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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Harried said:
If you had two copies of the same guy fight, and you gave one of them the widowmaker, and the other the fellblade, who would win, and how big would the explosion be?
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Karugus said:
I'm pretty sure Widowmaker is explicitly the most powerful weapon in the setting. Full stop, do not pass go, move over Everchosen, etc. Granted I think we've only ever seen Aenarion use it not counting End Times- but everything from him rolling over Greater Daemons without the Vortex nerfing them to the horrific bloodline curse activated just by wielding it suggests it's the real deal. I mean even the Fellblade only kills it's user.
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Widowmaker is basically a Runefang with Multiple Wounds (d6). Fellblade is S10, re-roll Ward saves and also Multiple Wounds (d6). Strength 10 means that it ignores armor just as readily as Widowmaker and wounds most stuff on 2+ (while Widowmaker auto-wounds). So Fellblade is better against heroes, slightly worse against mooks, worse against T9-T10 monsters without ward save. It also kills wielder at the rate of 1 wound in 3 rounds in average.

TL;DR: If the guy in question has decent Ward save, then the copy with Fellblade would win.

Tyrion in end times also has a bunch of special rules due to being Avatar of Khaine, it is unclear whether or not any other wielder of Widowmaker would benefit from them.

Derpmind said:
...actually, framing it as a numbers thing is foolish. Nothing our unnamed belt gives us is statistically modeled.

Fake edit: Turns out on the character sheet the belt's been named Belt of the Unshackled Mountain. Which TBH is a really badass name.
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It gives +1T to tabletop statline. Hits from rune of Vengeance are also modeled in TT battles.

DragonParadox said:
I feel like I've said this over and over again, but here it is again. A character in warhammer can equip precisely three magic items with continuous effect:
  1. Armor: can't be used with arcane magic unless you are a chaos worshiper
  2. Talisman: we already have one
  3. Weapon: which we are talking about now
Even if a dwarf rune of silence exists (which I doubt because sneaking about is not very prestigious for them and thus would not merit rune support) we could not stick it on a sword.
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There are also shields. And it seems like everyone and their dog can cast in armor except non-Chaos humans:
-You mentioned chaos worshippers
-Vampires do it
-Loremasters of Hoeth do it
-Malekith does it
 
Kornet said:
Oh, I agree. I just don't see any way to get a really tricked out sniper rifle for a lot of dwarf favour - the cap would be (relatively to discussed relic swords) rather low.
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That's why we get a tricked out scope and bullets.
They have been making telescopes and appraisers eyepieces for a hell of a lot longer than guns, so the scope should be doable. Then I'm just imagining Gromril runic bullets of some type.
 
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LockedMind said:
There are also shields. And it seems like everyone and their dog can cast in armor except non-Chaos humans:
-You mentioned chaos worshippers
-Vampires do it
-Loremasters of Hoeth do it
-Malekith does it
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That's the disadvantage of being puny humans without in order:
  1. Daemon Gods
  2. The dark miracle of the Elixir of Life
  3. A tradition of arcane magic going back to the dawn of recorded history and thousand years lifespans
  4. Same as above only with unique artifact armor on top of it
 
jjffjhjf said:
That's why we get a tricked out scope and bullets.
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I was talking about it not in isolation, but in the context of the (currently winding down) about discussion about dwarf favor and what to do about it.

Isolatedly, I am still a bit skeptical about the rifle. The way I see it, it's either rifle or staff, as we can't carry everything, and I want a staff more. A rifle can be replaced by a somewhat inferior but still adequate sniper pistol (which I do want to trick out with scope, silencer and custom ammo), the staff can't be replaced at all.
 
Elves can cast magic while in armor... as to humans, they can cast divine spells while in armor i.e. priests of sigmar, ulric, morr, etc but i havent seen a college wizard in armor casting magic
 
Kornet said:
I was talking about it not in isolation, but in the context of the (currently winding down) about discussion about dwarf favor and what to do about it.

Isolatedly, I am still a bit skeptical about the rifle. The way I see it, it's either rifle or staff, as we can't carry everything, and I want a staff more. A rifle can be replaced by a somewhat inferior but still adequate sniper pistol (which I do want to trick out with scope, silencer and custom ammo), the staff can't be replaced at all.
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Well, I'd definitely be good with using favors in zufbar for the ultimate sniper rifle made by a Master Engineer. With runic scope since telescopes and the like should be doable since those are older than guns for dwarfs, I think. Would be nice to get runic bullets, but that might be a bit much. Though getting specialty armor piercing ammo would be pretty good. I definitely disagree about carrying stuff though. Like we could get rid of the grwatsword and use a dagger instead of we need to. Staff is definitely important I agree, but a sniper rifle would just be incredibly absurdly good for us.
 
You know it's funny, we talk about how unfair it is that Mathilde can't wear armor when she is probably better geared than most of the Elector Counts and looking to become even more so.
 
We don't really need a sniper rifle. Revolver is good enough for basic ranged offense, and for something more killy we're better off with shadow knives or battlemagic.
 
ctulhuslp said:
Pick as many as you can afford from:
[10 Favours] Dwarf Lore: Impressed by KaK records, get a collection of books on dwarf history - with their millenia of records, they probably forgot a myriad of things Empire does not even suspect of ever existing.
- [5 Favours More] Get a right to reveal information from books to Colleges and to create copies. Knowledge must not die.
[5 Favours] Dwarf Politics. Spend the dwarf feeling of owing to you on getting ins with any bigwigs in their politics, to ensure every dwarf (aside from KaK folks) will always at least hear you out.
[5 Favours] Dwarf Trade. Get EIC an in with a couple of dwarf traders. Getting them into the trade with Karak Azul while it is just getting started is bound to get a tidy profit...all for the good of Empire of course.
[10 Favours] Dwarf Fighting. Get good tutors on dwarf ways of fighting - learn at least basics of using crossbow, tunnel fighting (you will have to do that at some point), demolitions and so on.
[5 Favours] Dwarf Insiders. Dwarfs think they owe you; use it to make them talk to you about things. [Gains Spy Ring/Rumour Mill]
[] Write-in?

Basically, I doubt we are going to spend all that much favours on something complex if it is, how do I put it....if it requires a de-facto freeform vote? Not sure I am getting what I mean across, sorry.
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See this sort of thing makes much more sense to me for how a spymaster would spend political favors then, "Build me a really nice weapon."

Use some dwarf favors to have a Spy Ring right off the bat rather than spend painful years trying to build one? YES, PLEASE!
 
To buy in Zhufbar:
  • Spare cylinders for our 8 shooter - quick reloads for the win
  • An assault rifle scale 8 shooter that takes the same cylinders
  • A heavy sniper rifle with an optics rail
  • Pointy bullets and a pointy bullet mould
  • Grenades
  • A bandolier for grenades
  • A reliable lighter
I see the long arms as something we take on specific missions with a use in mind. We know we want to snipe someone or we know we want to do sustained fire beyond pistol range. Very expensive for niche use weapons but we can afford it even if we eventually end up using them a lot less once we have a staff to compete for carrying capacity we don't have one now and we won't always want to do battle magic.
 
vsh said:
We don't really need a sniper rifle. Revolver is good enough for basic ranged offense, and for something more killy we're better off with shadow knives or battlemagic.
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It's for reaching out to hit somebody in the middle of a horde we'd rather not be in. Exploding somebody's head before the battle starts is great for our morale, and terrible for theirs; hero units are expensive.
 
So one thing that occurs to me, we could probably use our Favor and Gold on the troops of our future Intelligence organization. Like I'd imagine having a highly trained and well equipped goon squad would help with some missions.
 
On the bright side, Boney is working his way through the thread right now, so the vote will be closed soon and we can move forward.
Adhoc vote count started by storybookknight on Sep 30, 2019 at 11:10 AM, finished with 1532 posts and 220 votes.
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vsh said:
We don't really need a sniper rifle. Revolver is good enough for basic ranged offense, and for something more killy we're better off with shadow knives or battlemagic.
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I strongly disagree. Revisit the Karag Lune assassination - we make a very good sniper, but the revolver is kind of crap for this. So are shadow knives - they are gimped by lack of range. And we are so far from having access to battle magic, it might not exist at all for how relevant it should be to our planning.

We had a very good run with assassinations, and I expect that we will continue to perform them - but to do that, we need something which can one-shot something more durable than a goblin, and has a relatively long range. Ergo, a sniper rifle is ideal but requires some trade-offs, sniper pistol is fine and requires nothing but a bit of gold.
 
chocolote12 said:
It's for reaching out to hit somebody in the middle of a horde we'd rather not be in. Exploding somebody's head before the battle starts is great for our morale, and terrible for theirs; hero units are expensive.
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That's a nice image but we could explode a horde along with that somebody with a pit of shades. It's not I don't like the sniper rifle thing - it's just we're a jack of all trades already and I don't want to exacerbate it.
 
vsh said:
That's a nice image but we could explode a horde along with that somebody with a pit of shades. It's not I don't like the sniper rifle thing - it's just we're a jack of all trades already and I don't want to exacerbate it.
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I'm not sure we should ever rely on Pit of Shades. We'd be lucky to get conflip odds in the best of circumstances to cast it. And we know what happens when you miscast Battle Magic (Rip Sunscryer).
 
vsh said:
That's a nice image but we could explode a horde along with that somebody with a pit of shades. It's not I don't like the sniper rifle thing - it's just we're a jack of all trades already and I don't want to exacerbate it.
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A pit of shades is a last resort thing. The most dangerous of all Ulgu Battle Magic is NOT something to use casually.
 
vsh said:
That's a nice image but we could explode a horde along with that somebody with a pit of shades. It's not I don't like the sniper rifle thing - it's just we're a jack of all trades already and I don't want to exacerbate it.
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I mean
Pit of Shades is a viable assassination tool in that if the target fails Initiative it is going to die

But casting takes time and if anyone in audience has any magical senses, it's a bad tool of assassination.

I still think that a repeating crossbow with Black Lotus poison is a very good assassination tool.

Edit: and yeah, miscast are a thing. Hurling a bag of poison tipped caltrops or something would be safer.
Hm. Can we modify grenade launcher to launch poison tipped caltrops or something of the sort? To maximize AoE chaos of Black Lotus?
 
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vsh said:
That's a nice image but we could explode a horde along with that somebody with a pit of shades. It's not I don't like the sniper rifle thing - it's just we're a jack of all trades already and I don't want to exacerbate it.
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That's why I am suggesting a sniper pistol - because we have already voted for sniping before, and almost certainly will do so again - except that we do it with a very wrong tool. We made it work anyway, but we better have a suitable tool next time. Especially given that the starter level can be bought with just gold, no favor or actions involved.

And pit of shades is battlemagic. I expect it is years in-game and at least half a year in real life away.
 
I want somesort of holdout shotgun, something that does a lot of damage in one shot, keep that thing tucked under our pillow. xD
Somesort of ranged sniper weapon obviously takes priority, sleeping with a blunderbuss filled with magic shot just sounds cool to me.
 
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