Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

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SadSack said:
Reading about the Warhammer Army project...are Order worshipping Fimir possible here too? Or Beastmen/Skaven/etc?
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No, they are not for this quest. In this quest Chaos already owns in totallity the fimir, and the Beastmen. Skaven are owned by the horned rat, I believe.

On Khuresh and Beastmen, plus those beastmen of the East
torroar said:
The snakemen and their Blood Naga Queens are their own thing. They're pretty malicious to all things, sort of like the Dark Elves of the bestial and beast-adjacent races. Terribly monstrous, and their own unique entities. They're happy to harvest the blood from the Frostlords as much as the human kingdoms of Khuresh. I've diverged a chunk away from the wiki - what little there is - specifically where they say that humans are no more than prey. Nah. In this universe, the Hinterlands of Khuresh are divided between the Serpent Realms and the Khureshi Kingdoms. Of the snakemen and the humans, respectively. The Serpent Realms worship Chaos openly, and the snakemen are all that remains of when they first helped Chaos overrun the world when the Gates were broken.

The Beastmen were created from the ancient humans alive when Chaos first broke into the world.

The snakemen came slithering out of the Realm of Chaos already formed and aligned to the Dark Gods. Age sort of like Lizardmen, in that they don't, but while the Lizardmen are pure meat robots created by the Old Ones, the snakemen are run on blood/souls, I suppose in a manner similar to vampires, really. Only they are absolutely alive, while vampires are undead. Also the whole Chaos alignment thing. The snakemen are not friends to the beastmen, and no matter what the beastmen say about them being the true heirs to Chaos, the snakemen were there just as they were. Only now the snakemen have been reduced only to Khuresh, and are quite bitter indeed about it. You would be too, if you came out in the first waves alongside the daemons. They hate humanity as well, as the beastmen do, for many of the same reasons. All of a sudden, the snakemen were no longer the most favored.

The closest relation the snakemen have in the Old World is the Fimir, who are more lizardy while the snakemen are more...well, you know. Snake-y.

Unlike the Fimir with their crude piles of rock, or the beastmen with their hovels and blood grounds, or the frost lords and their literal nothing [mostly they do that penguin thing where they show their backs to the winds in a big huddle during particularly bad weather], the Serpent Realms are, horrifyingly civilized. In that it is a society given wholly over to worship of the Dark Gods, though Khorne is pretty ascendant due to the proclivities of the Blood Naga Queens and their dominance. But there are also the Writhing Naga Queens, Sorceress Naga Queens, and the Plague Naga Queens. They have their enormous temples, their cities, and the coin is always in lives/blood. Either from snakemen, beastmen, animals, humans, or otherwise.

Cathay doesn't like them, but with its forces focused on internal matters, the Great Bastion, Nippon, the Khanates, ogre raids, rebellions, potentially skirmishes with Ind, Dark Elf raids, etc....they can't spare the resources it would take to tear down an entire civilization root and stem.

Plus, the Serpent Realms don't like the beastmen, and actively enjoy them rushing in their vast numbers, because that's more blood and souls for them to feed upon. They've never allied once, ever. I could imagine, say, an Everchosen pulling that off, but...it would likely go as well as Sigvald and Throgg did during the End Times.
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torroar said:
They are profoundly, inextricably, bound up by their own creation/realization in the world as malicious byproducts and tools of the Chaos Gods. They are pitiable in that, I think, because unlike humans, dwarfs, elves, and others, at the end of the day while they have the choice of stomping a human baby into mush or eating a human baby raw and alive, at the end of the day they don't really have the power of true and actual Choice. They have an innate desire to destroy/defile/devour, because that is how the Chaos Gods like them. In fact, one of the reasons that the Chaos Gods stopped favoring them so much is because the Beastmen were SO incapable of defying them or choosing to do or act in a way against them that they weren't entertaining.

Consider that.

The Chaos Gods got bored of them...because as a race, top to bottom, they were simply always going to serve them one way or another. Because they, quite simply, couldn't do otherwise.

Mutated people have a chance, certain spells and artifacts can remove their corruption, purify them. Most will never experience such things, and yet even then they have time. There's even a novel about it, about a guy undeniably mutated, who actively works against the Dark Gods and their servants, and the whole time he KNOWS that at some point down the road the voices of the Dark Gods will grow too loud for his mortal mind and soul to resist. But he has time before now and then to make them pay.

The Beastmen proper don't have that period of freedom, only the turnskins could boast such things. They are disgusting, horrible, violent, etc. because they were crudely created that way, and for that the blame falls on the Ruinous Powers. If, perhaps, you could block off the Polar Gates again, they might be free of that permanent influence. If you put them in a room that was blocked off with runes from the Ancestor Gods of the dwarfs and spellwork of the Slann to create a wholly deadened zone through which the Warp would be unable to affect, you might get some different versions of the Beastmen.

But the moment you let them out of that room, into a world touched from head to toe, corner to corner, by the Winds of Chaos?

They are lost.

The Ruinous Powers would immediately seize upon the idea of a Beastman that is not utterly enthralled by them, and would crush their existence into a new more 'pleasing' shape.

They've got their grudges, their outrage, their causes and guttural speeches and evil spells and what have you, but at the end of the day, they are unfortunately what the Chaos Gods made of them, which are the ones who are ultimately to blame for creating such a tortured existence in the first place. Even the Fimir, the rapey flesh-eaters who live in swamps, have more choice than the Beastmen. You're more likely to get a Fimir to abandon the Chaos Gods than a Beastman. Beastmen are not merely driven by their instincts to kill, to devour, to raze, they are driven by the levers implanted in their very souls bubbling out of the Warp, levers around which the Ruinous Powers have had, will have, and will never not have, pushed to the hilt. If a couple deep in the woods gave birth to a Beastman, a true Beastman, not just a mutant who happens to have horns and hooves and fur, they would, one day, be driven by the Ruinous Powers to take a bite out of dear old mom and dad, and then another, and then another, until they were nothing more than a burp and a pile of shit on the ground to be forgotten in search of the next meal. Their house would be razed into the ground, because again, innate hateful drive to destroy all civilization including houses. And that would be that. The only difference is that it would take longer for the Ruinous Powers to drive the mutant insane and have them do the same. It's not good, it's not great, and it's not even representative of IRL, because in IRL the greatest monsters are still often human on some level or another. INB4 Hitler was a vegetarian and cried when his mom died and all that. The Beastmen don't have those minor forms of humanization or complexity, of anything like that at all, because at the end of the day they AREN'T natural, the natural world is an affront to them and they to it. They quite simply aren't allowed to be that complex, because the Ruinous Powers are dicks like that, and that's the way they want it.

Still. Is it possible? Sure, almost anything is with the Warp reflecting all possibilities. But, grimdark, no one has the time, resources, or power to maintain such an experiment while there is just...so much else crushing down on them.

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Now, beastmen on the other hand, are like the ones from Ind and those that live in Khuresh. Bestial folk, fully sentient, capable of Choice on level that the Beastmen proper cannot match. The Tigermen have heads like great cats, maybe some claws and tails, but the bodies generally of 'regular' humans. They are altered, changed, yes, but more like a Gryphon or Pegasus, creatures who have not been twisted but simply...changed into a stable and self-propagating kind which can make their own decisions. Ironic, perhaps, that Beasts only capable of existing through the mutative effects of Chaos having more Choice to them than Beastmen. The Tigermen are mercurial, as like to aid as to harm, and have their own culture and wonts and needs. The naga and such in Khuresh are....mmm, I described previously how I've built them to have slithered out of the Warp so but they're also more independent than Beastmen as well, not to mention capable of creating cities and such, even if they are horrific locations of sacrifice and bloodletting. But they can craft, they can excel, they can Choose, at least far more than the Beastmen proper can.

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Finally, you have beast men. Such as the sentient monkeys what live in Cathay, who are bipedal and all that with culture, industry, weapons, tools, etc. Past the Tigermen in terms of being fully animal, and like Gryphons and Pegasi in being just...who they are, without being bound body and soul before and after birth and death like the Beastmen are. So they are their own thing as well, and can be both good or bad, and so on and so forth. Right up in the northern mountains of Cathay, so closer to the Chaos Wastes and all that, but still...an independent if small polity/race.

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Skaven....mmm. As aforementioned, they do have the Black Hunger, the whole 'immediately commit cannibalism at BIRTH' thing. It was noted by a Greater Daemon of the Horned Rat in the End Times that a genuinely loyal and faithful skaven was a metaphysical aberration. They eat each other in the litter, devour them, and basically don't stop after they've reached maturity. Certainly, their culture is learned, but they were also sorta-kinda engineered by the Horned Rat to be the way they are. Sometimes they get too into it, and It slaps them around, but for the most part everything that the Skaven do is as the Horned Rat likes. They are altered by the Horned Rat to be who they are, the Breeders are chemically and warpstone and magically altered to be what they are, and it is they who give birth, so it's basically like pumping the womb fully of three kinds of mutative alteration and such, and the eggs themselves, which sorta dooms any skaven born from said womb from the start. If you somehow got a living Breeder, and somehow cleansed her of all the warpstone, the generational mutation, flushed the chemicals nonlethally, and kept her alive somehow? Yes, I guess you might be able to eventually breed out a skaven and raise them different.

But uh...literally no one in-universe wants to do that. Or ever will.

That's...kind of Warhammer, you know? There's a chance, but we can't afford to take it because of [gestures at just...just everything].

We, as IRL humans, can look upon things like this and go 'ah man, that sucks that Beastmen are inextricably bound to mostly omnipotent Idiot Gods in all ways, in a manner that is utterly unnatural that simply couldn't happen and is impossible to relate/compare to anything in real life with its sheer brutality and horror.' Well, the humans in Warhammer would probably agree! And yes, the nature of being GM and there being quests and such is such that we can change and alter and wiggle about with certain things, but for me there's a line between making things make a bit more sense, and it just...sort of not being Warhammer anymore. There are some things that can be made better, be changed. There are some things that can't. And for all that magic, all that reality warping, that's something true in Warhammer as it is in real life. Frankly, that's one of the most fantastical things, that they are some things which are just...evil? And not grey? I think that's amazing. There's a lot of grey in real life, but one of the things I like about fantasy is that sometimes there really are just good people, and there really are just some bad things that need to go away. That you can fight, rather than flail uselessly at an infinitely powerful faceless grey corporate entity or uncaring callous government, something you can point at and say 'This is Evil' and there are no lobbyists or lawyers or bribed people to support them. Just everyone going 'yep, evil, hit it with sword'. And sometimes it's fun to be cartoonishly evil, gwee hee hee, etc. because you know that it's straight evil and not something you'd do in real life. Fantasy, man. Where things can be simpler in a way that real life can't always match. And sometimes I like it when there is complexity, and grey, for instance, SWTOR Sith not being sheer super villains always with the Dark Side, more of a half/half rather than good/evil thing. Just saying, you know, I'm not purely binary in my tastes for this sort of stuff. There's a good bit in the show 'The Good Place' where the complexities of modern life makes even choosing to eat a Tomato karmically bad, because you're supporting unwholesome farming practices, even if you aren't aware of it, abusive labor, helping corrupt corporate executives out by buying their product, pesticides, etc. Sometimes, you want something complex and rich with depth, sometimes you just want something cut and dry/good or evil. For me, often beastmen and skaven fall into the latter category.

I could make a story in Blasphemous where everything goes great at the end and the sacrifice turns out to not be meaningless, and all the people in the Color Out of Space are completely okay, and all the good people on Train to Busan live and only the bad people die, and lighting the flame in Dark Souls 1 makes everything good forever always, nd so on and so forth. But uh, doing so would make that work its own independent thing, you know what I mean?
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torroar said:
1. He's been around the world once or twice, but the Old World is his main haunt for multiple reasons.

2. Yes. The Tigermen and the Monkey-Folk are not proper Beastmen though, they are beast men. Beastmen i.e. gors/ungors and the like do exist, as per the distribution map, and are just another enemy that both nations have to deal with. Tigermen have the heads, and some tails, minor furs and feet, but are their own thing, not bound to the Chaos Gods like Beastmen are. Same for the Monkey-Folk, of whom some serve as auxiliaries in the armies of the Celestial Empire.
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torroar said:
These are also problems, yes. The Tigermen and the Monkey-Folk don't like Beastmen. Tigermen are nomadic save for a few sacred sites, but they actually do have a secretive and secluded society within the lush jungles of Ind. The Monkey-Folk literally have their own civilization going in the upper peaks of the Mountains of Heaven with small cities and cloud bridges. They're just as much targets of the Beastmen as any others, even more so because a lot of the beastmen in those areas see these not-quite Beastmen doing un-Beastmen like things, and it pisses them off even more than just humans. 'Humans are humans, but these guys should know better' kind of perspective.
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torroar said:
About human level, I suppose? The Tigermen are not a unified group, hence the legends and stories of some helping travelers when they are lost and others about slaughtering anyone who enters into their territory. Some have fallen to Chaos, some end up mutated and going the way of mutants/Beastmen proper, but not all of them.

Monkey-Folk I'd say are about the same. Their civilization is mostly locked up in the Mountains of Heaven, basically as an entire surrounded country thanks to the current Monkey King's policies keeping them and the greater Celestial Empire antagonistic. They've had different policies in the past, and were once far more integrated, but the Monkey King wanted more than just the Mountains of Heaven, he wanted all of Cathay. Technically in his vision, it would unify their two nations and make them all the stronger.

Unfortunately for him, only descendants of the original First Celestial Dragon Emperor are allowed to sit on the throne as Emperors or Empresses, outside of regents/stewards in special circumstances. There's a nice bit of hypothetical concept art featuring a Monkey King who has fallen under the sway of Chi'an Chi, but all we really know is that in canon a Monkey King eventually allied with Clan Eshin of the skaven to take over the palace, though it didn't last.

Information warfare being what it is, and the Mountains of Heaven being like vertical trench warfare to try and get up, it's entirely unknown which Monkey King rules them at the moment, if it is the same one that has somehow extended his life, or his descendants carrying on his vision.

Either way, sometimes they do fall to Chaos as any people might, or are mutated in other fashions that inevitably draw them to Chaos.
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Cheap Orange Knofe said:
Picture this.
You're Emperor Valmir von Chaos.
You just lost several armies, chaos portal, and your buddy BirdBrain got permazapped.
The enemy keeps their super mage and you+whats left of your army have to go against it.
Good thing it fell asleep.

Oh. It woke back up like someone stabbed it with an Epipen.
How well do you do?
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torroar said:
Unfortunately, the way this vote is being structured, nothing in it inherently 'solves' any of the problems being faced. --- SNIP----Ulha'up is not going to be awake long enough to fully flatten the enemy, merely cause significant casualties and aid to his side.---- SNIP--- So sudden full and total rescue heroism that 'solves' the Black Ark issue was not being offered for a reason. Even a Fate Point doesn't ensure only good things, just a chance of continuation. Of them all, the bond improvement one doesn't 'fix' things either, it merely significantly boosts the bond, aiding both Frederick and Natasha.

I will always appreciate the input and ideas, though!
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The winning choice, walking golems, has not singlehandedly won the war at Karaz-a-Karak.

And what torroar isn't saying in the available choices is in order for Ulha'up's aid to not be as significant as you believe it would be, other than the need for a nap so quickly. The numbers of the skaven in the available option, the number of the norscans attacking in range of Ulha'up, are likely of a significant size on considerable par of the current Whaaagh beseiging Karaz-a-Karak. Or the power they have is on par with that Whaaagh besieging Karaz-a-Karak.

Valmir Aesling has had years to build up his forces, decades.

The greenskins beseiging Karaz-a-Karak have had years of fighting and buildup, more than a decade (13+ years).

The skaven that would be taking advantage of the war of bitter ice, have very likely had years to build up, a decade if not more.

Not that unbelievable.
 
Cheap Orange Knofe said:
Thanks!
torroar simply said it wouldn't solve all problems in the campaign.
(Lack of troops, Slaan falling asleep soon, lack of skink priest/casters)
Not that it wouldn't be a massive improvement in the immediate ter

Look. I get we've had a certain rough history of interactions and that my posts aren't often careful, well thought out , and may come off unintentionally rude at times, I actually hold you in esteem. You're certainly alot more well put together when arguing or voting than I am.
I don't mean to press your buttons.
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Well, I do appreciate you saying that. I'll try and be less snappy.
 
Only have a quick moment, but just on Valmir Aesling - he managed to name himself Emperor of Chaos in canon and didn't end up struck down for the temerity of it. He also was supposedly personally powerful enough to simply shred any of his challengers to the position in Norsca. I would also note, however, that so far, the big losses have been at the hands of other subordinates and personnel. A Sorcerer-Lord who sought to do something got struck down, another casting and summoning and the Exalted Lord of Change that came through was the one that was destroyed. When Valmir takes the field, he usually wins, which is why despite everything the Uxmaegr and Norse Dwarfs have been steadily on the retreat. As befitting a fight against the Norse Dwarfs as a whole - who, unlike canon, have fully rallied to Kraka Drak's because the interference of the Uxmaegr and Ulha'up slowed things down enough that they had the time to do so - it's been a slow grind, but a grind that the Norscans have been winning. In that they are advancing, the enemy is retreating, step by step. Just because there are losses being taken on Valmir's side doesn't mean the enemy isn't also losing people. They've been doing this long enough now that there are Norscans that haven't even raided anywhere else in the world yet, no sailing ventures, they've been raised up to fight the Uxmaegr and the Norse Dwarfs. Born and raised to fight and die in this single campaign. Whereas for the dwarfs and Uxmaegr, it's a lot harder to manage - the former because of how long pregnancies and raising can take, the latter because they were never as large and powerful as any one of the Great Tribes of Norsca, they were a gathered up diaspora that is punching above their weight due to Ulha'up and occasional lizardman reinforcements.

All right I have to go stop some dogs from fighting bye, remember to be kind to one another, I'm glad to see that ya'll are able to cool it off n'all that without me here. Thank you all!
 
I'm hopeing we can make contact with the Uxmaegr. They would make solid allies and in doing so hopefully befriend Ulha'up or at least be allies in his mind. Because let's be honest having a second generation slaan as a friend (Wich is totally something Freddy would do)
Would definitely help us……. But I'm also hoping seeing as we all know how powerful slaan are that we could ask for him to……….help Anna .. with her cold soul problem that last interlude with her daughter. Made me really sad, and even if he can't get rid of of it maybe hav can modify it so that she can turn her coldness on and off you know. I mean he's a Slaan anythings possible
 
cabal2.0 said:
I'm hopeing we can make contact with the Uxmaegr. They would make solid allies and in doing so hopefully befriend Ulha'up or at least be allies in his mind. Because let's be honest having a second generation slaan as a friend (Wich is totally something Freddy would do)
Would definitely help us……. But I'm also hoping seeing as we all know how powerful slaan are that we could ask for him to……….help Anna .. with her cold soul problem that last interlude with her daughter. Made me really sad, and even if he can't get rid of of it maybe hav can modify it so that she can turn her coldness on and off you know. I mean he's a Slaan anythings possible
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Make contact with the uxmaegr? Sure why not, they've been set up as a setting element in our path. Freddy sees dwarf, he helps dwarf that's just what he does. Hell it feels like it's being set up on purpose, for the black ark to land right next to a battle and the Army of Broken Chains to pour out
But you should maybe temper your expectations about ol' hulahoop. It took getting their brain basted with Old One juice for him to like the uxmaegr enough to not incinerate them. Freddy's cool but he's not That cool
 
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DocMatoi said:
Make contact with the uxmaegr? Sure why not, they've been set up as a setting element in our path. Freddy sees dwarf, he helps dwarf that's just what he does. Hell it feels like it's being set up on purpose, for the black ark to land right next to a battle and the Army of Broken Chains to pour out
But you should maybe temper your expectations about ol' hulahoop. It took getting their brain basted with Old One juice for him to like the uxmaegr enough to not incinerate them. Freddy's cool but he's not That cool
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Fair enough but we can only pray to RNGesus to find out t
 
cabal2.0 said:
I'm hopeing we can make contact with the Uxmaegr. They would make solid allies and in doing so hopefully befriend Ulha'up or at least be allies in his mind. Because let's be honest having a second generation slaan as a friend (Wich is totally something Freddy would do)
Would definitely help us……. But I'm also hoping seeing as we all know how powerful slaan are that we could ask for him to……….help Anna .. with her cold soul problem that last interlude with her daughter. Made me really sad, and even if he can't get rid of of it maybe hav can modify it so that she can turn her coldness on and off you know. I mean he's a Slaan anythings possible
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And if nothing else, getting them a skink priest and Saurus reinforcements would win us enough brownie points to achieve a retreat into Kislev.
Hopefully with them in tow.
Civil War is over and the Norscan forces are also drained.
Kislev has the advantage i think.
Depending on how the Skaven war is going.
torroar said:
Only have a quick moment, but just on Valmir Aesling
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Okay. So avoid on the field. Tularis Level or above.
Fight with Freddy.... Except Freddy has been shredded and needs regen+Therapy.
And he's been power leveling by fighting Saurus and Norse Dawi hard points.
That's kinda terrifying.

I don't think I wanna risk Kerilian and Johanna to fight him.

Anyway. Just need to focus on Alyssa now.
Don't want her joining up with the Emperor... :eek2:


I just had the horrifying mental image of Valmir Taking the grounded Black Ark and gaining Alyssa as a new best Caster buddy.
And then relaunching it with the help of the living library+Slaan recruit.
That's just evil. You wouldn't do that to us would you @torroar?
 
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DocMatoi said:
Make contact with the uxmaegr? Sure why not, they've been set up as a setting element in our path. Freddy sees dwarf, he helps dwarf that's just what he does. Hell it feels like it's being set up on purpose, for the black ark to land right next to a battle and the Army of Broken Chains to pour out
But you should maybe temper your expectations about ol' hulahoop. It took getting their brain basted with Old One juice for him to like the uxmaegr enough to not incinerate them. Freddy's cool but he's not That cool
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But consider, of all the people who could probably survive that, it's Freddy. Not only is he incredibly mentally resilient, he's used to having his mind probed, and the unimaginable pain that comes with it, and hes resistent to physical pain and has the Light of Summer to heal the wounds and he's got Natasha to help him carry the mental strain. He may be one of the humans most suited to hearing the message of the Slaan...
 
Annatar said:
But consider, of all the people who could probably survive that, it's Freddy. Not only is he incredibly mentally resilient, he's used to having his mind probed, and the unimaginable pain that comes with it, and hes resistent to physical pain and has the Light of Summer to heal the wounds and he's got Natasha to help him carry the mental strain. He may be one of the humans most suited to hearing the message of the Slaan...
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.... So Alyssa and Hultressa were essentially just prepping him?
 
Admittedly, Valmir hasn't put a huge effort into calling for aid from Greater Daemons for the most part. This has primarily been a mortal driven campaign and fight, with lesser daemon supplements. He's not the Everchosen or whatever just yet, he's only lately started to draw in ambitious warbands from the Chaos Wastes who for one reason or another departed that hallowed forever battleground to try Norsca for a time instead. Not Total War Warhammer, not getting a doom stack of Greater Daemons with just a few turns of recruitment. But yes, he's still getting flamers and whatever. Plus an uptick in curious Tzeentch worshippers who believe that if they can just glean some secrets of the Uxmaegr it would bring them great reward.
 
torroar a quick question about Uxmaegr. An "average" Norscan seem to think southerners as weaklings with weak gods. Putting nuances of this aside(like those Norscans who regulary trade and such), what do Uxmaegr think about southern folks now that they no longer believe chaos gods are cool? I know they didn't have much time to retrospect, having a total war against extinction and whatnot, but what is their impression of other people who's been resisting against chaos for centuries without even aid from Lizardmen/Old Ones?
 
NutMaster said:
torroar a quick question about Uxmaegr. An "average" Norscan seem to think southerners as weaklings with weak gods. Putting nuances of this aside(like those Norscans who regulary trade and such), what do Uxmaegr think about southern folks now that they no longer believe chaos gods are cool? I know they didn't have much time to retrospect, having a total war against extinction and whatnot, but what is their impression of other people who's been resisting against chaos for centuries without even aid from Lizardmen/Old Ones?
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Neutral at best, slight dislike at worst for not following the true calling while still fighting one another IMO. Maybe some of them putting the idea of conversion but at least they can respect them for turning away from the Chaos god while still holding some form of prejudice. Justified and unjustified ones (but that's another story).
 
torroar said:
When Valmir takes the field, he usually wins, which is why despite everything the Uxmaegr and Norse Dwarfs have been steadily on the retreat. As befitting a fight against the Norse Dwarfs as a whole - who, unlike canon, have fully rallied to Kraka Drak's because the interference of the Uxmaegr and Ulha'up slowed things down enough that they had the time to do so - it's been a slow grind, but a grind that the Norscans have been winning.
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Still hope that they can succeed in the end, for obvious reasons, and who knows what might happen if Freddy and company end up in Norsca like its seemingly more and more likely will happen.

Not saying we could be the tipping point in such a long and huge conflict, but we've done crazy stuff before.
 
Restalaan said:
Neutral at best, slight dislike at worst for not following the true calling while still fighting one another IMO. Maybe some of them putting the idea of conversion but at least they can respect them for turning away from the Chaos god while still holding some form of prejudice.
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I think the best answer here is probably going to be oblivious.

Strong norscans look down on southerners and weak norscans alike.

The uxmaegr were by once weak norscans. This is kinda corny but I imagine it being like a patriotic jock in the 80s bullying poindexter. Except bullying in this case meant rape, slavery, sacrifice, starvation. Poindexter may recognize the virtue signaling anti Soviet nationalism of the jock but he's gonna be much more preoccupied with avoiding being brutalized.

I'm sure they've been so singularly focused on their survival fight they've had very little thought of 'what lies beyond Norsca' or 'what comes after the fight'

They do seem to refute the American/Norscan exceptionalism that the pious norscans have, saying Norsca isn't blessed and the dark gods are thieves.
 
With all this new information coming from the north, it sounds like we have a major military expedition on our hands when the current crisis is handled. (Unless our way back to Ostland derails into fixing Norsca on the way.)

A two pronged aid and counter-raid operation by the Trident, with support from the empire, with the objective to blunt the growing Chaos threat before it reaches the shores of Sigmar's Empire and strengthen local resistance.

First prong, lead by Staffan and Nordland, involving raids on costal and near-costal non-Uxmaegr settlements in southern and western Norsca. The main goal is to divert attention away from the ongoing war with the Norse Dawi while weakening the future naval capacity of the enemy.

The second, simultaneous, prong is lead by Frederic, and takes Ostland and Ostermarker forces through Kislev and into eastern Norsca with the goal of making contact with Norse Dawi and Uxmaegr forces, with the aid of Norse Dawi freed by Trident forces during the battle at Salkalten, and establishing a reliable supply corridor, either through an stabilized Kislev, or a port on the northern shores of The Sea of Claws.

This would set the stage for long term support and relief efforts to friendly forces.
 
Niksol said:
With all this new information coming from the north, it sounds like we have a major military expedition on our hands when the current crisis is handled. (Unless our way back to Ostland derails into fixing Norsca on the way.)
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The issue is, while we, the readers, know about it all - Freddy and co does not. They know something weird is happening, but not that there are friendlies up there.

We could probably have scouts sent that way, but we can't do a whole campaign over, in-character, little-to-no information
 
Niksol said:
With all this new information coming from the north, it sounds like we have a major military expedition on our hands when the current crisis is handled. (Unless our way back to Ostland derails into fixing Norsca on the way.)

A two pronged aid and counter-raid operation by the Trident, with support from the empire, with the objective to blunt the growing Chaos threat before it reaches the shores of Sigmar's Empire and strengthen local resistance.

First prong, lead by Staffan and Nordland, involving raids on costal and near-costal non-Uxmaegr settlements in southern and western Norsca. The main goal is to divert attention away from the ongoing war with the Norse Dawi while weakening the future naval capacity of the enemy.

The second, simultaneous, prong is lead by Frederic, and takes Ostland and Ostermarker forces through Kislev and into eastern Norsca with the goal of making contact with Norse Dawi and Uxmaegr forces, with the aid of Norse Dawi freed by Trident forces during the battle at Salkalten, and establishing a reliable supply corridor, either through an stabilized Kislev, or a port on the northern shores of The Sea of Claws.

This would set the stage for long term support and relief efforts to friendly forces.
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Click to shrink...
That is assuming we even have forces to spare after we are done with Beasttide. And given how most other imperial forces are stuck in KaK, Trident troops would have to do a lot of work against Malagor &ko.
 
I'd bet on Kislev being more likely to help if things play out the right way.

With Clan Moulder invading the surface from the Hellpit, Alexandra's army may head in that direction and bring the fight to the Hellpit's door.

The Hellpit is really close to the Norscan Dwarfs Southern border.

Its far from the center of Kislev's core territories, but if you are already up there, its not much more effort to make contact with them. If you know they are there.....
 
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