Multiple.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
If we take the action we'll see what options we have I certainly don't think it's impossible for Mathilde to find a way to broker a peace, perhaps we could fail but I think it's worth it to try :
Foreign Relations:
[ ] Involve yourself in current affairs: specify what and how (Nordland/Eonir tensions).
Current examples: Eastern Stirland pacification, Marienburg affair, Black Waters project
There is actually something that could solve the Nordland issue , money. Trading in elf goods would make them a lot of money. Enough money the Elcector count would find his objections to the elves greatly hinder. Now these is subjective because we do not know the elector count so I am basing it that human greed. Which never underestimate humans greed.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
The main craftsman house is part of the Isolationist faction. It's not exactly clear if there's interest in exporting.
But it is not the only one, also the elf guilds are not completely based off the houses, or seems to from what Mathilde knows. Even what the elves consider portly made goods sell well to humans. Really it is finding something the elves would want that be the problem.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
We know from meeting them that it's because they're worried about competing with Ulthuan in a market the dominant trading power of the world has saturated, not realising that actually elven goods are still extraordinarily rare in the Empire, at least in part due to Marienburg's games. It's probably entirely feasible to flip their opinion on the subject.
Of course, cramming in such an action seems a difficult prospect.
Seeing how Thorek was negociating the sale of marble, I'd guess that Laurelorn would pretty much be interested in things they don't have access to from inside their forest.
Perhaps guns could also be part of a deal, we could build a weapon factory in Nordland and export to Laurelorn. The beastmen would be pretty screwed...
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Boney's already said that selling military arms to the faction currently in a hostile relationship with an Imperial province would be Bad.
Midland would also wants to trade and one of the options is use the road the elves have going into Nordland to also trade with Midland.
I'm thinking of after hostilities have ended of course, or perhaps part of the peace treaty a way to favorise further cooperation.
- Location
- Somewhere between the stars
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I think the Nordland and Laurelon problem should be less approched as, how to we keep Nordland satisfied, and more so, how to we ensure the rest of the imperial provinces that a war isn't a profitable endeavour.
As it currently stands, Nordland has way more to gain, from comquering Laurelon then they'd have by just trading. Laurelon is frssh in good, not spooky forest timber, presumely has gold and silver veins and if they manage to take over the city, they'd be able get some elven citizen's due to the fact that some elves would serve whatever goverment is currently ruling.
As situation stands, there is little Nordland wouldn't gain, that they wouldn't get more from just conquering the forest.
What's stopping Nordland, is, as been pointed out and seems to be general belief of the elves and empire, that Nordland alone will always lose against Laurelon, but the empire together will triumph.
The way i see it, is that the current solution is to make sure the rest of the imperial provinces don't see a need to go to war with Laurelon. Nordland will always have plenty of huge reasons for going to war, and that fact won't change, no matter how much trade we throw at Nordland.
What will make them far less willing, is if they have to go at it alone, or even have to beef and spend political capital to make other Elector count agree with them.
In time, as new descendes are born this situation may change, into a more amiable one, but as it stands, i think we should focus on making it so it's far more troublesome for Nordland to go to war then not.
The other provinces are the ones without huge reasons, and therfor the ones we have a more reasonable chance of getting on our side
As it currently stands, Nordland has way more to gain, from comquering Laurelon then they'd have by just trading. Laurelon is frssh in good, not spooky forest timber, presumely has gold and silver veins and if they manage to take over the city, they'd be able get some elven citizen's due to the fact that some elves would serve whatever goverment is currently ruling.
As situation stands, there is little Nordland wouldn't gain, that they wouldn't get more from just conquering the forest.
What's stopping Nordland, is, as been pointed out and seems to be general belief of the elves and empire, that Nordland alone will always lose against Laurelon, but the empire together will triumph.
The way i see it, is that the current solution is to make sure the rest of the imperial provinces don't see a need to go to war with Laurelon. Nordland will always have plenty of huge reasons for going to war, and that fact won't change, no matter how much trade we throw at Nordland.
What will make them far less willing, is if they have to go at it alone, or even have to beef and spend political capital to make other Elector count agree with them.
In time, as new descendes are born this situation may change, into a more amiable one, but as it stands, i think we should focus on making it so it's far more troublesome for Nordland to go to war then not.
The other provinces are the ones without huge reasons, and therfor the ones we have a more reasonable chance of getting on our side
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
This isn't true; the action you quoted says we need to specify how we're involving ourselves.
We can't just be like "hey boney wat do", we have to have a plan in mind and write it in.
This is possible: essentially bribe Nordland with fat stacks of cash by e.g. getting the EIC to establish trade routes through them to Laurelorn. There's the issue that the EIC is currently not set up for overland trade through Nordland, but maybe they can partner with someone who is. They get a monopoly on overland elf trade, Laurelorn gets a reduction in tensions, everyone calms the fuck down and backs away from their weapons, everyone wins.
...everyone except Middenland, which is why I'm not super sanguine about this as a solution. Middenland has a strong incentive to be Laurelorn's best buddy. If Laurelorn starts giving fat stacks of cash to a rival province, that guarantees those elf goods (and money from trade) are never going through Middenland. If we try to do this, I expect Middenland will want a concession of a different kind from Laurelorn to assuage out its concerns about the local balance of power shifting towards Nordland.
(Unless, of course, I'm off-base, which sadly has been known to happen. Boney, if you get the chance and feel inclined to answer so I can check my work: what's Mathilde's best appraisal of what Middenland sees as the primary value of its Laurelorn alliance, and would it be threatened by Laurelorn increasing economic ties with Nordland? "She doesn't know enough to say with any confidence" is a reasonable answer, obviously.)
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Sure Nordland would gain more from conquering Laurelorn than trading... But they'd need to actually do it. One bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
If we want to cash in on solving the issue, I'd rather have a plan that doesn't involve waiting for the people involved to die...
Other provinces don't really have any reason to enthusiasticly send their armies into the elven death forest. Even Nordlanders probably don't particularily relish the idea of invading into a forest populated by centuries old warriors and powerful spirits.
If we can provide a decent alternative I'd think that there is a good chance that the Nordland EC would at the very least listen.
Noted. I had missed it.
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Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
it definitely sounds like we may want the Hochlander to look into political landscape of Middenland and Nordland at some point to see what our options are. That might be worthwhile, if any new Sunken Palace -related actions aren't that appealing.
Your absolutely correct. What's the alternative? The trade might work, but as pointed out that might anger middenland. And nordland did lose several villages and thinks it lost 10 000 people (we can't really tell them they didn't without invoking a diplomatic incident with the dwarfs)
- Pronouns
- They/It
"Congratulations Eike, I've almost deemed you ready to begin your journeying proper. But first a reward. Just head on over to Lothern real quick and we can talk when you get back. Show this to the seaguard and they'll take you to an important experience you'll never forget!"
🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔 Maybe more appropriate as a proper graduation gift to Magister than a "Good Luck Out There Apprentice!" going away treat lol.
🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔 Maybe more appropriate as a proper graduation gift to Magister than a "Good Luck Out There Apprentice!" going away treat lol.
- Location
- USA
3 days later...
Mathilde: "That was quick. What happened to 99 days?"
Eike: "They said this thing applies to you specifically, and I have to earn my own."
Mathilde: "You could've tried to pretend to be me."
Eike: "Master, there's a palpable difference between reckless and suicidal. Maybe your time with your and the Empress' mutual friend has distorted your view, though."
- Location
- Netherlands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yeah, I think the biggest problem we have regarding the Nordland-Laurelorn tensions at the moment is our total lack of intel on the Nordland side. We know Laurelorn is stable in that regard for the time being, but Nordland?
Is it stable? Are they still figuring out what to do? Are they actively trying to take action? What factions are advocating for which courses of action, and which of them hold power in which aspects? Who could we negotiate with, who is a problem? We just don't really know.
I think using the EIC to get more insight into Nordland is something we should do soon. Until we actually know what Nordland's deal is, any solution we try to come up can easily have critical flaws.
So: get intel first, THEN start coming up with the clever solutions.
Said this before, sorta, but...
Perhaps, maybe what might help Okri's efforts, could be checking in on the Gold College and seeing how far they've gotten into reverse-engineering the loot in the 4-ish years since. And then, once we've done that, we could potentially see about making connections between Okri and the Gold College. Or rather, at that point, we might be in the position to see if looking into that might prove profitable.
This could all happen naturally over time. If Adela and/or Okri think of reaching out to the Gold College. But Mathilde has the connections and reputation, among the Colleges and not just the Dwarfs, to be able to make this happen faster and more smoothly.
Or it doesn't have to be collaboration exactly per se. It could just be, like, buying stuff from the Gold College. Feldmann wanted to reverse engineer the technology and from that not just advance our own, but also learn how to fight Skaven better -- which our big book already helped with, but having Skaven technology on hand or reproducible means you can train to face that in an opfor team, and stuff. The difference between book learning, even if good learning, and military or engineering practice and drill. But, that sort of aid might not just aid the Empire, perhaps it could be of aid to the Dwarfs too. ((While it's not like the Dwarfs haven't fought against the Skaven for long enough to have examples of their tech, of course, but. They also probably hate their blasphemous works. Also, this is a more recent capture of Skaven technology. And in greater numbers too.))
So yeah. At first I just wanted to look in on the K8P gunnery school out of maybe-concern. Now, I want to check with the Gold College so we could have an idea if they'd have anything that would be useful to Okri and his ambitions/hopes and to the human Gunnery School too.
A whole smorgasbord of Okri, Gunnery School, and Gold College cooperation and coordination. And lots of walls of death for our enemies.
I wanna check on our Gunnery School. At first, because I was a bit worried. But after rereading the bit with Okri again...
Now? Now, I'm actually wondering if it was a optimistic potential sign from the Celestials. Okri working with Adela, and the looted Skaven books, and the human Gunnery school... Okri having plans, ambitious plans... The Celestials statement first looked like an ominous omen (and it still might be) but now I'm wondering if it might have also had the potential for a "wow holy shit" outcome too.
Perhaps, maybe what might help Okri's efforts, could be checking in on the Gold College and seeing how far they've gotten into reverse-engineering the loot in the 4-ish years since. And then, once we've done that, we could potentially see about making connections between Okri and the Gold College. Or rather, at that point, we might be in the position to see if looking into that might prove profitable.
This could all happen naturally over time. If Adela and/or Okri think of reaching out to the Gold College. But Mathilde has the connections and reputation, among the Colleges and not just the Dwarfs, to be able to make this happen faster and more smoothly.
Or it doesn't have to be collaboration exactly per se. It could just be, like, buying stuff from the Gold College. Feldmann wanted to reverse engineer the technology and from that not just advance our own, but also learn how to fight Skaven better -- which our big book already helped with, but having Skaven technology on hand or reproducible means you can train to face that in an opfor team, and stuff. The difference between book learning, even if good learning, and military or engineering practice and drill. But, that sort of aid might not just aid the Empire, perhaps it could be of aid to the Dwarfs too. ((While it's not like the Dwarfs haven't fought against the Skaven for long enough to have examples of their tech, of course, but. They also probably hate their blasphemous works. Also, this is a more recent capture of Skaven technology. And in greater numbers too.))
So yeah. At first I just wanted to look in on the K8P gunnery school out of maybe-concern. Now, I want to check with the Gold College so we could have an idea if they'd have anything that would be useful to Okri and his ambitions/hopes and to the human Gunnery School too.
A whole smorgasbord of Okri, Gunnery School, and Gold College cooperation and coordination. And lots of walls of death for our enemies.
- Location
- USA
Oswald runs the Gunnery School, and Adela's aunt married him. Since Adela is Mathilde's new gyrocopter pilot, Mathilde could just ask her how it's going. And yeah, prod her this way and that if we want to.
dinomannitro6
all your gender is belong to us
- Location
- The Land Where The Sunflowers Bloom
I think there already is. In that quote you gave hes "been exchanging letters with the Gorlzhufokral" (aka the gold college)
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
If we did try to "grow" an Ulgu Power Stone into an Ulgu rune, we might as well do the other 7 winds at the same time, given the 8-way split required. Perhaps some kind of mold or cast to fill out in the shape of the respective rune?
Yeah, remember that time when Middenland sent their holy warriors into Nordland with the explicit goal of massacring ten thousand citizens of Nordland? Even if they weren't totally comfortable with it and they ended up relieved instead of outraged when it went sideways on them, that they saw it as a price they were willing to pay at all is indicative that Middenland-Nordland relations aren't exactly rosy. Middenland and Nordland fight like two cats in a sack on religious, cultural, economic, and racial grounds. Middenland wouldn't just rather they get the trade profits instead of Nordland, Middenland would see no trade as preferable to trade that profits Nordland. And both they and Laurelorn have pretty strong grounds to paint Nordland as the villain in this saga, so would firmly reject the framing that Nordland's former economic prosperity should be restored at all, since it was built on stolen land and felled lornalim.
Hey, remember the time when Drakwald collapsed and Middenland was able to snip off a big chunk of it and greatly increase their power and wealth and prestige? Because Middenland probably does. Their God is Ulric, not the status quo.