- Location
- Leeds
Its explicitly called embezzlement, by Boney, in the update. We're using company resources to pay off personal debt.
This is not Mathildes right.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
This is not Mathildes right.
I do not think I am going to lose sleep over fiduciary duty to... colossally wealthy people who will not notice the difference anyway. As far as I am concerned embezzlement is a victimless crime as long as you do it to people too wealthy to be materially impacted by it which all EIC investors are for this scale of action.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Pay her the money. It's simple, straightforward, and it's only money. We make that stuff back in bushels anyway.
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
Books and laboratory for the WP.
Yes. I don't have MORAL problems with that choice. I have practical problems with that choice because we are interacting with DWARVES, to whom the idea of a victimless crime is a oxymoron.
Those are both wants. We don't NEED ether of those badly enough that we can't delay and wait for our income to be able to afford them.
We bought the laboratory already. Cost us 2000gc.
But the embezzlement is against the EIC. Gotrek's widow isn't going to care about that. The EIC shareholders and employees might though.
It definitely sits in a grey area but as far as Gotrek's widow is concerned the fact that this could be considered embezzlement (or it could be considered incentivized advertising or something) isn't going to be a concern.
I think you are severely overestimating how how much dwarfs care that we embezzled humans, they do not have a moral imperative to be squares, they are just obsessive about what is owed them and what they owe others. Credit covers the only dwarf involved perfectly and she has no reason to give a damn about said fiduciary duty in an umgi company.
- Location
- Brazil
Consider the folowing, if we pay in gold we only have 200 left and gain 200 passively a turn, this very turn people are planning on paying in gold and buying 450 gold worth of books, wich already leaves debt for next turn.
Due to Vow of poverty and thread culture the only way we have to make large sums of cash is adventuring, and due to all costs normal and extraordinary we tend to have we will need large sums of cash.
So credit is the only option where we pay whitould having to make the diference with adventures, the only diference is the flavor of adventure.
Something to keep in mind is the only way this goes wrong is if something interested in looking at things at the wort light possible had all the details, since we are the only person who has all the details the only way this goes wrong is if we decide it should.
And if Tzeentch just grabs it from our head we have bigger problems.
It's only embezzlement on the absolute most pessimistic reading of the action, and given that it's a likely very profitable long term investment for the EIC in the longer term, in the form of reputation, future business and good will, can hardly even be called a misappropriation of funds or acting against the best interests of the company.
If suggesting a course of action results in long term profits and sustainable business, while also fulfilling other organisational objectives, furthering its reputation and also advancing the interests of its largest shareholder, well, that's just good business.
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K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
My point was that we absolutely need money to do things and that it isn't just a want, which is what the post I was answering to said. I wasn't talking about what we need or want rn.
And I know we already bought the lab, I was using it as a proof that we definitely need money in general and can't rely entirely on CF and DF to do things.
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- Location
- Leeds
Any Dwarves who we might want to enter into a deal with in the future however would, because we're establishing that we do embezzle from companies we own and they're going to wonder if we'll rob them as well.
Thats key, nobody is arguing that going EIC might end up with Gotreks widow being unpaid or the debt not being satisfied. People are talking about wider reputational damage among dwarves as being seen as an embezzler.
- Location
- Earth
Uh, voting hasn't opened yet.
- Location
- Leeds
It is the literal definition of embezzlement.
Article: Embezzlement refers to a form of white-collar crime in which a person or entity intentionally misappropriates the assets entrusted to them
As a board member of the EIC we are trusted with EIC assets and we are intentionally misappropriating them for our own benefit.
Now if you think that we can argue successfully infront of Wilhelmina that this is beneficial over the long term. Why only do it for the widow? Why not give every dwarf in Karag Nar a 10 gold credit?
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How do those dwarfs find out what we did? No dwarf would have the interest to dig for info on this.
Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
@Boney Question, Can't we offer 2000 golds worth EIC shares. We own a large percentige we can hand over some shares and not lose our dominance of the company and IF we can get an agreement that she doesn't sell the shares to anybody we don't approve of there is not risk either. (ie, first refusal)
How many shares of EIC, 2000 gold buys anyway? More than 1-2%? less than 1?
How many shares of EIC, 2000 gold buys anyway? More than 1-2%? less than 1?
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Cash is the uncomplicated option. We pick it, we don't need to worry about it anymore. Right now, the only thing we've desired to buy out-of-pocket is the Druchii books and even that's only because Dwarfs don't have anything on them and thus it wouldn't be efficient to get them via Barak Varr.
But if we look at the character sheet...
Subtract 2000 from that and you get 893. Even if we spent 450 gold immediately, we'd still have enough to put us in the green before next turn's income. And people are arguing more in the general vicinity of 350 gold for out-of-pocket books, anyway.
Hell, even if we went nuts and decided to also get Bretonnian books on Cooking and Fungi up to extensive, that'd only be 550, and we still wouldn't be in debt.
Nnnot quite. Not exactly. The updates notes that Mathilde's liquid funds are 2200, yes...
But if we look at the character sheet...
1080 x 0.95 = 1026. 1026+1867= 2893. We've the equivalent of 2893 in funds total, it's just that not all of that is immediately accessible.
Subtract 2000 from that and you get 893. Even if we spent 450 gold immediately, we'd still have enough to put us in the green before next turn's income. And people are arguing more in the general vicinity of 350 gold for out-of-pocket books, anyway.
Hell, even if we went nuts and decided to also get Bretonnian books on Cooking and Fungi up to extensive, that'd only be 550, and we still wouldn't be in debt.
- Location
- Leeds
I don't care. Depends a lot on what actions we do in the future. If we want to start some deal with some dwarf guild, then this might come up as part of their Due Dilligence, if we don't do anything to prompt that interest then they'd probably never find out.
I never vote in this thread because I can't keep up. I just wanted to clarify because the pros and cons of each option where being misunderstood.
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- Location
- Brazil
Okay let me try this again .
There are two ways this goes wrong and we have repercusion.
Mathield tell all the details to someone motivated to look at things in the worst light or Tzeentch grabs the information from her brain in wich case we have bigger problems.
The people who would have a problem if they knew all this won't.
If the dwarves somehow invent a mechanism to read Mathilde's mind, I think we're probably more concerned about the vast quantities of necromantic knowledge tucked away in there.
On the harshest of readings, sure - but when the action is not actually to the detriment of the company, and even advances its interests, in profit and long term sustainable business, it can equally be called an investment.
There is no court on the planet that would uphold charges of embezzlement for actions that resulted in no damages to the company, and long term reputational and monetary gain.
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@Boney
I would like to also point out that asking Belegar to loan us the money was suggested. I think that would mechanically be paying the debt with DF, of which we have. I am sure the Metalsmith's guild we saved would pay that amount and consider it a CHEAP settlement for the debt of pulling them out of that ship.
I would like to also point out that asking Belegar to loan us the money was suggested. I think that would mechanically be paying the debt with DF, of which we have. I am sure the Metalsmith's guild we saved would pay that amount and consider it a CHEAP settlement for the debt of pulling them out of that ship.
- Location
- Earth
Those are imperial GC, need to divide by 1.3, iirc to get dwarven GC.
Typical Celestial. The most annoying thing about them isn't that they speak in nothing but riddles, but that these riddles should always be paid attention.
Well, it is not as if they can just tell it to you straight forward as otherwise they lock the possibility which they see to be reality. Like that is a major risk of occurring if they do so. As noted below.
It was a possibility that it would occur but it was not guaranteed to occur due to the manner through which they delivered the information.
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
I don't think the EIC is a publicly traded company with a market value for its shares - pretty sure it's only got a handful of investors, all of whom bought at negotiated prices quite a while ago which are doubtless inaccurate now.