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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Nerdasaurus Rex said:
I believe that Dryads are about as flammable as the average human.
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Yeah, but there are disadvantages inherent in the flask. I wouldn't want to use it against a mobile target like Drycha, and especially not in a non cleared section of the forest. The battlefield is safe because it's full of trees that have been cut down, but blasting the flask in the middle of the forest could very well cause a forest fire, and I'm not sure the Forest would be all that grateful if we did that. We're kind of relying on it deciding that Drycha is not to be assisted here.

There's also the sore throat thing to keep in mind.
 
mathymancer said:
No, it will not put us in an even worse position to duel her, because if we don't go hunting Drycha we won't face her completely alone and completely seperated from the rest of the army. If we have less allies to face her that will still be better than having no allies at all when we face her.

As I've said before, I completely agree that it will be better for our allies if Drycha is taken down than if the spellcasters are taken down. Obviously taking down the leader is best, how is this even a question? But we are far less likely to actually manage to pull it off, and far more likely to die. Just straight up die. Not lose some allies, not cede the initiative in a way that makes the rest of the battle harder, die.

We are managing risks and rewards here. If people want to take the high risk, high reward option, that's cool. But stop pretending that going after Drycha isn't far more dangerous than anything else we can do. It is.
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The problem is that the rest of the army is probably going to be busy with Drycha and the rest of her forces if we go after the spellcasters.

Like Mathilde is the cavalry - she's by far the most mobile friendly on the battlefield, she's the stealthiest friendly on the battlefield, she's one of two or three hardest hitting people on the battlefield and she's got the most diverse survival toolkit with the Belt and Seed.

We can't rely on timely backup because we are the timely backup - we can either duel Drycha or kill the spellcasters and deal with what Drycha does in the meantime later on.
 
Codex said:
Yeah, but there are disadvantages inherent in the flask. I wouldn't want to use it against a mobile target like Drycha, and especially not in a non cleared section of the forest. The battlefield is safe because it's full of trees that have been cut down, but blasting the flask in the middle of the forest could very well cause a forest fire, and I'm not sure the Forest would be all that grateful if we did that. We're kind of relying on it deciding that Drycha is not to be assisted here.

There's also the sore throat thing to keep in mind.
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Oh yeah, the flask is for ending battles, not starting them. I wouldn't want to use it unless I knew there was no follow up in the brief window where we're vulnrable.
 
Ericwinter said:
Ah, fair enough, though I think the original comment was more that Mathilde wouldn't be doing sneaky stuff with her magic, instead openly attacking the dryads with it, and that Drycha would more readily recognize her own kind of magic, not necessarily notice.

…Huh? I'm sorry, are you trying to say that her magic and stealth isn't as useful because she had to bring an army? Because, uh, she's more dangerous with the army. It's what made the battle possible, and a battle is where she's the most dangerous. It's not an either or thing, they compliment each other.
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No that is not what I am saying. What I am saying the fact that she needed an army means that her magic alone is not sufficient. Thus putting an upper cap on how damaging her magic is. Yes she is more dangerous with an army, but so is her opponent and I believe the net improvement favours her opponent.
Alratan said:
Because a solo teleporting Ulgu battlemage, even a superhuman one like Drycha, is vastly less effective without having an army to pin enemies in place for her to target, whether for teleport assassinations, for the big spells that do direct damage like Pit of Shades, or massively buff units like Mindrazor. I mean, seriously, is she get Mindrazor off on a unit of dryads they'd probably go through the Kidlevite like hot knives through butter.
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Actually for purposes of assassination it is more efficient for the teleporting Ulgu battlemage to sneak/teleport and do the killing off the battlefield: where there are lot less hostile and aware bodies. The fact that Drycha isn't doing this: she is bringing an army, means there is a limit to how effective her teleporting assassination is.
 
VoiceOfTheRiders said:
Actually for purposes of assassination it is more efficient for the teleporting Ulgu battlemage to sneak/teleport and do the killing off the battlefield: where there are lot less hostile and aware bodies. The fact that Drycha isn't doing this: she is bringing an army, means there is a limit to how effective her teleporting assassination is.
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Drycha has a harder time blending into a human city then we do. Also she doesn't have a divine coin making her undetectable in a city. I have doubts she even speaks the local language.
 
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Also to everyone who is adamant that we must face Drycha or else risk total disaster, what would have happened if Mathilde decided to quit early: a valid option we had. Would Kislev auto-lose? I don't think so. Dyrcha is not all powerful, nor are we the only possible option to deal with her. Yes, our actions can and hopefully will minimize casualties, but I really doubt that not engaging Drycha is an auto loose for us.
 
fictionfan said:
Drycha has a harder time blending into a human city then we do. Also she doesn't have a divine coin making her undetectable in a city. I have doubts she even speaks the local language.
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That's probably an understatement if there ever was one.

Mathilde is the absolute best at assassination missions in human cities of the Old World - probably in the Karaz Ankor as well. She's got the shadow magic toolkit, she's got the training, she's got divine intervention and she's got one of the most deadly weapons made in the past couple thousand years.

Drycha has shadow magic and some experience on the battlefield so she's not terrible but Mathilde might just legitimately be the top human infiltrator.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
You cant use the flash and shadow magic at the same time like this, that's the problem the thread has been struggling with since we got it.
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You're misreading the suggested option. Flash first, shadow in after. While the fires are burning, since it's a forest and they're made of wood, I assume the area being hit will still be on fire, after the Dragonflask is done. So after it is done, ghost in while invisible into the still burning forest relying on the belt to protect her from the flames, and the flames and fire burst to hide her use of follow up shadow magic (invisibility and shadowhorse).

Is that clearer?
 
Mopman43 said:
I mean, probably, yeah. It would have been the forces of a single Boyar with little-to-no magical support against everything Drycha could bring to bear.
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Fair enough. I was more thinking of once the army is gathered. Pretty sure Drycha doesn't have an auto-win if she is not immediately focused down by an Ulgu user. Which means that this choice isn't face Drycha or lose.
 
From what I can see we won't be able to avoid fighting Drycha - no one else is fast enough to intercept her when she tries to jump in, and we don't have any Hysh mages, so Ulgu to fight Ulgu. So it's a question of what we do first, and how much of our capabilities we reveal before we're fighting her.

That is not to say they are doomed without us - they would probably win. It's just a matter of we'll either be the target or there will be no way we don't vote to get involved if given the chance.
 
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primemountain said:
You're misreading the suggested option. Flash first, shadow in after. While the fires are burning, since it's a forest and they're made of wood, I assume the area being hit will still be on fire, after the Dragonflask is done. So after it is done, ghost in while invisible into the still burning forest relying on the belt to protect her from the flames, and the flames and fire burst to hide her use of follow up shadow magic (invisibility and shadowhorse).

Is that clearer?
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Problem is, Mathilde will have severe difficulty casting for at least several minutes after using the Flask.

Because she won't be able to speak.
 
So, it occurs to me that the branch wraiths can probably counter spell the seed.

It also occurs to me that since Drycha is here due to divination, her being suprised by the magnitude of forces arrayed against her is less likely.

Redshirt Army said:
Right, but that's not really the situation.

Our choice is something like:

Attack Drycha:
1d100 + 40 + 15 (Ambush) vs. 1d100 + 60

Attack Spellcasters:
1d100 + 40 + 15 (Ambush) vs. 1d100 + 10
1d100 + 40 vs. 1d100 + 10
1d100 + 40 vs. 1d100 + 10
1d100 + 40 vs. 1d100 + 60 + 15 (Ambush)
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Or, Drycha ignores us and goes after her actual target. The world doesn't revolve around Mathilde.

Also note that "attack Drycha" requires us to figure out where she is, exactly, and get to her without being noticed BEFORE we can attack.

Nerdasaurus Rex said:
I'm not sure I'm understanding the arguments against hunting Drycha at all.
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It's the most likely option to result in Mathilde's death, and we don't really have anything at stake in this battle.

DragonParadox said:
It is sheer hubris to think we could survive a single second longer of letting Drycha live to have the first move, she will definitely murder us dead if we choose any option than leader
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I mean, you are assuming, again, that if we go hunting for her we WILL find her and we WILL get first strike. Neither of those two things is reliable. And that changes the odds a lot.

Ericwinter said:
Because we're already catching glimpses through her illusions and it says nothing about multiple sources.
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We are? That's a very generous interpretation of the following statement:

Boney said:
There is a wisp of Ulgu here that is very much not of the namesake of the forest, and the forest is resisting all attempts of it to blend in to its shadows, giving you tiny glimpses of it out of the corner of your soul.
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This is not an enemy we can see or locate easily. "Out of the corner of your soul" when we have 360 degree windsight is my clue.
 
Man, when I signed off early last night and had a late start today, I did not know what I was in for.
Boney said:
The root of the tension
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Heh. Root. It's funny cause they're tree spirits.
DragonParadox said:
I am not sure we should use the flask, it will make is harder for us to cast for half an hour or so and that might as well be en eternity in battle. I think that is the sort of weapon you use in desperate need or you end the battle with.
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It's not half an hour:
Boney said:
As long as you give it a few minutes before doing any verbal spellcasting, none to speak of.
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"A few minutes." My personal interpretation of that is "no more than five." Granted, five minutes is also an eternity in hand-to-hand combat, but my pedantry knows no bounds.

[X] Leader
Was originally thinking Spellcasters, but reading the discussion convinced me. The key insight is that we don't actually have an option that avoids facing Drycha on the battlefield -- or, rather, we did, but we chose not to pursue it when we decided to help out Kislev. So it's "try to get the first shot in on her," which is unlikely to end the fight but does seem likely to tie her up from whatever else she might do, or it's "ruin the day of one of her minions and hope that when she engages on her terms it's not so bad," which seems wishful thinking to me. I don't want her to get to engage on her terms, so I'm willing to shift risk towards "risk to Mathilde's well-being personally" so that we can shift it away from "risk to the Tsarevich and to this battle as a whole."

Our goal here is still to get the Ice Witches on our side, and, if we can't do that, not to let Tsarevich Boris die. Assuming greater personal risk to make that happen is just part of the game.
 
ChronOblivion said:
Leader continues to strike me as the worst of both worlds. We leave the forces of Kislev to deal with everything on the battlefield by themselves, including a guaranteed hostile battle magic, and then we throw Mathilde at what is likely the most dangerous fight she has ever initiated. In a battle where time is our ally and friendly reinforcements are incoming.
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I think the Krugs are quite likely to hit the casters even if they don't realize they're magic capable, since it's a unit relatively unsupported near their line of advance, that's also not pinned down so is free to maneuver. So a good choice to pick off quickly.

The time argument cuts in multiple directions. Long term the forces of Kislev are very likely to force out the Dyrad's once their full muster arrives. That doesn't mean there aren't moments before that where time is potentially heavily against them during which they could see heavy casualties on key figures.
 
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Something to also keep in mind is that a Kislev army is about to smash into this force. If this is all Drycha has at hand, she is going to have a incredibly bad time no matter what happens.
 
Glau said:
It also occurs to me that since Drycha is here due to divination, her being suprised by the magnitude of forces arrayed against her is less likely.
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Everything in her section suggested that she thinks she's just fighting the forces of a single Boyar. She doesn't even know the Winged Lancers are here- her scouts only reported the Ungol Horsemen (bare horses).
 
Glau said:
It also occurs to me that since Drycha is here due to divination, her being suprised by the magnitude of forces arrayed against her is less likely.
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Divination can be wrong.

This one appears to have failed to account for a Mathilde interrupt to the plan. Which has thrown everything into chaos and means she isn't even attacking who she thinks she is.
 
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