Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

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Dwarven birthrates have exploded as well. It was mentioned in the conversation between Throrgrim and the priestess of Valaya, that the number of dwarven births since the reconquest of Karak Ungor equals the total number of births of the last 500 years.

Combine that with the fact that the life expectancy of Dwarfs has gone down to the point where dwarfs of 300-400 years of age can be considered old and we can estimate that their population might actually more than double during the next century.

It might be that their low birthrate were, at least to a degree, psychological in nature. The Dwarfs might make a serious comeback, if they can keep up these numbers and prevent any serious losses for the next 150 years.

I think they recently lost 3000-5000 Dwarfs in the Vaults to the Skaven.
 
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Czes said:
It might be that their low birthrate were, at least to a degree, psychological in nature. The Dwarfs might make a serious comeback, if they can keep up these numbers and prevent any serious losses for the next 150 years.
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Settled grudges are dawi viagra. You heard it here, folks.

Reclaim a hold and, bam, every male dwarf is suddenly toting around a third arm for an age and a day.

There may also be a secret ingredient in Bugman's Best.
 
BelligerentGnu said:
I would love so much to see a quest that does this and makes it feel earned.
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It'd pretty much have to be a lizard quest, or dwarves/elves before the war of the beard so that they can still collaborate on waystones, and with the latter you'd pretty much have to do 5 year turns or so to have any chance of it happening anytime soon.

If even SLANN have to sacrifice their lives just to shrink the gates, then doing that with waystones would probably take a solid wall of them around the rift to sloooowly pinch it shut over the course of centuries.
 
torroar said:
The problem is that it has been decades since the province has been reminded just who Stephan the Unbroken is, and as such, after years of Mena letting her husband, her father, and her siblings deal with matters at court, Mena's position at court is intensely unstable and unwell.
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*Cue the future Beastman Invasion*

Malagor and His Homies: Allow us to introduce ourselves :V
 
Czes said:
It might be that their low birthrate were, at least to a degree, psychological in nature.
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It is not minorly, it is majorly psychological. The sheer weight of the accumulated Grudges, continual losses, ever shrinking, etc. The prevailing opinion of the majority of dawi, prior to Karak Ungor, was the same as it was in canon 2522 era i.e. 'We are all going to die, there is nothing that will change that, we will just stubbornly be ground down until there is nothing remaining'. The issue is that, to the average dwarf, such a fate is grim but acceptable, because there quite simply is no foreseeable alternative. It is, in the end, an elaborate and lengthy racial suicide. The ancient glories will never be recaptured, the future holds only eventual death, and it is better to die trying to wipe out the impossibly long list of Grudges than anything else. I would point to the Grudge Striking Ceremony in the epilogue of Karak Ungor as an example of what I'm talking about. Grudges are a hell of a thing. For all that dwarfs are generally meant to be more 'grounded', literally resistant to magic and whatever, plenty about them is supernatural. The Runesmithing/Runepriests, the sheer breadth of their mechanical abilities when they are willing to do it, the sheer precision and perfection of their craftwork, etc. Literal inhuman concentration and strength/skill/durability/etc. The White Dwarf was so offended by a certain oath-breaking that he literally stubborned himself into becoming a racial and deific avatar. Dwarfs can stubborn themselves past where starvation and dehydration should have killed them. Because Grudges, and Oaths, are so engraved into their metaphysical makeup. The sheer level of Grudges that have accumulated, ever more written into the Dammaz Kron than struck out, is incredibly deleterious to their race, because it reached a point a while ago of 'there is no way we can ever actually strike all of these out' coupling with 'we have to write in a new grudge always' and a general level of cultural inertia tipping into a remarkably stubborn and slow yet supposedly inevitable avalanche right towards extinction.

One of the quotes I've found regarding the dwarfs dates back to the War of Vengeance, even, from the Master of Dragons book:

"They fight well, the Elgi. They fight better than any warriors I have ever seen. But do they suffer well? No one suffers like the Dawi. We will make this the battleground - they will be broken on the anvil of our suffering."

There's another quote out there, one I frustratingly cannot find anymore, and it is of the perspective either of greenskins or skaven, one of the two. I'm paraphrasing from memory here, of course. They remark that the Dwarfs themselves are not weak, they simply assume they are. That they are doomed. That they are not quite fallen, but certainly falling. But that the great secret is, in fact, that the dwarfs are still strong. And mighty. And if they ever, ever remembered just how strong they could be, then there would be severe issues for their enemies. You can contrast this to one part of 8E which fits, in that after the insult of Tyrion to the dwarfs when the Asur and Dawi both fought against Mannfred to rescue the kidnapped daughter of the Everqueen, the longbeards clamored, demanded that Thorgrim write in a big fat new Grudge into the Dammaz Kron. Because that was how it was going to be. This momentary alliance and improvement in relations better than in centuries which has been slightly scuffed by a distressed and frustrated elf means that we should write a new Grudge and go to war and vengeance and surely lose many dawi because That's How We Are Going To Do Until We End. With, of course, the implied End being inevitable. The Age of Reclamation got a few holds back, but Karak Varn is still a pit, and K8P is lost, with only 500 dawi sitting in the citadel as the vast majority is held by greenskins and skaven. Norn will bloody itself senseless against Athel Loren. And we'll grit our teeth and bear it until we're gone. Right?

Thorgrim says no. This is shocking behavior, and while if it was just a Beardling it'd be one thing, it's the High King himself.

So, circling around to the original bit, as long as The End was inevitable, then what is the point of bringing new lives into the world? Sure, duty between nobles might keep things going, you're expected to birth at least a new heir and a spare when you marry. That's How Things Are Done. Perhaps love between two dwarfs might ensure a few more sprogs here and there. But inevitably, there will eventually be no more beardlings, and only bitter and grim longbeards who will spit in the eye of their foes as they, inevitably, fall and the last Holds are lost to the darkness. There is no hope, no point.

Or. You know. There was no hope. No flashpoint of revitalization, of realization that no, maybe things can change. Maybe, just maybe, with enough stubbornness, certain things are possible.

Including change.

Including, quite possibly, grabbing hold of an avalanche and dragging it backwards up the mountain.
 
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torroar said:
It is not minorly, it is majorly psychological. The sheer weight of the accumulated Grudges, continual losses, ever shrinking, etc. The prevailing opinion of the majority of dawi, prior to Karak Ungor, was the same as it was in canon 2522 era i.e. 'We are all going to die, there is nothing that will change that, we will just stubbornly be ground down until there is nothing remaining'. The issue is that, to the average dwarf, such a fate is grim but acceptable, because there quite simply is no foreseeable alternative. It is, in the end, an elaborate and lengthy racial suicide. The ancient glories will never be recaptured, the future holds only eventual death, and it is better to die trying to wipe out the impossibly long list of Grudges than anything else. I would point to the Grudge Striking Ceremony in the epilogue of Karak Ungor as an example of what I'm talking about. Grudges are a hell of a thing. For all that dwarfs are generally meant to be more 'grounded', literally resistant to magic and whatever, plenty about them is supernatural. The Runesmithing/Runepriests, the sheer breadth of their mechanical abilities when they are willing to do it, the sheer precision and perfection of their craftwork, etc. Literal inhuman concentration and strength/skill/durability/etc. The White Dwarf was so offended by a certain oath-breaking that he literally stubborned himself into becoming a racial and deific avatar. Dwarfs can stubborn themselves past where starvation and dehydration should have killed them. Because Grudges, and Oaths, are so engraved into their metaphysical makeup. The sheer level of Grudges that have accumulated, ever more written into the Dammaz Kron than struck out, is incredibly deleterious to their race, because it reached a point a while ago of 'there is no way we can ever actually strike all of these out' coupling with 'we have to write in a new grudge always' and a general level of cultural inertia tipping into a remarkably stubborn and slow yet supposedly inevitable avalanche right towards extinction.

One of the quotes I've found regarding the dwarfs dates back to the War of Vengeance, even, from the Master of Dragons book:

"They fight well, the Elgi. They fight better than any warriors I have ever seen. But do they suffer well? No one suffers like the Dawi. We will make this the battleground - they will be broken on the anvil of our suffering."

There's another quote out there, one I frustratingly cannot find anymore, and it is of the perspective either of greenskins or skaven, one of the two. I'm paraphrasing from memory here, of course. They remark that the Dwarfs themselves are not weak, they simply assume they are. That they are doomed. That they are not quite fallen, but certainly falling. But that the great secret is, in fact, that the dwarfs are still strong. And mighty. And if they ever, ever remembered just how strong they could be, then there would be severe issues for their enemies. You can contrast this to one part of 8E which fits, in that after the insult of Tyrion to the dwarfs when the Asur and Dawi both fought against Mannfred to rescue the kidnapped daughter of the Everqueen, the longbeards clamored, demanded that Thorgrim write in a big fat new Grudge into the Dammaz Kron. Because that was how it was going to be. This momentary alliance and improvement in relations better than in centuries which has been slightly scuffed by a distressed and frustrated elf means that we should write a new Grudge and go to war and vengeance and surely lose many dawi because That's How We Are Going To Do Until We End. With, of course, the implied End being inevitable. The Age of Reclamation got a few holds back, but Karak Varn is still a pit, and K8P is lost, with only 500 dawi sitting in the citadel as the vast majority is held by greenskins and skaven. Norn will bloody itself senseless against Athel Loren. And we'll grit our teeth and bear it until we're gone. Right?

Thorgrim says no. This is shocking behavior, and while if it was just a Beardling it'd be one thing, it's the High King himself.

So, circling around to the original bit, as long as The End was inevitable, then what is the point of bringing new lives into the world? Sure, duty between nobles might keep things going, you're expected to birth at least a new heir and a spare when you marry. That's How Things Are Done. Perhaps love between two dwarfs might ensure a few more sprogs here and there. But inevitably, there will eventually be no more beardlings, and only bitter and grim longbeards who will spit in the eye of their foes as they, inevitably, fall and the last Holds are lost to the darkness. There is no hope, no point.

Or. You know. There was no hope. No flashpoint of revitalization, of realization that no, maybe things can change. Maybe, just maybe, with enough stubbornness, certain things are possible.

Including change.

Including, quite possibly, grabbing hold of an avalanche and dragging it backwards up the mountain.
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or a certain bull digging a Canal for a mighty river
 
Huh. The real reason Fred resonated with the Dwarves. He helped gain their Hope Back. And that probably did more to revitalize their races then even they knew.
 
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Uh @torroar this post about Dwarf Hope feels like it should be in the informational threadmarks so people can keep that information in mind.
 
Dmol8 said:
Uh @torroar this post about Dwarf Hope feels like it should be in the informational threadmarks so people can keep that information in mind.
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Seconded. Not just to keep that information in mind - but because it happened.

It wasn't handwaved. It wasn't a gimme. It was sweat and blood and tears and prayers and rolls and player choices that made it happen. That made it happen. It came naturally, and it was joyful, and we celebrated it.

And that is fucking rare in quests.
 
Voikirium said:
@torroar, I had a few more mercenary ideas. Sorry if I'm posting them too often: I've been brainstorming them for Estalia and Kislev quest as well, and sometimes some seem to fit best here.

Scattered Sons of Sigmar [Race: Human] [Origins: The Old World] [Description:Sigmarite archers from the various Imperial diasporas, such as Montfort or Erengrad, seeking to prove themselves the equal in bravery and worth to the motherland. While they are not the absolute best, or the most numerous, they are fairly cheap as these things go, and not as prone to melting in Melee as other archers.] [Numbers: 500 Archers]

The Ship Takers [Race: Ogres] [Origin:Mountains of Mourne] [Description: Ogre Bulls under the "Admiral" Glokur Seaboiler, an ambitious Firebelly with no less than five vessels under her command. Nobody tell her they were the oldest designs the Tileans could bribe her with.] [Numbers: 5 Gallies, 1 Admiral Glokur Seaboiler-- an ogre firebelly]
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Posting is fine, man. no worries. The former, is acceptable, but the latter is less so. Most Firebellies are meant to be traveling preachers, not really so much commanders/leaders. I'm not saying it wouldn't happen, but it stretches pretty badly to go straight to a Mercenary Admiral. Obviously the Firebellies probably have a Tyrant/Slaughtermaster hybrid leader, they are technically a unique tribe that hangs around Fire Mouth, but those who range out from that tight core group are not...meant to really be what Glokur would be. I'll go ahead and add the first to the front page.
 
On another note. Barring the unfortunate destruction of the Bildhofen line in the upcoming conflict, how strong is the claim of the Bieldhofen family for the title of Emperor?

I know that it's an electoral office, similar to the emperor of the Holy Roman Empire, but it wasn't that unusual to simply vote for the next heir in line.

I'm ambivalent about it. On one hand a continuous line of emperors of the Bildhofen line would certainly be prejudiced against Frederick and by extension Ostland. On the other the Empire would avoid the Talabeclanders that followed him.

Fun fact: The Unfähiger line that followed Magnus the Pious can be translated into unable, incapable or unfit. A bit on the nose.
 
Czes said:
On another note. Barring the unfortunate destruction of the Bildhofen line in the upcoming conflict, how strong is the claim of the Bieldhofen family for the title of Emperor?

I know that it's an electoral office, similar to the emperor of the Holy Roman Empire, but it wasn't that unusual to simply vote for the next heir in line.

I'm ambivalent about it. On one hand a continuous line of emperors of the Bildhofen line would certainly be prejudiced against Frederick and by extension Ostland. On the other the Empire would avoid the Talabeclanders that followed him.

Fun fact: The Unfähiger line that followed Magnus the Pious can be translated into unable, incapable or unfit. A bit on the nose.
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Unlikely to be a major issue. The northern Trident has 3 votes, and are extremely unlikely to vote for a weak Emperor, plus Magnus's brother whose name currently escapes me is strongly Ulrican and also unlikely to want a weak Emperor. Then there are a bunch of Sigmarites around in the Electoral College at the moment, so it seems likely to me we'll be getting a Sigmarite Emperor next, and likely a strong one.
 
Plus I don't really think Gunther would be the best Emperor in general. Back when we first met him when we took Logan to get tested by Ar-Ulric Logan, we got a sneak peek of several traits Gunther had. Can't remember all of them but one of them was Imperial Supremacist, so relations with other nations probably would go down the drain, meaning our hard work with Laurelorn and Kislev could be lost. Personally I'm against voting for Gunther as the next Emperor not because I dislike him but because I personally don't think he'd be that good of one. I fell like he'd use his newfound political power against Ostland and the rest of the Northern Trident, ruin our alliance with Kislev and enflame relations with Laurelorn and maybe even Bretonnia too.

Edit: Found the traits, they were at the end of the Religious Matters interlude but I don't really know how to quote things while editing on phone
 
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Eh, even if Gunther gets voted in, its not that big a deal.

The man is Magnus' younger brother, but he is not that much younger. Odds are good that he will be in his seventies when the next Election takes place, same as Frederick.

Starting at that age does not make for a long reign.
 
Probably shouldn't set the precedent for a dynasty.

I'd rather just find us the best fit or at least one that isn't actively against the trident
 
Valerian said:
Eh, even if Gunther gets voted in, its not that big a deal.

The man is Magnus' younger brother, but he is not that much younger. Odds are good that he will be in his seventies when the next Election takes place, same as Frederick.

Starting at that age does not make for a long reign.
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honestly with their being 20 years until mangus dies most likely(unless he dies in beastmen invasion) that the next emperor is most likely a elector heir or someone we don't know of
 
KingElessar said:
Why not? I'm just asking out of curiosity and not trying to be contrary here so if it appears that way I'm sorry.
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The Emperor is supposed to be a unifying figure, who works for the benefit of all (most) provinces in the Empire. Frederick is highly controversial at best.

The cults might support him, if for no other reason than his Mien, but politically it would be a nightmare. Frederick is known as an unpredictable brute and troublemaker on the political scene. This adds to his fixation to the problems of the northern parts of the Empire. While Wissenland, Stirland and Averland aren't disinclined towards us, they simply have different priorities than what they assume Fredericks would be.

The Moot, Middenland, Marienburg and Talabecland would never vote for him on principle.

The Reikland would be neutral at best.
In short. Emperor Frederick would divide the Empire politically and economically in a way that might not be recoverable.

Reiksmarschall Frederick? Sure. Problem solver and accomplished warrior. Emperor Frederick? That's a powder keg waiting to blow up.

The best the Hohenzollern line (and the Trident in general) can do is to hope for a mildly competent Emperor to follow on Magnus and continue as they have or, should someone incompetent ascend the throne, outright ignore the south and continue as is.
 
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