam after them worked with the elves to build the Waystone network.

Thorek isn't exactly happy that the Dawi need either humans or elves (not to mention he doesn't know what Thorgrim knows and Belegar suspects - but that's only going to make him more unhappy). Still he's accepted the necessity of building Waystones which means that everyone this side of Kragg will also accept that necessity.

 

[WorldSlayer]

Grunfeld in Kislev makes sense to me, but could you elaborate on the Light in the Dreaming Wood? We have two Lights, Egrimm and Elrisse, and I'm not sure how either of them specifically would help with Nordland being leery about tributary deployment.

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I was mostly thinking of Egrimm since he has the position (Lord Magister), the social skills and the magical ability to keep up. The social skills are important here because we want an important human around to keep things from getting volatile and someone with good magical skills so we can grab as much tasty knowledge and skill as possible.

I didn't think to have Tochter there because Kislev is pretty far away and working on the waystones could be pretty intensive. I didn't want to split the focus there if we had someone else capable of being the imperial wizard on site. Also I'd definitely like to have a wizard who's dedicated to the each site, especially since Cadaeth and Hatalath are likely to be appear extremely alien to any humans.

Therefore my thoughts were that Tochter (Jade) would be best in Kislev and Egrimm (Light) would be best in Dreaming Wood.

 

[friget234]

A Sylvania first Waystone strategy does lend itself slightly better to a long term Empress Roswita outcome which I honestly just find more interesting than the Emperor's current son as the next in-line for a number of narrative reasons. I'll fully confess that I'm doing the dumb guy quester thing of trying to mentally force a long term outcome of Empress Roswita with us on her council somewhere as the final 'arc' of the quest to make things come full circle though

 

[Gavin Prince]

-[ ] WEBMAT: Egrimm Learning: Nehekaran Language

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You'd need to specify if we're paying for those lessons with cash or favour. And I guess specify if we're attending too (I'd guess yes, but it doubles the cost so theoretically we might just be sending him to learn alone)

 

[Retrueno]

So very silly thought. But how do you think the We would take to going to Ulthuan? For some reason I can't get the image out of my head of telepathic spiders trying to man a ship (and killing Druuchi)

 

[MrHobbit]

??? The golden age dwarfs had their own Waystone network. That's what's powering all the Works including the Runes that prevent the Dawi from turning into statues. K8P is itself a Nexus.

Yes the Ancestors had other ways of powering the Runes but they were the Ancestors. The generations that cam after them worked with the elves to build the Waystone network.

Thorek isn't exactly happy that the Dawi need either humans or elves (not to mention he doesn't know what Thorgrim knows and Belegar suspects - but that's only going to make him more unhappy). Still he's accepted the necessity of building Waystones which means that everyone this side of Kragg will also accept that necessity.

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The Dwarfs of the Golden Age had nexuses enclosed in their Karaks. They built the mountain-waystones to specifically not absorb winds as a security measure. They could have put waystones around the Black Water and Silver Road during the Golden Age. But they didn't evidentially because even before the Times of Woes, dwarfs didn't like extra-Karak infrastructure. They just dislike extra-Karak infrastructure a hell of a lot more nowadays.

We can convince dwarfs to go against the wisdom of their ancestors, but like Thorek they will not be happy about it. Which brings us to the Empire not being the faction with the least buy-in. They all have plenty of problem areas they would love to be taken care of and waystones produce obvious improvements.

You just misread the scene. He's upset about extra-Karak infrastructure, placing waystones around the Karaz Ankor. He's the one who proposed getting nexus instructions from Ulthuan.

"Then all that remains is supplementing the Karaz Ankor network with chains of new Waystones. Now, I know that conventional Dwarven theory doesn't like relying on surface infrastructure," Thorek gives the grimace and waggle of a beard that's roughly equivalent to nonverbal grumbling, "but that's a line of thought that we're already breaking with in some places - the Undumgi along Death Pass, the Watchtower Clans along Mad Dog Pass, the Slotchokri and Barak Varr's tributaries. That is a lot of already-secure territory that could be feeding power into the Karak-Waystones."

Thorek stares into nothingness for a while, his eyes moving as he carefully maps some sort of mental journey. "Leave it with me," he eventually says, and trumps off in a way that suggests that he doesn't like what he's about to do but anyone that tries to get in his way is going to like the results even less.

Click to shrink...

 

[Gavin Prince]

So very silly thought. But how do you think the We would take to going to Ulthuan? For some reason I can't get the image out of my head of telepathic spiders trying to man a ship (and killing Druuchi)

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The Elves are pretty used to the idea of magical talking animals, so they'd be fine on that front. Their ambush tactics would probably need some adapting to catch Druuchi overland rather than Orcs underground though, as I don't know if they kept their pre-migration knowledge.

 

[Xepheria]

And I am tempted to also pull together a variant that steals a T45 action to also make a new Waystone design that is more suitable for mass-deployment (since it didn't seem like the Gambler was very impactful on that last turn and I don't feel the need to wait for the Coin to be available), but I wanted to test the temperature on that; in general, I hate "embezzling" actions.

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IMO, it makes sense to steal either one or two AP from next turn if there's any actions that we want to take that benefit from having the Protector active in the near future, just in order to optimise coin usage, given that it applies to everything done in a turn that fits its remit. There's a pretty large opportunity cost to taking them on turns we wanted things to benefit from the Gambler (which only benefits one action on a given turn).

 

[Tasoli]

Was putting Eike on Lothern KAU book deal action asked about? I think it is good enough action for her to do alone and than she can take a ship back once she is done.

But would that be a too short time on the Lothern?

 

[Nimbus]

Was putting Eike on Lothern KAU book deal action asked about? I think it is good enough action for her to do alone and than she can take a ship back once she is done.

But would that be a too short time on the Lothern?

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There's been a bit of back and forth about it, though most of the recently proposed plans seem to want to keep her at home. (I think it'd make sense but I'm only one person!)

 

[Murazor]

So it rather strongly resembles some other plans, but I think that this one has its own interesting spin on things.

[ ] Plan Triple Entente (Ulthuan, Kislev, Bretonnia)
-[ ] 1 Overwork Bonus AP
-[ ] Coin: Protector
-[ ] [ ] [ ] Travel to Nagarythe at the invitation of Ambassador Daroir, and join their eternal war against Naggarothi invaders for three months.
-[ ] Waystone: Deploy in Kislev - Praag (First)
--[ ] Baba Niedzwenka, Ice Maiden Zlata
--[ ] If viable, invite some relevant party from Bretonnia to the ceremony
-[ ] Try to assist Carcassone with their Iron Orc problem
-[ ] EGRIMM: Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm (Auditory Seviroscope) Spend 2 CF for a Journeyman with Auditory Magesight to help out
-[ ] JOHANN: Explore Laurelorn's Storm Ward
--[] Try to aid the local Faniour against gribblies and get Eike live combat experience
-[ ] MAX: Receive dictation: specify which two papers or one book will be written (Linguistic Drift in Lizardmen Glyphs (FADING), The Polyphenic Theory of Lizardmen Society (FADING))
-[ ] EIC: Assist in the creation of the magical route through the Schadensumpf, both personally and with the EIC's influence and resources
-[ ] KAU: Seek the publishing contacts to start acquiring large amounts of books from a nearby realm (Lothern)
-[ ] SERENITY: Aethyric Vitae 2/2
-[ ] Eike Actions: Auditory Seviroscope, EIC Action, Storm Ward Exploration
-[ ] Eike Study: Enchanting class at the Grey College (paid in CF)

So we get the full Ulthuan experience, Praag gets those Waystones that everyone wants to give them and we lay the groundwork for recruiting the Damsels into the WP. Protector is good for that, because if we contribute meaningfully the Bretonnians will know that they owe us one.

Minimal Waystone activity, but something has to give, unless we are willing to leave one of the elfcation actions for next turn.

Other than that, we do some stuff that I think has real neat potential with WEBMAT and give Eike actions (audio-seviroscope, EIC fog bridge route) that should have some synergy with her enchanting training.

As usual, feel free to point out gross mistakes, potential improvements and anything else you regard as off with this plan.

 

[Ergosum]

[ ] We Have Adventures At Home
-[ ] Coin: Protector
-[ ] Waystone: Deploy in Kislev (Praag Region) (Niedzwenka, Zlata, Hatalath, Sarvoi, Thorek, Elrisse, Tochter)
-[ ] Waystone: Nexuses (Forest of Shadows) (Tochter, Elrisse, Aksel, Hatalath, Cadaeth, Thorek, Niedzwenka)
-[ ] Codify the spell Knightbringer
-[ ] WEBMAT: Egrimm Learning: Nehekaran Language
-[ ] WEBMAT: Max: Receive dictation: Linguistic Drift in Lizardmen Glyphs and Seviroscope (large, based on glass and alchemical inks)
-[ ] WEBMAT: Egrimm and Johann: Involve yourself in current affairs: Investigate the Lichemaster
-[ ] OVERWORK: Waystone: Seek the lost Black Fire Pass Nexus (Thorek, Egrimm, Johann)
-[ ] Write a paper: Aethyric Vitae (1/2)
-[ ] EIC: Assist in the creation of the magical route through the Schadensumpf
-[ ] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with a Karak's archives (Karak Vlag)
-[ ] Eike Actions: Waystone Deployment, KAU action
-[ ] Eike Study: Learn sounds, learn Enchanting

After a lot of thinking, I've put together a draft. Three adventures—Forest of Shadows, Kemmler, and the Forest of Gloom, which will all be big and flashy, especially with the protector on. Praag gets the waystones, and then we gigaflex on the colleges with Knightbringer, AV, the Seviroscope, and whatever loot we pull from the adventures. Max tops up our CF (which is running a little dry at the moment), and we start learning Nehekaran in preparation for future adventures.

I feel like I should put Egrimm on the Forest of Shadows action, but he's already doing a ton of stuff this turn and I don't want to push it. I also want to grab Hatalath for the Black Fire nexus, but I don't think Thorek would appreciate us bringing an elf along.

I'm really annoyed that I couldn't fit any tributary actions into this plan, but we can do those in a later turn. Eike's kind of been an afterthought this turn, I've stolen some ideas from other vote plans, but I'm open to changing to whatever.

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If you drop Thorek from the Black Fire Pass Nexus it could count as a Web-Mat action (maybe instead of the papers, if you bring Max along?) and use the Overwork action for something else like tributaries or the Iron Orcs (with the Coin set to Father)

Other than that, I'm not yet convinced to not go on Elfcation, but this would be a really cool alternative

 

[BurnNote]

I missed a lot of the discussion, what is the rough consensus re plan?

 

[Nerdasaurus Rex]

If you drop Thorek from the Black Fire Pass Nexus it could count as a Web-Mat action (maybe instead of the papers, if you bring Max along?) and use the Overwork action for something else like tributaries or the Iron Orcs (with the Coin set to Father)

Other than that, I'm not yet convinced to not go on Elfcation, but this would be a really cool alternative

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That's possible, but I really don't want to go hunting for a dwarven nexus in a goblin infested forest without a dwarf expert on hand.

 

[MrHobbit]

That's possible, but I really don't want to go hunting for a dwarven nexus in a goblin infested forest without a dwarf expert on hand.

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It's not a Dwarf nexus though. The High Elves were the ones who planned to raise it. I don't think Thorek can do much to help anyways. He's not going to have much experience hunting in forests. He could ask Karaz-a-Karak for their records on goblin and beastmen strongholds in the forest, but Mathilde can do that too. Cadaeth or Tochter would probably be better for the investigation.

 

[Nerdasaurus Rex]

It's not a Dwarf nexus though. The High Elves were the ones who planned to raise it. I don't think Thorek can do much to help anyways. He's not going to have much experience hunting in forests. He could ask Karaz-a-Karak for their records on goblin and beastmen strongholds in the forest, but Mathilde can do that too. Cadaeth or Tochter would probably be better for the investigation.

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I've reread the section it's mentioned in, and I am not convinced it's an elven nexus rather than a dwarven one.

 

[mathymancer]

I missed a lot of the discussion, what is the rough consensus re plan?

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#Fathersweep