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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Codex said:
It is whataboutism because you're taking my statement and twisting it to another situation I was never arguing for. I said it was overconfidence for one thing to happen and you barge in to say "but what about the risk entailed with...". I was merely pointing out the sheer hubris that the thread was building itself up for, not arguing one way or the other.
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OK fine:
It is sheer hubris to think we could survive a single second longer of letting Drycha live to have the first move, she will definitely murder us dead if we choose any option than leader

The above is an exaggerated version of my argument that I do not believe fully, but hopefully you can now see what I mean when I say that the argument of 'I think this is overconfidence' is indistinguishable from 'I think this is too risky' and can therefore be countered with 'I think not doing this is risky'

I hope this does not come off as overly pedantic, but I felt I needed to make my position clear.
 
Drycha is also obsessed with vengeance. If we start wrecking her special units, she's going to want payback against us (maybe not immediately, but definitely within the scope of the battle), and she doesn't strike me as the type of person to fall back after a few setbacks.
 
Murazor said:
I don't mean other ulgu using dryads, but rather Drycha using her own powers to hide some backup, just in case, seeing that this is a thing that she can definitely do in-quest, considering that the dryads appear to have been using ulgu to avoid detection until it was go time.
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If she is doing that she cannot cast spells, illusions of that scale are hard to maintain in battle while doing other spells, far more so that the purely anti-scrying measures we breached
 
Redshirt Army said:
The main thing to consider here is that we don't actually get to decide whether Mathilde faces Drycha or not - Drycha gets a vote too, so unless you think that she's going to sit out this entire battle because reasons, we're going to have to deal with her eventually anyhow.

That being the case, I'd much rather deal with Drycha by attacking her from stealth, rather than have to deal with Drycha after she attacks us from stealth.
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Honestly, I was ready to vote against engaging Drycha at any cost. I really really do not like our chances here. But...

This convinced me. "Never give your opponent a good option" has been something I have considered a lot when trying to create good strategies in a story or a strategy game or a card game. We must NOT allow her the first strike, it could turn the entire battle.

...I just hope the dice favors us. I do not want the quest to end, and I share none of the hubris that this will be easy. But even distracting her would be a win if we somehow manage to survive as well, so...

[X] Leader
 
Zero Gravitas said:
That's a fair point but we need to come at this from the perspective that whatever Drycha attacks - except for Mathilde who has the Belt and Seed - will have a very, very rough time.

We kill spellcasters - she kills one of the really powerful Ice Witches
We kill spellcasters - she kills Boris
We kill spellcasters - she casts battle magic spells and wrecks the infantry
We kill spellcasters - she comes after Mathilde with full initiative

Duelling Drycha is horribly dangerous but letting her have a free shot at something means something important gets deleted or Mathilde's layers of defences and backups get whittled down putting us in an even worse position to duel.
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No, it will not put us in an even worse position to duel her, because if we don't go hunting Drycha we won't face her completely alone and completely seperated from the rest of the army. If we have less allies to face her that will still be better than having no allies at all when we face her.

As I've said before, I completely agree that it will be better for our allies if Drycha is taken down than if the spellcasters are taken down. Obviously taking down the leader is best, how is this even a question? But we are far less likely to actually manage to pull it off, and far more likely to die. Just straight up die. Not lose some allies, not cede the initiative in a way that makes the rest of the battle harder, die.

We are managing risks and rewards here. If people want to take the high risk, high reward option, that's cool. But stop pretending that going after Drycha isn't far more dangerous than anything else we can do. It is.
 
Murazor said:
We are assuming that Drycha doesn't have some veiled bodyguards at hand... why, exactly?
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Because we're already catching glimpses through her illusions and it says nothing about multiple sources.
mathymancer said:
I don't know why you're so confident in that. She could be some distance away, using scouts or magic to see the battlefield. She could be deep in the forest, casting some sort of spell that will effect the battlefield from a distance. We absolutely do not know that she is within sight range of the battle.
I agree that if we need reinforcements something has gone wrong. That's the point. If something goes wrong fighting the Dryads we can still hope that someone bails us out, and there are a lot of possible someones that could bail us out and the enemies we are fighting aren't legendary lords. If something goes wrong against Drycha we die.
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If she's not within sight range, then she's not close enough for Mathilde to engage, and this becomes a moot point. And by "gone wrong", I mean we're fucking dead, because multiple fragile combatants being dangerous kills you very quickly, or gets resolved quickly. I don't see there being reinforcements available if we end up needing them.

Although, this does remind me that Mathilde… actually isn't all that fragile. We've got pretty good armor, a thing that hits her back if she hits us, and a sword that can smash Drycha to kindling if it hits her. Unless she hits significantly harder than a Khornate champion or is so uberskilled we don't stand a chance of touching her, we could take a few hits. Those few hits, however, would stack up very quickly against multiple enemies.
 
mathymancer said:
No, it will not put us in an even worse position to duel her, because if we don't go hunting Drycha we won't face her completely alone and completely seperated from the rest of the army. If we have less allies to face her that will still be better than having no allies at all when we face her.

As I've said before, I completely agree that it will be better for our allies if Drycha is taken down than if the spellcasters are taken down. Obviously taking down the leader is best, how is this even a question? But we are far less likely to actually manage to pull it off, and far more likely to die. Just straight up die. Not lose some allies, not cede the initiative in a way that makes the rest of the battle harder, die.

We are managing risks and rewards here. If people want to take the high risk, high reward option, that's cool. But stop pretending that going after Drycha isn't far more dangerous than anything else we can do. It is.
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Do we expect our allies to be able to meaningfully react in time to the teleporting lord with battle magic abilities? Frankly the only one I think is even in the league to do so is Grammy Winter and it's a coin toss or worse if she will be busy given how many fires there are to put out.
 
I was looking through Drycha's profiles, and I found a neat quote that is attributed to Drycha from 6th Edition:

"First they attacks us; severs and burns to build their halls and fuel their fires. Then they cages us; enfences us with great stones. Now they lives amongst and within, and they be thinking that their transgressions be paid no mind. Elvenfools believe that the forest is their home for now and for all times that lies ahead, but we are older than them. We will be here long after their bones are broken and their flesh is wormfoods.

So lets them keeps their lordling of ashes and their faerie queen. Lets them be holding their councils of light and gabbling courts of power. I knows the darkling places of the forest. I walks the silent ways that trammels and delivers, breaks spirit and twistses time upon itself. I knows where the eldest ones slumber, thems that have never awoken to find the Elvenfools underfoot. When they rises and sees, hears and tastes, their fury be roused and dreadful. Things be very different thereafter." Page 73 Wood Elves 6th Edition

Don't ask me why she speaks like Smeagol/Gollum. Not sure if Boney will attempt to replicate that. This passage is probably the best one for determining why Drycha is aligned with Ulgu. Also a good character piece.
 
This battle is a distraction so Drycha can ambush Boris. The forest or Halétha is actively resisting Drycha and helping us so we stand a chance of finding her before she can attempt her ambush. We have the tools for a powerful alpha strike on her, and for surviving and winning if that doesn't kill her or drive her off.

[X] Leader
 
Just to be clear, this is an assassination attempt, not a kidnapping one right?

Boney said:
this could only be the augured target of the hunt, the bearer of two intermingled royal bloodlines: one of the northern snow, one of the southern sands. A grin forms as forces begin to rally. Though the trees of this strange place are too deadened by the local magics to call for vengeance, they will still have it, and then one more tool of deliverance will be at hand.
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This is blatantly a declaration of assassination right? I'm not missing some context in their culture where they treat their hunts like people fish where they just do a little bit of maiming and tearing before releasing their game back to the wild?

I am still not sure Mathilde will be the highest priority if we pick Spellcasters

This assumes that:

1. The objective hinges on the spellcasters
2. Drycha will act in the first place
3. Drycha would act towards Mathilde

There's a good chance the dryads aren't even worth acting for and the plan hinges on the treeman crossing the river or the manticore distracting Boris' guard.

Drycha also hasn't acted yet, she might just not act and just observe and keep believing she's still hidden. She might also have overconfidence in her Branchwraiths and won't even think a single wizard could be as powerful as Mathilde is.

Even if Mathilde does slaughter the Branchwraiths, what's stopping her form just picking a better match-up? Pick Milica off, kill the infantry, or just pray and go charge for Boris' neck.

Codex said:
"First they attacks us; severs and burns to build their halls and fuel their fires. Then they cages us; enfences us with great stones. Now they lives amongst and within, and they be thinking that their transgressions be paid no mind. Elvenfools believe that the forest is their home for now and for all times that lies ahead, but we are older than them. We will be here long after their bones are broken and their flesh is wormfoods.
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She speaks like Gollum? I was hearing Jaina Pridemoore in my head tbh.
 
Swantree said:
This is blatantly a declaration of assassination right? I'm not missing some context in their culture where they treat their hunts like people fish where they just do a little bit of maiming and tearing before releasing their game back to the wild?
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Well, "one more tool of deliverance will be at hand" suggests that this is about getting implements to break Coeddil out of the Wildwood- which makes sense, that's Drycha's main goal in general.

So there's a question of what she hoped to get from the Boyar, which I would think is either the Boyar himself or his blood, either way for some kind of ritual.

I think it's entirely possible that she's looking to kidnap Boris, the general vengeance talk might be about the fighting in general/the fact that the kidnapped target would most definitely be dying painfully later.
 
Swantree said:
This is blatantly a declaration of assassination right? I'm not missing some context in their culture where they treat their hunts like people fish where they just do a little bit of maiming and tearing before releasing their game back to the wild?
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Not ncessarily. It means that they want the Boyar, but they don't necessarily want him dead. Maybe they want him alive to sacrifice later, or maybe they want some of his blood due to magical properties it holds.

The stuff about vengeance is not really linked, the forest has timber taken from it, which is reason enough for vengeance for most forest spirits. It's a side benefit, a secondary objective. The deliverance thing is most likely about a way to break Coeddil out of his prison.
 
[x] Spellcasters

I think being able to remove the visible threat of three magic users attempting to cast is the priority. We've seen the effects of magic-users working together to turn the tides of battle again and again, including driving off greater deamons. Drycha, if indeed it is, could do the same or aim to gank one of the heroes, most likely Boris. The question comes down to take down the immediate threat or take down the hidden ace/commander. We don't know what Drycha will do, but we do know what the spellcasters will do. It's a bad position to be in.
 
If the Branchwraiths use their battle magic to animate the trees, would it be Assuming Direct Control, or closer to Drycha's Rousing the Wrath in terms of how much control the Branchwraiths have in a forest that doesn't seem cooperate?
 
Ganurath said:
If the Branchwraiths use their battle magic to animate the trees, would it be Assuming Direct Control, or closer to Drycha's Rousing the Wrath in terms of how much control the Branchwraiths have in a forest that doesn't seem cooperate?
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Roused to Wrath is a special spell for Drycha. I can't comment on the Forest's involvement here, but the Lore of Athel Loren allows casters to move trees. I assume the trees just uproot themselves and walk over or something. Maybe telport. They can also use Awakening of the Woods to make the trees start slapping everyone and dealing a lot of damage. They can also probably teleport between the trees. There's a lot they could do, it's literally their favored terrain.
 
BurnNote said:
Hmm, Nekharan+Kislev bloodline makes me think of the "Boyar is a vampire" theory. Maybe related to Katarin.
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Would just like to point out that Boyar Kalashnikov has the same family name as Kattarin the Bloody's descendants in canon, who were based out of Praag, which he was also visiting. Boris might also apply if Pavel was actually Kattarin's son, but considering Drycha was targeting the local villages specifically and only expected to fight Village militias, I'm inclined to believe the Boyar was the target.

Like, if Mathilde had not gotten involved, this whole Shirokij trap would've only lured the local Boyars instead of the Tsarevich. Boris and co. only got called in when Mathilde sounded the alarm. In fact, the Kreml Guard wouldn't have been able to reach the trap if we hadn't used RoW to speed them up.

[x] Leader
 
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I was initially against going for Drycha because of the inherent danger, but I've become convinced by the thread that it's far more dangerous to let her strike first, and that Mathilde attacking with an unexpected first strike maximizes her advantages and minimizes Drycha's. I just hope it's enough.

[x] Leader
 
Leader continues to strike me as the worst of both worlds. We leave the forces of Kislev to deal with everything on the battlefield by themselves, including a guaranteed hostile battle magic, and then we throw Mathilde at what is likely the most dangerous fight she has ever initiated. In a battle where time is our ally and friendly reinforcements are incoming.
 
Actually, I like this tactic.

[X]Leader
-[X] When discovered, cast universal confusion at the Dryads with attached Smoke and Mirrors to teleport into combat with leader. Fake a charge at the dryads as well if range is not enough.
 
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