Just one problem though, we don't have a lot of premier item.

The best that we have in terms of valuable commodities are Bugman brews and the multitude amount of dwarven brew available. Not to mention the alcoholic hub of our collection (Like really, if we can get Eonir wine as well, it'll help our trade and reputation since it's not against the Amity trade regulations.).

Aside from that, we're not really swimming in precious resources. Even with the Northern Trident pooled together, we don't have a lot of stuff that can bring in the big dough like silk or spices.
Alcohol of various kinds in addition to Bugman's, lots of guns, cannons, and other weaponry to point that our guns are the most common in Empire/Old World in general, ogres if we are willingly to let them hire themselves out as mercs since we know lots of interest, tons of wood from our efforts to trim back forest, and lots of other finished goods. Ostland has plenty to offer I feel, even if not particularly rare or exotic like spices or silk.

Heh, your mentioning of the Eonir really has me wondering if the Tri-Compact will have impotent rage over us trading with different elves that are independent from the treaty Marienburg made with the high elves.
 
Well now i'm curious, Did anything change in Brettonia after the rampage of the Pillager ? I mean did they "modernise" their knights and men at arms or did they decide to stay the same as ever ?
They have no reason to invest in their navy so the country must have some money to invest.

Nope. Bretonnia is, like, specifically resistant to 'modernizing' as we would term it. When they joined in the Crusades centuries before the current IC time frame, and were joined with the Empire, Tileans, and Estalians, they didn't change overmuch. When they tried to to go overland to Araby, and got overwhelmed, they didn't change things. The ones that remained behind specifically tried to maintain 'bastions' of 'proper' Bretonnian Culture and were the first true major Border Princes. When King Louis the Brave was killed by a massive wave of Chaos, and all the chivalry of Bretonnia failed, and all broke and ran, only to be saved by Repanse de Lyonesse, a peasant woman blessed by The Lady and granted the Dukedom of Lyonesse they didn't change martially or culturally in the longterm. After the Affair of the False Grail they didn't change too much. When Lord Mortkin blasted their butts and utterly ravaged his way across huge swathes of the country in excess of what Gazgan managed, they didn't alter things.

The biggest 'modern' change they went through was in 2471 when the nobles became decadent despots and later on had the growing 'merchant' classes trying to rise up from beneath feudal rule and incited the peasantry to riot on their behalf. Which did not work. In the meantime, literal Endless Errantry Wars against the greenskins in the Border Princes had been done since 2428, only ending in 2488 when a whole whole WHOLE lot of them died at once in Death Pass.

The big change of that event was not them radically altering their tactics, society, or methods.

They just decided to stop constantly throwing their knights into the Errantry Wars, and made them stick closer to home.

Then, in 2500, Louen Leoncoueur, a Grail Knight who appeared in the prime of life despite being in his seventies due to the blessings of the Grail, was crowned King. HIS big change to things was 'hey, let's go BACK to the true chivalry and goodness of knighthood that previous indolent kings have negelected'.

And that's how Bretonnia do.
 
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"Correct," the priest nods again. "Only two such institutions ever existed in the long-term, Baron Henryk's by virtue of the sheer amount of money they could use to stave off witch hunters and the like, and another facility in Middenheim which survived by dint of their usage of magic in battle and little openly elsewhere."
Loopholes ahoy.
 
Nope. Bretonnia is, like, specifically resistant to 'modernizing' as we would term it. When they joined in the Crusades centuries before the current IC time frame, and were joined with the Empire, Tileans, and Estalians, they didn't change overmuch. When they tried to to go overland to Araby, and got overwhelmed, they didn't change things. The ones that remained behind specifically tried to maintain 'bastions' of 'proper' Bretonnian Culture and were the first true major Border Princes. When King Louis the Brave was killed by a massive wave of Chaos, and all the chivalry of Bretonnia failed, and all broke and ran, only to be saved by Repanse de Lyonesse, a peasant woman blessed by The Lady and granted the Dukedom of Lyonesse they didn't change martially or culturally in the longterm. After the Affair of the False Grail they didn't change too much. When Lord Mortkin blasted their butts and utterly ravaged his way across huge swathes of the country in excess of what Gazgan managed, they didn't alter things.

The biggest 'modern' change they went through was in 2471 when the nobles became decadent despots and later on had the growing 'merchant' classes trying to rise up from beneath feudal rule and incited the peasantry to riot on their behalf. Which did not work. In the meantime, literal Endless Errantry Wars against the greenskins in the Border Princes had been done since 2428, only ending in 2488 when a whole whole WHOLE lot of them died at once in Death Pass.

The big change of that event was not them radically altering their tactics, society, or methods.

They just decided to stop constantly throwing their knights into the Errantry Wars, and made them stick closer to home.

Then, in 2500, Louen Leoncoueur, a Grail Knight who appeared in the prime of life despite being in his seventies due to the blessings of the Grail, was crowned King. HIS big change to things was 'hey, let's go BACK to the true chivalry and goodness of knighthood that previous indolent kings have negelected'.

And that's how Bretonnia do.

Thank for the quick response Torroar!
This is something i found sad about Brettonia, they have paragon of human virtue but they just never adapt, they are not as bad as Tilea or Estalia ( who can't even be considered country) but like good old Darwin said " "It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change."
And Brettonia is less adaptable to change then the DWARFS!
 
This is something i found sad about Brettonia, they have paragon of human virtue but they just never adapt, they are not as bad as Tilea or Estalia ( who can't even be considered country) but like good old Darwin said " "It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change."
And Brettonia is less adaptable to change then the DWARFS!
But this is Warhammer. And there's more than one way to survive than just racing to guns as fast as possible. It's surprisingly accurate in Fantasy as it is in 40k, but there is something of a narrative "theme" for dealing with Gods, magic, and other otherworldly source of benefits.

Power Does Not Come Without Sacrifice.

The Knights of Brettonia swear Tolkien-esque oaths of Chivalry, and for keeping this feudal society and seemingly ignorant system of warfare in place, The Lady blesses those Worthy knights with the ability to surpass the greatest blade masters in skill, their armor to turn bullets, cannonballs, and even magic, and their charges to spear through dozens of ranks of hulking monsters. And even without those blessings you still have a not insignificant number of the population training their entire lives to be elite mounted warriors.

That's the boon they got for their price. They can't live or fight any other way. But they can make that way kick everybody else's ass.
 
Thank for the quick response Torroar!
This is something i found sad about Brettonia, they have paragon of human virtue but they just never adapt, they are not as bad as Tilea or Estalia ( who can't even be considered country) but like good old Darwin said " "It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change."
And Brettonia is less adaptable to change then the DWARFS!
Darwin never said that, which is just as well, because it's wrong. ;) It's more the species best adapted to its environment - and Bretonnia seems to have found a pretty good adaptation and stuck to it so far. I imagine it's kinda like crocodiles IRL, which haven't changed much in the past hundred million years (or so the archaeologists say).
 
@torroar, where is Ostland collecting their black dye for soldier uniforms from? And where is Ostermark getting their purple dye from?

You didn't answer this question. Black is used by Sylvania and Averland. This wouldn't be a mystery if Sylvania isn't a death area of isolationist people. The implication being that Sylvania had a internal source of black dye.

Black dye could be a resource of Ostland, so where is Ostland getting black cloth for their soldiers? Black sheep?
 
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I've deliberately kept stuff like that abstracted, my dude. A major source was never given, only things like the images in the links below:

Ostland_Uniforms-01.png (607×647) (nocookie.net)

Ostermark_Uniforms-01.png (602×641) (nocookie.net)

From the Uniform's Page of the wiki.

It's explicitly noted purple dye is hard, so it's more difficult to do than others for Ostermark. Mention of difficulties in getting black dye are not made for Ostland or Stirland. They get it because they have it. That's as far as it has gone.

EDIT:

Here, I'll come up with it literally right now, and there will be no more explanations than what I'll give, right this instant, here we go: tannins and iron and some water = black, maybe some parts of Ostland plant life have extra tannins because Mallus and not Earth. Possibly some kind of nuts or mushrooms or whatevers that grow in Ostermark which can help make purple dye but is still hard to get/find/make.

There, done.
 
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where is Ostland collecting their black dye for soldier uniforms from? And where is Ostermark getting their purple dye from?
I'll be totally honest, I have no idea why this is a super important question in general. Not meant as an insult, I just don't understand where you are going with this. Its kinda nuts to expect the GM to have an explanation for every little thing so some willing suspension of disbelief is needed when you are playing with a high fantasy setting, or else we'd be stuck all the time on how the Empire functions well at all.
 
Torroar actually said he would answer this (as in, make something up or say that he won't be commenting further as its kinda useless) but forgot about it because he is going through Stuff. Lets not be angry at Marlin for being meticulous and wanting to know stuff, i am pretty sure wanting this kind of info and making the "differences from last update" list are part of the same "attention to detail" quirk. And i really appreciate those.
 
Alcohol of various kinds in addition to Bugman's, lots of guns, cannons, and other weaponry to point that our guns are the most common in Empire/Old World in general, ogres if we are willingly to let them hire themselves out as mercs since we know lots of interest, tons of wood from our efforts to trim back forest, and lots of other finished goods. Ostland has plenty to offer I feel, even if not particularly rare or exotic like spices or silk.

Heh, your mentioning of the Eonir really has me wondering if the Tri-Compact will have impotent rage over us trading with different elves that are independent from the treaty Marienburg made with the high elves.

It's frankly a market avenue that I really want after the Secret War after math.

Hopefully, our diplo with Eonir continues and we'll finally get our hands on it. I also wouldn't mind if Stephan secures that trade deal since it'll still benefit us as whole.
 
Plz we all know that ostland sheep are just goth AF from all the morr stuff in the province and have naturally developed black wool. Half our soldiers paint their nails black and part their hair to one side and go to punk lute shows in a halflings tavern.

It's not a phase @torroar ! (This is my headcanon and you will not change my mind on the influence of the punk goth morrites in the province has had on the impressionable youth)
 
I'll be totally honest, I have no idea why this is a super important question in general. Not meant as an insult, I just don't understand where you are going with this. Its kinda nuts to expect the GM to have an explanation for every little thing so some willing suspension of disbelief is needed when you are playing with a high fantasy setting, or else we'd be stuck all the time on how the Empire functions well at all.
Exports. That's the direction I was going in for black cloth/dye.

Black dye likely has other sources in the empire so it isn't that valuable as a commercial product. The oddity of Sylvania having black with its cultural isolationist background is an oddity. How does the isolationist province have black inside a death province? Sheep? ugghhhh, maybe. A local product, possibly. Ostland is kinda similar to Sylvania, so maybe some unique plant to the areas, or is it an export Ostland is paying for from Averland? Where is the source?

It's no different a question than seeking ways to exploit Marienburg, or how to further profit from more weapon sales by taking advantage of others. Only this time it's does Ostland have a unique product in black dye? The source is relatively simple and in sufficient quantity, so nope (and the possible already being traded issue).

Edit: And why the answer was important to me was because black cloth was expensive in the middle ages. From what the internet tells me, anyway. Ostland, a poor province in the empire, has access to a rl product that is not exactly super easy to naturally get, without a SCIENCE shortcut, I assumed. Unless Ostland has a easy way to acquire black dye, or black cloth.
 
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The Order of the Winter Throne is a radical sect of the Cult of Ulric that is extremely controversial within the Cult. They think that Ulric's smiting of the world is imminent, and that to prepare people for the super winter that will thusly occur, they should make it much harder for people to survive in the North to 'train' them. They do this by going around in the north of the Empire, Kislev, and a few spots in Norsca, and burning down grain silos and supply stores in the night so that people learn to 'survive' better in the dead of winter.
That's not exactly it. Tome of Salvation says there are some extremists within the order that do what you describe, but the normal part of the Order just teaches that there's gonna be an Evernacht and that Winter is training for it. It's not an entire sanctioned order of silo-burners.
 
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That's not exactly it. Tome of Salvation says there are some extremists within the order that do what you describe, but the normal part of the Order just teaches that there's gonna be an Evernnacht and that Winter is training for it. It's not an entire sanctioned order of silo-burners.
It's his quest, his finagling of the stuff that can be bizarre or contradictory.
 
Exports. That's the direction I was going in for black cloth/dye.
Fair enough, but as said unlike RL dyes are apparently common enough in Empire and likely already traded and such like GM said using local plantlife and such. Plenty of other trading and income opportunities most likely later, don't worry about that. Like whaling and such we have been talking about, the charcoal industry we have yet to take advantage of, potentially salt if deemed worth effort, etc.

Once again, I never meant insult I was just honestly curious and to be fair it did sound like you were annoying the GM a little.

Anyway at this point we have plenty of options to explore so its not like we are lacking for options, especially if GM does give us chance to get access to rubber and coffee later on through trade. Unlikely to make a whole bunch mind you, but maybe we can make a small stable amount due to Jade Wizards in our employ helping growing process out like they did with elf apples.
 
I'll be totally honest, I have no idea why this is a super important question in general. Not meant as an insult, I just don't understand where you are going with this. Its kinda nuts to expect the GM to have an explanation for every little thing so some willing suspension of disbelief is needed when you are playing with a high fantasy setting, or else we'd be stuck all the time on how the Empire functions well at all.
Black dyed clothes, in Earth's history, had great value as getting black to set into clothes as opposed to merely a very dark color with contrasting tinting was very difficult. This isn't due to black being an inherently difficult color to make but rather that the amount of time needed to actually dye the clothes to that color made the cloth dyed that color less resistant to damage and requiring replacement for frequently. If Ostland had access to black dye rather than cheaper approach of "Lots of blue until it's midnight blue, then a touch of red to get rid of the blue tint." that would have some value but it's unlikely that Ostland doesn't just use woad and then some red soil to make their black uniform colors simply due to the volume of fabric needing to be colored.

That said, on Mallus given the number of creatures with blood of myriad colors, literal magic, and the very different approaches to industry it's likely that most "general" dye colors are not as valuable as normally though specific or odd colors like ultramarine and magenta likely do still have value. Any metallic dyes are almost certainly trivialized by the mere existence of the Gold College so the fabrics industry almost assuredly had a crash followed by a boom as the market for metallic dyes fell out from under it while the availability of dyed clothing rocketed up.
 
Thank for the quick response Torroar!
This is something i found sad about Brettonia, they have paragon of human virtue but they just never adapt, they are not as bad as Tilea or Estalia ( who can't even be considered country) but like good old Darwin said " "It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change."
And Brettonia is less adaptable to change then the DWARFS!
Darwin never said that, which is just as well, because it's wrong. ;) It's more the species best adapted to its environment - and Bretonnia seems to have found a pretty good adaptation and stuck to it so far. I imagine it's kinda like crocodiles IRL, which haven't changed much in the past hundred million years (or so the archaeologists say).
Actual Darwin: "One general law, leading to the advancement of all organic beings, namely, multiply, vary, let the strongest live and the weakest die."

The Bretonnian knight is essentially bred from a bloodline, with the errantry and general lifestyle serving as a form of natural selection and the Lady tipping the scales in favour of certain characteristics with her blessings.

Bretonnia isn't trying to adapt to its environment. Bretonnia tries to be the environment.
 
he won't be commenting further as its kinda useless

This is sort of the route I was taking, actually. I was satisfied with that. But the question was asked, again, so I made something up.

The issue at hand is that while yes, there are things like the Dyers Guild for the dwarfs, and places known for it, the sheer breadth of the Empire and the uniforms and the Cults make things a bit funky, a lot of the time, yes? Shallyans almost always are dressed in whites and pale blues and a couple of others. The ENTIRE Cult of Morr, which is spread throughout the entire Old World, from acolytes to laymen to priests all wear head to toe black. All the militias and armies of Stirland have major black features, and Ostland has significant amounts of black as well. It's noted that purple is specifically hard, which is why the actual amount of purple in Ostermark uniforms varies.

I just uh...kinda of didn't want to think too hard about it, because GW clearly didn't, and sometimes I'm fine with filling in the worldbuilding gaps, yes. But you guys gotta realize, goddang there are a lotta them holes and gaps sometimes, you know? And I am but one man with a shovel and some dirt, not a full on cement mixer or blacktop maintenance crew. Bad of me, sure, dye is a major trade good in this era, obviously, I was just kinda...hoping to not have to think to hard on it when there's the everything else going on in-quest. I uh, I'll try to come up with more concrete dye stuff soon, I guess. Sorry.

The existence of tannis in plant life is a real thing, and with a bit of iron rust and some water is a real way to get black dye, by the way. So, you know, maybe it'll be stuff like that? Some kinda...purple dye giving snails that live in the swamps of Ostermark...I'll need to think a bit more on other things too.

That's not exactly it. Tome of Salvation says there are some extremists within the order that do what you describe, but the normal part of the Order just teaches that there's gonna be an Evernacht and that Winter is training for it. It's not an entire sanctioned order of silo-burners.

The Tome of Salvation is also technically 'current' to the year 2522, not 2342. The Order of the Winter Throne was founded centuries before that point, and was only controversially taken into the Cult properly in 1975...specifically by the original founder's grandson who had managed to become Ar-Ulric by that point. The Celibate Restrictions enacted upon the Cult show that the Cult itself is not somehow magically immune from intrigues and political maneuvering which is not necessarily beneficial to the greater Cult. The Era of Three Emperors was a dire time for all, and I do not find it inconceivable that in such chaos, many were able to think that the Evernacht is extremely eminent, therefore leading to more doing their business here and there. Consider also that I recently mentioned Olric, a Norscan savage God with noted similarities to Ulric, only being far more bloodthirsty, savage, and bestial as befitting a God that the Norscans would worship. The nature of the actual Throne of the Snow King within Norsca is deliberately unclear, much like the Secret of the Dark Maiden with regards to the Cult of Myrmidia. In the time of Magnus the Pious, all the Cults were revitalized, the Empire was rejoined, and the anarchy died out, which restricted several normal behaviors - such as the constant political infighting and intrigue messing around.

The whole small blurb with Magnus being served by the former top Khaine assassin in the entire Empire as a maid, having rejected Khaine, and all that? Was after the cultists sent her after Magnus specifically because of such major anarchy reduction.

In the modern times, sure, the extremists are the ones who do things on the fringes, while the majority remain as ascetics in their isolated monasteries preparing for Evernacht.

But Cults and even just orders somewhat related to the Cults or religious organizations in general can change radically not just in the span of a few centuries, but of a few years. A single generation. Etc. And can do things wholly out of stated source text, on occasion, because the world itself is not static, and things can change. The Holders of the Shore. The Knights of Margritta. The Yellow Fang. The radically altered Cult of Morr. Slaaneshi Vylrmarist. The now plural Flames of Ulric. The Reforged Hammers. A more developed and active Quinsberry Lodge. And so on.
 
The whole small blurb with Magnus being served by the former top Khaine assassin in the entire Empire as a maid, having rejected Khaine, and all that? Was after the cultists sent her after Magnus specifically because of such major anarchy reduction.
Wait, was the former Khainite maid actual canon by GW that you filled in or was she completely an OC character?
 
Wait, was the former Khainite maid actual canon by GW that you filled in or was she completely an OC character?

She is an OC. I have discussed her before.

Yeah. Could have been the head of the Cult of Khaine in the Empire. Magnus convinced her otherwise. Her name is Leah, she is one of the deadliest killers in the Old World, she is directly responsible for grievous harm and damage dealt to the Cult of Khaine afterwards, and she publicly works as a maid in the Imperial Palace in Nuln. She has been in scenes involving servants that Frederick has been present in, but never pointed out or described, because that's rather the point. In point of fact, Frederick does not even know that she exists, or what other positions she might hold than her demure public one in the ongoing functioning of the Empire and service to Magnus. And as such, outside of small blips like the above, she is IC a totally invisible entity that is nonetheless nominally Imperial-aligned. Which goes back to the first post of the entire thread, talking about how the world is bigger than just the player faction and what they can directly see.

It's why I, personally, do not recommend skimming the things I post. Cause, like. There's stuff, man. There's stuff that might only be a few paragraphs or even just a few sentences long, but they can definitely matter to the wider IC world.

GW did not, in fact, really develop the Era of Magnus beyond a few extremely sweeping paragraphs which spoke extremely generally about things he did/accomplished, and occasional mentions later on by later histories and other characters who mentioned that he really was a pretty great guy. Aside from a few canon characters here and there, the vast majority of everyone here is an OC.
 
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This is possibly a very silly question, but I was curious could humans get into worshipping and possibly even getting divine magic/gifts from elf gods? We know the elves have a much more practical relationship with their gods after all, and assuming the elf version of Khaine is just the human worshipped version would imply its totally possible.

Heck, humans are now worshipping Esmerald who is a halfling god and Norscans who are worshipping Old Ones like Lizardmen. The only gods humans possibly couldn't worship or gain something from is the dwarf gods and that is likely due to ancestor aspect to it/actual dwarfs wouldn't approve.

Would it be too crazy to look into elf gods and see if humans can get in on them? I mean, they have a god of magic after all which would likely appeal to most of wizards and such at the very least.
 
This is possibly a very silly question, but I was curious could humans get into worshipping and possibly even getting divine magic/gifts from elf gods? We know the elves have a much more practical relationship with their gods after all, and assuming the elf version of Khaine is just the human worshipped version would imply its totally possible.

Heck, humans are now worshipping Esmerald who is a halfling god and Norscans who are worshipping Old Ones like Lizardmen. The only gods humans possibly couldn't worship or gain something from is the dwarf gods and that is likely due to ancestor aspect to it/actual dwarfs wouldn't approve.

Would it be too crazy to look into elf gods and see if humans can get in on them? I mean, they have a god of magic after all which would likely appeal to most of wizards and such at the very least.
Isn´t the Lady of the Bretonnians Lileath? If so the human can definitely get divine gifts from elven goddesses...
 
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