.... You've summarised the situation fairly concisely.
Once we wrest fredrick and her library from her, she would be vulnerable to therapy no jutsu. Just need to throughly depower her and remove all hope for reacceptance back into Malekith graces. (sure death)
She's not part of the Cult of Khaine, she's self interested and will soon have no power base.
Such a mindset is vulnerable to subversion by whatever she recognises as "powerful".
Which Isha, and the Everqueen count as.
Whatever. Voter base is not interested in her redemption.
Only Hultressa can secure her and make the argument... And I think she's even less interested.
She would not in fact be vulnerable to therapy no jutsu.
She
might be vulnerable to being manipulated or mindfucked or further socially fucked with via words, if she is brought down from power and thus placed in a horrible position in terms of power and thus in terms of mental mindset, yes. But that is
not the same as being vulnerable to therapy no jutsu, being vulnerable to being magically (metaphorically) talked around to the side of good(TM). It just means being vulnerable to further headfuckery -- and not all fuckery or manipulation can be used for the power of good or to turn somebody good.
That is to say; you can break somebody to evil or apathy, but you cannot break somebody to "good". That's not what redemption is or how therapy works or how turning somebody to good works.
However, even if Alyssa was depowered and beaten... she would not be vulnerable in the particular way one would hope. Nor would the social or practical opportunities be available to her -- or available to the people around her (i.e. us) to offer to her. For a very of reasons which boil down to "the situation as it is due to what is happened" and "the revealed mindset and morality of Alyssa, and all the people involved."
This idea that she might seek redemption if she is depowered is incorrect; Alyssa is going to be terrified and humiliated at the loss of power, and she would seek to get it back, to feel safe or in charge again. She might even resort to lying and playing along and faking her change of heart in order to get that -- something I find more likely than Alyssa being fallen from power choosing to actually change.
torroar's post: "To be fair, cruel and monstrous as the Druchii so often are, they are also entirely capable of lying when it suits them. Lying so incredibly well that they can fool the Asur for years, decades, even centuries at times, as they infiltrate their homes and institutions. They regularly make deals and pacts with dark forces and come out the other side more or less intact. Arrogance has led to ruin a great many times for many elves, but there are others who's arrogance manifests at wishing to perform a task so utterly perfectly that they'll do nearly anything to achieve it, including debasing themselves in ways that other Druchii would find too repulsive to ever consider. Treating a potential asset kindly, plying them with rewards aplenty more than just pain, is entirely within their arsenal of tools and one that has not gone covered in dust from lack of use."
What's the more likely scenario if Alyssa loses power and gets given a hand from Hultressa/Freddy/Natasha and for some reason does not have a breakdown and rage rage rage, but instead seems to be taking that hand? That she earnestly seeks redemption, or that she is going to spend the next few centuries plotting her revenge?
Even if she spends centuries
not seeking power and connections, but instead lives an ascetic life of sacrifice and service... I still wouldn't trust her. Because I could plausibly buy her realizing that she needs to temporarily sacrifice any power or influence accumulation in order to sell her "change of heart" for centuries.
Hultressa's not-power-seeking was believable as a signpost of her mindset or character or future priorities/goals, because Hultressa was in a society of lots of wealth and power and lots of people seeking to acquire wealth and power. Therefore, her abstaining from The Great Game and generally checking out from Druchii society was a sacrifice of potential power gaining and a genuine sign of things. Alyssa doing the same under circumstances of, I dunno, "being forced to live in a hippie commune or an ascetic mountain monk" would not be a sign of trust, character, or changes. Nobody would trust her to not be doing this for centuries, all for her own skin. Nobody would also particularly want to go to the trouble of figuring out
how to change her or test her, either; that stuff is hard to figure out! You can't just go "Well we handed this person off to Virtuous NPC X, I'm sure the guy has a great Redemption Program he can come up with", the people involved have to somehow figure out how to test and change a person, there's no default road or one-size-fits-all ploy or thing they can do!
"But wouldn't it be nice if it happened anyway? Wouldn't it be nice to believe in redemption being possible?" Eh. I don't particularly want redemption for her, I wouldn't believe it or trust it, I wouldn't blame the people involved to not believe it, and I wouldn't blame the people involved if they believed it but killed her anyway for her crimes and their hatred of her. Well. I'd blame them for believing her; I'd think they'd be stupid or out of character.
"You can't say that somebody doesn't deserve redemption, or that somebody's redemption attempt is not genuine!" To the first part: eh. To the second part: I can and I will. In fact, the genuineness of a person's actions and internal thoughts and internal character changes or lack thereof, is a huge component of things. Also a huge part of verisimilitude too. "I'm seeking redemption!" does not balance out or overpower "I/we don't fucking believe you." Justice is a factor too. Redemption is not necessarily a magic button you can press to say "Okay, we're friends or allies now, or we don't have to punish you for your crimes", too. You can't just look at all the villains in a story and go "I wish they all found redemption" or "Hey, if they tried to redeem themselves, you've got to believe them, right?" People -- in-universe and out of universe -- aren't gonna be buying it. They also might get pissed too. Because it would start feeling like it's less about redemption, and more... not killing anyone. At which point you just start to believe that the people involved simply believe that nobody deserves to die for anything and isn't seeking redemption per se but just lack of deaths.
That's the thing, daemon summoning chaos cultist isn't her main powerset.
Drucii sorceresses with an expanded skill set is.
At her core she is a narcissist psycopath, not a follower or a worshiper.
She is irredeemable but as an arrogant power tripper who thinks she's hot shit.
She also happens to have the correct skill set necessary to keep herself safe from the full chaos fuckery that corrupts souls.
I have no doubt that she's going to be killed one way or another. I'm just pointing out that she's vulnerable to being talked down.
.... If we can convince her she's got an out.
And if anyone can do this, it's up to the ice witch's coldblooded vengeance saying all the right words, making all the right noises.
I disagree both on that being very likely...
And I disagree on that being "redemption".
What you have described is not "an opportunity, or a possible recipe for, redemption." What you have described is "a possible chance to save her skin or to abandon the Black Ark if she gets brought down to zero."
You have
mixed that with the idea of "redemption".
But redemption is not survival. And survival is not redemption. Nor is teaming up or turning coat the same as redemption.
Redemption is also not the same as abandoning the Druchii cause or the Black Ark.
Lots of people may or may not flee a sinking ship, or might stop working for an evil boss or whatever,
without finding redemption whatsoever.
Redemption for Alyssa would probably look a lot like the Darth Vader type of redemption.
NOT like Hultressa's own journey of abandoning the Black Ark, and seeking to go to Ulthuan. (Arguable if Hultressa even feels like she is seeking redemption; she's made it clear she just wants out and only cares for her daughter. That's admirable. But also not really a sign of one's belief in one's own redemption. Mostly just a sign of fatalism.)
I think redemption for Alyssa, if it happens, would have to come in the following form;
for Alyssa to still have power and opportunities of some sort, still have choices, still have the ability to cling to power in a Druchii society or to join a Slaanesh warband or to run off to Norsca or something --
and to instead choose to save or protect or aid Hultressa instead.
THAT is what a chance for redemption for a person of Alyssa's character/personality, and position and deeds, would
probably look like.
And it'd probably result in death -- or should result in death -- because for somebody of her revealed character of caring only about herself and not others and seeking only power, and of her situation of being in charge of a Black Ark and a schemer... redemption would require a sign of internal change of priorities and values, shown by extreme action and consequences in the world. And for somebody who can lie or scheme or wait very well? If they
didn't die in their face-heel-turn, and instead just successfully survived... then you would have to wonder --
was that
really a face-heel-turn, or was that just them running the odds through their mind and deciding "I can survive if I do this -- yes, even if it involves throwing myself unto the mercy of my enemies. I think I have a shot."?
I think a moment or scene or redemption for Alyssa is narratively possible to happen or to be written -- I just think such a scene would have nothing to do with Alyssa surviving or leaving the Druchii.
Because a plausible or believable redemption for Alyssa's character and position, would probably require or involve her choosing to care for Hultressa and Gwendolyn over herself or her ambitions and hopes, or her survival. I think it'd require Alyssa deciding to die closing a portal or something, in order to let the party escape.
Redemption is complicated and tricky. While it can generally be boiled down to "changing your ways and realizing you were wrong, and making amends for the things you did and seeking forgiveness", things of both internal and external changes... you also have to gauge that against a person's history or the practical situation.
As well as the people around them. It's entirely possible for redemption to be true, but for nobody to believe them. Or to kill them for their crimes anyway -- and that would be a valid thing to happen, actually. "You've found redemption, yes. That is good for your soul. But your
crimes are heavy enough that you must pay with your life." Redemption does not necessarily get you out of punishment. It also does not necessarily mean angry people care about your redemption and decide to not take their anger and hatred out on you.
Would I want to see a scene where Alyssa has a chance to sacrifice Gwendolyn and Hultressa to Slaanesh, but instead hesitates at the last and decides to spite the Keeper of Secrets and save her sister and niece? Maybe, I dunno. That'd be heartwarming and tragic to see and could make cool reading. That's probably about the only way redemption would come Alyssa's way though. And it's just as likely to result in her not dying, but instead being taken by the Slaaneshi, and then showing back up years or decades or centuries later or something. Or dying and being stuck as a damned soul rather than dying and being free.
Frankly if we're talking redemption and saving souls, I'd rather focus on Hultressa, Gwendolyn, and Eldyra.
Gwen and Eldyra not because they've done anything, but rather just a general "I am worried about these girls' souls and psyches" way. I worry about Gwen struggling with Khaine. And I worry about Eldyra being turned cynical or doubtful or... something, as a result of the torture and potentially having hopes dashed. If one comes to believe that there is no security or justice in life, then one might seek more power out of fear. I doubt that'll happen to Eldyra. Instead she's more likely to really hate Druchii instead. Perhaps being more of a Tethlis character? (That one Phoenix King that people thought was going to draw the Widowmaker, and who got killed by either a Druchii assassin or his own guards.) That'd still be a form of worrying for her soul, if she lets vengeance and anger and hatred fester in her.
And Hultressa has been a character we've grown closer to or fond of, and thus feel connected to and care about. So I wish her well too.
