Can we not have a disscusion about Lenin in thread, please. We had enough bad memories already.
Hope Alyssia will not notice things changing in Freddy but that Sunweaver will. When she see them again she may flip.
 
I'm very curious how a strengthen soul bond will develop, and how elves who know about the thing would react to it since I imagine that even when it was more common, albeit still rare, that the bond Freddy and Nat will have will be unheard of it not the thing of legends and tales among the greatest lovers in elven history.

I mean, Nat's bond with the Widow, while still nowhere as close as it is with her sister, is strong and has been growing stronger over the years, and Freddy's own soul is very much a beaten up but put back together stronger thing thanks to the influence of multiple gods.

Beyond just being even closer to one another in general, I can't help but wonder what knock-on effects this might have in the long term. Will the various blessings start mixing together/being shared in some way? I mean, we already see this in how Freddy is no longer being negatively effected by the cold Nat gives off and how she doesn't feel as freezing all the time.

If nothing else the family is continuing the trend of having very different souls in general, lol.
 
Name: Frederick von Hohenzollern
Date of Birth: 2286
Titles: Elector Count of Ostland, Grand Prince of Ostland, Margrave of the Northern March, Prince of Wulfenburg, Hero of Nordland, The Steel Bull of Ostland, Hero of Ostland, Slayer of the Everliving, the Unkillable, Steward of the Third Imperial Fleet, Gromril Belly, Dwarf Friend to Josef Bugman, Goldgiver, Graf of Guns, Count of Cannons, Creator of the Blue Steel Concordant, Slayer of Warhoof, True Dawongr, Zakdrungi a Dum (Crazed Vanquisher Of Darkness), Das Azul (The Dependable), Unbaki a Thagi (Breaker Of Traitors), Sarathlecaidromstryn (Defiant Noble Souled Ally of Hope)
Prestige: 15,700
Wargear: Brain Wounder (Runefang of Ostland), Oskana the Gryphon with Runic Breastplate with Rune of Adamant (BD: 2325), The Light of Summer (Wood Elf Healing Artifact), Bokdrungni (Dwarf Runic Fist), Frozen Promise (Masterwork Ledstali 'Plate' Armor)
Fate Points: 1
Fortune Points: 1

Is the Fate Point count here updated, or is that the point we burnt when we were saved by Isha's intervention?
 
Speaking of Widow . Can we take a moment to point out how effectivly conceplually she is agains Chaos buggers?
Serants of pleasure are numbed in their sensories, a fate that even their prince would consider one of the worst.
Cold slow and even stops grwth and development of rot and desises, and her cold works on unnatural kind
then we have angry flames and boiling blood, in clear opposition to chilling winds and frezing waves.
The only one not being that affected by her presence would be scheemer, but he seems occupied elsewhere.

No flippin wonder Kislev holds so well.
 
Is the Fate Point count here updated, or is that the point we burnt when we were saved by Isha's intervention?

That is the burnt point. Given how long things have been taking thanks to IRL and what not, I might update the front page properly so that this sort of thing doesn't confuse everyone. Sorry all for that. We've got an appointment with a surgeon and another with a CT scan across town scheduled for the parent today, so in all likelihood it'll be evening when that stuff can be done.
 
A little bit more complex than that. Every Leninist that I think of as a Leninist is a Practical Romantic, but not every Practical Romantic I've read in fiction is a Leninist. I don't know if every Leninist I talked to I identified as a Leninist correctly even if they would have done so or wouldn't have done so.

Basically it is a Belief and Faith division. Belief is how one thinks and Faith is how one acts. So Practical Romantics are characters/archetypes who act like Lenin and Leninists did and do, but they don't have to think like them.

And the reason why it is a lionization if a Practical Romantic comes into power by being the better option without the aid of some secret police suppressing his rivals is that in real life people like Bhelen are walking huge red flags with their actions in progressive politics. Lenin himself actually alienated first the Mensheviks and then a chunk of the Bolsheviks as well with his actions and agitations for a centralized authoritarian revolutionary committee leading a peasant and ex-peasant/worker uprising.

There is no way forward to power for a Practical Romantic without leaving a lot of progressive opponents in his wake and unless those opponents get suppressed somehow before his rise to power or he's given some sort of boost to reach power a Practical Romantic never can obtain the sort of power Bhelen wields.
Leaving aside the question of how accurate that classification, which ultimately underlays your entire argument is, I 'd say the biggest problem is that your argument seems to be tailored around modern'ish world, where there is Right/Left political split, and such thing as "progressive opposition" can even exist on a conceptial level.

But dwarves of Dragon age are not such a society. They are an elected monarchy on top of a strict caste system in which only the highest caste, the Nobles, has any say in the actual politics.

The reason Bhelen is the better option is because he weakens the bonds of the caste system. In no small part because that weakens the Nobles and allows him to concentrate power in his own hands. The only reason that ends up working in his favour, endings-wise is because the Caste system combined with constant warfare against the Darkspawn is grinding Orzammar to dust all while a substantial chunk of the remaining population is prohibited from taking arms or indeed contributing in any productive way. And even then, endings do not go past a sigle generation, so we don't know if his actions backfire in the long run.


To put it another way, you seem to have taken a system of classification and chose to treat it as a Gospel, always correct, with no exceptions, conditional or otherwise, even when dealing with societies and people where it should not be applicable.
 
If I were ever try for a Dragon Age quest again, I might try to do one with a 'surviving' dwarf hold that wasn't Orzammar or the other one with the ooky spooks. Try and last through the ages, possibly...with that one secret history of a dwarf warrior/noble recognizing that the caste system is bullshit reaching a holdout or something.
 
What many people seem to forget when talking about cast system is that they created extremely stable societys, where even the most grueling, harsh and disgusting job that no-one typically wants to do in other societies, is done and typically done with a low pride in who they and their families are and what's their lot in life/world.

That cast systems completely stops any and all hopes of progress (both societal, cultural and industrial) is det glaring weakness but it is a weakness we can see in hindsight.

For thousands of years India and other places with cast-systems (or near enough systems) was more stable overall than other societies.

And when you coupled that with the habit of marring of young people early and thus loosing the natural drive of young men needing to prove themselves to the bride and society, you have effectively a nation/society in stasis.

But with that said, an Dragon Age dwarf quest where the reigning Noble/King would see the need for reformation because of circumstance and thus trying to throw off thousands of years of cultural and societal pressure would be very interesting to read!

Especially as you get to the point of reforming the society around a more social-mobility friendly typ while still retaining a good warrior cast.

It took Europe until the invention of the Rifle before they could truly transcend from having a warrior-elite.
 
Leaving aside the question of how accurate that classification, which ultimately underlays your entire argument is, I 'd say the biggest problem is that your argument seems to be tailored around modern'ish world, where there is Right/Left political split, and such thing as "progressive opposition" can even exist on a conceptial level.

But dwarves of Dragon age are not such a society. They are an elected monarchy on top of a strict caste system in which only the highest caste, the Nobles, has any say in the actual politics.

The reason Bhelen is the better option is because he weakens the bonds of the caste system. In no small part because that weakens the Nobles and allows him to concentrate power in his own hands. The only reason that ends up working in his favour, endings-wise is because the Caste system combined with constant warfare against the Darkspawn is grinding Orzammar to dust all while a substantial chunk of the remaining population is prohibited from taking arms or indeed contributing in any productive way. And even then, endings do not go past a sigle generation, so we don't know if his actions backfire in the long run.


To put it another way, you seem to have taken a system of classification and chose to treat it as a Gospel, always correct, with no exceptions, conditional or otherwise, even when dealing with societies and people where it should not be applicable.

Why are you making a Watsonian/Diegetic counterargument to my Doylist/Exegetic argument?

It doesn't matter that the Dwarves of Dragon Age are in-character not on the Left-Right spectrum. Their authors are on it because they are modern writers and are writing a Magical Zombie Apocalypse set in a pop culture Medieval World and that shapes what they write. So on a meatextual level analysing Dragon Age Dwarves trough the lens of the Left-Right Spectrum is valid.

As for it not being applicable you're going to have to tell me how it is not applicable when the Fantasy World of Dragon Age has things like potions and healing poultices that work instantly when this was not the case in Medieval Times even in their belief systems. As in only powerful mystics and artifacts of various forms could do instant healing while potions, poultices and other products of herbal medicine/alchemy were actually limited to over time healing.

If modern day tropes about systems underlying the setting are in use then it is fair to criticize those same underlying systems trough a modern lens.
 
Why are you making a Watsonian/Diegetic counterargument to my Doylist/Exegetic argument?

It doesn't matter that the Dwarves of Dragon Age are in-character not on the Left-Right spectrum. Their authors are on it because they are modern writers and are writing a Magical Zombie Apocalypse set in a pop culture Medieval World and that shapes what they write. So on a meatextual level analysing Dragon Age Dwarves trough the lens of the Left-Right Spectrum is valid.

As for it not being applicable you're going to have to tell me how it is not applicable when the Fantasy World of Dragon Age has things like potions and healing poultices that work instantly when this was not the case in Medieval Times even in their belief systems. As in only powerful mystics and artifacts of various forms could do instant healing while potions, poultices and other products of herbal medicine/alchemy were actually limited to over time healing.

If modern day tropes about systems underlying the setting are in use then it is fair to criticize those same underlying systems trough a modern lens.
The issue is not with the idea of analyzing with a modern viewpoint. The issue is with absolutizing the system you use for analisys, to the point of accusing anyone who seems to even suggest something incompatible with the systems conclusions of lionizing the character you consider to be "bad".


As for fantasy elements existing, they, if anything, make the system build for real world less applicable, not more. The existance of those potions and whatnot changes the way society operates compared to real life history. The exact scale of changes may be up to debate, but any change makes the system derived from RL data that much less capable of producing the absolute claims you are making.


To put things in other way, my entire issue with what you have stated thus far is that you seem to be taking a trope of a character archetype (Practical Romantics), applying it to a fictional character in a fantasy world(Bhelen in DAO), then take your understanding of the way people who roughly fit this archetype in real life end up doing IRL politics (Leninists requiring Secret police aid), draw a conclusion about the entire archetype (practical romantics can not be a viable option, if they are it is lionization), and make a claim about that specific character ( Bhelen can't be a better option) and then proceed to accuse people who happened to literally just quote what the work of fiction claimed (Bhelen being a better ending going by ending scroll) of lionizing him and the entire archetype.

To be clear, everything up to "Bhelen can't be a better option" is fine. It is your opinion you are entitled to having it and expressing it. The issue comes with the accusation part, doubly so when the logic for the accusation is based a lot of personal interpretations and assumptions on the derived from an archetype classification syste other people seem to not have even heard of before, let alone agreed with you on it being valid and applicable.
 
The issue is not with the idea of analyzing with a modern viewpoint. The issue is with absolutizing the system you use for analisys, to the point of accusing anyone who seems to even suggest something incompatible with the systems conclusions of lionizing the character you consider to be "bad".


As for fantasy elements existing, they, if anything, make the system build for real world less applicable, not more. The existance of those potions and whatnot changes the way society operates compared to real life history. The exact scale of changes may be up to debate, but any change makes the system derived from RL data that much less capable of producing the absolute claims you are making.


To put things in other way, my entire issue with what you have stated thus far is that you seem to be taking a trope of a character archetype (Practical Romantics), applying it to a fictional character in a fantasy world(Bhelen in DAO), then take your understanding of the way people who roughly fit this archetype in real life end up doing IRL politics (Leninists requiring Secret police aid), draw a conclusion about the entire archetype (practical romantics can not be a viable option, if they are it is lionization), and make a claim about that specific character ( Bhelen can't be a better option) and then proceed to accuse people who happened to literally just quote what the work of fiction claimed (Bhelen being a better ending going by ending scroll) of lionizing him and the entire archetype.

To be clear, everything up to "Bhelen can't be a better option" is fine. It is your opinion you are entitled to having it and expressing it. The issue comes with the accusation part, doubly so when the logic for the accusation is based a lot of personal interpretations and assumptions on the derived from an archetype classification syste other people seem to not have even heard of before, let alone agreed with you on it being valid and applicable.

What accusation? No really:

People this is a Warhammer thread. There is a lot about the grimdark of Fantasy and 40k that is dumb, but having Practical Romantics like Bhelen or the Emperor of Mankind reap what they sow instead of being lionized is not one of those things. In fact that is probably one of the smartest subversions of tropes in all of Warhammer.

And the sad part is that Dragon Age is two decades younger than Warhammer 40k as a setting.

The very fact that Bhelen is an actual valid candidate because of his own actions is lionizing him. In real life the only way Practical Romantics get into power is if they are backed by either allied or opposing secret police to be a political obstacle for actual progressives.

So the fact that he is shown as being the lesser evil to put into power is still lionizing him because he is made into a valid choice and not the result of behind the scene political machinations.

The Practical Romantic is a Trope codified by Lenin and named...I'm not sure by who. It shows up after WWII at the latest and is one of the stock archetypes of Punk settings where a rebel against society willing to use any policy that was proven in practice to bring about the revolution is one of the stock faction leaders.

Not in every story, but in most of them.

As for the Secret Police thing, as far as I am aware no Leninist has taken power without the aid of a secret police either on their side or against them trying to use Leninism as a political wedge to divide the Left.

The very achievement of preserving the Anvil of the Void around in Dragon Age: Origins is called Pragmatist.



Nothing you've said here is something that can't be applied to pre-Revolution Imperial Russia. Heck the Paragon Branka who is seeking the Anvil and doing horrible atrocities to get to it literally has a Slavic name that means Defender in Serbian and Branch in Russian.

A little bit more complex than that. Every Leninist that I think of as a Leninist is a Practical Romantic, but not every Practical Romantic I've read in fiction is a Leninist. I don't know if every Leninist I talked to I identified as a Leninist correctly even if they would have done so or wouldn't have done so.

Basically it is a Belief and Faith division. Belief is how one thinks and Faith is how one acts. So Practical Romantics are characters/archetypes who act like Lenin and Leninists did and do, but they don't have to think like them.

And the reason why it is a lionization if a Practical Romantic comes into power by being the better option without the aid of some secret police suppressing his rivals is that in real life people like Bhelen are walking huge red flags with their actions in progressive politics. Lenin himself actually alienated first the Mensheviks and then a chunk of the Bolsheviks as well with his actions and agitations for a centralized authoritarian revolutionary committee leading a peasant and ex-peasant/worker uprising.

There is no way forward to power for a Practical Romantic without leaving a lot of progressive opponents in his wake and unless those opponents get suppressed somehow before his rise to power or he's given some sort of boost to reach power a Practical Romantic never can obtain the sort of power Bhelen wields.

Why are you making a Watsonian/Diegetic counterargument to my Doylist/Exegetic argument?

It doesn't matter that the Dwarves of Dragon Age are in-character not on the Left-Right spectrum. Their authors are on it because they are modern writers and are writing a Magical Zombie Apocalypse set in a pop culture Medieval World and that shapes what they write. So on a meatextual level analysing Dragon Age Dwarves trough the lens of the Left-Right Spectrum is valid.

As for it not being applicable you're going to have to tell me how it is not applicable when the Fantasy World of Dragon Age has things like potions and healing poultices that work instantly when this was not the case in Medieval Times even in their belief systems. As in only powerful mystics and artifacts of various forms could do instant healing while potions, poultices and other products of herbal medicine/alchemy were actually limited to over time healing.

If modern day tropes about systems underlying the setting are in use then it is fair to criticize those same underlying systems trough a modern lens.

Which one of my posts in this conversation/argument accuses anyone who quoted and/or mentioned how Dragon Age: Origins views Bhelen in this thread of lionizing Bhelen?

I've been arguing that the way Bhelen is portrayed is a lionization of a bad Trope/Political View. I've not been arguing that anyone who talked about Bhelen here was lionizing him.
 
If I were ever try for a Dragon Age quest again, I might try to do one with a 'surviving' dwarf hold that wasn't Orzammar or the other one with the ooky spooks. Try and last through the ages, possibly...with that one secret history of a dwarf warrior/noble recognizing that the caste system is bullshit reaching a holdout or something.
That would be super neat, lots of potential fun to be had with different Thaigs, greater and lesser, that can span whole underneath of continent.

I think the coolest of the known thaigs to play with would be Kal'Hirol since, according to canon, the thaig very nearly finished the dwarven barrier doors that would have held off the Darkspawn during the First Blight, if for a couple decades at least. Would be cool if, due to want of a nail, Dailan and his Casteless volunteers rather than fighting only as the darkspawn are invading and giving time for other citizens to evacuate, he and the casteless instead join the delaying force in keeping the darkspawn back for long enough for the barrier doors to be complete and close.

This would not only save the thaig, but lead to a newfound respect for the casteless and, as you mentioned, the citizens and leading nobility to realize how bullshit the whole thing is since it was thanks to casteless that their whole city was saved.

A result of this would be having the main learning thaig, the unofficial smith caste capital, surviving and continuing to learn and improve, building more weapons to combat darkspawn and maybe even developing new types of golems since they had a number of them which they modified already.

And since it is located underneath the Arling of Amaranthine in Ferelden, and since it is a greater thaig cut off from rest of empire, they would have to trade their services as masters smiths to surface more for materials, food, etc.

Sorry for rant, idea just came to head and had to share it, and this is just one potential path such a potential quest could go. :D
 
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How silly of me to think I'd have time today instead of appointments and clinics and medical pickups and waiting for incorrect supplies that we can't use hahaaaaaaaaaa and traffic and driving back and forth across town. I wanted to finish this tonight, but boy it was just one of those days that started with a doctor's appointment at eight in the morning. Blrugh. Tomorrow though. This, I make as a solemn vow to myself and to ya'll.

In the meantime. A small, teensy tiny excerpt:

The throng and the armies milled about as was the wont of such masses of bodies. Some manned the barricades, others patrolled, and others sat and waited, or lay upon their bedrolls and slept the sleep of soldiers who know that they may never get another chance. By now, the occasional shaking was almost comforting in its familiarity, if it weren't something indicative of the enemy gathering greater and greater strength which which to try and batter the Three Gates of the Ancestors down. Given dwarf masonry and runework, the gates shouldn't have even been moving at all. But then, neither should the Great Gate of Karaz-a-Karak have ever trembled from any blow, yet in that regard the foot of Gork - or Mork - himself had torn the proud mein of many a longbeard. Even without the wizards of the Magic Colleges providing their ways, the dwarfs were not blind to the enemy outside. Through clever construction and ancient ways, sound and even sight could be funneled with precisely crafted miniscule tunnels and perfectly made mirrors that allowed those behind the gates to peer and listen to what was occuring on the other side. In any case, the defenders of the Everpeak saw that the greenskins had once more begun marshalling their shamans, though many of them still hobbled about, the lingering wounds to their feet seemingly remaining despite most of the other orcs and goblins recovering by now. Trolls battered at the gates day and night with clubs that glowed with ugly green WAAAAGH!! energies, with the occasional swinging thump from one of the titanic metal clubs held by the slave giants. Despite everything, all the promises, all the glories, all the trust in the works of the Ancestors, it was impossible to mistake the fact that dents were starting to be made.

This time around, the dwarfs would not simply wait around for the damned urks to once more blaspheme upon their great works and earn a great many new Grudges in the Dammaz Kron. There had been whispers aplenty, amongst the commanders, and therefore a storm of conspiracy and speculation amongst the soldiers, about what was to be done.

When the answer came, it came loudly, and boldly.

"OH!"

It came from the depths, the eldest halls and greatest vaults, and with an expanding wave of silent awe and joy amongst the dwarfs.

"HO!"

It came with belching steam, and cranking gears, and crackling rope that had been alchemically treated thousands of years ago for optimal tensile strength and durability.

"HO!"

It came with thunderous, steady steps of plodding stone carved from quarries mined out before Sigmar breathed his first breath. Of gromril so finely wrought that there was no unpleasant clang or clank as it moved forward.

"HO!"

It came as a blend of ancient masteries, with purely of runecraft, and others from ancient pacts and exchanges with those who carried on the legacy of Morgrim himself.

It was an answer that scarcely could ever have been believed to be breathed into reality by the dwarfs. For so long, had they fallen back, ever backwards, into shrinking populations into fewer and fewer holds. Their greatest creations gone silent for lack of the power and knowledge to reclaim them. Their greatest works never to be replicated, for none could match the Ancestors of the past, Ancestor God or otherwise. This was known. Shamefully, this was the truth that a great many of the dwarf people had learned to accept, that they were destined to decline ere there were nothing but their crumbling creations to be remembered by in the world. A truth turned lie, by the wondrous and stalwart leadership of Thorgrim Grudgebearer, who had through his deeds and words reignited the guttering flame of defiance and kindled the light of hope in the darkening hearts of his people. Yet even those great efforts had seemed to falter with the siege of the Everpeak, the loss of the Great Gate, and incursion of the greenskins.

No longer.

It had been spoken of in the tales of Karak Ungor, and in the impeccably done chronicles of the Rememberer Evangeline Hertwig, but even then, so many more had not quite believed in their hearts.

They did now.

With mouths open, and some of the longbeards even shedding tears at a sight they never thought to see themselves, the dwarfs watched alongside the mystified humans of the Empire.

They watched as gronti-duraz walked once more.

Not the greatest of their kind, no, not yet, but that any walked at all was a marvel. They walked, runes blazing to life upon their bodies, accompanied and technically outnumbered by their admittedly somewhat lesser but nevertheless effective descendant creations in the gronti-jiffaz. Mixtures of runecraft and engineering, crafted in the Time of Woes, awoken to fight once more. At the head of the procession was none other than Kragg the Grim himself, expression as severe as it had ever been, yet he walked with great dignity and presence befitting the one who had once more struck the Rune of Awakening, and had instructed others that it not be lost again amongst other Runelords. Runelords and Runesmiths that walked at the sides and rear of the formation as well, keeping an eye on things. Though he had dared not wake the greatest of the gronti-duraz within the Everpeak's vaults, for he was determined not to suffer the fate of Silverthumb, what he had awoken was a legion of stone, gromril, and truesteel that would serve quite ably indeed.

Though, perhaps, the severity of his expression had something to do with the gliding woman of gold and silver who strode along with him at the head of the legion, her laughter pointed and loud to draw all the greater attention towards what now marched.

"Have I not proven my sincerity? My worth?" She said with shocking quiet, the many bangles on her wrist and voluminousness of her sleeve covering her mouth.

Kragg's frown did not deepen, such a thing was simply not possible given the geographical depth and severity it had long engraved into his face, but his eyes did narrow ever so slightly.

"Your aid was...acceptable," he finally grumped out, keeping his head high and not even looking towards her, instead his glare was quite locked onto the Gate of Grungni they were now approaching. "Unnecessary, however. I knew what needed to be done."

"Of course, of course," she nodded deeply, transforming it into a twisting half-spin and skip forward, forever dancing when good simple walking would have done. "And yet, to draw the magic forth in amounts enough to wake those runes...,"

"I have already considered your request," Kragg ground out.

For a single second, the Matriarch of the Gold College was still. Only a single second, but notable for that alone.

"Perhaps," he concluded with a deep nod.

"Excellent!" She smiled broadly, each barefoot step a heavy thump against the stone. "Excellent."

"I said perhaps," he repeated, to which the irritating human just smiled again.

The Gate of Grungni awaited them, and if Kragg was lucky, quite a few urks for him to work out his frustrations on.
 
Dawi: So, magic turns us into stone.
Runelord: Yes.
Dawi: But we need a lot of magic to wake the Rune Golems.
Runelord: Yes.
Dawi: ... enough to turn you into stone.
Runelord: ... yes?
Dawi: And we have human allies. Some of whom can use magic. Without turning into stone.
Runelord: ...
Dawi: So... why not ask the humans to help?
Runelord: ... That's going in the Book.
 
Well damn, if Kragg is willing to accept Imperial College aid that kinda shatters the dam of precedence in involving human mages in Dawi runeworking projects.

You can't teach them, Ancestors forbid, but work with them? Yes, apparently they can.
 
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They walked, runes blazing to life upon their bodies, accompanied and technically outnumbered by their admittedly somewhat lesser but nevertheless effective descendant creations in the gronti-jiffaz. Mixtures of runecraft and engineering, crafted in the Time of Woes, awoken to fight once more.
Oh? I assume these are Rune Guardians.

Does that mean that Kragg helped upgrade design and make more in general? If so, while its not mass producing golems, Ancestors forbid, that is still a huge force multiplier if most holds' runesmiths and lords can make a few every couple years or decade.
"Have I not proven my sincerity? My worth?" She said with shocking quiet, the many bangles on her wrist and voluminousness of her sleeve covering her mouth.

Kragg's frown did not deepen, such a thing was simply not possible given the geographical depth and severity it had long engraved into his face, but his eyes did narrow ever so slightly.

"Your aid was...acceptable," he finally grumped out, keeping his head high and not even looking towards her, instead his glare was quite locked onto the Gate of Grungni they were now approaching. "Unnecessary, however. I knew what needed to be done."

"Of course, of course," she nodded deeply, transforming it into a twisting half-spin and skip forward, forever dancing when good simple walking would have done. "And yet, to draw the magic forth in amounts enough to wake those runes...,"

"I have already considered your request," Kragg ground out.

For a single second, the Matriarch of the Gold College was still. Only a single second, but notable for that alone.

"Perhaps," he concluded with a deep nod.

"Excellent!" She smiled broadly, each barefoot step a heavy thump against the stone. "Excellent."

"I said perhaps," he repeated, to which the irritating human just smiled again.

The Gate of Grungni awaited them, and if Kragg was lucky, quite a few urks for him to work out his frustrations on.
But this is arguably even better! Runesmiths and human mages working together on projects!

Just like how the greatest dwarf works were made during their days of friendship with the high elves, their magic helping them build some of their greatest things like the original waystones, maybe might new impressive things be made working alongside their new human wizard allies!

Besides, Empire has been their best allies since their falling out with elves so why not take advantage, hehehe.

Thanks for preview @torroar! So exciting!
 
Remind me fellows what Kragg's reasoning for not bringing out the best is based on?
Silverthumb.
Though he had dared not wake the greatest of the gronti-duraz within the Everpeak's vaults, for he was determined not to suffer the fate of Silverthumb,
They were stored in the inner sanctums of the oldest Dwarf fortresses, where the Runelords practiced their crafts and kept their Anvils of Doom. During the War of Vengeance, the "old magic" that had empowered the Rune Golems had begun to sink deeper into the earth, out of the reach of any Runelord.[1a] The last one able to command them was Ranuld Silverthumb, the Runelord of Karaz-a-Karak, and even he needed the aid of other Runelords to fully awaken them. The act of attempting to animate the slumbering Golems and use them in the war alone turned him into stone.[1a]
Basically same problem as the Chaos dwarfs trying to use magic too much, will turn you into stone.

That is why having human wizards on hand to provide the magic would be a big game changer, they don't have to worry about that and so long as Winds not mixing due to Runesmiths filtering it won't get corrupted.
 
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Which one of my posts in this conversation/argument accuses anyone who quoted and/or mentioned how Dragon Age: Origins views Bhelen in this thread of lionizing Bhelen?

I've been arguing that the way Bhelen is portrayed is a lionization of a bad Trope/Political View. I've not been arguing that anyone who talked about Bhelen here was lionizing him.
Ok. After rereading all of your posts, I have to admit to misunderstanding your position. I got the impression you are condemning the posters, myself included, rather than the game's take. I apologize for that.

All that said, I still disagree with the take on Bhelen, as I understand it, but it would take a lot more time and effort than I am willing to spend to make sure I got your position correctly, so I am open to us just agreeing to disagree.
 
Radical's Measures: You've had a thought, though it is one that you were not sure you could even allow yourself to fully form. Yet it came to you and refused to leave. A drunken thing, slopping out into existence after one too many drinks late at night. Still it remains. This spell, the one mastered by the Jade Wizard Adira, that can ensure successful conception? There is a careful value to it, not only to you, but potentially others as well. Say, a race whose decline has been hammered into your mind like nothing else by your experiences? At the same time, that same race is intensely mistrustful of magic, for various reasons. But there are others, you know, who stand apart from the rest of their fellows. Those who have spent a considerable time apart, whether culturally or outright physically. It's something they probably would not consider at all, due to magic being involved, but they might, perhaps, maybe listen to you if you suggest it? Maybe? You would have to think about it, and the risk if it goes wrong could be considerable, but you could at the very least ask, right? Very, very carefully of course. You need to ask someone who has spent a long time away from the mountains, whose mindset is not calcified. Someone…like Kazul Goldeneye of Karak Ungor. Obviously, it is immensely arrogant to think you could suggest this at all…but you were quite drunk when you came up with the idea at all. Cost: 100. Time: 1 Year. Reward: Very, very quiet dialogue opened up with Kazul Goldeneye, Princess of Karak Ungor, former Mercenary Thane, about the possibility of a Jade Wizard like Adira aiding in increasing pregnancies and easing births for the dwarf population of Karak Ungor. Chance of Success: 50%

When we wrap up:
-the ark escape
-the battle of the everpeak
-returning to ostland
-exterminating the beastmen

it may finally be time to take this option
 
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