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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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@Boney thank you for the excellent update and the great story arc. You've done a great job. I can't exactly share in the exultations, but I think it's important to show my appreciation for all that you do.
 
[X] [WIDOW] Library: Ice Court
Glau said:
I figured she was just wondering if Mathilde had the dragonflask in her back pocket the entire expedition without ever needing to actually pull it out. Like, "oh, an ace you never showed".
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Luckily, no one notices you whiffing your counter-ambush when you're invisible!

So the events that played out from Ljiljana's perspective:
1) Ljiljana ice-murdering a tree-man, doo do doo~
2) Dryad attempts invisible backstab like an asshole, flips in midair for no reason, spoiling her own ambush
3) Ljiljana turns the ol' ice magic on the dryad, Dryad retreats
5) A moment later, Dryad is cut into two neat halves
6) Mathilde appears, using her fire breath (???) to set the dryad and everything else within 30 feet on fire.

Ljiljana: (Did Ranald have that portfolio when he left?) "Well it's no Ice Bear Hurricane, but... not bad. I guess."
 
[x] [KISLEV] Waystone Project: Hag Witches
[x] [KISLEV] Waystone Project: Kislev
[x] [WIDOW] Waystone Project: Ice Witches
 
[x] [KISLEV] Waystone Project: Hag Witches
[x] [WIDOW] Waystone Project: Ice Witches
 
[x] Waystone Project: Ice Witches

What we came for.

[x] Waystone Project: Hag Witches

More traditions for the foundation throne.
 
K von Carstein said:
If the Project is successful, as a legacy it will be much more significant than the library.

[x] [KISLEV] Waystone Project: Kislev
[x] [WIDOW] Waystone Project: Ice Witches
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Yeah. Actually repairing or expanding even part of the Waystone network is… massive. Permanent weakening of Chaos and all its bullshit, massive. Putting together enough knowledge to keep doing it? Even better.

Although, the Library just might be how we preserve that knowledge for future generations, if we ever get to that point. So they're both pretty cool.
 
[X] [KISLEV] Waystone Project: Kislev
[X] [WIDOW] Waystone Project: Ice Witches

If we have access to Kislev for the whole Project, we can earn the cooperation of the Hag Witches later.
 
[X] [KISLEV] Waystone Project: Kislev
[X] [WIDOW] Waystone Project: Ice Witches

My individuality is irrepressible. But also yeah the reasons here are obvious, the Waystone Project is kind of a culmination of Mathilde's life so far and will live or die on getting every scrap of information there is. If all they have to tell us is that the rocks are weird looking that's favour well spent.
 
StormySky said:
Boney What's the relationship like between the Ice Witches and Hag Witches? Do they have ins with each other the way the Hags and Ostermark Hedgewise do?
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Boney would give more details, but the relationship isn't exactly friendly. Ice Witches are Gospodar, Hag Witches are Ungol, and it's in the Ice Witches' best interest to maintain their position as the ones in power or favour with the nobility and/or royalty. The Hag Witches are occasionally persecuted like the Hedgewise are, but I'm not sure if it's the Ice Witches advocating for it or just Kislev.

Or Boney could just say that Mathilde has no idea, which is 100% valid. Sometimes we ask questions that Mathilde has no leads on.
 
Alright then. If the vote keeps tipping towards Kislev, then I guess we'll have to leverage a mix of leftover gratitude from solving the Drycha problem and Hedgewise connections to get the Hags. Though I'd still prefer to get them right now, with how so many people are impatient to get to laying the foundations next turn.

Then again, that leads to the issue of if we should use the Father side of the coin to get the Hedgewise, or the Gambler on the foundation-laying. Personally I'd prefer to wait another turn to finish up our recruiting, but I doubt I'd be able to convince the thread.
 
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Vokivas said:
My ignorance showing it's head again, I had no clue about this Haletha and how she's involved with the Hedgewise.
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Hello! You have summoned me with your mention of Ranald's daughters, and like a vengeful spirit I will haunt you until I fulfill my purpose of fully informing you of the glory of Halétha!
I see that @LawsOfRobotics has already linked you to my and @Codex's posts on the Hedgewise (thanks!). To this I could add my old theory compilation post. It is somewhat out of date but it should give you a quick rundown of most of the ideas the thread has brought up on the subject. After reading it you might take a look at this post, which contains some information gleaned from books on the Gods of the Empire which may be relevant (note that Boney is answering my questions, so the choice of subjects on which he is talking should not be taken as indication of anything other than my own suspicions).

On Ranald's daughters being twins: you are in fact misremembering! We have no indication that the sisters are twins. This is a common mistake - which also appears in my compilation post, how embarrassing - which I think stems from the following passage:
Boney said:
So you sigh, stand to leave, and then freeze as you turn towards the door and catch sight of the painting of Ranald and Shallya, because now among the picnicking couple and Their twin flocks of crows and doves are two small girls, one who heavily resembles Her father with a hint of Her mother, and the other Her mother with a hint of Her father.
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The word twin there refers to the two flocks of birds (crows and doves, birds associated with Ranald and Shallya respectively) but because it appears in such close proximty to the mention of two sisters it is easy to mix it up and think it is about them. One of the first theories mentioned was about actual twin Goddesses (Hekarti and Athari) which may have further cemented this misconception in some posters' minds.

On the relation between Ranald and The Widow - first, let's quote the passage that we are discussing:
Boney said:
"And now he seems to be making amends. You do not know the tale?" You shake your head. "The short of it is that the Widow and Her siblings were once much more than four, before Salyak had your Ranald interfere." She sighs, and closes her eyes again. "The details are ugly, and not to be shared with those outside Their service. In the aftermath They found us, the Gospodar. So perhaps it was for the best. But amends are still required."

You frown, considering that. "I thought Salyak was quite well established in Kislev."

"Salyak is easier to forgive," she says with a snort.
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The best theory proposed so far regarding this has been by suggested by @Codex. My understanding of her theory is (and she can correct me if I'm wrong on any of the details) is as follows:
The idea is that the Widow and her brothers are (were?) Ellinilli, the children of the elven disaster god Ellinill. Ellinill had over a hundred children, each dedicated to a specific disaster, and this kind of sucked for the elves because disasters are bad. The Goddess Isha then asked the God Loec to help the elves, and he did so by tricking Ellinill into thinking his children betrayed him. Ellinill then devoured most of children, though a few escaped. This story is mentioned in the conversation between Cython and Mathilde on what it means for Gods to have children:
Boney said:
"Of the Elves, the Ellinilli are easily the most numerous, even after Their culling. And then there is Nethu, born of a dalliance between Asuryan and Ereth Khial. Already we have a strong contrast, as Ellinill sired a hundred alone, budding them off from his individual facets, while Nethu's origin is very biological for beings lacking in flesh."
[...]
"Wherever it is that Gods typically come from, it seems parentage is an oddity - or perhaps They have reason to keep it secret most of the time. There's also significant variation in what that relationship means. Ellinill budded off children as a path to power, splitting Them off from His individual facets, and when that relationship threatened more than it benefited He sought to reverse that process and regain the power lost. In this we find support for my 'territory' model of divinity. Ellinill lessened Himself by withdrawing from individual facets of disaster to create His children, and attempted to regain that strength by retaking that conceptual territory."

"So Him 'devouring' his children was metaphorical? He instead reclaimed the territory He had granted them, and in doing so starved them?"

"It depends how separable a God is from Their domain. The intuitive models for beings of flesh is that a God is a single discrete entity that lives within Its domain, but beings of spirit may not be so limited. It could be that a God expands and contracts to match the territory It exists within, thus there would be little difference between supplanting and consuming. In either case, it seems that a God can create another God by either withdrawing from enough territory for a new God to emerge, or by splitting off the part of Themselves that occupies that territory. Similar to how a dragon with a greater territory than it requires might grant some to a child, so that a possible ally would be close at hand."

You frown in concentration as you consider this. This would make a God more like a nation than a single being, drawing belief from those living within a conceptual territory just as a nation draws tax from those living within its borders. If you take this metaphor further... Ellinill split off a hundred city-states from Its territory for... probably similar reasons that the Empire grants Imperial City charters, but then reconquered Them over fears they would secede completely? If you turned this metaphor on its head and considered nations to be like Gods, would Marienburg be a son of the Empire?
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Now, supposedly the Kislev pantheon are all siblings, and they used to be a lot more numerous. The only known example of a large number of siblings Gods is the Ellinilli, which were mostly killed off, just like the family of the Kislev pantheon. The domains of the Kislev pantheon could fit being disasters: Tor is lightning, Dazh is fire and/or drought, Ursun is getting eaten by bears and the Ancient Widow is winter/cold/old age? They might be like Mathlann, a God of drowning and shipwrecks that got rehabiltated as a God of sailing in general (but also drowning and shipwrecks), and this fits with the idea in Kislev that their Gods are kind of harsh. The Widow mentioned Ranald being asked by Salyak, which all but confirms that Salyak is Shallya which was already very likely. Ranald and Shallya bear some similarity to Loec and Isha, and their mention in this context seems to indicate that they are one and the same. Now, I personally am not 100% sure that Ranald=Loec and Shallya=Isha, I think they might be related by not quite identical. But in any case the story of the Kislev pantheon does seem very very similar to that of the Ellinilli.
Note that in this story no familial relation is mentioned between the Kislev pantheon and Ranald (or Salyak/Shallya), it's just that they interacted with them once. As you can see in my theory compilation post, there's no real substantial theory of Ranald's daughters that involves Kislev, and at this point I am fairly certain that Halétha is one and I have some ideas about the second that I will share at a later date.

Alright, that should be everything, if you have any more questions on Ranald's daughters feel free to ask.

seekingflame said:
To think this entire mess started because we agreed to give Paranoth a hand for one of his Order. And them completely overshadowed whatever we will get from him. I kind of forgotten about it.

Paranoth: "Well Mathilde, you have upheld your end of the bargain, here is the Magister that was promised."

Mathilde, coming back carrying a Hag Witch under one hand and a Ice Witch under the other: "the who what now?"
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"What can I say, Magister Patriarch? I welcome new purpose where and when I find it. It costs me time, but gains me allies and respect and interest in my original goals."

[x] [KISLEV] Waystone Project: Hag Witches
[x] [KISLEV] Waystone Project: Kislev
[x] [WIDOW] Waystone Project: Ice Witches
 
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