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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Ladies. Gentlemen. Enbies. Once upon a time, Mathilde nearly got ganked by a human-zombie monster in Eagle Castle. In the subsequent turn, the thread was paranoid enough that there was enough consensus to spend 5 whole actions on super-securing the Castle against further vampiric infiltration, making sure nothing was missed.

Since we went to such lengths at that time, I think that now, with the stakes a lot higher, it might be a good time to similarly spend at least 4 actions securing the Old World from further taint. We should do this now, because Chaos won't wait for us to be ready. It really won't, and making waystones is going to be slow going for a while.

So, after a lot of thinking, to achieve this I have made a plan variant to Plan You Must Deploy Additional Waystones.

[] Plan: You Must Deploy Additional Waystones v2
-[] Overwork: Yes
-[] COIN: The Gambler
-[] SERENITY: Aethyric Vitae (2/2)
-[] Waystone: Deploy in Kislev (Praag Region) (Niedzwenka, Zlata) (do this first)
-[] Waystone: Deploy in the Empire (Sylvania) (Elrisse, Tochter)
-[] Waystone: Deploy in the Karaz Ankor (Black Water) (Thorek)
-[] Tributary: Dreaming Wood (Nordland/Laurelorn) (Hatalath, Sarvoi, Cadaeth, Tochter, Elrisse, Aksel)
-[] JOHANN: Waystone: Seek the lost Black Fire Pass Nexus (The Gambler)
-[] MAX: Write two papers: Linguistic Drift in Lizardmen Glyphs; The Polyphenic Theory of Lizardmen Society
-[] EGRIMM: Auditory Seviroscope ("Wind chimes") (Spend 2 CF for a Journeyman with Auditory Magesight to assist)
-[] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (Karak Vlag)
-[] EIC: Assist in the creation of the magical route through the Schadensumpf, both personally and with the EIC's influence and resources
-[] Eike Actions: Auditory seviroscope, EIC magical route
-[] Eike Study: Learn spells, enchanting lessons from the Grey College (1 CF)

Changes:
  • Instead of studying Kurgan enchanted weapons, we're going Nexus-hunting with Johann in the Forest of Gloom, which Boney has confirmed is valid. For good measure, I put the Gambler on there because it's an actual risk as opposed to the Auditory seviroscope, which may merely take more time if it fails.
  • Adds Aksel, Tochter and Elrisse to the Dreaming Wood action, because there is a need for politicking here on the human side. Two LMs (counting Mathilde), one Jade wizard and one actual local to Nordland that knows about Bad Forests should be able to make them understand that the Eonir are just trying to 'repair' their forest.
    • I'm aware that this is doubling up on Elrisse and Tochter but we've done that in past turns and there were zero issues. Particularly, the Dreaming Wood action includes Tochter's own personally-worked-on ritual, I don't think she'd mind.
  • Specifies doing Kislev deployment first.
  • Puts Eike on learning spells and not learning Khazalid or going to the Karak Vlag negotiation. I'm pretty sure Boney said that Eike is already slowly learning Khazalid, because she spends half her time in Karak Nar and even if it's mostly populated by humans, the locals have picked up enough Khazalid that she gets some.
    • She's literally training to be a wizard, she should actually be learning wizard things. She hasn't been learning actual spells since Turn 41, she should get back to that.

Please consider voting for this.
 
On the one hand, I'm not personally a fan of elfcation right now. On the other hand, the following simplified exchange is deeply amusing to me:

"Hello Lady Magister, your letter mentioned you had something you wanted to show me?"

"Örbs."

"W-wha... these are... how?"

"Böök."

"What!?"

"Byë." *Leaves the country*
 
Since so many people are making plans I'll throw my hat into the ring as well. My intention was to do some final preparations and leave for Ulthuan... but I just remembered that we don't have enough College Favor to get Walter Kupfer's full lecture on Druchii, which I'd really want before we go. So my current idea is to do some final preparations this turn, get more CF through the Gigaflex, and next turn get Kupfer's lecture and immediately take the ship to Lothern.

[ ] Plan: The Old World's Worst Roadtrip
-[ ] Uses 1 Overwork AP
-[ ] Waystone: Deploy in Kislev (Praag Region)
--[ ] With Zlata, Niedzwenka, Thorek, Sarvoi
-[ ] Waystone: Nexuses (Mordheim)
--[ ] With Egrimm, Sarvoi, Elrisse, Hatalath
-[ ] Waystone: Nexuses (Forest of Shadows)
--[ ] With Aksel, Thorek, Cadaeth, Tochter
-[ ] Codify the spell Knightbringer
-[ ] Waystone: Seek the lost Black Fire Pass Nexus
--[ ] With Johann, Egrimm (Counts as Web-Mat)
--[ ] The Gambler bonus
-[ ] EGRIMM: Learn High Nehekharan with Egrimm (Pay with Money)
-[ ] MAX: Study an artefact (Kurgan Shrine to Mannslieb)
-[ ] SERENITY: Write Aethyric Vitae (2/2)
-[ ] EIC: Found an auditors division, to make sure the ledgers are in order.
-[ ] KAU: Begin copying the full corpus of a Partner Library. (Imperial School of Engineers)
-[ ] Eike Actions: Waystone deployment, study Kurgan shrine, EIC action
-[ ] Eike Study: Learn Dispel
-[ ] Coin: The Gambler (Seek the lost Black Fire Pass Nexus)

First, the Waystone stuff. There was some talk of developing another model before (and for) mass deployment, so by checking on Mordheim and the Forest of Shadows we'd know our needs for all the places we want to patch up first (namely these plus Kislev and Sylvania), and by deploying Waystones somewhere (and Praag is IMO the best first location) we'd get a better idea of the potential bottlenecks. Since the deployment itself will hopefully be a matter of mostly logistics, besides the obvious Kislevites I'd bring Thorek and Sarvoi to help with the Karaz Ankor and Laurelorn parts (with Mathilde presumably handling the Colleges'). Besides that, for the nexuses there's the Dhar 'experts' for Mordheim and the experts in forests in general, the Forest of Shadows in particular, or the nearby Middle Mountains (Thorek) for the FoS ones. Plus Egrimm and Johann helping with the Black Fire Pass one while keeping it a Web-Mat action.

Besides that, Knightbringer and AV are straightforward, High Nehekharan se we can go to Nehekhara... probably not next turn, but the following one (and totally not so we can study certain forbidden stuff), the Shrine to have something cool to do with Max and Eike (and because it's itself pretty interesting and it's been a while since we got it already), and the auditors because it's probably best to have them as soon as possible, with how big the EIC already is.

Also, it'd be really funny to go from Praag to Mordheim to the worst parts of the Forest of Shadows to the greenskin and beastmen filled Forest of Gloom in a single turn. Don't you want adventure? Well, here's some of the spiciest parts of the continent, all in a row. It'll be fun!
 
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An interesting thought I had reading this arc for the first time is that the Waystone Project as a whole reads like one of those blurbs from a Chaos Daemons Codex (either 40k or Fantasy really). You know, the ones that usually end with something like 'and then X traitor/the Changeling/Tzeench did Y thing and neither the project team or its findings were never heard from again'.

If I'd joined in ten turns ago I might have brought that up as a consideration for a project that (if successful) would 100% be targeted by some kind of plot from somewhere but I like the narrative possibilities of not doing anything along those lines and seeing what happens. It's fine though it's not like there are any potential agents of chaos already on the team :lol2:
 
friget234 said:
An interesting thought I had reading this arc for the first time is that the Waystone Project as a whole reads like one of those blurbs from a Chaos Daemons Codex (either 40k or Fantasy really). You know, the ones that usually end with something like 'and then X traitor/the Changeling/Tzeench did Y thing and neither the project team or its findings were never heard from again'.

If I'd joined in ten turns ago I might have brought that up as a consideration for a project that (if successful) would 100% be targeted by some kind of plot from somewhere but I like the narrative possibilities of not doing anything along those lines and seeing what happens. It's fine though it's not like there are any potential agents of chaos already on the team :lol2:
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If chaos doesn't want to kill us and ruin everything we've worked for we haven't done a good enough job.
 
I think we are ultimately at the crossroads of a lot of projects but the waystones are too important to rush. Praag makes the most sense for a proof of concept so that we can get more resources devoted to the Waystone Project. A widely known corrupted place that will strengthen an ally. that being said I think it's better to make sure our foundations are solid before we start expanding.

The black fire pass nexus. It was pointed out that it was all that was needed to connect the Karaz Ankor and Ulthuan's network. The Prince made a point of saying they function exactly as intended and it simply doesn't adjust well to new circumstances with Chaos and the Orcs. We have seen how easy it is to corrupt waystones for that purpose. I would argue we go for tangible benefits, get in good with the players that matter. Scouting the locations is important and in no way shape or form am I saying we shouldn't scout for the best locations.

Ultimately the holders of the purse strings and who have influence won't care if it benefits everyone, they want results that help. Mordheim would reclaim a great deal and help the Empire with a thousand and one problems. To the administration who can't be brought into the true secrets of them you think Kislev wants to invest in it?

I think the best way I can put it is we need to act like inventors in the early 19th-20th century. We do have this shining amazing idea that will help people across the world. The idea is expensive, it is time consuming and most benefits of your amazing idea are in a far off "someday" that won't help me secure power now. So you act like Edison (despite me not liking how the guy acted he was a business man). You show off what you do have, think of the benefits when I complete this work, you invest now and you get help now, I get the money to continue pursuing the dream.
 
Since we can use a WEBMAT action to build a purely collegiate Waystone, here is my stab at a WEBMAT with strong emphasis on preparing for the elfcation and for wide spread deployment of Waystones.

Also, it allows for a VERY enchantement focused turn for Eike lol.

[] Plan: Waystones, WEBMAT and prepare for intrigue and conflict with Naggaroth. (V2.0)
-[] OVERWORK : 1 AP
-[] COIN: The Gambler
-[] MAX: Receive dictation: Linguistic Drift in Lizardmen Glyphs (FADING), The Polyphenic Theory of Lizardmen Society (FADING)
-[] JOHANN: Waystone: Mapping (Estalia and Tilea)
-[] WEBMAT: Build a Waystone (collegiate version)
--[] COIN: The Gambler
-[] Study the Waystone foundation enchantment for enchanting technique insights
-[] Waystone: Deploy in Kislev (Praag Region) (Zlata, Baba Niedzwenka, Johann)
-[] Receive training: Advice on negociations and conflict with Drucchi (Walther Kupfer)
-[] Enter into negotiations with the Druchii delegation to Laurelorn.
-[] EIC: Assist in the creation of the magical route through the Schadensumpf, both personally and with the EIC's influence and resources
-[] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (Karak Vlag Archives)
-[] SERENITY: Aethyric Vitae 2/2
-[] Eike Actions: Auditory Seviroscope, Study Waystone enchantement, Build a Waystone
-[] Eike Study: Enchanting class at the Grey College (Pay with money)
 
I certainly appreciate the hustle of the mass waystone deployment plans.

As for "will Eike learn from Mathilde learning", I believe Mathilde wanting Eike to learn is a far, far bigger factor than wizard smug. This isn't a passive exercise, we are not having Eike learn through osmosis, Mathilde will be actively helping her.

Considering the scouting training is with dwarves, having a human perspective (and dawi culture translator) giving Eike their personal attention as a study buddy is actually kind of a big deal! Mathilde already having experience makes her better at helping eike learn, not worse, if you ask me.
 
hugo239111 said:
I think the best way I can put it is we need to act like inventors in the early 19th-20th century. We do have this shining amazing idea that will help people across the world. The idea is expensive, it is time consuming and most benefits of your amazing idea are in a far off "someday" that won't help me secure power now. So you act like Edison (despite me not liking how the guy acted he was a business man). You show off what you do have, think of the benefits when I complete this work, you invest now and you get help now, I get the money to continue pursuing the dream.
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This is, ultimately, why we make the Praag Waystone, or whichever Waystone we deploy first, as big of an international event as we possibly can - it's compatible with just about every plan proposed thus far, it doesn't cost AP and it brings in the stakeholders who can support the project as it moves into the phase that needs that support.

I'd urge plan-makers to add some sort of note to emphasise this aspect of the Waystone rollout and will be far more likely to vote for plans that do. Elfcation or not, Praag, Laurelorn or Stirland, whatever else - let's make sure that the great and the good know what we're doing, why we're doing it, how it benefits them and how they can help us.
 
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picklepikkl said:
[] Plan SHADOW WIZARD MURDER GANG (New Model Remix)

This is an identical plan, but embezzles an action from T45 to make a new Waystone design: a much more straightforward leyline-only model. I don't want to chaotically throw everyone at it, so I just put in Hatalath (to keep our options open on the Capstone), Sarvoi (to keep our options open on the Storage), Thorek (for the dwarf Rune), and the Lights (for the Foundation), based on who did what last turn.
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Was asleep when discussion came up, but I'd like to say that if designing a new Waystone is on the table, I'd like to push for a stripped-down and cheapened river-only waystone model to supplement and feed the current design, since I've been pushing for that type for a while.

I won't be sad if a Leyline only type wins, but I just really like the idea of a waystone model that's specifically designed to be put in forward areas and problem spots until more infrastructure is built up behind and around it.
 
Parabola said:
Ladies. Gentlemen. Enbies. Once upon a time, Mathilde nearly got ganked by a human-zombie monster in Eagle Castle. In the subsequent turn, the thread was paranoid enough that there was enough consensus to spend 5 whole actions on super-securing the Castle against further vampiric infiltration, making sure nothing was missed.

Since we went to such lengths at that time, I think that now, with the stakes a lot higher, it might be a good time to similarly spend at least 4 actions securing the Old World from further taint. We should do this now, because Chaos won't wait for us to be ready. It really won't, and making waystones is going to be slow going for a while.

So, after a lot of thinking, to achieve this I have made a plan variant to Plan You Must Deploy Additional Waystones.

[] Plan: You Must Deploy Additional Waystones v2
-[] Overwork: Yes
-[] COIN: The Gambler
-[] SERENITY: Aethyric Vitae (2/2)
-[] Waystone: Deploy in Kislev (Praag Region) (Niedzwenka, Zlata) (do this first)
-[] Waystone: Deploy in the Empire (Sylvania) (Elrisse, Tochter)
-[] Waystone: Deploy in the Karaz Ankor (Black Water) (Thorek)
-[] Tributary: Dreaming Wood (Nordland/Laurelorn) (Hatalath, Sarvoi, Cadaeth, Tochter, Elrisse, Aksel)
-[] JOHANN: Waystone: Seek the lost Black Fire Pass Nexus (The Gambler)
-[] MAX: Write two papers: Linguistic Drift in Lizardmen Glyphs; The Polyphenic Theory of Lizardmen Society
-[] EGRIMM: Auditory Seviroscope ("Wind chimes") (Spend 2 CF for a Journeyman with Auditory Magesight to assist)
-[] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (Karak Vlag)
-[] EIC: Assist in the creation of the magical route through the Schadensumpf, both personally and with the EIC's influence and resources
-[] Eike Actions: Auditory seviroscope, EIC magical route
-[] Eike Study: Learn spells, enchanting lessons from the Grey College (1 CF)

Changes:
  • Instead of studying Kurgan enchanted weapons, we're going Nexus-hunting with Johann in the Forest of Gloom, which Boney has confirmed is valid. For good measure, I put the Gambler on there because it's an actual risk as opposed to the Auditory seviroscope, which may merely take more time if it fails.
  • Adds Aksel, Tochter and Elrisse to the Dreaming Wood action, because there is a need for politicking here on the human side. Two LMs (counting Mathilde), one Jade wizard and one actual local to Nordland that knows about Bad Forests should be able to make them understand that the Eonir are just trying to 'repair' their forest.
    • I'm aware that this is doubling up on Elrisse and Tochter but we've done that in past turns and there were zero issues. Particularly, the Dreaming Wood action includes Tochter's own personally-worked-on ritual, I don't think she'd mind.
  • Specifies doing Kislev deployment first.
  • Puts Eike on learning spells and not learning Khazalid or going to the Karak Vlag negotiation. I'm pretty sure Boney said that Eike is already slowly learning Khazalid, because she spends half her time in Karak Nar and even if it's mostly populated by humans, the locals have picked up enough Khazalid that she gets some.
    • She's literally training to be a wizard, she should actually be learning wizard things. She hasn't been learning actual spells since Turn 41, she should get back to that.

Please consider voting for this.
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Dam I was all onboard the Elfcation this turn but You Must Deploy Additional Waystones v2 does appeal to my innermost need to go over the top all-in on quest stuff whenever possible. I think the Black Fire Pass Nexus could scratch the itch for adventure that Elfcation appeals to as well. Part of me thinks that having all of WEBMAT and Eike be a part of that might be worth it rather than just Johann if only for narrative reasons but I could be alone in that POV.
 
Ok let's see if i can get some actual fully formatted plans out before i grab dinner.

Plan Waystones before Ulthuan (No Overwork, Laurelorn First)
[ ] Plan Waystones before Ulthuan (No Overwork, Laurelorn First)
-[ ] Waystone: Deploy (Laurelorn)
--[ ] With Cadaeth, Hatalath, Sarvoi, and Thorek
-[ ] Tributary: International (Kislev)
--[ ] With Niedzwenka, Zlata
-[ ] Tributary: Dreaming Wood (Nordland)
--[ ] With Cadaeth, Hatalath, Tochter, and Aksel
-[ ] Waystone: Other Networks (Kislev)
--[ ] With Niedzwenka and Zlata
-[ ] Waystone: Build a Waystone
--[ ] With Elrisse, Egrimm, Max, Johann, Thorek, Sarvoi, Hatalath
--[ ] Gambler on Waystone Design
-[ ] SERENITY: Aethyric Vitae 2/2
-[ ] EIC: Found an auditors division, to make sure the ledgers are in order.
-[ ] KAU: Hire educators to teach a language or group of languages to your scribes (Eltharin)
-[ ] Eike Actions: EIC, KAU, both tributary actions.
-[ ] Eike Study: Enchanting class at the Grey College (paid in CF)
-[ ] Coin: the gambler
This is something of a compromise option for the elfcation voters. Doesn't use overwork to save that for next turn where, if this or a similar waystone plan that covers the high points here wins, i will pledge to support an elfcation plan next turn.

Starts out deployment, with (in this version) the first waystones going up in Laurelorn, partially for project politics but mostly because i think it will be by far the smoothest place to start deploying. Complete and unquestioned buy in from the local polity right down to any locals of waystone spots, very strong institutional knowledge on the local magical landscape, and right there for the folk who signed up for right of first refusal in building the things. Keeps the focus on just the one place to again ramp up slow enough to keep up with any teething issues as they arise.

Gets things going with tributaries in kislev and laurelorn, since per boney theres pretty big delays if we just leave them to it.

Investigates the ice witch network, to prepare for full waystone deployment next turn in pragg (before leaving for elfcation). Getting waystone deployment up and running will be difficult enough without adding on "figure out how to tie in to the changed network as we go, they haven't said its impossible yet thats good enough" as a complication. Also as a matter of disclosure i think it will lead to the sort of Boney lore, worldbuilding, and writing-in-general that is absolutely my favorite :p

Make another waystone design, preferably a cheaper and more mass producible one, for shoring up already controlled areas

The laurelorn tributary action is, imo, the easiest to switch out for something else if needed for vote buying :p

EIC and KAU i am very open to changing, but those two are things i saw discussion of, and i think (in universe in particular) getting to the point where in-house scribes can make copies of our new haul makes sense
Eike's actions, i was thinking of putting her on the kislev network, but i dont think theres the same automatic "she's your apprentice of course she can be here" with the ice witches as with the dwarves? Might want to ask boney about that.
Plan Waystones before Ulthuan (No Overwork, Pragg First)
[ ] Plan Waystones before Ulthuan (No Overwork, Pragg First)
-[ ] Waystone: Deploy (Pragg)
--[ ] With Niedzwenka, Zlata, Sarvoi, and Thorek
-[ ] Tributary: International (Kislev)
--[ ] With Niedzwenka, Zlata
-[ ] Tributary: Dreaming Wood (Nordland)
--[ ] With Cadaeth, Hatalath, Tochter, and Aksel
-[ ] Waystone: Other Networks (Kislev)
--[ ] With Niedzwenka and Zlata
-[ ] Waystone: Build a Waystone
--[ ] With Elrisse, Egrimm, Max, Johann, Thorek, Sarvoi, Hatalath
--[ ] Gambler on Waystone Design
-[ ] SERENITY: Aethyric Vitae 2/2
-[ ] EIC: Found an auditors division, to make sure the ledgers are in order.
-[ ] KAU: Hire educators to teach a language or group of languages to your scribes (Eltharin)
-[ ] Eike Actions: EIC, KAU, both tributary actions.
-[ ] Eike Study: Enchanting class at the Grey College (paid in CF)
-[ ] Coin: the gambler
As above, but switching in laurelorn for pragg, since i know a lot of people want to do that and i dont disagree.

This is something of a compromise option for the elfcation voters. Doesn't use overwork to save that for next turn where, if this or a similar waystone plan that covers the high points here wins, i will pledge to support an elfcation plan next turn.

Starts out deployment, with (in this version) the first waystones going up in Pragg, which i think will lead to some more teething issues, but is almost certainly the most urgent. If we can get a new waystone design workign that is perfect for relatively cheap deployment in bulk to controlled areas (like laurelorn), then that will be great to deploy there.

Gets things going with tributaries in kislev and laurelorn, since per boney theres pretty big delays if we just leave them to it. Laurelorn tributaries also i think takes some sting away from not giving them the first waystones

Investigates the ice witch network, while its not as useful as doing it *before* deployment, i think its fitting to do so alongside if nothing else. Among other things, i feel like it'd be awkward to do so *afterwards* in universe. Also as a matter of disclosure i think it will lead to the sort of Boney lore, worldbuilding, and writing-in-general that is absolutely my favorite :p

Make another waystone design, preferably a cheaper and more mass producible one, for shoring up already controlled areas
The kislev tributary action is, imo, the easiest to switch out for something else if needed for vote buying, since we've got waystones going up :p

EIC and KAU i am very open to changing, but those two are things i saw discussion of, and i think (in universe in particular) getting to the point where in-house scribes can make copies of our new haul makes sense

Eike's actions, i was thinking of putting her on the kislev network, but i dont think theres the same automatic "she's your apprentice of course she can be here" with the ice witches as with the dwarves? Might want to ask boney about that.


[ ] Plan Waystones and Webmat (College only design, Laurelorn First, 1 overwork)
[ ] Plan Waystones and Webmat (College only design, Laurelorn First, 1 overwork)
-[ ] Waystone: Deploy (Laurelorn)
--[ ] With Cadaeth, Hatalath, Sarvoi, and Thorek
-[ ] Tributary: International (Kislev)
--[ ] With Niedzwenka, Zlata
-[ ] Tributary: Dreaming Wood (Nordland)
--[ ] With Cadaeth, Hatalath, Tochter, Elrisse, and Aksel
-[ ] Waystone: Other Networks (Kislev)
--[ ] With Niedzwenka and Zlata
-[ ] EGRIMM: Attempt to create an Auditory Seviroscope/Winds Chime (Spend 2 CF for a Journeyman with Auditory Magesight to assist)
-[ ] MAX: Receive dictation: specify which two papers or one book will be written (Linguistic Drift in Lizardmen Glyphs (FADING), The Polyphenic Theory of Lizardmen Society (FADING))
-[ ] WEBMAT: Design a college only waystone
--[ ] Only us and webmat
--[ ] The Gambler
-[ ] SERENITY: Aethyric Vitae 2/2
-[ ] EIC: Found an auditors division, to make sure the ledgers are in order.
-[ ] KAU: Hire educators to teach a language or group of languages to your scribes (Eltharin)
-[ ] Eike Actions: EIC, KAU, Seviroscope, Waystone Design
-[ ] Eike Study: Enchanting class at the Grey College (paid in CF)
-[ ] Coin: the gambler
This plan is based on wanting to get webmat efficiency, and uses overwork as such, meaning its likely to put off the elfcation more.

Maintains the same deployment and research waystone options as above, so see those reasoning spoilers.

Switches out the everyone waystone design for a collegiate-only design that Boney confirmed can be a webmat action.

Other webmat actions are to work on the auditory seviroscope and to dictate some fading papers to max to help build our CF back up.

EIC and KAU are the same as above.

Eike gets put on EIC, KAU, and the two webmat experimentation projects. Can easily add on the dictation, or another study (I've seen some suggesting having her focus on learning the sound spell?). Might be good to give her slightly less than a 'full' slate and see what she does. Admittedly I need to go back and check how much we've given her before...

[ ] Plan Waystones and Webmat (College only design, Pragg First, 1 Overwork)
[ ] Plan Waystones and Webmat (College only design, Pragg First, 1 Overwork)
-[ ] Waystone: Deploy (Pragg)
--[ ] With Niedzwenka, Zlata, Sarvoi, and Thorek
-[ ] Tributary: International (Kislev)
--[ ] With Niedzwenka, Zlata
-[ ] Tributary: Dreaming Wood (Nordland)
--[ ] With Cadaeth, Hatalath, Tochter, Elrisse, and Aksel
-[ ] Waystone: Other Networks (Kislev)
--[ ] With Niedzwenka and Zlata
-[ ] EGRIMM: Attempt to create an Auditory Seviroscope/Winds Chime (Spend 2 CF for a Journeyman with Auditory Magesight to assist)
-[ ] MAX: Receive dictation: specify which two papers or one book will be written (Linguistic Drift in Lizardmen Glyphs (FADING), The Polyphenic Theory of Lizardmen Society (FADING))
-[ ] WEBMAT: Design a college only waystone
--[ ] Only us and webmat
--[ ] The Gambler
-[ ] SERENITY: Aethyric Vitae 2/2
-[ ] EIC: Found an auditors division, to make sure the ledgers are in order.
-[ ] KAU: Hire educators to teach a language or group of languages to your scribes (Eltharin)
-[ ] Eike Actions: EIC, KAU, Seviroscope, Waystone Design
-[ ] Eike Study: Enchanting class at the Grey College (paid in CF)
-[ ] Coin: the gambler
Literally the above plan but with pragg getting first deployment


[ ] Plan Waystones and Webmat (Two Waystone Designs, Laurelorn First, 1 overwork)
[ ] Plan Waystones and Webmat (Two Waystone Designs, Laurelorn First, 1 overwork)
-[ ] Waystone: Deploy (Laurelorn)
--[ ] With Cadaeth, Hatalath, Sarvoi, and Thorek
-[ ] Tributary: International (Kislev)
--[ ] With Niedzwenka, Zlata, and Aksel
-[ ] Waystone: Other Networks (Kislev)
--[ ] With Niedzwenka and Zlata
-[ ] Waystone: Build a Waystone
--[ ] With Elrisse, Thorek, Sarvoi, Hatalath, and Tochter
-[ ] EGRIMM: Attempt to create an Auditory Seviroscope/Winds Chime (Spend 2 CF for a Journeyman with Auditory Magesight to assist)
-[ ] MAX: Receive dictation: specify which two papers or one book will be written (Linguistic Drift in Lizardmen Glyphs (FADING), The Polyphenic Theory of Lizardmen Society (FADING))
-[ ] WEBMAT: Design a college only waystone
--[ ] Only us and webmat
--[ ] The Gambler
-[ ] SERENITY: Aethyric Vitae 2/2
-[ ] EIC: Found an auditors division, to make sure the ledgers are in order.
-[ ] KAU: Hire educators to teach a language or group of languages to your scribes (Eltharin)
-[ ] Eike Actions: EIC, KAU, Seviroscope, Waystone Design (webmat)
-[ ] Eike Study: Enchanting class at the Grey College (paid in CF)
-[ ] Coin: the gambler
This is a variant that drops one of the tributary actions (in this version the laurelorn ones, since its deploying the waystones there. Next turn we can do kislev waystones and laurelorn tributaries) in order to add back in a 'main waystone project' design. Now we can try for a webmat design that only uses collegiate means, and also for a broader option thats cheaper.

Of the two waystone designs, puts the gambler on the smaller webmat one

Otherwise everything should be the same as above.
[ ] Plan Waystones and Webmat (Two Waystone Designs, Pragg First, 1 overwork)
[ ] Plan Waystones and Webmat (Two Waystone Designs, Pragg First, 1 overwork)
-[ ] Waystone: Deploy (Pragg)
--[ ] With Niedzwenka, Zlata, Sarvoi, and Thorek
-[ ] Tributary: Dreaming Wood (Nordland)
--[ ] With Cadaeth, Hatalath, Tochter, Elrisse, and Aksel
-[ ] Waystone: Other Networks (Kislev)
--[ ] With Niedzwenka and Zlata
-[ ] Waystone: Build a Waystone
--[ ] With Elrisse, Thorek, Sarvoi, Hatalath, and Tochter
-[ ] EGRIMM: Attempt to create an Auditory Seviroscope/Winds Chime (Spend 2 CF for a Journeyman with Auditory Magesight to assist)
-[ ] MAX: Receive dictation: specify which two papers or one book will be written (Linguistic Drift in Lizardmen Glyphs (FADING), The Polyphenic Theory of Lizardmen Society (FADING))
-[ ] WEBMAT: Design a college only waystone
--[ ] Only us and webmat
--[ ] The Gambler
-[ ] SERENITY: Aethyric Vitae 2/2
-[ ] EIC: Found an auditors division, to make sure the ledgers are in order.
-[ ] KAU: Hire educators to teach a language or group of languages to your scribes (Eltharin)
-[ ] Eike Actions: EIC, KAU, Seviroscope, Waystone Design (webmat)
-[ ] Eike Study: Enchanting class at the Grey College (paid in CF)
-[ ] Coin: the gambler
And again, a "deploy first waystones to pragg' variant, so this one keeps the laurelorn tributary action while dropping the kislev one.
(Note: Should tochter be on the waystone deployment, given the need for a jade wizard for the river transmission system? I assume not, since the elves have access to ghyran users, but something i thought of while doing this)

(Note: I should consider aksel on the waystone design, assuming theres any support for a "cheap with maintenance needed" waystone using the hedgewise river transmission, though i think we'd either want leyline transmission (for a cheap one for controlled areas) or a non-maintenance river transmission (for cheaper ones to put out where we dont have a close enough waystone for leyline), which was why i didn't include him)
 
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If we do waystones for Pragg, it can also be a public repayment for the canal, everyone could think we garendeed the first waystones for it instead of murdered a head of state.
 
Parabola said:
Changes:
  • Instead of studying Kurgan enchanted weapons, we're going Nexus-hunting with Johann in the Forest of Gloom, which Boney has confirmed is valid. For good measure, I put the Gambler on there because it's an actual risk as opposed to the Auditory seviroscope, which may merely take more time if it fails.
  • Adds Aksel, Tochter and Elrisse to the Dreaming Wood action, because there is a need for politicking here on the human side. Two LMs (counting Mathilde), one Jade wizard and one actual local to Nordland that knows about Bad Forests should be able to make them understand that the Eonir are just trying to 'repair' their forest.
    • I'm aware that this is doubling up on Elrisse and Tochter but we've done that in past turns and there were zero issues. Particularly, the Dreaming Wood action includes Tochter's own personally-worked-on ritual, I don't think she'd mind.
  • Specifies doing Kislev deployment first.
  • Puts Eike on learning spells and not learning Khazalid or going to the Karak Vlag negotiation. I'm pretty sure Boney said that Eike is already slowly learning Khazalid, because she spends half her time in Karak Nar and even if it's mostly populated by humans, the locals have picked up enough Khazalid that she gets some.
    • She's literally training to be a wizard, she should actually be learning wizard things. She hasn't been learning actual spells since Turn 41, she should get back to that.

Please consider voting for this.
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Your reasoning for the first three changes sounds well thought out to me, and I'll swap them in to the original version when voting starts.

[ ] Plan You Must Deploy Additional Waystones
-[ ] Waystone: Deploy in Kislev (Praag Region) (first)
--[ ] With Zlata and Baba Niedzwenka
-[ ] Waystone: Deploy in the Empire (Sylvania)
--[ ] With Tochter and Elrisse
-[ ] Tributary: Dreaming Wood (Nordland)
--[ ] With Cadaeth, Sarvoi, Hatalath, Aksel, Tochter and Elrisse
-[ ] Waystone: Deploy in the Karaz Ankor (Black Water)
--[ ] With Thorek
-[ ] EGRIMM: Attempt to create an Auditory Seviroscope/Winds Chime (Spend 2 CF for a Journeyman with Auditory Magesight to assist)
--[ ] COIN: The Gambler
-[ ] MAX: Receive dictation: specify which two papers or one book will be written (Linguistic Drift in Lizardmen Glyphs (FADING), The Polyphenic Theory of Lizardmen Society (FADING))
-[ ] JOHANN: Waystone: Seek the lost Black Fire Pass Nexus (The Gambler)
-[ ] SERENITY: Aethyric Vitae 2/2
-[ ] EIC: Assist in the creation of the magical route through the Schadensumpf, both personally and with the EIC's influence and resources
-[ ] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (Karak Vlag)
-[ ] Eike Actions: Auditory Seviroscope, EIC action, KAU action
-[ ] Eike Study: Enchanting class at the Grey College (paid in CF), learn Khazalid
-[ ] Overwork: 1 AP
I think three Enchantment related events is enough of a wizarding education for one turn, and one of the things Mathilde learned early on in Stirland was not to rely too much on magic, so I like the idea of Mathilde making sure Eike's skillset is more well rounded. I do think progressing on her spell repertoire is important, so I'd support doing spells in the turn after.

As for picking up Khazalid passively, if in theory she's spent just as much time in Laurelorn as in Karag Nar, then why hasn't she picked up Khazalid like she has with Yen-Eltharin? I'd say it's because we've spent actions involving her in Eonir things, but we haven't spent many actions involving her in Dwarf things, and you can get by in Karag Nar without any Khazalid because the culture there is a mix of Imperial/Tilean, with the lingua franca being a mix of Reikspiel and Tilean, so there's much less immersion. If we continue to not involve her in dwarf related things, then I doubt she'll pick up Khazalid any time soon.
 
I love WEBMAT plans, but trying a collegiate waystone with only the boys seems more than a little hubristic. Sure we aren't losing *that* much pure college brainpower and only one internal viewpoint, but I'd feel a lot better with them on board. And for that matter some elfpower in case there's a really simple answer in the four unrepresented Winds that might never occur to us.
 
ReImagined said:
As for picking up Khazalid passively, if in theory she's spent just as much time in Laurelorn as in Karag Nar, then why hasn't she picked up Khazalid like she has with Yen-Eltharin? I'd say it's because we've spent actions involving her in Eonir things, but we haven't spent many actions involving her in Dwarf things, and you can get by in Karag Nar without any Khazalid because the culture there is a mix of Imperial/Tilean, with the lingua franca being a mix of Reikspiel and Tilean, so there's much less immersion. If we continue to not involve her in dwarf related things, then I doubt she'll pick up Khazalid any time soon.
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Eike started out with a bit of Eltharin because the Grey College teaches it for its ciphers. Then we took her on culture-learning because we ourselves wanted to boost our understanding of the Eonir, and that accelerated the process tremendously because she was actively immersing herself in it.

You're right that she'll learn faster if we actually tell her to prioritize it, but... well, I just think I want to keep the amount of things she learns short for this turn. Boney's previously said that the less she has on her plate, the more she'll focus her attention on individual things. In this case, spell-learning and enchantment.

That said, I don't really mind. I'll approval vote your updated plan when the voting starts.
 
MrHobbit said:
There's several barriers I foresee in that. The first is base skill. Eike doesn't have much applicable knowledge for scouting. Mathilde has several skills related to it. She has completed 2/3 of scouting and has Advanced Infiltration. She also has Warrior of Fog which gives +10 to scouting while in command of forces. So that will shorten the stuff that Mathilde needs to learn, in comparison to Eike. Mathilde is also very skilled at subterfuge. I could easily see her keeping Eike from noticing her training subconsciously. The worst is the language barrier. Karak Azul's rangers are unlikely to speak Reikspiel. You have Eike learning Khazalid, but Mathilde obviously has a much greater grasp of the language. And a few months isn't a lot of time to learn languages.

Mathilde doesn't even really need to hide her lack of knowledge here. Eike just doesn't have the knowledge to even notice it. In my opinion, you would want to bring Eike to a different Karak for that to be a real possibility. Karak Vlag, Karak Kadrin, and the Grey Mountains should have rangers who speak Reikspiel. Karak Vlag would mean talking to Snorri again. Karak Hirn would be an opportunity to talk to Ulthar.
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I see where you're coming from, but ultimately the raison d'etre of that action is "give Eike real combat experience in a relatively safe environment" and "gain the narrative benefits of competence in Scouting," and the potential ancillary benefits are, well, ancillary.
Nimbus said:
Probably true; still, best to have explicit rather than implicit intent!
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Heads-up since you're new to the thread: it has historically been a source of frustration to Boney when folks micromanage, so I try to avoid it and only recommend it for cases where you specifically want something that is not an obvious part of the action. When the update has a line like this:
Boney said:
Rightly or wrongly, the world will be paying attention to who the first major beneficiary of the Waystone Project will be.
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...it feels pretty redundant to me to say "make a big production out of it." Mathilde understands spectacle and showmanship. She embraces that aspect of Ulgu. We don't need to poke her about it.
 
A mechanical point on the above themes: we should try to have as many representatives of the Waystone Project's member organisations at the first Waystone's inauguration as possible. I notice that a lot of plans have representatives from Laurelorn, Kislev and the Colleges but leave Thorek out, for example, which I would argue is a misstep when trying to project unity. This is especially true if Praag is chosen, given the dwarves' assistance during the Great War Against Chaos. (Maximising the number of Colleges with representatives present would also be good but isn't so critical.)

Once again, this is something that doesn't really cost anything, so we may as well do it, especially if plans have Project members who aren't doing anything else at the time.

picklepikkl said:
Heads-up since you're new to the thread: it has historically been a source of frustration to Boney when folks micromanage, so I try to avoid it and only recommend it for cases where you specifically want something that is not an obvious part of the action.
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Got it; appreciate the guidance! (With that in mind, have made a couple of changes to plan proposal.)
 
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consequences said:
I love WEBMAT plans, but trying a collegiate waystone with only the boys seems more than a little hubristic. Sure we aren't losing *that* much pure college brainpower and only one internal viewpoint, but I'd feel a lot better with them on board. And for that matter some elfpower in case there's a really simple answer in the four unrepresented Winds that might never occur to us.
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I agree that overall having the broader team would be helpful, but the advantage of the webmat only design is action efficiency, imo. If we want (as i do) to have 3-4 different designs floating around, i think a relatively hubristic chance to get an extra collegiate one squeezed out with WEBMAT action efficiency is worth considering. I'd also support ones where we use that slot to seek the blackfire pass nexus, preferably one that also fits in a 'regular' waystone design action, but i feel like having more design choices right away is useful

Edit to avoid double post:
Nimbus said:
I notice that a lot of plans have representatives from Laurelorn, Kislev and the Colleges but leave Thorek out, for exampl
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Thorek also i feel should be there anyway since, unless i'm missing something, our design requires dwarves to do the rune, so he should be involved in setting up whatever contracts/arrangements there are for getting a dwarf on site for that. That's part of setting up the production chain, you know?
 
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Abby Normal said:
Thorek also i feel should be there anyway since, unless i'm missing something, our design requires dwarves to do the rune, so he should be involved in setting up whatever contracts/arrangements there are for getting a dwarf on site for that. That's part of setting up the production chain, you know?
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No need:

Boney said:
Parabola said:
Should we include specific Project members for the deployment action? Like, should we include the members who'd be presumably contributing X component to our current waystone, like Hatalath and Thorek and Tochter, at a minimum? Or not, for simplicity's sake, since Mathilde would be talking to these people anyway?
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Just assign people you want on hand for political wrangling and/or logistical troubleshooting. Mathilde will be handing off component construction to an off-screen team.
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I imagine the whole crew will likely be there for the inaguration but that's like a day of their time, not something they need to spend six months doing.
 
Parabola said:
No need:


I imagine the whole crew will likely be there for the inaguration but that's like a day of their time, not something they need to spend six months doing.
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"How do we make sure that theres a dwarven runesmith on site to do a thing that requires access to the (nearly) final product rather than being able to ship in parts, for the duration of the production schedule, for each waystone as they are produced" feels like a logistical issue? Remember that thorek waited until everything but the detatched granite river-spike was assembled before doing the runework, afterall
 
organicAI said:
If we do waystones for Pragg, it can also be a public repayment for the canal, everyone could think we garendeed the first waystones for it instead of murdered a head of state.
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Why would Laurelorn be paying for the canal though?

As far as I can tell this is a Laurelorn hosted project that they've done most of the work on. It's more there's than anyone else's. What do they get out of a canal in Kislev?
 
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