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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Briefvoice said:
So it's been so long since it was originally discussed, what do Orbs of sorcery actually do within the context of the Quest (as opposed to game stats)?

My vague understanding is that they let you do more powerful magic, and the Colleges currently only have one of each? Are they basically giant batteries for a given Wind? Can they be run dry, or do we now suspect that they can run dry due to how they are created, which might not previously have been known due to them being used infrequently?
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They're just big powerstones, basically.

But big powestones are very useful!

Boney said:
Particularly large Power Stones with a heap of sentimental value and a dash of the tired old 'we can't make these any more!' that GW can't stop themselves from throwing in everywhere. I'm of the opinion that there's nothing a Orb of Sorcery can do that a good handful of Power Stones can't.
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Also the colleges have various magical doodads that are designed to be powered by orbs of sorcery.
 
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Briefvoice said:
So it's been so long since it was originally discussed, what do Orbs of sorcery actually do within the context of the Quest (as opposed to game stats)?

My vague understanding is that they let you do more powerful magic, and the Colleges currently only have one of each? Are they basically giant batteries for a given Wind? Can they be run dry, or do we now suspect that they can run dry due to how they are created, which might not previously have been known due to them being used infrequently?
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The Colleges have more than one of each.
Boney said:
Tobtorp said:
Let's just ask, this is definitely something Mathilde would know.
@Boney is there only one set of orbs with the colleges right now or are there multiple?
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Multiple.
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They're generally used to power Battle Altars like Luminarks. I'd guess that they can be consumed, just as powerstones can be, but they usually aren't, and act as capacitors that make it easier for magic to affect reality, just as powerstones do.
 
DeusFerreus said:
I can see it getting misplaced/stolen/secreted away during the Time of Three Emperors (and Cult of Sigmar having a counterfeit one made in response), but agree on it being fake through the most of Empire's history being dumb.
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It is that whole unrealizable source thing. Plenty of people would have reasons to say it's fake even if it isn't. Also with how many legends and stories there are about it at this point even if it called down lightening and allowed it's holder to fly like the mighty Thor it still might seem underwhelming.
 
Briefvoice said:
So it's been so long since it was originally discussed, what do Orbs of sorcery actually do within the context of the Quest (as opposed to game stats)?

My vague understanding is that they let you do more powerful magic, and the Colleges currently only have one of each? Are they basically giant batteries for a given Wind? Can they be run dry, or do we now suspect that they can run dry due to how they are created, which might not previously have been known due to them being used infrequently?
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An enchantment that incorporates a power stone can have a more powerful effect that lasts longer. An enchantment that incorporates an orb of sorcery can have a hugely more powerful effect. Their main use is to 'power' Battle Altars, magical siege weapons that can fire off Battle Magic again and again and again while having secondary effects on the scale of an entire battlefield.

Thinking of the orbs as giant batteries is a useful shorthand but it's technically wrong. They aren't supplying magic to the enchantment they're incorporated into, they make the area around the enchantment more conducive to that particular Wind, meaning the enchantment has to fight less against the inertia of reality to achieve what it's trying to achieve. They don't get drained because there's nothing being taken out of them.
 
fictionfan said:
It is that whole unrealizable source thing. Plenty of people would have reasons to say it's fake even if it isn't. Also with how many legends and stories there are about it at this point even if it called down lightening and allowed it's holder to fly like the mighty Thor it still might seem underwhelming.
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I think its more the tension between The Warhammer of Warhammer needing to be present frequently in the narrative, and the need for it to be sufficiently awesome when the chips are down and the world's fate is in the balance.

Personally, I think it should normally be "sleeping" as just a very powerful runic weapon. But when the winds blow, and it is wielded by the truly worthy it should be this absurd item out of legend that can change the course of the world with but one swing.
 
Boney said:
An enchantment that incorporates a power stone can have a more powerful effect that lasts longer. An enchantment that incorporates an orb of sorcery can have a hugely more powerful effect. Their main use is to 'power' Battle Altars, magical siege weapons that can fire off Battle Magic again and again and again while having secondary effects on the scale of an entire battlefield.

Thinking of the orbs as giant batteries is a useful shorthand but it's technically wrong. They aren't supplying magic to the enchantment they're incorporated into, they make the area around the enchantment more conducive to that particular Wind, meaning the enchantment has to fight less against the inertia of reality to achieve what it's trying to achieve. They don't get drained because there's nothing being taken out of them.
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So they kind of act like staff's do for wizards, but just for enchantments? Could one be incorporated into a staff and get benefit from it, or would that be unhelpful?
 
French Cowboy said:
So they kind of act like staff's do for wizards, but just for enchantments? Could one be incorporated into a staff and get benefit from it, or would that be unhelpful?
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It might theoretically be possible, but the Colleges aren't keen on plugging one of their very limited number of orbs into a staff and hoping the Wizard they give it to figures out how to cast with it before they explode the neighbourhood.
 
Boney said:
While they've been short on deliverables, there's been at least three or four things that would have been an action to investigate if the Elves weren't there to just outright tell you what the deal was with it.
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Let's see...
  • Possibly: Cadaeth casually going 'yeah magic flows are easier to maintain across cardinal/ordinal lines'.
  • Sarvoi immediately cottoning on to how two Winds are dropped into the leylines to create Dhar and thus create a pull toward to Vortex.
  • Sarvoi going "hey the leylines' intelligence could be Caledor"
  • ...there's gotta be more than that, but my mind is blanking.

Boney said:
Magnus was just one nobleborn university student among very many in Nuln at the beginning of the Great War, but when all the portents got dire and cult uprisings kept happening and the twin-tailed comet appeared in the sky and all the Emperor claimants just used it as one more reason to insist everyone should fall in behind them so they can crush the others and then maybe do something about Chaos afterwards, Magnus pretty much said 'fine, I'll do it myself'. He rallied the students and faculty to defeat the cult uprising in Nuln, and then rallied the rest of the city to go on tour, crushing chaos wherever he found it and recruiting more people to his banner the whole way. The demonstration of Godly authority in Altdorf, Talabheim, Middenheim, and Marienburg weren't what got him the army, it's what got the Emperor claimants to fall into line behind the army he already had. It's only after he got back from Kislev with a fantatically loyal and extremely battle-hardened army at his back (including the first generation of what would becomes the Orders of Magic) that the Electors finally reached a consensus and gave him the top job. A lot of them were probably hoping he wouldn't make it back.
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As ever, one cannot underestimate the influence of public opinion, regardless of any legal power.

ReImagined said:
They're generally used to power Battle Altars like Luminarks. I'd guess that they can be consumed, just as powerstones can be, but they usually aren't, and act as capacitors that make it easier for magic to affect reality, just as powerstones do.
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It's never been tried, but Boney has said the results are probably something like "gives you enough power to cast a Calamity spell without a Storm of Magic and with Irresistible Force, and then you immediately die".

It's been the subject of one omake, IIRC, which features Mathilde using one against a hypothetical Everchosen with a bunch of Whispering Darkness Apparitions, going out in a blaze of glory.

French Cowboy said:
So they kind of act like staff's do for wizards, but just for enchantments? Could one be incorporated into a staff and get benefit from it, or would that be unhelpful?
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I think some High Elf models feature them having Orbs on their staffs, but that's High Elves, which are infinitely more experienced/have a bigger knowledge base to draw from when it comes to magic, and as Boney says, they don't have a limited number of Orbs to use.

Boney has also said that the smallest the Colleges have been able to get enchantments with an Orb of Sorcery is Battle Altars, IIRC.
 
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I suppose that an ulgu Morb topped staff is a potential avenue of research to look into in the future then.

Leveling neighborhoods sounds like it might be very helpful when we're in the wastelands of nagarythe

So long as it is a controlled type of leveling
 
Boney said:
It might theoretically be possible, but the Colleges aren't keen on plugging one of their very limited number of orbs into a staff and hoping the Wizard they give it to figures out how to cast with it before they explode the neighbourhood.
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Mathilde: "Okay, Ranald, I'm gonna do something both daring and groundbreaking, not because it will make me powerful, but because seeing everyone's reactions will be highly amusing."

It sounds like Mathilde will want to make another batch of Orbs of Sorcery so that she can have one for herself. Maybe employ a good future-telling Celestial to get a heads-up if her approach will lead to exploding the neighborhood.
 
Boney said:
It might theoretically be possible, but the Colleges aren't keen on plugging one of their very limited number of orbs into a staff and hoping the Wizard they give it to figures out how to cast with it before they explode the neighbourhood.
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Also I am given to understand that orbs of sorcery are big enough that they would seems really weird to put on a staff. Like at least head sized.
 
Boney said:
The Waystone Project, Research

[ ] Waystone: Experiment with alternatives to the Waystone Rune
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Is there anything to read into the Waystone Rune alternative action being placed under Research rather than Development?

Anyways, I don't want to do that action this turn, but I do want to count chickens before they hatch. Obviously put Hatalath and Thorek on it. Sarvoi might be good too.

Zlata might be able to do... something. Idk. Maybe we put Baba Niedzwenka and try the frowning strategy and hope it doesn't result in Boyar Schmuckovich trying anything again? Maybe she'll roll well even if we don't? She wasn't a part of the Rune research action, but I don't really see how adding her could hurt. Tochter and Elrisee would be good choices too. I'm sure the Belthani looked into the Rune and we know Nehekhara did.
 
fictionfan said:
Also I am given to understand that orbs of sorcery are big enough that they would seems really weird to put on a staff. Like at least head sized.
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It'd be a bit top-heavy, but that just means you need a counterweight on the other end. Like a second Orb of Sorcery.

It'd look a little odd, but looking odd has certainly never stopped Wizards in this setting from wearing magically useful stuff.
 
Boney said:
Andres said:
Boney said:
Before this gets too far out of hand, 'try it and find out' does not mean 'try it and succeed'. That no Orb-topped staffs currently exist probably indicates something more significant than 'nobody thought of it yet'.
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But I mean...they do exist? High elf monowind mages use them in Total Warhammer and in the old models. I think the reason other factions don't have orb-topped staffs is either because they can't make orbs in the first place - like Bretonnia - or because they prefer multi-wind casting - like the dark elves.
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I meant in the Colleges. There's a gulf between something being achievable by anyone ever and something being achievable right now with your available knowledge and resources. If the smallest thing that's ever been made by the Colleges that incorporates an Orb of Sorcery is the size of a caravan, maybe that implies some obstacles in the way of something that can be waved around in a single hand.
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Staves that incorporate Orbs of Sorcery exist but the Colleges can't make them.

Maybe given a couple more sets they could start experimenting, though.
 
GrimTheMad said:
Staves that incorporate Orbs of Sorcery exist but the Colleges can't make them.

Maybe given a couple more sets they could start experimenting, though.
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Yeah, those were the quotes I was thinking of.

We could technically experiment on our own, and perhaps we'd get further along than others have tried because a) we'd be willing to risk losing an Orb, b) we have a Room of Calamity and c) we have The Gambler on our side. But it's not a guarantee in any sense and I'm sure everyone would feel more comfortable doing so with instructions from Teclis or whatever.

...Also, have the Colleges even figured out how to make staffs topped with regular power stones? I feel like there was a WoB along those lines but I can't find it.
 
Boney said:
It might theoretically be possible, but the Colleges aren't keen on plugging one of their very limited number of orbs into a staff and hoping the Wizard they give it to figures out how to cast with it before they explode the neighbourhood.
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.... You are aware that given the college history of mad science...someone is going to try it now that it is possible to get replacements
 
[X] Plan Ithilmar, Enchantment and Exploration Language Edition
[X] Plan Pondering Orbs and Nuts (no Eike on KAU)
 
GrimTheMad said:
Staves that incorporate Orbs of Sorcery exist but the Colleges can't make them.

Boney said:
Before this gets too far out of hand, 'try it and find out' does not mean 'try it and succeed'. That no Orb-topped staffs currently exist probably indicates something more significant than 'nobody thought of it yet'.
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Andres said:
But I mean...they do exist? High elf monowind mages use them in Total Warhammer and in the old models. I think the reason other factions don't have orb-topped staffs is either because they can't make orbs in the first place - like Bretonnia - or because they prefer multi-wind casting - like the dark elves.
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Boney said:
I meant in the Colleges. There's a gulf between something being achievable by anyone ever and something being achievable right now with your available knowledge and resources. If the smallest thing that's ever been made by the Colleges that incorporates an Orb of Sorcery is the size of a caravan, maybe that implies some obstacles in the way of something that can be waved around in a single hand.
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Maybe given a couple more sets they could start experimenting, though.
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Hmmm.

Staves incorporating Orbs of sorcery exist but only for Elves and humans can't make them. If only we were considering visiting somewhere where the most skilled Elven mono-Grey wind users were congregated in the next turn or two.

People like... the Shadows Warriors.

Now certainly even if we did very well in our Druchii hunt we couldn't expect so princely a gift as an orb of sorcery. But perhaps if we supplied the materials? Do we still have Drycha's legs? Imagine if we could get an elven master enchanter to take a crack at making Mathilde a staff with Drycha's legs and an orb of sorcery.
 
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