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Thread challenge:

You are Eike. Your Master just gave you a wagon full of charcoal just outside of Middenheim and told you to try to get it to Tor Lithanel. You have [money: yes] but are challenged to spend as little as possible on transport costs. What cunning plans might you have?

No vote on the best plan or anything like that, just brainstorm and refine ideas and any that look good to me in the morning will be transferred into Eike's head.

For a longer term solution, flat-bottomed boats have historically been both good at crossing swamps, and usable for cargo if you are careful to not overload them
.

If Elves are concerned about damage from poling boats long term, then perhaps they could use paddles or a minor (not high magic) enchantment to make them move.

Maybe hire a cart once the swamp is passed, or hire porters for the stretch past the falls? (Possibly not going to work, can Torior go outside the city temporarily? And Fanior would take some tracking down to even make an offer.)
 
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Ok, I'm a little confused why we can't hire forest born to pick up the charcoal/peat/whatever at the border.

Like, we need to get the goods to the forest by human hands, but after that it would be easier to just hand off to the elves for the rest of tue journey.
 
Ok, I'm a little confused why we can't hire forest born to pick up the charcoal/peat/whatever at the border.
Hiring Elves as packmules in that number necessary is sure to be expensive.
Even without considering roads, it should be easier to travel through the depleted forests nearer the evacuated human settlements, at least for a few years more.
Wagons are notorious for breaking down even on decent roads. Without ones? Forget it.
 
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Worth(y) of a Runesmith
Omake - Worth(y) of a Runesmith


Thorek Ironbrow has a swarm of apprentices.

There are many reasons for this, political and personal, but there is one that very few see.

It is kindness.

Thorek is perhaps the finest living runelord. All the Karaz Ankor are in no doubt that there are but two contenders to the title. Kragg the Grimm , and Thorek Ironbrow.

Kragg the Grimm shall never have an apprentice. He shall take none who are not worthy of his knowledge, all his knowledge, and with every year that knowledge increases. As do Kragg's standards. They have long since passed the point he will ever find a worthy apprentice.

Of course Thorek will never take an unworthy apprentice either. They just judge worth differently. But the world is not so kind as to judge soley by Thorek's standards. The world would expect an apprentice of Thorek's to be his equal in skill, or to at least demonstrate that potential.

Foolish of course, Thungi's apprentices had never been Thungi's equals, yet had been worthy all the same. Not that anyone alive could even compare to Thungi's apprentices, but the principle remained. It was gratifying, to be celebrated if the student could surpass the master. But it was not required. But the world did not judge by these standards, and the great flwa of many Dawi is that they judged themselves most harshy of all, for better or worse.

It would take someone truly exceptional to live up to the legacy of Thorek Ironbrow in the eyes of others, and perhaps more exceptional still to live up to his legacy in their own eyes. A heavy burden, almost unbearable for an apprentice, a heavy burden for the teacher.

Yet a problem shared may be a problem more than halved. Thorek will not change his standards of worth, but the world can be persuaded to see things differently. A single apprentice, perhaps even two or three, must face and carry the full weight of their teachers reputation alone. But six, eight, a dozen? Then no longer need any one apprentice be the Paragon. Each apprentice can merely be excellent (for no Runesmith has ever graduated from Apprentice without excellence) and that is enough not to bring shame to their Ancestors or their master.

Perhaps one day that Paragon come to Thorek regardless, emerging from the energetic swarm. But until that day Thorek's apprentices shall benefit from the kindness that ensures the eyes of the world, and of themselves, judge by Thorek's standard of worth.

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AN: In my last omake I wrote this line "... it is a terrible thing too to be apprenticed to one of the greats. Could any apprentice of Kragg the Grimm live up to his legacy unless they were Thungi reborn? Could any apprentice of a Lady Magister hope to settle for merely being acceptable?"

Then I thought about it, and Kragg's standards versus Thorek's stream of apprentices. And this came. Thorek wants to restore the rune knowledge of the Karaz Ankor, a swarm of apprentices helps ensure that less is lost and improves his political power. But why do something for two good reasons, when you can do it for three?

Hopefully I'm not totally misreading Thorek's character.
 
The Schadensumpf was always described as an obstacle so I didn't even consider going through it. If it's viable that would clearly be better than my proposed sea route, which is longer by a factor of ten or so.

Going back to the gyro idea, there might be a solution to the fuel problem -inexhasituble flame. Maybe that's not possible (did Adela ever check if that's safe?) but I think it'll still be a cool idea for Eike to propose.
 
Going back to the gyro idea, there might be a solution to the fuel problem -inexhasituble flame. Maybe that's not possible (did Adela ever check if that's safe?) but I think it'll still be a cool idea for Eike to propose.
Kohler did something similar on the Dum expedition, so in principle it should be possible. But you'd be asking dwarves to modify their complicated and expensive machinery with magic.
"Did you get a chance to offer your services to the Engineers?" you ask, pausing on your way out the door as you recall mentioning that possibility to her at your first meeting.

"With Inextinguishable Flame, yes, for a while. Head Engineer Gurnisson was studying its effects on the Urmskaladrak. But after it was lost, the other Engineers don't want to take a chance with it."
 
The Druchii were pretty upfront with what they want.

Dreadlord Ylrishen:


Military support towards screwing over her rivals back home.

Captain Maktig:


Adventure, and interesting and competent crewmates.

Sorceress Myrielh:


Knowledge and curiosities.

We probably shouldn't make deals with Maktig, because, you know, pirate, but Myrielh and Ylrishen seem possible on a quid pro quo basis. I'm not suggesting anything long term, but I don't see why we shouldn't try to exploit the situation and enrich ourselves—especially if we use the Deceiver to make our bargaining position seem stronger than it is.

I reckon we could sell our orc and skaven research to Myrielh for Druchii magic books. It's military information that doesn't hurt the Empire, and would make the Druchii bolder in going to war with two of the most dangerous races on the planet. The Enemy of my Enemy is my Enemy's Enemy, no more or less, but sometimes I can sit back and watch them fight.
This seems inverted to me? It focuses on how much we personally like that individual's goals over the risks and consequences of what they actually asked:
-Dreadlord Ylrishen: Druchii helps Empire fuck over other Druchii. If they lie, its no worse than status quo(where Druchii hit whenever and wherever they like and the Empire has no choice but to take their chances). If found out, helping Druchii kill other Druchii is the sole deal where people might tolerate, even if they dislike it.

-Captain Maktig: Adventuring with Druchii. If its a trap we'd be alone without support and they nail a Wizard Lord. If found out theres no getting around being close personal associates with persona non grata, so burning bridges may happen.

-Sorceress Myrielh: Trading knowledge with a sorceress, in the firm belief that you will get the better of them, turning the suspect knowledge to our purposes, and that the knowledge they gain cannot be turned to other purposes. Well, hubris speaks for itself. If found out...well, depends on what witnesses we have to back up that we gave nothing they shouldn't have.
 
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A decent enough way to bypass Nordland's objections is karak dwarves. Get them to transport the charcoal. We know that Nordland isn't messing around with the karak dwarves' marble trade, so safe bet they'd leave their charcoal trade alone too. We just need to get the charcoal wagon to Tor Lithanel, no requirement on it being us who gets it there.
 
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Eike could borrow the gryobomber to do the transport of the charcoal. Even if you throw in the costs involved (fuel, pilot, maintenance) it sets a price to consider other options against. For a one off though Eike can probably get it done for free.
 
Lol.

I'm sorry people, did you not expect this issue when you voted to have the EIC set up a bulk goods route into Laurelorn this turn?

It does amuse me that the two most practical options seem to be "get someone else to figure it out" and "make a wildly impractical one-off magic thing". Seriously, how was charcoal trade supposed to work before rite of way?


In the interests of not being entirely negative, my suggestion is a mule train. There's probably a bunch left over from the mines shutting down, along with packers and drivers, and mules will make it through forested terrain in a way that carts won't.

The big issues then become going through Nordland unnoticed (because going through the swamp with bulk cargo isn't going to work) and getting elf permission to bring through a small caravan of humans.
 
It does amuse me that the two most practical options seem to be "get someone else to figure it out" and "make a wildly impractical one-off magic thing". Seriously, how was charcoal trade supposed to work before rite of way?
I'd like to think the very precedented method of delivering it by barge over the wetlands and down a river directly from Middenland to Laurelorn is fairly practical.
 
I think a common approximation for transportation (including infrastructure construction&maintentance) costs in economies of scale is:
if it costs 1$ by ship
then 10$ by train
then 100$ by road
(extrapolating 1000$ by foot)
(extrapolating 10000$ by foot through jungle)

If we're talking mass transport I suspect the cheapest path will actually be by ship through Marienburg.
 
I'd like to think the very precedented method of delivering it by barge over the wetlands and down a river directly from Middenland to Laurelorn is fairly practical.

If you have canals cut into the swamp, yeah. But you don't. And I'm pretty sure that the elves would object.

So we'd be relying both on there actually being a path that a barge can pass through, and on being able to find it. I doubt both of those, given the way Mathilde described the road seems to imply a depth of water from tens of feet to a few inches, changing rapidly without a lot of indication on the surface.
 
Yeah i made up a very complicated riverine-sea trade route and then Andres literally comes with KISS solution, its great.
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If you have canals cut into the swamp, yeah. But you don't. And I'm pretty sure that the elves would object.
Andres has literally provided examples of this working. In setting. I am not sure where the issue is quite frankly, because now that it was pointed out to me, i do not see a problem with it.

Flatter boats in a chain to distribute the weight even more for even shallower profile may well be able to be navigated by forestborn guide through most of the swamp.
 
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Like, you may be thinking "If transporting people across swamp is that easy why haven´t men done it before when they tried to kick in Laurelorns shit", the answer is that these ships are desirable, so they won´t suffer sudden ambushes, or the water suddenly flipping the boat and making everyone on board die.

The ships are extremely vulnerable to assault this way, but there won´t be any.
 
Lol.

I'm sorry people, did you not expect this issue when you voted to have the EIC set up a bulk goods route into Laurelorn this turn?

It does amuse me that the two most practical options seem to be "get someone else to figure it out" and "make a wildly impractical one-off magic thing". Seriously, how was charcoal trade supposed to work before rite of way?


In the interests of not being entirely negative, my suggestion is a mule train. There's probably a bunch left over from the mines shutting down, along with packers and drivers, and mules will make it through forested terrain in a way that carts won't.

The big issues then become going through Nordland unnoticed (because going through the swamp with bulk cargo isn't going to work) and getting elf permission to bring through a small caravan of humans.

There isn't an issue, we already have multiple ideas from both Mathilde and Thorek for delivering the charcoal, we don't even need to make a profit.
We were asked to come up with ideas for what Eike thinks when she comes along on the action
 
Like, you may be thinking "If transporting people across swamp is that easy why haven´t men done it before when they tried to kick in Laurelorns shit", the answer is that these ships are desirable, so they won´t suffer sudden ambushes, or the water suddenly flipping the boat and making everyone on board die.

The ships are extremely vulnerable to assault this way, but there won´t be any.
Attack by the Eonir is a big problem but not the only one. It's very expensive to build a fleet of barges big enough to transport an army, there's no place to build such a large fleet near the Schadensumpf, there aren't enough huffers to pilot the fleet all in one go, and it's Middenland who borders the Schadensumpf, not Nordland.
 
Flatter boats in a chain to distribute the weight even more for even shallower profile may well be able to be navigated by forestborn guide through most of the swamp.

It's a swamp, not a lake. There is a 100% chance that you will be blocked by at least vegetation well above the water line, if not actual ground.

But good luck trying it. That sounds like one of the most miserable things I can imagine actually trying to do.

You don't need to cut canals into a swamp, it's a swamp. You don't need to cut canals into a river either. Charting a route to Tor Lithanel would be done by local huffers, same as any other wetland huffers in the Empire do for trade boats.

I strongly disagree. On the basis of having had to try and navigate a canoe through a swamp. You absolutely do need both a path that is clear enough and knowledge in advance of where it is, unless you want to be picking your boat up every 20 feet to get it over a hummock.
 
Lol.

I'm sorry people, did you not expect this issue when you voted to have the EIC set up a bulk goods route into Laurelorn this turn?

It does amuse me that the two most practical options seem to be "get someone else to figure it out" and "make a wildly impractical one-off magic thing". Seriously, how was charcoal trade supposed to work before rite of way?


In the interests of not being entirely negative, my suggestion is a mule train. There's probably a bunch left over from the mines shutting down, along with packers and drivers, and mules will make it through forested terrain in a way that carts won't.

The big issues then become going through Nordland unnoticed (because going through the swamp with bulk cargo isn't going to work) and getting elf permission to bring through a small caravan of humans.
I'm pretty sure the plan assumed and cleared with Boney that the connection will use RoW if it's formalized on the same turn. So using RoW was the plan from the start.
 
I strongly disagree. On the basis of having had to try and navigate a canoe through a swamp. You absolutely do need both a path that is clear enough and knowledge in advance of where it is, unless you want to be picking your boat up every 20 feet to get it over a hummock.
Thats what the people who literally spend their time defending it for centuries are for. This is why i mentioned them :V
 
I strongly disagree. On the basis of having had to try and navigate a canoe through a swamp. You absolutely do need both a path that is clear enough and knowledge in advance of where it is, unless you want to be picking your boat up every 20 feet to get it over a hummock.
Yes, that's what the huffers are for. That's what huffers do.
 
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