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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Glau said:
Yeah, the hidden assumption here seems to be that Drycha is paying this like a tabletop battle. In which the goal is basically to kill everything that opposes you, and things are always roughly balanced so it is possible.

I think that she's actually seeing this as an ambush, will flee when our reinforcements arrive, and has one particular target. Unexpected resistance is to be ignored if possible, and that includes any fools hunting her directly, so the objective can be accomplished and she can flee before the the mortal threat that she knows exists everywhere outside her woods can be brought to bear against her.

So my bet is that based on votes, we hunt her, she hunts Boris, and we lose that game because she's more powerful and well act first. We are going to end up in a running teleport chase away from the armies as she tries to get Boris to a world root before we can kill her or him.

Which, well massively cinematic, does put us in a one-on-one duel with her where we have to go to her and she knows it.
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I don't think she can do this. Drycha deeply cares about forest spirit losses. And that's because, from my impression, at least some of them are irreplaceable. If she cuts and runs and leaves this Treemen to die; there's one less Treemen that will ever exist in the world. She's made a major commitment of her limited forces, and if she abandons them to die she's permanently weakened in a major way. Treemen, ironically, don't grow on trees.

She needs to at least beat the Kislevites hard enough to withdraw in good order, so this is, I think, very much a conventional battle. Now, she also want to either kidnap or kill Boris, we don't know which, but this may change if her actual target appears and she realises it, but that's a victory condition on top of force preservation.
 
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God this vote us hard.
Voting for the spellcaster is the most logical but the Ulgu user can be just as dangerous.
Seems to be a "know high value enemy VS unknown possible very high value enemy".
So rather than vote for best target will vote based on the fact that our allies can see the spellcasters and go for them. Will maybe give the spellcasters the alpha strike but its better than giving an unknown enemy free initiative.

[X] Leader
 
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Artemis1992 said:
You are kinda ignoring Boris in this idea, who is still a hero-unit and has at least one magic item.

It would be really weird if she could just capture or kill him without rolling against him as well, besides rolling against us of course.
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If she teleports behind him while invisible, radiating a field of supernatural terror and another field that makes it impossible to recognise what's actually happening with a Mindrazor that hits as hard as our cannon-sword in hand I think he'd just die.

We don't know how much of this she can do, but I'd assume most of it.
 
Boney said:
On the path, a trio of the Dryads have not charged with their fellows, and Ghyran flows through them as they attempt to bend the forest to their will. When the scouts begin to return those three could prove easy prey for them, but to those without Windsight, they might seem a much lesser priority than the Dryads currently engaged - and if left unopposed, they could turn the tide of battle. Milica is closest to them, but is currently engaged with the Dryads in melee.
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Mathilde considers the branchwraiths to be easy prey for the entirely mundane scouts, presumably because they're doing their Ghyran ritual to suborn the forest.
Could we leave a message for the scouts that they shouldn't ignore them? Draw a shiny arrow with our MAP spell, before chasing after Drycha? Or would that alert Drycha to us?
 
If we didn't care about what damage Drycha might do or didn't want to attack her because we were scared of her then the optimal decision still wouldn't be to attack the casters. It would to continue to lying in wait and ambush Drycha right when she is in the middle of her attack. What she was attacking would likely die, but that should be her most vulnerable moment.

Of course if we still think she is too dangerous then we should flee. Because in that case attacking the casters doesn't really help.
 
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So Drycha 's willingness to engage our forces here is at least partially based on her terrible scouting rolls but what will she do when she realises just how bad her information is? Retreat and try to get more information, try to pull back and lure us into an ambush, double down on winning the fight somehow or just spend her forces to do as much damage as possible?
 
Alratan said:
If she teleports behind him while invisible, radiating a field of supernatural terror and another field that makes it impossible to recognise what's actually happening with a Mindrazor that hits as hard as our cannon-sword in hand I think he'd just die.

We don't know how much of this she can do, but I'd assume most of it.
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Sure, but that takes 4 spells.
If she stops to cast them one after the other we have time to strike first, if she tries to actually cast 4 spells at once while also striking in melee then I suspect even an ancient tree-spirit will have to roll not to explode, even besides possibly being dispelled.
 
I suggest the following:
[x] Cast a disguise upon yourself, making your shadowhorse and you look like a mounted Bright Wizard with an enchanted item on regular horseback and a regular magic greatsword. Use the Dragon Flask to attack the spell-casters and follow up with a mounted charge.

I think Illusion would be best for this, but I'm not sure. What would Mat thing about her chances of maintaing an Illusion, using the Dragon Flask, and fighting on shadowhorse are? Is that the kind of thing she can do, and would it actually provide some battlefield deception from a distance, or would a decent spellcaster smell the Ulgu on her? Could she try to pretend the Uglu is coming from the saddle of the horse? That's the idea anyway, that she pretends she's a Bright Wizard Knight type charging at them after casting a spell.

Then whoever is watching will not be ready for her actual skillset, if they don't see through the illusion or haven't scouted her yet (don't know enough to recognise her, or her fighting style).

Goal being to deal with the spellcasters, decieve whoever is watching, and reassess after. I'm just not sure how likely the disguise is to fool her, even if she doesn't see through it. How many people are there running around with enchanted greatswords?

I'll approval vote the regular Dragonflask use.
[X] Empty the dragonflask on the spellcasters
 
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Alratan said:
If she teleports behind him while invisible, radiating a field of supernatural terror and another field that makes it impossible to recognise what's actually happening with a Mindrazor that hits as hard as our cannon-sword in hand I think he'd just die.

We don't know how much of this she can do, but I'd assume most of it.
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Damn, now that we're facing someone with a similar build and modus operandi than Mathy, I'm feeling pity for the enemy she fought previously 😅 We´re kinda OP😁
 
primemountain said:
I suggest the following:
[x] Cast a disguise upon yourself, making your shadowhorse and you look like a mounted Bright Wizard with an enchanted item on regular horseback and a regular magic greatsword. Use the Dragon Flask to attack the spell-casters and follow up with a mounted charge.

I think Illusion would be best for this, but I'm not sure. What would Mat thing about her chances of maintaing an Illusion, using the Dragon Flask, and fighting on shadowhorse are? Is that the kind of thing she can do, and would it actually provide some battlefield deception from a distance, or would a decent spellcaster smell the Ulgu on her? Could she try to pretend the Uglu is coming from the saddle of the horse? That's the idea anyway, that she pretends she's a Bright Wizard Knight type charging at them after casting a spell.

Then whoever is watching will not be ready for her actual skillset, if they don't see through the illusion or haven't scouted her yet (don't know enough to recognise her, or her fighting style).

Goal being to deal with the spellcasters, decieve whoever is watching, and reassess after. I'm just not sure how likely the disguise is to fool her, even if she doesn't see through it. How many people are there running around with enchanted greatswords?
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I think you are outwitting yourself here.

If we do this we are suddenly a highly visible high-value target and we propably get either the Branchwraiths to stopp casting their ritual and instead focus on us, or have Drycha backstab us.
 
Do you think Drycha has any Grudges on her? I know that we don't get Dwarf favor anymore, but clearing Grudges is always helpful.
 
fictionfan said:
If we didn't care about what damage Drycha might do or didn't want to attack her because we were scared of her then the optimal decision still wouldn't be to attack the casters. It would to continue to lying in wait and ambush Drycha right when she is in the middle of her attack. What she was attacking would likely die, but that should be her most vulnerable moment.

Of course if we still think she is too dangerous then we should flee. Because in that case attacking the casters doesn't really help.
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Arguably, your proposal is a pretty sensible one, if something I think Mathilde wouldn't like.

Artemis1992 said:
Sure, but that takes 4 spells.
If she stops to cast them one after the other we have time to strike first, if she tries to actually cast 4 spells at once while also striking in melee then I suspect even an ancient tree-spirit will have to roll not to explode, even besides possibly being dispelled.
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As she can cast them while hiding we may not notice them depending on how good she is. She may also be able to do something like hide behind a thick tree or a fold of ground to block the magical emanations.

And if we do vote for the leader option, this is how I think we'd find her. If we vote to do something else she can cast her spells while we're busy doing whatever that is and unable to react because we're distracted by trying to kill whoever our target is.
 
Romv said:
Mathilde considers the branchwraiths to be easy prey for the entirely mundane scouts, presumably because they're doing their Ghyran ritual to suborn the forest.
Could we leave a message for the scouts that they shouldn't ignore them? Draw a shiny arrow with our MAP spell, before chasing after Drycha? Or would that alert Drycha to us?
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I trust the scouts to attack the branchwraiths on their own. Mathilde isn't sure they'll ID them as important but these are kislevites, engaged in an eternal battle against the chaos wastes. I'd be very disapointed in them if they can't spot the signs of casters getting up to something.
 
Artemis1992 said:
I think you are outwitting yourself here.

If we do this we are suddenly a highly visible high-value target and we propably get either the Branchwraiths to stopp casting their ritual and instead focus on us, or have Drycha backstab us.
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I have found no mention of Branchwraiths in the update. If you mean the three Driads currently casting? Well, setting them on fire and then charging them is supposed to get their attention. In a final and permanent fashion.

As for getting Backstabbed, I'd like to see her try it. She'll be going after a Bright Wizard, not a Grey one. Different prep, different expectations, and really, why go after the obvious, oblivious, fire caster when she has a real target to take? It's not like he's/she's a threat to someone like Drucha. Unlike a Grey Lady Magister.

EDIT: The whole point is to make an impact without making a massive target of ourselves. Which is what happens if Mathy starts teleporting around and mid-battle assasinating with all her skill. Like this, she's only a limited fire caster and a Knight. Not big enough of a threat for personal attention.
 
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What the debate boils down to is that both sides have an alpha strike combatant that they will use to devastating effect.

But only one side is aware of the other's alpha strike combatant.

Hopefully, our Alpha strike can take out their Alpha strike capability before they can use it.
 
Romv said:
Could we leave a message for the scouts that they shouldn't ignore them? Draw a shiny arrow with our MAP spell, before chasing after Drycha? Or would that alert Drycha to us?
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It would alert Drycha to you, would fade as soon a Mathilde's attention is needed elsewhere, and is unlikely to communicate the intended message.

primemountain said:
I think Illusion would be best for this, but I'm not sure. What would Mat thing about her chances of maintaing an Illusion, using the Dragon Flask, and fighting on shadowhorse are? Is that the kind of thing she can do, and would it actually provide some battlefield deception from a distance, or would a decent spellcaster smell the Ulgu on her? Could she try to pretend the Uglu is coming from the saddle of the horse? That's the idea anyway, that she pretends she's a Bright Wizard Knight type charging at them after casting a spell.
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Illusions take a lot of concentration to get right, and trying to engage in actual combat while doing so would be extremely bad for her fighting ability. But it's unlikely that an enemy caster will be able to do close enough scrutiny from across a battlefield to spot the Illusion.
 
There's a concept in MtG, which boils down to "never give your opponent a choice".

There's a card, Temporal Extortion:


Some people thought this card was incredibly overpowered when it was first revealed - 4 mana is very cheap for either of these effects, since halving a life total is normally a 6 mana effect, and an extra turn is normally a 5 mana effect. Plus, black normally doesn't get extra turns - that's a blue thing.

This card turns out to be awful. Because your opponent will always make the worst choice for you. If they're at 2 life, then this card becomes 4 mana for 1 damage. If you have no board presence and are mana flooded, then it becomes 4 mana to draw a single card.

To bring this back around to DL - if we attack Drycha, then we have a fight where we get the first strike advantage. If we let Drycha attack, then she might choose to have a fight with us where she has the first strike advantage - or, depending on the situation, she might choose something even worse for us.

Giving your opponent options in hopes they make a mistake is not a winning strategy.
 
Jreengus said:
I trust the scouts to attack the branchwraiths on their own. Mathilde isn't sure they'll ID them as important but these are kislevites, engaged in an eternal battle against the chaos wastes. I'd be very disapointed in them if they can't spot the signs of casters getting up to something.
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Actually these are southern Krugs. I would be surprised if they had ever been within a hundred leagues of the Wastes. That said depending on how glowy the spirits get they might recognize them anyway
 
I wonder if the Dwarves have any grudges against Drycha…
mathymancer said:
This is an argument for why taking down Drycha will be better than taking down the spellcasters if we actually manage to pull it off. It is not argument for how soloing Drycha is somehow safer than fighting the spellcasters, which a number of posters seem to be arguing. I agree that if we could snap our fingers and either take down the spellcasters or take down Drycha then the better pick is Drycha, but that's not our choice. We can try to go after the spellcasters, and we can try to go after Drycha alone, with no possible reinforcements coming to help us, I cannot stress this enough, but one choice is far likelier to end with us actually taking down our intended target than the other, and it is not the one where we solo Drycha.
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Okay, here's the thing that confuses me. Reinforcements are incoming. Now, sure, if Drycha manages to keep her stealth up while being actively targeted by someone who it obviously doesn't work against—this is assuming we're actually in combat with her, which requires us to be able to see through her stealth—then it's mildly possible that said reinforcements would ignore the magic lady, who scouted with them and pointed out the enemy spies, fighting an invisible opponent. On the other hand, the reinforcements aren't going to be along immediately, and that leaves Mathilde up against a single super dangerous target, or three very dangerous targets for however long that takes.

The fight with Drycha shouldn't take long enough for reinforcements to matter. She's a lone target we're attempting to alpha strike. The fight against the branchwraiths, however, might, and it's also possible that the reinforcements will do the same thing we're doing. Take a look at the battlefield, see all the targets that are occupied, and choose one to focus on. There's no garuntee we'll have backup against the spellcasters either.
 
Artemis1992 said:
You are kinda ignoring Boris in this idea, who is still a hero-unit and has at least one magic item.

It would be really weird if she could just capture or kill him without rolling against him as well, besides rolling against us of course.
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That's what the distraction carnifex manticore is for. She doesn't have to fight him if he's already got his weapon stuck in something else.
 
Ericwinter said:
Okay, here's the thing that confuses me. Reinforcements are incoming. Now, sure, if Drycha manages to keep her stealth up while being actively targeted by someone who it obviously doesn't work against—this is assuming we're actually in combat with her, which requires us to be able to see through her stealth—then it's mildly possible that said reinforcements would ignore the magic lady, who scouted with them and pointed out the enemy spies, fighting an invisible opponent. On the other hand, the reinforcements aren't going to be along immediately, and that leaves Mathilde up against a single super dangerous target, or three very dangerous targets for however long that takes.

The fight with Drycha shouldn't take long enough for reinforcements to matter. She's a lone target we're attempting to alpha strike. The fight against the branchwraiths, however, might, and it's also possible that the reinforcements will do the same thing we're doing. Take a look at the battlefield, see all the targets that are occupied, and choose one to focus on. There's no garuntee we'll have backup against the spellcasters either.
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I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. If Mathlide fights the spellcasters there are many possible forces that might help her at some point - Milica is fighting Dryads right now but as soon as she can break through she might come and help, or Ljiljana might, and if nothing else Johann is sure to come help us if it looks like we're having trouble once he arrives. But Drycha isn't here. She's 'somewhere out there', and Mathilde has to go and find her, and then Mathilde will be completely alone when she faces her, and we can't hope that anyone will come and bail us out because no one will know where we are.

Also, something I just realized - we're not going to want to use any magic if we go hunting for Drycha because that will alert her to us, but I think if we're attacking the spellcasters we might as well also throw some miasma on the Dryads Milica is fighting. Right? Is that a thing we can do? That increases the odds of Milica and the forces with her beating the Dryads and joining us in taking down the spellcasters, if that turns out to be too hard to Mathilde to do on her own.
 
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