Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

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Fuckboi345 said:
Empire hadn't really existed as a united entity until very recently.
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Or ever really, since the provinces have always been more extremely closely allied countries, instead of states within one country. The Empire has never been federated enough to have things like common currency or laws. This both by design and active enforcement by the Elector Counts.
 
Jack_Trade said:
Or ever really, since the provinces have always been more extremely closely allied countries, instead of states within one country. The Empire has never been federated enough to have things like common currency or laws. This both by design and active enforcement by the Elector Counts.
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I mean, a certain level of decentralization to prevent Chaos cults from spreading through an organization with long reach makes sense. The measurement thing seems more of a side effect than an intentional part of that though.
 
Fuckboi345 said:
That shows when and how he died, which was after the war during the failed first attempt at retaking Salkalten. It doesn't say anything as to whether or not he fought in the Great War. Sorry if I'm acting like a pedantic asshole about this, but it's something I've been curious about for awhile.
Also, if anyone's still wondering about the currency thing, Frederick refers to Ostland's currency as bulls during the Conclave of Zhufbar, which indicates that the Empire's currency is not standardized, which is unsurprising, given that the Empire hadn't really existed as a united entity until very recently.
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Here, a QM post from so long ago (relatively long ago) that might be able to answer your questions about Joseph von Hohenzollern, even though it is about Kattarin. I'm pretty sure the source material had the canon Count of Ostland die in the aid of Kislev during the Great War against Chaos during Magnus's reign.

torroar said:
Part of the issue is that more than the Empire, Kislev got fucked by the Everchosen and his armies. Like, way worse than the Empire itself suffered, at least in terms of directly being brought down by Asavar Kul's Chaos Warriors. The Empire itself largely was falling apart from the sudden explosion of cults and general degeneration of its...everything during the Era of Three Emperors. Praag became the Cursed City, the land was devastated, and Kattarin's own father died at the Gates of Kislev, personally slaughtered by Kul for his defiance and his skull added to the man's spiked pauldrons before Magnus managed to get there - because, well, how demoralizing would it be to see the previously incomperable warrior Tzar Romanov be killed and trophied by the Everchosen himself. Which, well, she watched and saw, fighting at the walls (every resource was being used, conscripts, young ice witches, etc), while Natasha was back in the palaces (with a group of guards and in one of the secret passages which led out of the city) to ensure that at least one Romanov would survive if the worst came to pass and the city fell.

So...she's seen an Everchosen. Gotten, like, real, real close to one. And after he tore her father's head from his shoulders and jammed him down onto his shoulder spikes, he looked up and though the height and all the flurries of snow should have made it impossible, she knows he was looking right up at where she fought above the gates and without a word promised her death.

And then Magnus came! But she'll never forget how a full army of Ostlanders (Thanks, Frederick's dad) and Kislevites got smashed so easily, how Praag fell, and then how there was barely any proper Kislevites able to fight at Kislev itself. It was more the dwarfs of Karaz-a-Karak fighting there that really held it, to be honest.

So the pulks, somewhat able to generally fight the yearly raids, yeah, that's functional.

But fuck if she doesn't remember seeing the legions of Chaos marching right at Kislev, and knowing that too many pulks would be torn entirely apart if they even tried.

Of course, there are issues aplenty regardless with the whole situation, both for and against her. But that's just, like the nature of things. She's the ruler of an entire nation, whereas a not-insignificant number of Imperials are perfectly fine with Frederick staying in Ostland except for when he comes down to fight and defend them. Where his ruling decisions don't affect all of them.
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Ostland, unfortunately due to it's physical position and the circuitous route that Magnus had to take around to get the various loyalties of the Electors and Cults, was one of the last before the 'big fight' that got a visit. But, in truth, Joseph von Hohenzollern never met or even spoke much to Magnus. Because uh, for all his issues with Frederick, he was a Hohenzollern, and canon already offers a perfectly good place for me to have slot him into. Behold! The power of this fully operational GM/Lore Wiki-Quote-Quest-Canon-Welder-Battlestation!

Warhammer Wiki Says said:
As winter dug into the northlands, the Chaos host marched south. This invasion force was spotted by Kislevite outriders who quickly raised the alarm. Reinforced by the soldiers of the Elector Count of Ostland, the entire army of Kislev moved north to intercept them without delay. The Kislevites fought like maddened bears, but the ironclad infantry regiments at the heart of the Chaos host proved nigh unstoppable. Nonetheless, a cavalry charge from Kislev's Gryphon Legion collapsed one enemy flank, and for a moment, hope glimmered in the hearts of men. But soon the skies blackened, and that hope was quickly extinguished. The Shaggoth known as Kholek Suneater stormed into the fray leading a throng of his Dragon Ogre kin, and the Gryphon Legion were scattered before their fury. The Chaos forces renewed their assault, and in the space of an hour, the virgin white snow underfoot was turned into a bloodstained slush strewn with the remains of the Kislev and Ostland soldiery. The dread horde paused only to lay waste to the northern part of the Tzar's territory before moving further south. The surviving Kislevites thought that the raging River Lynsk would force their enemy to cross at the bridges. The Tzar's armies thus prepared to defend them to the last, but Kul's Sorcerers unleashed fell magic, and as they did so, the waters grew thick with blood and froze. Kul's vanguard of Chosen crossed the frozen river in lockstep, thousands of armoured feet crunching upon the hard crust of blood-red ice. The Kislevites were caught from all sides and swiftly butchered. There was now nothing to bar Kul's path to the heardands of Kislev and the teeming city of Praag.
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So...yeah. Before even the Fall of Praag, and thus way before Magnus had gotten to Ostland, an army of Ostland lay dead, and Joseph von Hohenzollern barely survived trudging back to Wulfenburg. Magnus rushed north, was joined by some of the most stubborn/crazy Ostlanders in the military left, but Joseph required time to heal from his wounds. And then he did! And promptly ran up towards Salkalten. You can actually reference the beginning of the quest here as well.

torroar said:
Note: After this post is when we get into the actual turns. But first....meet your PC.

Introduction​

"Yeah, yeah that's me. Frederick von Hohenzollern. Not that I don't appreciate the assistance but why are you here? Shouldn't the military be trying to reclaim the ports?" you ask, lightly hefting your hammer in hand.

She looks down. Hmm. Something is wrong then. Also how did she know who you were? A piece of crackling timber makes your ears twitch. Well. It might have been because the smithy held your name and they had come looking for it directly.

"They…were, my lord."

You frown. Something must be very wrong then.

"Were?"

It comes out in a rush.

"Yes, alongside your father and several of your brothers. But two days ago, we received reports that they had been surrounded. There…were so few survivors. You…are now the Elector Count."

You swallowed heavily as a massive weight seems to crunch itself upon your shoulders.

"That's…no, that's impossible. I-he…they-I'm the tenth son!" you exclaim wildly. "Lucian should have been holding down Wolfenburg, he should be Elector Count even if every single one of my fighting brothers perished in the fight. What about Gertrude? She's older than me by five years, what about her? Is she not in the capital?"

By now you have picked out the telltale sigils of the Witch Hunters on the woman's clothing, but her look of honest regret is foreign to you. People in her profession rarely showed such a thing sincerely.

"I'm sorry my Count, but the Order of the Silver Hammer has failed you."

Your eyes narrow.

"What…are you talking about?"

She does not avert her eyes this time.

"Your sister Gertrude is dead. Lucian is dead. Those of your family within Wulfenburg's walls have been slain. They were found in their rooms…the symbols of Chaos drawn out in their blood upon the walls. You are the last of the Hohenzollern…my Count."

A creeping numbness begins to suffuse you.

"Most of the Order had been dispatched elsewhere in the Empire, we did not think that any would be so brazen to perform such an act so soon after the death of the Everchosen. But while the Emperor rebuilds he has focused in the south, his efforts have not fully reached us. We-,"

"Be quiet," you whisper.

The haft of the hammer creaks as your knuckles turn white from the pressure. Father, dead. The one who sent you away for your own good to a remote village in the middle of the Forest of Shadows…is dead. Gertrude, with her snorting laugh. Lucian, who always had his nose stuck in a book.

All dead. By the hands of Chaos. Magnus the Pious supposedly brought all the God's with him to strike Chaos down. Well they don't look too 'struck down' to you. Your grip tightens further, the other hand curled into such a tight fist that your blood drips from where nails have dug too deep into flesh. If the most Pious Emperor decides to ignore Ostland so be it. Where was Sigmar's blessing in Wulfenburg to protect the rest of your family, those who were never fighters? Or for those who were in the north? Or Ulrics?

"I apologize my Lord, but you are Elector Count now. Many of my Order went to their deaths retrieving the Runefang. It awaits you now in Wulfenburg…your capital," the Witch Hunter murmurs.
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So died Joseph von Hohenzollern, trying to reclaim Salkalten along with several Hohenzollern brothers, who got run down by those same Chaos Knights who you first fought at the very beginning of the quest. Alas, Joseph's wounding before the Battle of Praag meant that, yeah, Magnus never really, uh, met him beyond the once where the delirious Jospeph said 'sure, whatever, you're Emperor, I need a drink, blag' before the physicians put him back to sleep. Then a shit ton of Witch Hunters went and grabbed it back out of Salkalten on a suicide mission to retrieve Brain Wounder before the enemy could do something untoward with it. Most of them died, but they still got it back.

Fuckboi345 said:
I've got a couple of questions if you don't mind @torroar
1. Did Frederick's father fight in the Great War Against Chaos? I assume he did, since Ostland was the first province to lend aid to Kislev against Kul, but wouldn't Magnus have mentioned that when he first met Frederick, or did Magnus not bring that up because he knew that Frederick's relationship with his father was strained at best?
2. Given its upcoming expansion, has Wulfenburg grown enough to be considered one of the "major" cities of the Empire? It's definitely not on the scale of Nuln, Altdorf, or Marienburg. but how does it compare to Middenheim or Talabheim?
3. How are the Bull Warriors seen outside of Ostland? They're obviously numero uno within Ostland, but what kinda reputation do they have outside the province, if they have any at all?
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So!

1. Answered above.
2. It's certainly the largest city in the Trident, that's for sure. Bechafen is second, and Manannsheim is third. And uh, considering Middenheim is one of the first cities of the Empire, I'd argue it's definitely one of the major cities. It's religious importance, historical precedent, etc. is pretty extreme. Talabheim as well due to its own history, age, and importance. In any case, Wulfenburg is not yet at the scale of Altdorf or Nuln or Marienburg, but it's a bit past Talabheim and Middenheim. This is aided due to the enormous influx of halfling populations, Estalian refugees who have settled in, ogres, and dwarfs from the Goldeneye Throng and beyond.
3. A reasonably competent if somewhat oddball Knightly Order, pretty much. Not as good as the Black Bears/White Wolves/Knights of the Everlasting Light/ETC. depending on which province you're from and whose asking, you know?
 
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torroar said:
Magnus never really, uh, met him beyond the once where the delirious Jospeph said 'sure, whatever, you're Emperor, I need a drink, blag' before the physicians put him back to sleep.
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Now that you brought it up, torroar, I'm also kinda curious about Joseph as an elector count. I mean, just how much is his ck2 stats? Any particular skills or deeds? Any notable traits he has? And why did he send Fred to the Forest of Shadows anyway? With Zachs around, that seems like the very opposite of protection.

Obviously, Fred is the better lord in comparison because he's the PC and as a past character you'd probably never thought of Joseph as a character, but still.
 
taovkool said:
And why did he send Fred to the Forest of Shadows anyway? With Zachs around, that seems like the very opposite of protection.
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I think he sent Fred into the Forest because Fred was far too blunt in discovering how the world worked and offended quite a few nobles. Zach was seen as more of a nebulous threat I think; akin to a glacier that consumed the land every few generations rather than someone you might bump into in the wrong part of the land.
 
TheWiseTomato said:
I think he sent Fred into the Forest because Fred was far too blunt in discovering how the world worked and offended quite a few nobles. Zach was seen as more of a nebulous threat I think; akin to a glacier that consumed the land every few generations rather than someone you might bump into in the wrong part of the land.
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yeah, Zach wasn't all that active

until he get reminded too much of his brother because of Fred and then boom, come into the castle and kill one of the kid

he went 0 to 9000 pretty quick
 
Joseph von Hohenzollern, Frederick's Father
  • Informational
    • Joseph von Hohenzollern, hmm. Well, he grew up as an independent Count, to the point that he referred to himself far more as the Prince of Ostland than as 'Elector Count' due to the whole growing up in the Era of Three Emperors thing. Occasionally he'd make motions toward supporting one of the Emperors over another, but Ostland was backwater enough that it never amounted to them demanding much or giving much back in return. He was, however, staunchly Sigmarite in a province full of Ulricans, largely as a result of associating with the Cult who actually spent time working him politically and financially. For the aid given, he held to the Cult pretty well, and could not brook insults to them. Especially from his family. A man of brutal piety, Frederick insulting Sigmar as he did as a child was enough for him to banish him, and he was such a spare that he did not spare much thought to him after sending him to Jegow. Hell of a strong statement, after all. Reasonable diplomatically, to be honest. Did not rock the boat much, and managed to keep Ostland from being swamped by any of the claimant Emperor's demands to the point of, like, harming Ostland financially, manpower-wise, etc.

    Nor was he an idiot. Just about average, to be honest, in terms of intelligence. He saw the world as it was, and decided that not much needed to change about it. They'd fight the Norscans and greenskins and beastmen forever, and they'd hold out forever, and one day he would die in battle as a result. But the province as a whole would continue.

    Unfortunately, he did not have a particularly high intrigue, and as noted in the Introduction the Witch Hunters did not serve him super well, but the cult was one of the hardier and better equipped ones. As expected of a cult who dared to make its home within the freaking founding place of the Order of the Silver Hammer. Then again, they were somewhat benign (as benign as a Cult of Chaos can be) and were content with slow moves, slowly isolating the province, the Hohenzollern family, etc. But then an Everchosen came knocking, and the Dark Gods said nut up or shut up, and they decided 'suicidal attempt at stripping an entire Elector Count family root and stem is a go!' And damn near succeeded. Only Frederick's absolute isolation in Jegow saved him from them.

    If there was one thing that Joseph was very good at, it was fighting. He was primarily a cavalry fighter, in contrast to the footman sort of thing that Frederick started as. Joseph was fond of the lance and cavalry hammer, plus was no slouch with Brain Wounder either. So, he rode north to help Kislev, and then barely rode back with a belly that had nearly been split open and festering wounds. Then he recovered from them somewhat and drove into the Everchosen Remnants at Salkalten, and happened to die there.

    He loved his wife, and she loved him, though they quarreled somewhat over Frederick's banishment, and the distant way in which he raised the rest of their children beyond his son and primary heir. But honestly, there have always been emotionally distant fathers in the world, and will be in the future. Joseph happened to be one of them. His last thoughts were of his family, but in a nebulous way, his wife and heir taking prominence and the rest being a smoky ephemeral thing. Frederick didn't really feature at all, because he had barely been raised a noble before his banishment, and his 'allowance' was quite low indeed because Joseph didn't want to spend too much coin. Then Frederick became a blacksmith, further separating him, marking him as more of a commoner, and, well, Joseph saw little need to call him back. The chances of Zacharias going after him specifically were spectacularly low, because as was noted by the tomato, just because everyone lived in mortal terror doesn't mean they thought the vampire overlord himself would come after them.

    But yeah, that was Joseph. Hardliner in piety, reasonable in diplomacy and stewardship, good in martial, low in intrigue, and absolute average in learning.
     
  • Informational
    • torroar said:
    Joseph von Hohenzollern, hmm. Well, he grew up as an independent Count, to the point that he referred to himself far more as the Prince of Ostland than as 'Elector Count' due to the whole growing up in the Era of Three Emperors thing. Occasionally he'd make motions toward supporting one of the Emperors over another, but Ostland was backwater enough that it never amounted to them demanding much or giving much back in return. He was, however, staunchly Sigmarite in a province full of Ulricans, largely as a result of associating with the Cult who actually spent time working him politically and financially. For the aid given, he held to the Cult pretty well, and could not brook insults to them. Especially from his family. A man of brutal piety, Frederick insulting Sigmar as he did as a child was enough for him to banish him, and he was such a spare that he did not spare much thought to him after sending him to Jegow. Hell of a strong statement, after all. Reasonable diplomatically, to be honest. Did not rock the boat much, and managed to keep Ostland from being swamped by any of the claimant Emperor's demands to the point of, like, harming Ostland financially, manpower-wise, etc.

    Nor was he an idiot. Just about average, to be honest, in terms of intelligence. He saw the world as it was, and decided that not much needed to change about it. They'd fight the Norscans and greenskins and beastmen forever, and they'd hold out forever, and one day he would die in battle as a result. But the province as a whole would continue.

    Unfortunately, he did not have a particularly high intrigue, and as noted in the Introduction the Witch Hunters did not serve him super well, but the cult was one of the hardier and better equipped ones. As expected of a cult who dared to make its home within the freaking founding place of the Order of the Silver Hammer. Then again, they were somewhat benign (as benign as a Cult of Chaos can be) and were content with slow moves, slowly isolating the province, the Hohenzollern family, etc. But then an Everchosen came knocking, and the Dark Gods said nut up or shut up, and they decided 'suicidal attempt at stripping an entire Elector Count family root and stem is a go!' And damn near succeeded. Only Frederick's absolute isolation in Jegow saved him from them.

    If there was one thing that Joseph was very good at, it was fighting. He was primarily a cavalry fighter, in contrast to the footman sort of thing that Frederick started as. Joseph was fond of the lance and cavalry hammer, plus was no slouch with Brain Wounder either. So, he rode north to help Kislev, and then barely rode back with a belly that had nearly been split open and festering wounds. Then he recovered from them somewhat and drove into the Everchosen Remnants at Salkalten, and happened to die there.

    He loved his wife, and she loved him, though they quarreled somewhat over Frederick's banishment, and the distant way in which he raised the rest of their children beyond his son and primary heir. But honestly, there have always been emotionally distant fathers in the world, and will be in the future. Joseph happened to be one of them. His last thoughts were of his family, but in a nebulous way, his wife and heir taking prominence and the rest being a smoky ephemeral thing. Frederick didn't really feature at all, because he had barely been raised a noble before his banishment, and his 'allowance' was quite low indeed because Joseph didn't want to spend too much coin. Then Frederick became a blacksmith, further separating him, marking him as more of a commoner, and, well, Joseph saw little need to call him back. The chances of Zacharias going after him specifically were spectacularly low, because as was noted by the tomato, just because everyone lived in mortal terror doesn't mean they thought the vampire overlord himself would come after them.

    But yeah, that was Joseph. Hardliner in piety, reasonable in diplomacy and stewardship, good in martial, low in intrigue, and absolute average in learning.
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    soo

    how would he feel about Fred right now

    would he be proud or something else ?
     
    torroar said:
    If I had to crush it down into a single emotion, it'd probably be...confusion? Yeah, confusion. At how his nothing exile son turned out to become worth anything at all.
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    Understandable, we went from low piety to being blessed by Sigmar. As a piety man, he prob got hella confused on how we developed to that.

    Edit: And the not burning at a stake thing. That was hillarious and amazing.
     
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    Restalaan said:
    Understandable, we went from low piety to being blessed by Sigmar. As a piety man, he prob got hella confused on how we developed to that.
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    combat

    i think we just throw Fred through enough grinder that he just have to develop some level of faith

    you don't went through that many near/actual death experience with out finding some faith in the being above
     
    Torroar you are a monster you know that? By bringing up this interesting info and quoting the very start of the quest you have hit my nostalgia button for the quest and now I need to re-read the entire quest, except for the mountain but that's because I have read the mountain exploits so many times already.

    I'm going to enjoy this trip but it will be a long one.
     
    torroar said:
    If I had to crush it down into a single emotion, it'd probably be...confusion? Yeah, confusion. At how his nothing exile son turned out to become worth anything at all.
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    honestly, if some chaos bullshit caused frederick and joseph to see each other now, they probably wouldnt recognize each other
     
    I think it is fair to say that Freddy is such a black sheep that had any of his family lived long enough to see him today they would all be confused on far he has come and stuff he has done.
     
    Zrayz10 said:
    Hey @torroar i know you said that if you did your vampire quest that Luthor Harkon was too crazy to be a playable character. What about the captain of the dread fleet Noctilus?

    Noctilus
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    ...I am aware of Noctilus, my dude. [just recently talked about loving TWW2, so...I know about all the Vampire Pirates? Also know about Dreadfleet. Have for some time]. And...no, I wouldn't do him either. These are already fully established characters. I wouldn't do a greenskin quest with Grimgor, an elf quest with Finubar, a dwarf quest with Thorgrim, a vampire quest with Mannfred/Vlad/Konrad/Noctilus/Luthor/Zacharias/Harkon/Neferata, or a tomb king's quest with Settra/Khalida/Phar, or a dark elf quest with Morathi/Malekith/Malus.

    Nurgle said:
    @torrar what would Fredrick mom think of what has happen to him and what he has done?
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    She'd be proud, probably. Worried constantly, but proud, I think. For certain things. Less so for others.
     
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    SaltyWaffles said:
    8) Since we now have an increased incentive for better roads (because of the cyclers), perhaps we could get research options into methods for producing better roads, and invent the King Road Drag? Given how utterly simple and easy to produce such a design would be, it should be within our capabilities.
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    Huh, we could have Ogres doing that. Not even needing a horse or donkey and a cart. An Ogre could manage to pull that sort of thing.


    ... Hmmmm... Thinking about Ogres, and...

    Hey, how dangerous are the Mountains in Ostland? I mean, rhetorical question, yeah. We've been settling them with men and forts and so on. But. How are the Ogres doing there? Can Ogres settle and live there happily and comfortably? Possibly in those very same human settlements because we probably don't want them just living on their own, in isolated places. But it occurs to me that Ogres could probably defend themselves in a mountainous environment better than humans can.

    So are we having some of our Ogre populations settling in the parts of our land that are near forests and in the mountains? Or are Ogres cityfolk (or maybe they just stay in a city for as long as it takes to learn at the Greatbellow Academy, before going off elsewhere) or farm-dwellers?

    Where do our Ogres tend to cluster around and go for, in Ostland? By the Greatbellow Academy? In various farms? Near, or even in, forests? On or by the mountains?
     
    Many of them are in wolfenburg. Since it's the most racially mixed and accepting settlement in ostland. As 50% of the ogres are taalites they probably live in the forests or in rural farms. The rest are probably spread out through ostland. I would expect quite a few to live in the mountains as we built the esmeralda kitchens there, and they come from mountains originally.
     
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