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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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chocolote12 said:
But, that's the thing, we're talking about the perils of the warp here. No matter how small the chance, us possibly destroying our primary weapon every time we cast is an unacceptable risk. Like, there are acceptable risks, such as not coming back alive from going on our lonesome into an orcish stronghold, but what makes this one unacceptable is that it's costly and avoidable by virtue of just not using a consumable item as the handle for our primary weapon. It's wasteful, more like, and not particularly handy for what it's trying to do.
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I must have explained incorrectly. I'd only consider the axe a superior option if there's no risk in the haft being destroyed.

If it's going to be destroyed we'd be better off just eating the miscast and hoping it isn't too awful while swinging our weapon around rather than blowing up our weapon and then being attacked by enemies while unarmed.
 
chocolote12 said:
But, that's the thing, we're talking about the perils of the warp here. No matter how small the chance, us possibly destroying our primary weapon every time we cast is an unacceptable risk. Like, there are acceptable risks, such as not coming back alive from going on our lonesome into an orcish stronghold, but what makes this one unacceptable is that it's costly and avoidable by virtue of just not using a consumable item as the handle for our primary weapon. It's wasteful, more like, and not particularly handy for what it's trying to do.

Plus, all Rune Weapons are hand weapons, so even if we get the Maximum OverSword we can still hold a staff in the other hand when we need to. It'd take a bit of retraining to learn to wield one-handed, but I'm not against axes because I don't like training, I'm against them because I do like swords.

I'm pretty sure that Boney just meant the whip-bit, not the part where it's some sort of alchemical familiar who can cast magic and stuff. That'd be ridiculous.

And even the whip part is a bit silly, you know?
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The Segmented Whipblade is a Craftmanship issue. The Magical parts are the Runes. It is up to @BoneyM what he does with the finished product.



The S10 Rune is something most of us want, a Return to it's Wielder effect would be wonderful but I have no idea if it is possible with Runes, I know The Lady has Armour and Weapons that can be Summoned and Dismissed though. Agility Boosts and Deflection Boosts would also be great as would Armour Piercing. Semi Independant capability would be great and might be possible given the Dawi have giant Dwarf Rune Golems that are Semi Independant.
 
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TheOmnimercurial said:
The Segmented Whipblade is a Craftmanship issue. The Magical parts are the Runes. It is up to @BoneyM what he does with the finished product.



The S10 Rune is something most of us want, a Return to it's Wielder effect would be wonderful but I have no idea if it is possible with Runes, I know The Lady has Armour and Weapons that can be Summoned and Dismissed though. Agility Boosts and Deflection Boosts would also be great as would Armour Piercing. Semi Independant capability would be great and might be possible given the Dawi have giant Dwarf Rune Golems that are Semi Independant.
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It's not really how dwarven rune magic works, we're not going to get a whip sword from them. I'm pretty sure BoneyM response regarding that was purely from a magical research standpoint using the winds of magic. Which honestly can do pretty much anything but that doesn't mean that anything is worth spending the actions needed.
 
Lhune + East Gate is 16 favour and is a fairly defined section of the campaign where we were getting the foothold in the Karak proper before stretch goals, were mostly fighting goblins and where we got our sword out in open battle both times. Since Lhune makes the bulk of it the Moonlight Shenanigans name for a sword fits.

For improved disengaging, I think disposable ulgu items that we throw down behind us is the way to go. Darkness and confusion effects used like ninja smoke bombs. Also the upgrade to our robe to include the mastery and usable several times a day will make a difference - putting on the armour and tirelessness without having to cast on the run and repeat it can buy us a lot of distance. If we can stick an invisibility on the robe as well it gives us a chance to break line of sight from flying enemies who can see over the top of any darkness we throw down. Such a robe is a big project we can't spend favour on but well worth it.

Tower aspects we can spend dwarf favour on include: ultra-secure rune warded vault; library likewise; magically neutral research lab(s) and tools; sweet front door. Things we'll have to set up ourselves or can just spend money: enchanting workshop; balcony garden; living quarters; guest parlour and guest bedrooms; Kitchen; mundane storage.

Things we'll need dwarf favour to learn: Dawi politics and high level ettiquette; theory of runes (we will not learn runecraft itself); Dawi theology; engineering/demolitions. Things it might be worth spending favour to get dwarf tutors in: rifle shooting; gun care and repair; smithing; karak economics; geography; monster lore.
 
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TheOmnimercurial said:
The Segmented Whipblade is a Craftmanship issue. The Magical parts are the Runes. It is up to @BoneyM what he does with the finished product.



The S10 Rune is something most of us want, a Return to it's Wielder effect would be wonderful but I have no idea if it is possible with Runes, I know The Lady has Armour and Weapons that can be Summoned and Dismissed though. Agility Boosts and Deflection Boosts would also be great as would Armour Piercing. Semi Independant capability would be great and might be possible given the Dawi have giant Dwarf Rune Golems that are Semi Independant.
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This is something that fits more Mathilde enchanting rather than Dwarven artifice. Sengments linked and joined with Shadow, helped with Mathilde instinctual channeling of Ulgu into any weapom she holds. Dwarves would heavily disaprove, and even pushing through that disapproval, they would not really know where to start on something like that. It's manling magic idea. Not a dwarven runecraft.

In short, if we want something like that, let's start from getting better on enchanting first.
 
Does the Runelord that carves the Runes into an item also need to be the one who made the item in the first place?

If not, why make Kragg/Ironbrow forge a sword for us? Just ask our Metalmage smith friend to make the best possible sword base, then hand that over to be ruined?
 
aledeth said:
Does the Runelord that carves the Runes into an item also need to be the one who made the item in the first place?

If not, why make Kragg/Ironbrow forge a sword for us? Just ask our Metalmage smith friend to make the best possible sword base, then hand that over to be ruined?
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I'm pretty sure they do have to make the items themselves. Not in the sense of the idea that they can't add runes unless they do but more in the sense of wont.
 
I don't really oppose getting a maximum favour weapon for practical reasons.

Getting such a weapon is a Big Thing. It won't be secret because just too many dwarfs know. We can't fly under the radar anymore. If we go on as before, acting mostly as a supporting character to first Abelhelm and then Belegar, we will still be known as the wielder of the Shadowblade, or whatever.

And this is what I want to avoid. I don't want Mathilde to be an appendage to an Überweapon.

Now there is a way to avoid this. Mathilde could become a legendary Überwizard. The kind of character that Detlev Sierck writes four hour plays about. In this case I have no problem with wielding a legendary Überweapon.

However, if we want that, we will need to go another way. In Karak Eight Peak, it will alway be Belegar who is the big name and who gets most of the glory.
 
A funny thought: had we not all but revealed ourselves as a ranaldite, going for an axe might be one more reason (apart from our Wolf familiar and disdain for Sigmar) for people to assume we are an ulrican.

Gingganz said:
I don't really oppose getting a maximum favour weapon for practical reasons.

Getting such a weapon is a Big Thing. It won't be secret because just too many dwarfs know. We can't fly under the radar anymore. If we go on as before, acting mostly as a supporting character to first Abelhelm and then Belegar, we will still be known as the wielder of the Shadowblade, or whatever.

And this is what I want to avoid. I don't want Mathilde to be an appendage to an Überweapon.

Now there is a way to avoid this. Mathilde could become a legendary Überwizard. The kind of character that Detlev Sierck writes four hour plays about. In this case I have no problem with wielding a legendary Überweapon.

However, if we want that, we will need to go another way. In Karak Eight Peak, it will alway be Belegar who is the big name and who gets most of the glory.
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I disagree. Mathilde already is known as an uber wizard. Remember, from the dwarf viewpoint, the story of k8p reclamation is about Belegar, Krag and Mathilde. That is the caliber of characters we are compared to as a peer - and her legend is one of who ranges ahead of the army and makes what should be costly bloodbaths into a walk in the park by means arcane and inscrutable.
 
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DragonParadox said:
I think @veekie meant that two handed axes are the preferred weapons of slayers and that is pretty much the extreme of the suicidal mindset that is afflicting Karak Ankor.
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Yes. From what BoneyM described of greataxe combat its all about fencing with the axe, finding the right moment to commit your all to kill the enemy, for when you commit to a full swing its unstoppable, but leaves you open and vulnerable, while when you're fighting defensively you find it very hard to harm the enemy.

By contrast the Greatsword is a versatile weapon. You halfsword it for precision when close in, you use the wide sweeping swings to threaten and make space(or wound a dozen goblins/skaven in a sweep), you use mordhau pommel strikes to stun and concuss when they're too armored , and you use the deep committed thrust when you need to hammer through your foe and leave them dead at the expense of leaving yourself open.
Its all about managing where your cutting edge is at all times, balancing power with threat.

They're similar weapons in that a greatweapon must be planned. Swinging frantically is for smaller weapons.
 
Gingganz said:
Getting such a weapon is a Big Thing. It won't be secret because just too many dwarfs know. We can't fly under the radar anymore. If we go on as before, acting mostly as a supporting character to first Abelhelm and then Belegar, we will still be known as the wielder of the Shadowblade, or whatever.

And this is what I want to avoid. I don't want Mathilde to be an appendage to an Überweapon.
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As far as the dwarves are concerned, we're up there with Belegar and Kragg for our contributions to the expedition. One of the most famous humans in the Karaz Ankor, that's us. We don't have to worry about being overshadowed by a famous weapon, because we're already famous.

In any case, it's not like rune weapons, no matter how fine, can truly become famous before someone uses them out in the field and shows how they do by stabbing a big gribbly with them. A weapon's name spreads with the tales of battle.
 
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Personally, I think debating the specifics of what the weapon might be like is a bit premature until we get some clarification on various points from the QM (for example, how much better would and axe be versus a sword, would grounding using it destroy the haft, etc). For what it's worth, I'd like to spend a minimum of 20 favors on whatever weapon we decide on, but we just don't know what form it will take yet.
 
Gotrek Gurnisson wields a greataxe and he's the best known Slayer. Also, 25 Skaven Favors? Where does one get Skaven Favors to order a Fellblade?
 
I want to build a temple/tavern for Ranald but we shouldn't go out of the way to build a shrine in the Karag Nar temple. Instead it would be better to use the time and money that would otherwise be spent on the greenskin temple to be used for useful purposes since that would be the best way to show our devotion to Ranald. Building shrines to glorify past deeds is for Sigmarites, let's be a more practical devotee to a more practical god. Sure we could both make a temple and build a shrine but would Ranald would really approve of the waste?

Reasons to build elsewhere.

Tavern: If we're going to build a place for Ranald it should in a population center which the greenskin temple very much isn't. In addition this way can make our temple serve a useful purpose by serving fine dwarf approved drinks as well as being a gambling den and serving all sorts of useful purposes such as being a node for a spy network.

Shallya: The other thing I really want to do is make sure a temple to Shallya is built right next to our Ranald temple. All the people who get injured in bar fights, drunken foolery and gambling disputes can go right next door to Shallya's temple for treatment. Mostly though the shipper in me demands we ensure the temples are right next to each other. Ranald x Shallya.

Reasons to not build at the Greenskin Temple.

Scene of the crime: The greenskin temple isn't just a place where Ranald performed a divine deed. It's also a place where he committed a theft, and what kind of thief returns to the scene of the crime? From a certain perspective not returning here can be considered a mark of divine respect just as great as building a shrine here.

Unappealing: Building a shrine at the former greenskin temple is unappealing, and not just because it used to be a gross orc shrine or because of it's inconvenient location. The real reason it's unappealing is that spending time and money to build up a shrine just to glorify Ranald's theft feels a little gross. Spending time and money that could be used to create something useful like a tavern or to scout out the enemies at our doorstep and instead using it to make a shrine glorifying a god's deeds feels like a thing Sigmar's priests would do. Mathilde dislikes the Sigmarites largely because instead of doing practical useful things they seem to spend their time seeking political power and glorifying their god, besides Ranald is a god who seems like he'd prefer a good drink and a fun time gambling rather than a memorial to his theft.
 
Aegon Targaryen said:
Gotrek Gurnisson wields a greataxe and he's the best known Slayer. Also, 25 Skaven Favors? Where does one get Skaven Favors to order a Fellblade?
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The problem with interacting with the Skaven economy is that they use warpstone tokens. Favours require trust and gratitude or at least obligation. We can't handle warpstone tokens for reasons of law, sanity and them burning up in our hands.

Not that we want Skaven superweapons - because warpstone - but if we can solve the scent problem and infiltrate them it would have been useful to be able to buy information and hire them to murder each other.
 
WorldSlayer said:
I want to build a temple/tavern for Ranald but we shouldn't go out of the way to build a shrine in the Karag Nar temple. Instead it would be better to use the time and money that would otherwise be spent on the greenskin temple to be used for useful purposes since that would be the best way to show our devotion to Ranald.
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Why do you think the Shrine will cost loads of money like a Sigmarite church, rather than what we built in our past home?
Why do you think that its purpose will be for worship (with congregation) and worship only, rather than secrets and research... like our last shrine and home?
Why do you think Ranald is humble and wants no acknowledgement, when last time he beat another god he melted its holy symbol into a representation of 'eat shit, I kicked your ass', and then had us reforge it into a form that honoured that fight?
 
WorldSlayer said:
Sure we could both make a temple and build a shrine but would Ranald would really approve of the waste?
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Scratch some crosses in the walls, and whittle a few statuettes to commemorate the event, and we're done. Unlike Sigmarites, making a church doesn't mean coating it in solid gold.

Frankly, Ranald likes being praised. He's happy to take the credit for stuff. People take down his shrines because the authorities, who he tries to protect them from, come down like bricks on them, not because he categorically enjoys back-alley offerings in places of squalor. He likes being surreptitious, yes, which actually makes an out-of-the-way shrine even better, but that's different from being quashed altogether. You'll note that making shrines for him is a thing he rewards; even with the coin's blessing that won't wear off after a year, it's still been firmly established that he'll be very put out with us if we neglect to create a place for him when we've got a chance.

And the place where Ranald swindled an entire god is a prime site for any sort of worship; I'd say something like that it's one of the most powerful miracles he's performed, except I don't think he's ever topped this.
Aegon Targaryen said:
@BoneyM, if it was even possible, working with the Skaven would burn through the Dwarf Rep faster than being a Vampire, no?
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That'd be a grudging we couldn't just apologize for.
 
Catching up on the forever moving thread, but I only see Belebro as a bromance interest at most.

It's like, when Belegar is spitting his hot lines on everyone and everything and just dabbing on the world, Mathilde is the crowd behind that goes "wooooah!".
 
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