Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

[lizatessu]

The option to do nothing was crossed out, but we did vote to prioritize speed over force, to split our forces between the Arks, to lead attack the larger of the two Arks, to lead the fliers on their own rather than stick with the main force, and then to koolaid man into the Ark with only the other fliers for backup. At every point we chose to up the risks and gamble for bigger payoff.

Click to shrink...

That was not why that was crossed out, and I damn well remember why the reason for it was given. It was that because, ever since we have had freddy, we have always gone headfirst on the first chance we have had to attack the enemy with Brain Wounder. As such, Freddy would never within his one ability, ever allow the enemy to run away unscathed, and instead would keep on attacking until he judged it too dangerous to keep on going. We had no choice nor ability at any point of that battle to disengage and retreat, nor to stop fighting after a certain point in the battle. The option, as Altom is clearly talking about, was never given nor allowed. If that had ever been on hand to do, I doubt it would have been victorious, but it would have still been a nice thing to know that we had a choice in the matter. That wasn't the case, and because of that, we have now been stuck on a Ship Vietnam for almost 2 IRL years now.

And, I distinctly remember that the crossed-out idea of running away was now back online for any future ideas of running away, because Freddy almost dying on a gigantic tower to over a dozen Dark Elves scared him back into realizing that what he did was beyond suicidal and dumb. Pity we didn't have that ever-become relevant again in the future, but that's not relevant to the crux of the argument here.

 

[Blackout]

That was not why that was crossed out, and I damn well remmeber why the reason for it was given. It was that because, ever since we have had freddy, we have always went head first on the first chance we have had to attack the enemy with Brain Wounder. As such, Freddy would never within his one ability, ever allow the enemy to run away unscathed, and instead would keep on attacking until he judged it too dangerous tokeep on going. We had no choice nor ability at any point of that battle to disengage and retreat, nor to stop fightning after a certain point in the battle. The option, as Altom is clearly talking about, was never given nor allowed. If that had ever been on hand to do, I doubt it would have been victorius, but it would have still been a nice thing to know that we had a choice in the matter. That wasn't the case, and because of that, we have now been stuck on a Ship Vietnam for almost 2 IRL years now.

Click to shrink...

I didn't say a single thing about why it was crossed out, I said we had the option of going slower and taking less risks, at the expense of a higher chance that Tullaris and the Druchii made it out of Salkalten. We caught Tullaris but because we went off on our own with very little backup we got captured.

If we had chosen the safe option and stuck with the main force, or not split our forces, or chosen to bring the slower forces as well, we would have had more backup and could have potentially avoided getting captured. But we didn't, we chose to prioritize catching Tullaris over Freddy's safety.

 

[torroar]

Firstly, yes.

I understand that there are some rather extreme frustrations here. It never feels great to not win. Regardless of the circumstance, the reasoning behind it, a sting is still a sting.

The rolls continuing as they did, as they were, was because escape was still entirely possible. It remained entirely possible to fully cut through the way out of the Temple before anything else occured. The first roll being low tarpitted the second roll, which had to be exceedingly high to get out halfway again. If both had been moderately high, it would have been out of the gates entirely. After the emergency evacuation spell, the rolls were low again, but if had been moderately high consistently, would have gone to ground before the party could be found. They weren't. That happens. It was entirely possible for everyone to fight and win at the top of the Tor and then straight up just fly away afterwards, but that just wasn't what happened. Multiple chances and multiple failures can suck. Interpretations of loss, of conditions over escape or not, I have a feeling this will not satisfy everyone. The possibility of death and loss of characters has been mentioned repeatedly over the years, but that doesn't make it less upsetting when it rears its head quite squarely. The nature of the dice system that the quest system is not perfect, and I'm sure to some, not even close to optimal.

I've accepted that, much as it sucks to see and hear, because I don't disagree with people's feelings, even if our conclusions might be different.

Now then. Moving forward, to pre-empt certain things here, perhaps it will provide a balm, perhaps not. Natasha as an Ice Witch/Priestess of the Widow is specifically capable of numbing her emotions, and mental strain, through her magic. Meaning that she will be moving forward with a very strong resistance to being crippled through what is being shared through the bond, while at the same time, providing that same fortification to Frederick, something that thus far not even Hultressa and likely not Alyssa will be able to realize the reasoning for. Meaning that their love, their marriage, their bond, and Natasha's own capabilities, are providing boons to both.

The Ark is in considerable chaos, even if it's moving again, and that is no small thing. Alyssa is wounded, and plainly failed to stop the others from escaping thanks to her fracturing sanity and the resistance of other Druchii on the Ark, mixed with arrogance and thinking that she could handle everyone on her lonesome and sent two sorceresses away with Frederick in chains - associating him most strongly with her sister more than any other target, and thinking she'd get the Handmaiden back easily - that plainly did not occur, going from Natasha's POV. Things are bad for a lot of people on the Ark at the moment, to the point that even the Coven who support Alyssa are feeling uncertain and upset as to how things are going. Not even mentioning the food situation, the access to said food, and damage to the Ark sustained already through other parties and measures. The Supreme Sorceress is off her rocker enough that instead of going back out onto the Ark and trying to stabilize things personally as much as possible, she's focusing on punishing the nearest available target to her sister that she can get to.

I understand that not everyone is happy with the update, I knew that would likely be coming, so I've had to make my peace with that. If it's too much for some people, if you feel the way that it has been written, the lack of victory/success here, is too much, unreasonable, I can't say that I agree but that I certainly understand the sentiment and emotional response, whatever it may be. I appreciate your time and participation regardless up to this point, and wish you nothing but the best going forward, if you chose to leave now and never return. Or leave and only return much later, to survey the results. Those who stay, your trust or I suppose vague bemused interest is something I'll treasure.

But I intend to keep writing, and trying to keep going forward here. I can't promise ultra speed, that's just the nature of real life impacting writing, taking care of others, illnesses, and the like, but I can promise a dedication to this quest no matter what.

So I will look forward to writing the next update after enough votes come in, and hope to keep writing this quest after, and after, and even after Frederick does die, however or whenever it happens.

 

[lizatessu]

I didn't say a single thing about why it was crossed out, I said we had the option of going slower and taking less risks, at the expense of a higher chance that Tullaris and the Druchii made it out of Salkalten. We caught Tullaris but because we went off on our own with very little backup we got captured.

If we had chosen the safe option and stuck with the main force, we could have retreated off the Ark when it started moving like the main force did. But we didn't, we chose to prioritize catching Tullaris over Freddy's safety.

Click to shrink...

Yes, but was their an option after Tullaris fled, to just go and attack them all the way to the Ark but no further then that? Was their at any point on the entire flight/running skirmish between Freddy, Natasha, Oskina and Voidreaper to just go in to the Black Ark, or was that taken away and instead replaced with a bunch of dice rolling that forced us to not only never catch her, but instead get dragged into the Ark for a hail mary last stand against an Entire Coven of Witches, Tullaris Dreadbringer and an entire Black Dragon plus extra? No, that was taken out of our hands without so much as a vote, because their was no point nor attempt at halting the narrative, and instead it was just more dice rolling. And then, when that dice rolling panned out and went up and out for us, their was no recourse besides that it happened outside of our control by the will of the Dice gods. That is why Altom is harping about sitting on a black Ark doing nothing but hiding and fearing for our lives for almost 2 years now, only to be rewarding with heartache and the sharp tang of "RESET!" from him and from other people mentioned before hand on this quest. Their was no reason besides events outside of our control besides Dice, no recourse to get out of this besides Dice, and no one else that ruins that and brings us all the way back to step 1 when that fails, but the Dice!

And, I already talked about that with the crossed out option and how we always went head first into battle against the enemy?

Snip

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Alright, understood. More votes should come in within the next 10 hours I think, and I should finally sleep now and go and cast my votes in that case before the day grows any longer then. Cheers Tor, and have a good day off from writing after everyinthg thats happened. I think we all need a break from this in order to calm down and find some remotivation again after this setback.

 

[Altom]

The option to do nothing was crossed out, but we did vote to prioritize speed over force, to split our forces between the Arks, to lead the fliers on their own rather than stick with the main force, and then to koolaid man into the Ark with only the other fliers for backup, at which point we got surrounded and captured. At every point we chose to up the risks and gamble for bigger payoff.

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And why were we so reckless? Eldyra. We wanted to avenge/save her. And why was she in need of saving/ avenging? Because she tried to intercept the Druchii fleet. Something, if memory holds, we never asked her to do.

We could have, you know, played a PC that commands from the backline rather then fighting at the front against an enemy with a reputation of kidnapping people into their slave ships, if we didn't want to risk being kidnapped into their slave ships?

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Are you seriouly suggesting we ditch literal IRL years of characterisation, a result of hundreds if not thousands of choices by hundreds if not thousands of individuals just because dice might screw us? Seriously? What is even the argument here?

 

[Byzantine]

IF we get out with everyone we will probably have brownie points with Everqueen. This time probably good idea to use them.

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I very much doubt we would even need to call in a favor to have chaotic poisoned injected into us while saving her subjects burned from us. In fact I rather believe she'd have to be magically restrained to prevent her from doing so.

This particular arc sucks because we got forced into this, and then the dice just decided to roll with "lol, no" twice now.

Anyway, frankly the black arc doesn't have the manpower to actually stop our group from just... leaving if our group manages to break the coven at this point. (and Hultressa hasn't fled the arc yet. She still needs a bargaining chip. She's putting her daughter somewhere safe then waiting for a chance to murk her sister and the rest of the coven that get in her way.)

 

[lizatessu]

[X] A, B, C

[X] Focus on purely attacking Alyssan loyalists and daemons

 

[Imperious]

Are you seriouly suggesting we ditch literal IRL years of characterisation, a result of hundreds if not thousands of choices by hundreds if not thousands of individuals just because dice might screw us? Seriously? What is even the argument here?

Click to shrink...

The argument is that a PC that runs the risk of fighting in places where death or captivity is a real possibility may indeed end up getting killed or captured in battle at some point? That the PC has been taking these sort of risks repeatedly and for IRL years seems like it'd rather strengthen my point. With the PC taking those risks so many times at some point it was bound to happen that one of those cases might roll snake eyes.

 

[thefoolswriter]

I like the fact we can lose it make victory feel real

 

[Genon]

Firstly, yes.

I understand that there are some rather extreme frustrations here. It never feels great to not win. Regardless of the circumstance, the reasoning behind it, a sting is still a sting.

The rolls continuing as they did, as they were, was because escape was still entirely possible. It remained entirely possible to fully cut through the way out of the Temple before anything else occured. The first roll being low tarpitted the second roll, which had to be exceedingly high to get out halfway again. If both had been moderately high, it would have been out of the gates entirely. After the emergency evacuation spell, the rolls were low again, but if had been moderately high consistently, would have gone to ground before the party could be found. They weren't. That happens. It was entirely possible for everyone to fight and win at the top of the Tor and then straight up just fly away afterwards, but that just wasn't what happened. Multiple chances and multiple failures can suck. Interpretations of loss, of conditions over escape or not, I have a feeling this will not satisfy everyone. The possibility of death and loss of characters has been mentioned repeatedly over the years, but that doesn't make it less upsetting when it rears its head quite squarely. The nature of the dice system that the quest system is not perfect, and I'm sure to some, not even close to optimal.

I've accepted that, much as it sucks to see and hear, because I don't disagree with people's feelings, even if our conclusions might be different.

Now then. Moving forward, to pre-empt certain things here, perhaps it will provide a balm, perhaps not. Natasha as an Ice Witch/Priestess of the Widow is specifically capable of numbing her emotions, and mental strain, through her magic. Meaning that she will be moving forward with a very strong resistance to being crippled through what is being shared through the bond, while at the same time, providing that same fortification to Frederick, something that thus far not even Hultressa and likely not Alyssa will be able to realize the reasoning for. Meaning that their love, their marriage, their bond, and Natasha's own capabilities, are providing boons to both.

The Ark is in considerable chaos, even if it's moving again, and that is no small thing. Alyssa is wounded, and plainly failed to stop the others from escaping thanks to her fracturing sanity and the resistance of other Druchii on the Ark, mixed with arrogance and thinking that she could handle everyone on her lonesome and sent two sorceresses away with Frederick in chains - associating him most strongly with her sister more than any other target, and thinking she'd get the Handmaiden back easily - that plainly did not occur, going from Natasha's POV. Things are bad for a lot of people on the Ark at the moment, to the point that even the Coven who support Alyssa are feeling uncertain and upset as to how things are going. Not even mentioning the food situation, the access to said food, and damage to the Ark sustained already through other parties and measures. The Supreme Sorceress is off her rocker enough that instead of going back out onto the Ark and trying to stabilize things personally as much as possible, she's focusing on punishing the nearest available target to her sister that she can get to.

I understand that not everyone is happy with the update, I knew that would likely be coming, so I've had to make my peace with that. If it's too much for some people, if you feel the way that it has been written, the lack of victory/success here, is too much, unreasonable, I can't say that I agree but that I certainly understand the sentiment and emotional response, whatever it may be. I appreciate your time and participation regardless up to this point, and wish you nothing but the best going forward, if you chose to leave now and never return. Or leave and only return much later, to survey the results. Those who stay, your trust or I suppose vague bemused interest is something I'll treasure.

But I intend to keep writing, and trying to keep going forward here. I can't promise ultra speed, that's just the nature of real life impacting writing, taking care of others, illnesses, and the like, but I can promise a dedication to this quest no matter what.

So I will look forward to writing the next update after enough votes come in, and hope to keep writing this quest after, and after, and even after Frederick does die, however or whenever it happens.

Click to shrink...

Two questions:
A) The Runefang is still on the Ark though, right? If it's permanently lost or destroyed, doesn't that mean the dissolution of Ostland as a province? In other words, game over and the end of the quest?
B) I had some questions/thoughts on a rescue effort here. What's your opinion?

@torroar
You know, can't we send some kind of magical signal to Tyrion and Co? Especially with Sadrina? The others are right that Tyrion and Malekith alike will hunt Alyssa's ass down as soon as they find out, and Deus Ex Elf Ship would make this a whole lot faster to resolve.

EDIT: Also, can we send one to Barak Varr's fleet, and the elves at Ostland, if that fails? To save Frederick, the Dwarves would send everything, and the opportunity to kill Chaos *and* Druuchi might be worth working with a few less annoying elgi.

EDIT 2: Also, would all of the magical and demonic bullshit going on, on a freaking Black Ark, be potentially easier to track? Tyrion would absolutely drop everything to rescue Eldyra, and Teclis would want to rescue Sadrina. Is there any possibility of an Asur rescue effort? Because it's clear that our escape plan isn't likely to work with things as they are, and frankly, after this, I shudder to imagine what getting through Norsca and Kislev by land would be like.

EDIT 3: What about Kessel and his fleet of Druuchi ships? If news can get out of the anarchy we caused, he could certainly help. It's been a hot minute since the battle of Salkalten, how are our friends doing on that front?

EDIT 4: There's also the Death Twins. The sheer amount of Shyish on this Ark, due to the mass slaughter, might even get their attention from all the way over there. Aren't they in Kislev? Can they link up with Alex? Is Kislev likely to be able to send a relief fleet given that their war is on land?

EDIT 5: How does magical tracking even work in Warhammer anyway? Does this Ark and all of its energies show up like a magical GPS transponder? Malekith is likely very wary of his own subordinates trying something, he would want to know where all of his Arks are at all times considering that they're floating cities unto themselves. So is he (or anyone else) capable of such a thing?

Click to shrink...

 

[Byzantine]

Anyway,

[X] Focus on purely attacking Alyssan loyalists and daemons

She's completely lost the plot already, and given the daemons is pretty much incapable of getting it back any time soon. If we can whittle away enough of the coven I expect there's going to be a Hultressa interrupt where she tries to murk her sister, this time with Preparation.

 

[Altom]

The argument is that a PC that runs the risk of fighting in places where death or captivity is a reall possibility may indeed end up getting killed or captured in battle at some point? That the PC has been taking these sort of risks repeatedly and for IRL years seems like it'd rather strengthen my point. With the PC taking those risks so many times at some point it was bound to happen that one of those cases might roll snake eyes.

Click to shrink...

And I would be fine with him dieing. What I am not fine is his death coming as a consequence of no choice of ours and with much much worse consequences then just the death.

 

[iggyfan]

[X] Focus on purely attacking Alyssan loyalists and daemons

 

[thefoolswriter]

[X] Focus on purely attacking Alyssan loyalists and daemons

 

[Imperious]

Two questions:
A) The Runefang is still on the Ark though, right? If it's permanently lost or destroyed, doesn't that mean the dissolution of Ostland as a province? In other words, game over and the end of the quest?

Click to shrink...

Why would it result in Ostland's dissolution? There have been runefang less Imperial provinces such as Westerland and Sylvannia in the past and present. Furthermore who is going to force Ostland to disband and why?

The Runefang is a powerful weapon and our symbol of office. Losing it is bad, but it seems more likely to be akin to the loss of the phoenix crown then the end of Ostland, as none of the fundamentals that make it a province go away with it.

 

[Blackout]

Yes, but was their an option after Tullaris fled, to just go and attack them all the way to the Ark but no further then that? Was their at any point on the entire flight/running skirmish between Freddy, Natasha, Oskina and Voidreaper to just go in to the Black Ark, or was that taken away and instead replaced with a bunch of dice rolling that forced us to not only never catch her, but instead get dragged into the Ark for a hail mary last stand against an Entire Coven of Witches, Tullaris Dreadbringer and an entire Black Dragon plus extra? No, that was taken out of our hands without so much as a vote, because their was no point nor attempt at halting the narrative, and instead it was just more dice rolling. And then, when that dice rolling panned out and went up and out for us, their was no recourse besides that it happened outside of our control by the will of the Dice gods. That is why Altom is harping about sitting on a black Ark doing nothing but hiding and fearing for our lives for almost 2 years now, only to be rewarding with heartache and the sharp tang of "RESET!" from him and from other people mentioned before hand on this quest. Their was no reason besides events outside of our control besides Dice, no recourse to get out of this besides Dice, and no one else that ruins that and brings us all the way back to step 1 when that fails, but the Dice!

And, I already talked about that with the crossed out option and how we always went head first into battle against the enemy?

Click to shrink...

No, we didn't get the option to do nothing, I already said that. And that is how it should be, if an option is something Freddy would never do it should not be offered.

And while Freddy does always go head first into battle, he doesn't always have to go in so recklessly as we did. As evidenced by the options to take it slow not being crossed out.

And why were we so reckless? Eldyra. We wanted to avenge/save her. And why was she in need of saving/ avenging? Because she tried to intercept the Druchii fleet. Something, if memory holds, we never asked her to do.

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Yes, we don't get to vote on what NPCs outside of the Dynasty do, that's just part of this being a Quest.

 

[torroar]

A) The Runefang is still on the Ark though, right? If it's permanently lost or destroyed, doesn't that mean the dissolution of Ostland as a province? In other words, game over and the end of the quest?

Click to shrink...

It's still on the Ark. In fact, its very close by. It's a masterwork of Alaric the Mad, it's not so easily destroyed, and clearly there's a close relationship between it and the prisoner, which means that breaking it to break him would be very good for psychological damage. The other gear was similarly pushed to the side for later somethings, whatever it is that Alyssa comes up with for it. The other sorceresses are quite busy at the moment trying to do what Alyssa should be doing, and Alyssa isn't doing, so at the moment, it's not really a bother to tell you that everything's currently intact.

As to your other questions, a lot of enchantment work has gone into keeping Arks from easily being tracked, save perhaps by Malekith and his court and others like that. So just sending up a flare isn't likely to work. Sadrina has a connection to the Everqueen, but if the connection between Handmaiden and Everqueen were so potent, they wouldn't need to send back written reports and the like back to Avelorn. News is going to be difficult to get out all the way to Nordland, and Stephan and his province are having a bit of an issue with their own dockyards being damaged and the beastmen in the province. Shyish plumes from death on the Ark are just like you'd see on a regular battlefield. There are many battlefields in Kislev at this moment, as well as the Empire, which are closer. Also Norsca, which is between the Twins and the Ark at the moment. The Barak Varr fleet is notably not sea-worthy, they broke themselves rushing to Salkalaten and now are semi-permanently docked in place until significant and lengthy repairs are made.

 

[Genon]

Why would it result in Ostland's dissolution? There have been runefang less Imperial provinces such as Westerland and Sylvannia in the past and present. Furthermore who is going to force Ostland to disaband and why?

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I thought Sylvania was part of Stirland nowadays, sort of? The Vampire Counts can't exactly claim the Countship legally.

That said, I didn't know that Westerland lost theirs. I remember the earlier Magnus updates claiming that there was talk of dissolving Ostland, or absorbing it into another province, due to the lost Runefang, but I don't remember exactly where. I assume that our family still has enough prestige to keep it through sheer reputation, but it's still a significant concern I believe.

 

[torroar]

The two most significant examples of provinces getting dissolved would be for Solland and Drakwald. Solland outright lost their Runefang for a time before it was finally returned, but it wasn't the loss of the Runefang itself but rather the sheer devastation caused by Gorbad Ironclaw and him taking the Runefang away for a while which caused Solland to basically dissolve and be absorbed by Wissenland. Drakwald, on the other hand, never had any great singular ultra devastation, and literally just sorta sucked ass for so long, so many generations, that in the end, even while having their Runefang, everyone generally went 'oh, no, no this place is too awful to exist as a province, break it up' and it was absorbed by Middenland and Nordland.

Notably, both the Solland and Drakwald Runefangs are still around, it's just that their provinces sucked so much for so long - or so significantly in a short period - that they dissolved.

 

[lusians]

[X] Focus on purely attacking Alyssan loyalists and daemons

 

[Imperious]

I thought Sylvania was part of Stirland nowadays, sort of? The Vampire Counts can't exactly claim the Countship legally.

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Sylvannia was a province in its own right under the Von Draks. It was only annexed by Stirland after the Von Carsteins repeatedly tried to conquer the Empire from it and were defeated by the armies of Stirland, who proceeded to nominally annex it via right of conquest. We don't have another count who has defeated our armies and occupied our lands after we had just pissed off the rest of the Empire in order for us to be in the same situation.

Losing the Runefang is a bad prestige hit to be sure, but it alone seems unlikely to lead to the end of Ostland.

 

[NutMaster]

It is another for this place, with

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@torroar I don't want to sound like I'm nagging you but can you please check this part when you have time. It seems it was cut.

 

[Genon]

Snip

Click to shrink...

...You know what? Can we just make a write-in vote to sabotage the Ark's cloaking mechanisms? Or its magical...everything, really? If we can't even get off the Ark without one of us being tortured, as a long-time reader, I can say that a Deus Ex Tyrion would save us both a lot of headaches. The odds of getting through Norsca by land are roughly suicidal or worse, and with the Ark vulnerable and in anarchy, an outside assault would be our best bet.

 

[Blackout]

Depending on how Torroar interprets varying pieces of lore, the provinces of Sylvania, Westerland (or Nordland, but in DoDA it's clearly Nordland that is the original province), Westmark (Parts of modern day Bretonnia) and Lichtenberg (Border Princes) all existed without a Runefang.

 

[torroar]

@torroar I don't want to sound like I'm nagging you but can you please check this part when you have time. It seems it was cut.

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It's absolutely no trouble at all, I apologize for not getting to it sooner. I simply felt compelled to respond to others first given the heightened emotions of other posts around yours. Fixed now, thank you.

...You know what? Can we just make a write-in vote to sabotage the Ark's cloaking mechanisms? Or its magical...everything, really? If we can't even get off the Ark without one of us being tortured, as a long-time reader, I can say that a Deus Ex Tyrion would save us both a lot of headaches. The odds of getting through Norsca by land are roughly suicidal or worse, and with the Ark vulnerable and in anarchy, an outside assault would be our best bet.

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Natasha wouldn't even know where to begin with that, unfortunately.

However.

There is another who does.

And another who has already acted partially upon that, through the destruction of one of the major Dhar Anchorstone complexes on the Ark, which has lowered the Ark's overall speed, potency, and structural integrity.