- Location
- Seattle
Paying her in our EIC inventory is basically giving her company store credit. Which historically works out very good for the company.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[ ] [DEBT] Pay in coin
So upon reconsideration, we do already have way too many adventure hooks and time really is our most valuable currency. And despite Mathilde arguing that she could only gain that amount of money from five years (ten turns!) of frugality, most of our big monetary gains have been individual windfalls from adventures, not merely waiting for the EIC paychecks to come in. We can find a way to get more money one way or the other. Just this turn we had the possibility of keeping money from Drakenhof and we passed it over. I'm sure other possibilities will present themselves.
[ ] [LIBRARY] Barak Varr booksellers: Metallurgy, Fungi, Cooking
[ ] [LIBRARY] Colleges of Magic: Rituals, Rune Magic, Liminal Realms, Forest Spirits
Undecided between these two. If we pick the former we can delay tributaries and runes, and if we pick the latter we have the option of delaying the capstones and the mushrooms book (we've enough papers in the line to delay it one turn). Either works!
[ ] [PURCHASE] The Druchii of Naggaroth: Imperial Extensive & Esoteric, Bretonnian Extensive (350gc)
[ ] [PURCHASE] The Druchii of Naggaroth: Imperial Extensive (100gc)
For out of pocket purchases, though, if we're going with Druchii books, and don't have any plans to really interact with them (instead staying true to our preexisting ideas and things occupying us), we could just... buy less than the totality of books about them, since we wouldn't need to get them right away. We really don't.
[ ] [DWARF] No purchase.
[ ] [COLLEGE] No purchase.
We don't need anything on this front.
So upon reconsideration, we do already have way too many adventure hooks and time really is our most valuable currency. And despite Mathilde arguing that she could only gain that amount of money from five years (ten turns!) of frugality, most of our big monetary gains have been individual windfalls from adventures, not merely waiting for the EIC paychecks to come in. We can find a way to get more money one way or the other. Just this turn we had the possibility of keeping money from Drakenhof and we passed it over. I'm sure other possibilities will present themselves.
[ ] [LIBRARY] Barak Varr booksellers: Metallurgy, Fungi, Cooking
[ ] [LIBRARY] Colleges of Magic: Rituals, Rune Magic, Liminal Realms, Forest Spirits
Undecided between these two. If we pick the former we can delay tributaries and runes, and if we pick the latter we have the option of delaying the capstones and the mushrooms book (we've enough papers in the line to delay it one turn). Either works!
[ ] [PURCHASE] The Druchii of Naggaroth: Imperial Extensive & Esoteric, Bretonnian Extensive (350gc)
[ ] [PURCHASE] The Druchii of Naggaroth: Imperial Extensive (100gc)
For out of pocket purchases, though, if we're going with Druchii books, and don't have any plans to really interact with them (instead staying true to our preexisting ideas and things occupying us), we could just... buy less than the totality of books about them, since we wouldn't need to get them right away. We really don't.
[ ] [DWARF] No purchase.
[ ] [COLLEGE] No purchase.
We don't need anything on this front.
[ ] [DEBT] Pay in coin
Paying in coin is the most straightforward payment option. We received gems and are giving gold equal to that value for the debt. That's fine but I don't think the other payment options are bad either though. The absolute most straightforward would be to actually grab the original gems and return them but that's not going to happen so the best we can do is approximate the value.
[ ] [DEBT] Pay in credit
Paying in credit can be considered going a step further. We received gems and now giving credit equal to that value for the debt. It's a bit of a shady move, but Mathilde's a Grey and Borek seemed to have actually forgotten the debt anyway and picked a recipient on basically a whim. This is actually a pretty good option for everyone involved since it means Gotrek's widow gets the same value but Mathilde's expenses go down and EIC gets some work.
[ ] [DEBT] Owe a boon
Paying in a boon is I think a step beyond even paying in credit. We received gems and now giving wizard services equal to that value for the debt. Admittedly getting the services of a Grey Wizard Lord is quite a thing, but not necessarily all that useful for the average person.
[ ] [DEBT] Don't pay
If weren't going to pay we probably shouldn't have brought up the debt. I doubt many of us are quite so shameless as to just not pay.
Personally I think coin or credit are preferable. A boon is going a bit too far in currency exchange, especially since a widow living in Karak Eight Peaks is far more likely find uses for cash or credit rather than a Grey Wizard.
Paying in coin is the most straightforward payment option. We received gems and are giving gold equal to that value for the debt. That's fine but I don't think the other payment options are bad either though. The absolute most straightforward would be to actually grab the original gems and return them but that's not going to happen so the best we can do is approximate the value.
[ ] [DEBT] Pay in credit
Paying in credit can be considered going a step further. We received gems and now giving credit equal to that value for the debt. It's a bit of a shady move, but Mathilde's a Grey and Borek seemed to have actually forgotten the debt anyway and picked a recipient on basically a whim. This is actually a pretty good option for everyone involved since it means Gotrek's widow gets the same value but Mathilde's expenses go down and EIC gets some work.
[ ] [DEBT] Owe a boon
Paying in a boon is I think a step beyond even paying in credit. We received gems and now giving wizard services equal to that value for the debt. Admittedly getting the services of a Grey Wizard Lord is quite a thing, but not necessarily all that useful for the average person.
[ ] [DEBT] Don't pay
If weren't going to pay we probably shouldn't have brought up the debt. I doubt many of us are quite so shameless as to just not pay.
Personally I think coin or credit are preferable. A boon is going a bit too far in currency exchange, especially since a widow living in Karak Eight Peaks is far more likely find uses for cash or credit rather than a Grey Wizard.
- Location
- Leeds
So we notify her of a debt, and also that we'll be repaying it over 20 years rather than just give her what she's owed? Or that we'll be paying her forever?
Mathilde probably live longer than 20 years, so this is more expensive. And also comes with the risk of getting drawn into dwarf courts if she wants the rest of the money now rather than as a pension.
Arn't we supposed to have a vow of poverty anyway? Fuck it, I am going to vote cash. Money is a lure we are specifically supposed to avoid. We are buried DEEP in the favor economy of both the Colleges and Dwarven society. We don't need money. Money is absolutely a want.
- Location
- Brazil
What's wrong with EIC credit?
It's a massive trading company, we own most of it, she benefits greatly as well. Win-win.
It's a massive trading company, we own most of it, she benefits greatly as well. Win-win.
- Location
- Earth
It's not the example I'd want to give Eike on how to deal with debt.
Also not inventing company scrip.
- Location
- wild blue yonder
I have an alternative option that's as simple:
Ask Belegar to spot her the gold.
God knows he has it, and god knows he knows we're good for it and he'll trust us to be good for it - he's especially likely to be amenable to it considering it's gold that's going to a widow in his own Karak Eight Peaks, which will presumably just be spent out into his own economy. He might even enjoy the novelty of us owing him a favor.
Ask Belegar to spot her the gold.
God knows he has it, and god knows he knows we're good for it and he'll trust us to be good for it - he's especially likely to be amenable to it considering it's gold that's going to a widow in his own Karak Eight Peaks, which will presumably just be spent out into his own economy. He might even enjoy the novelty of us owing him a favor.
Because it is technically theft through embezzlement and if it EVER gets discovered it will blow a HUGE hole in our reputation with the dwarves and maybe even get a grudge called on us by Gotrek's widow. We will have repaid our debt to her by putting her in an even bigger debt to the EIC through unwitting (not that dwarven law will care) participation in a theft.
The option to pay in dwarf favors sounds like a really good option. I am pretty sure we have a good sized bank of those. Belegar would likely be happy to be repaid in our will if push came to shove. He knows he's gonna outlive us.
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Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Hey guys. Gotrek's wife here. I'm in desperate need of money as a single mother toughing it out in Karak Eight Peaks. If you want to help, all you need is your credit card. Give me your credit card number, the three digits on the back, and the expiration month and year. Please be quick, I'm starving.
I spent way too long on this stupid bit 
I do think people are misunderstanding the credit option - it's not paying Borek's widow with company scrip in the slightest, it's abrogating existing costs or funds for services that would be used anyway, or providing favourable deals and terms, ending up looking like a gesture of good will and relations-building with Imperial Dwarves.
As a majority shareholder and owner of the EIC, this is well within Mathilde's right, and doesn't put Gotrek's widow in debt to the EIC at all. It's slightly more complicated than just handing over a bag of shinies, but probably more beneficial to everyone in the long run.
SV and financial literacy do not seem to go hand-in-hand.
As a majority shareholder and owner of the EIC, this is well within Mathilde's right, and doesn't put Gotrek's widow in debt to the EIC at all. It's slightly more complicated than just handing over a bag of shinies, but probably more beneficial to everyone in the long run.
SV and financial literacy do not seem to go hand-in-hand.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
Buy less candles.
If Mathilda considers it embezzlement then I have absolutely no doubt that the dwarves, who are considerably more strict about such things, will as well. If this was above board she wouldn't be needing to hide it in expense accounts.
Rule number 1 with dwarves - deal with them entirely above board.
Burned_Cookie
Very tired girl.
- Location
- Plato´s cave.
- Pronouns
- She/Her/It/Its
You monster, you would deprive her of this most basic of necessities?!
Hey now that is a essential part of life. Just buy less avocado toast.
- Location
- Brazil
Hey @Boney is this actualy possible ? I fell Mathilde would know IC if such catastrophic failure state was something she needed to worry about.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
Rule 1, Rule 2 and Rule 4.
And if it were anywhere else then SV that you posted this.... this; Rule 0.
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I'm 32. The only thing that I'm good for is destroying industries by refusing to have enough money to buy things, apparently by spending it all on avacado and bread.
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Fundamentally, as a significant shareholder and owner of the EIC, Mathilde has substantial say in how the company is run.
Saying 'I want us to make inroads with Imperial Dwarves in K8P, and also assist the widow of a former coworker who I respected greatly' is well within her right. She does not have to paperclip-maximise short term profits. It is not theft, nor is it even embezzlement except in the most pessimistic reading of things, especially when it's likely beneficial to the company in the long run anyway!
You can do a good thing for someone and make an investment at the same time! They're not mutually exclusive!
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In purely economic terms, there is no difference to Mathilde. The cost of the debt will disappear into the operating expenses of the EIC at a very favorable rate, to no impact to Mathilde's personal bottom line because the EIC isn't directly translating profits to dividends. It is an economic spell that makes the debt disappear while Gotrek's widow still receives benefits that are akin to those of the debt being paid in gold.
It is possible that someone who somehow knew all the details could interpret the matter that way, but the only person who would know all the details is Mathilde, and whether she interprets the matter that way is for the thread to decide.
That's not how companies work. Just because you own a third of something doesn't mean you can dictate how a third of that something is used. If we wanted to do it above board it would involve talking to the other shareholders and getting them to agree (to be fair, likely within Mathilda's ability). What Mathilda is talking about is going behind their backs and doing it anyway.
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Enthusiast#117
This is not the Profile you are looking for
- Location
- United States
I'm a fan of the cash option myself.
It's simple and clean.
Less opportunity for time-and-AP-wasting complications.
It's simple and clean.
Less opportunity for time-and-AP-wasting complications.
I don't think it's wrong exactly, simply slightly inferior to being given the gold in this situation.
I view it a bit like finding out that you're getting two hundred thousand dollars from a relative only to find out it comes in the form of walmart (or other major company of choice) gift vouchers. Obviously valuable and usable, just not quite as good as cash. She could probably just instantly sell it off for 90% of its value pretty easily and call it a day but it's obviously less flexible than cash. If she gets cash then she could utilize the EIC services and other services for the full amount she receives.
In some circumstances being given EIC credit would actually be superior to being given gold, such as if she lacked secure banking services. Since she lives in K8P that's not a problem here though.
I believe paying in wizard services is a step even beyond that I though since It's hard to imagine there being much of a use for it as a citizen of K8P and Mathilde would be the one judging what her services are worth. That would make this quite the dubious form of repayment to someone who doesn't know Mathilde. So it seems to me it goes Gold>Credit>Services as the most preferable to receive.
Giving EIC credit isn't anything like company scrip. Scrip creates implications of company towns and wage slavery. This is more like being given useful gift cards. Worse than cash but not horrifically awful either.
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