@torroar does Freddy have any magical artifacts inside his family vaults, or treasure chambers?

Freddy has been established to be part of the Hohenzollern family of Ostland, and that family has been established to be part of Ostland for pretty much since the time Sigmar was emperor.

I know we have Brain Wounder, the legendary runefang of Ostland, but is there anything else the Hohenzollern family picked up in the last few thousand years, or is the vault completely empty of any magical artifacts apart from the ones Freddy and his family picked up during Freddy's time as Elector Count?
 
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@torroar does Freddy have any magical artifacts inside his family vaults, or treasure chambers?

Freddy has been established to be part of the Hohenzollern family of Ostland, and that family has been established to be part of Ostland for pretty much since the time Sigmar was emperor.

I know we have Brain Wounder, the legendary runefang of Ostland, but is there anything else the Hohenzollern family picked up in the last few thousand years, or is the vault completely empty of any magical artifacts apart from the ones Freddy picked up during his time as Elector Count?
I think if there were any cool artifacts sitting in our cellar, they'd have come up by now.
 
Myeah. It would have been brought up, yes. The Dragonbow of Ostland, as it is known in canon, was found in an abandoned elven colony, or so it is said. You haven't been scouring any of those lately, nor have any of your children...so, that ain't a thing either.

Plus, like, there are highly likely very few 'magical artifacts' held openly by any Imperial in general at this point. Because, uh, magic is very recent in the Empire? Yeah? In terms of acceptance at least? Any major 'artifacts' that aren't dwarf runeworks would be of a holy nature, and would thus likely be remanded to the cults.

Sorry.
 
Myeah. It would have been brought up, yes. The Dragonbow of Ostland, as it is known in canon, was found in an abandoned elven colony, or so it is said. You haven't been scouring any of those lately, nor have any of your children...so, that ain't a thing either.

Plus, like, there are highly likely very few 'magical artifacts' held openly by any Imperial in general at this point. Because, uh, magic is very recent in the Empire? Yeah? In terms of acceptance at least? Any major 'artifacts' that aren't dwarf runeworks would be of a holy nature, and would thus likely be remanded to the cults.

Sorry.
Ah, well, it was a long shot anyway. Ostland has historically been one of the poorer provinces in the canon. And like you said magical artifacts wouldn't see much use because of 'magic is bad' stigma. I just figured that with a few thousand years the Ostland counts would have found something, or been handed a magical or religious artifact bribe by an emperor by now. And as far as I know, Freddy never actually looked through his family's things for anything that might be useful in all the years he has been in charge. The law reforms left by Freddy's father, and most of Freddy's ancestors, came as a bit of a surprise to me when the first time I heard about them was during Freddy's law reform personal action.

Well that was a flop, anyway. Complete flop, good to know there isn't a magical artifact leftover that nobody mentioned in all these years.

Urgdug's farm, though. The give the ogre a farm thing Urgdug was promised so long ago. That's been done by now, right?
 
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A super genius who is just outright better than other ogres... Honestly i think someone once called him "Ogre Sigmar" at one point, and while i don't know if i would go quite that far... it isn't totally off the mark either.
We can't call him Ogre Sigmar until he's conquered/united the Mountains of Mourne in the Empire's name. ;)


This is a joke attempting to conquer/unite the Mountains of Mourne would be a monumentally stupid idea. I shouldn't have to say this but I am in case someone doesn't get it's a joke.
 
2. Ah, no, not right now. The steam engine explosion stuff from the Doomspheres are not the same thing as flintlocks, much less wheellocks. At the moment you've got matchlocks, and you'll notice that most of the time (Anna) was doing using them it required aid from Sam to hand her loaded and lit matchlock rifles and such. Other times, they've been kept on seriously short fuses when individual characters have been using them, kept dry and treated to be as flammable as possible. Dangerous, but thems the breaks. ATM, you've got certain improvements to the matchlocks, alchemical treatments to the matches, little fiddly bits to make lighting them easier, etc.
Actually, wheellock mechanisms are really old. There's a decree written by a king in the 1500s banning the production/purchasing of wheellocks by a certain province (can't remember the exact details). And wheellocks were basically always used by cavalry until the proliferation of flintlock mechanisms. The reason they weren't standard is cost--they were a LOT more expensive to make than matchlocks until much later on. Obviously, given that we can easily mass produce Doomspheres and Deathspinners, wheellock mechanisms are easy.

My point with the Doomspheres is that they're so much more complex and advanced than flintlock mechanisms.
Also, the reason flintlock mechanisms took as long as they did to proliferate was mainly cost and refinement.

There's little worry about flintlocks being too great a technology jump--while they make the reloading process a bit easier, the main benefits of flintlocks/wheellocks is that you don't have to deal with lighting something on fire and keeping it on fire for the entire time you want to be ready to shoot. Well, that, and the ability to reliably use guns in the rain.

It's the jump to percussion caps that really get things going. Even paper cartridges have lots of problems involved (though they are a substantial improvement over the previous loading method), and without the ability to mass produce primer and metallic cartridges, you won't get anything like the Lebel.

3. Possibly! Right now they're busying themselves with setting themselves up as authorities in the sciences n'such, but since you've just gotten them to come into the province to examine the Ironblaster...well, there's opportunity there.
Is the possibility of using Gold Wizards to help forge better-than-steel armor and weapons feasible (if not in the next few years, maybe a bit further down the line)? I mean, if Alexandra's idea for creating this very thing, but with Ice Magic, is possible, I can't see how doing the same with wizards specializing in metal would be harder (if anything, I'd expect it to be easier). Even better if we could get some priests from Sigmar, Ulric, etc, to further enhance/bless said gear in the forging process.

4. Ah, hmm. Well, I'm trying not to give spoilers, but...barring my capacity to pump out 2 different interludes in the next short while...guh. I'll say this. She will not be doing that, unfortunately. Coming to Ostland for that, I mean. The books'll certainly still be a thing. She's got 2 different sets, 1 for humans, 1 for dwarfs. Skaven being skaven or just subterranean beastmen, being a major sticking point.
Wait, how can she make a chronicling of the campaign without interviewing anyone from one of the main armies involved? Or one of its biggest stars? That's very hard to believe.

Is the whole "skaven or subterranean beastmen" thing really that big of a issue? What's the deal with that anyway?

6. Now this is something that I've been considering, certainly. But we'll see, yeah? I don't know if more ogre troop'll quite work, explosives being a bit fiddly after all, but human grenadiers are a thing.
It's a hell of a lot easier to deal with than loading cannons one-handed, that's for certain. Especially if each ogre grenadier has a human by his/her side to light the fuses.

9. Honestly, I don't know about this one. You were right on the general engineering bent currently, but even Frederick's thing was more building off of a bigger boom, not necessarily going for a sorta...repeater crossbow/bow thingy. Cause there are very fast repeater crossbows in WHFB, the Dark Elves've got'em. It's a neat idea, I just don't know if it's something that they'll be making in Ostland.
I could see it being something they think of once they consider the question of something to market to Bretonnia. Because if guns/gunpowder are right out, then something involving bows would be pretty popular...so more dakka for bows!
 
I am curious if at some point an ogre can learn to channel the divine lore of Taal/Rhya once devotion is strong enough. An ogre war priest can be a pretty scary thought after all.
 
Wait, how can she make a chronicling of the campaign without interviewing anyone from one of the main armies involved? Or one of its biggest stars? That's very hard to believe.

Is the whole "skaven or subterranean beastmen" thing really that big of a issue? What's the deal with that anyway?
Abridged version?

The Empire of Man (Sigmar's Empire) believe that Mandred the Skavenslayer killed all the Skaven in the world, and no Skaven exist anymore since around 1111 IC. The Skaven are the only force that decimated the Empire of Man and conquered the Empire of Man (The average Empire citizen is really prideful, so the greatest shame of the Empire being in fact a still existent threat, and not being damaged at all is not great for morale). However, both the Skaven-Under Empire and the ruling leaders of the Empire of Man are in a cold war of sorts with each other ever since Mandred the Skaven Slayer died. This is like the ol 'let us invade Norsca' argument, only this is the 'let us invade the skaven under-empire while every other threat is attacking us soon! I don't know when, but the Norscans will attack us sooon! The beastmen will attack Ostland soon! The dark elves will attack soon!....'.

The complication with Evangeline shouldn't exist, but what do I know? Evangeline swore an oath to record the Karak Ungor campaign to the satisfaction of the dwarves for the consumption of the Empire of Man. This should mean that Evangeline can't lie about the Skaven being an odd kind of Beastman. It also means that however many copies of her chronicle exist each one will include either confirmation Skaven still exist, or it will lie to every member in the human empire while breaking an oath (maybe not breaking an oath if there is room for Evangeline to mislead).

edit: I don't know the definite answer to Evangeline not interviewing the armies of Ostland and Ostermark. I have speculation, like maybe she already got a perspective from those armies, but nothing I am certain is the truth.
 
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Okay then.

Hm, then the Wood Elves might have some great stuff for trading to help arm Taalites and Rhya...ns(?) if this meeting doesn't go too badly. Only the most hardcore Fey would complain about them just for being there, and it's not like the Fey haven't had it amply demonstrated that bad things can happen to Forests if they lose entirely, so they'd probably be willing to stretch that far at least.
IIRC some of the Hierarchs of Taal&Rhya have gotten sufficiently in tune with nature that the Fey kinda stopped fucking with them.
So, has anyone else had thoughts on what the current population and economy of Ostland would "realistically" be like?
Relatively minor adjustments to the cities(30k-ish is roughly 1500s Italian city state IIRC, though that might've been post-plague levels), large amounts of upward adjustments to the number of towns/villages and their populations(8%-15% of the total population living in Urban centres is a more normal guideline to maintain in a pre-industrial revolution era).

Beastmen might push people towards the cities but cities in that era are festering hubs of disease, murder and other things that might lower one's life expectancy. Plus, it's probably a bigger prize for the enemies of mankind.
Also, there are religious reasons(Rural Taal&Rhya versus Urban Myrmidia&Verena) that might keep people from migrating to the cities.
I could see it being something they think of once they consider the question of something to market to Bretonnia. Because if guns/gunpowder are right out, then something involving bows would be pretty popular...so more dakka for bows!
Bretonnia dislikes gunpowder because the Lady of the Lake considers ranged weapons dishonourable, which leads to Bretonnian nobles refusing to wield ranged weapons.

Bretonnian peasants are exempt because they aren't considered to have honour to begin with. But Bretonnian peasants don't tend to have a lot of spending money either.
 
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Abridged version?

The Empire of Man (Sigmar's Empire) believe that Mandred the Skavenslayer killed all the Skaven in the world, and no Skaven exist anymore since around 1111 IC. The Skaven are the only force that decimated the Empire of Man and conquered the Empire of Man (The average Empire citizen is really prideful, so the greatest shame of the Empire being in fact a still existent threat, and not being damaged at all is not great for morale). However, both the Skaven-Under Empire and the ruling leaders of the Empire of Man are in a cold war of sorts with each other ever since Mandred the Skaven Slayer died. This is like the ol 'let us invade Norsca' argument, only this is the 'let us invade the skaven under-empire while every other threat is attacking us soon! I don't know when, but the Norscans will attack us sooon! The beastmen will attack Ostland soon! The dark elves will attack soon!....'.

The complication with Evangeline shouldn't exist, but what do I know? Evangeline swore an oath to record the Karak Ungor campaign to the satisfaction of the dwarves for the consumption of the Empire of Man. This should mean that Evangeline can't lie about the Skaven being an odd kind of Beastman. It also means that however many copies of her chronicle exist each one will include either confirmation Skaven still exist, or it will lie to every member in the human empire while breaking an oath (maybe not breaking an oath if there is room for Evangeline to mislead).

edit: I don't know the definite answer to Evangeline not interviewing the armies of Ostland and Ostermark. I have speculation, like maybe she already got a perspective from those armies, but nothing I am certain is the truth.
There's going to be two versions- one for Dwarfs, one for Men. One mentions the Skaven, the other doesn't.
 
There's going to be two versions- one for Dwarfs, one for Men. One mentions the Skaven, the other doesn't.
The human one mentions Skaven, however they're just underground beastmen.

Is the whole "skaven or subterranean beastmen" thing really that big of a issue? What's the deal with that anyway?
This sort of thing is done for two reasons. First to prevent widespread panic and hysteria upon the revaluation that there is an entire civilization of technologically advanced rat-people literally beneath The Empire's cities. Second to prevent the Skaven from panicking and attempting to conquer the surface realms again.
 
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Actually, wheellock mechanisms are really old. There's a decree written by a king in the 1500s banning the production/purchasing of wheellocks by a certain province (can't remember the exact details). And wheellocks were basically always used by cavalry until the proliferation of flintlock mechanisms. The reason they weren't standard is cost--they were a LOT more expensive to make than matchlocks until much later on. Obviously, given that we can easily mass produce Doomspheres and Deathspinners, wheellock mechanisms are easy.

My point with the Doomspheres is that they're so much more complex and advanced than flintlock mechanisms.
Also, the reason flintlock mechanisms took as long as they did to proliferate was mainly cost and refinement.

There's little worry about flintlocks being too great a technology jump--while they make the reloading process a bit easier, the main benefits of flintlocks/wheellocks is that you don't have to deal with lighting something on fire and keeping it on fire for the entire time you want to be ready to shoot. Well, that, and the ability to reliably use guns in the rain.

It's the jump to percussion caps that really get things going. Even paper cartridges have lots of problems involved (though they are a substantial improvement over the previous loading method), and without the ability to mass produce primer and metallic cartridges, you won't get anything like the Lebel.

Is the possibility of using Gold Wizards to help forge better-than-steel armor and weapons feasible (if not in the next few years, maybe a bit further down the line)? I mean, if Alexandra's idea for creating this very thing, but with Ice Magic, is possible, I can't see how doing the same with wizards specializing in metal would be harder (if anything, I'd expect it to be easier). Even better if we could get some priests from Sigmar, Ulric, etc, to further enhance/bless said gear in the forging process.

It's a hell of a lot easier to deal with than loading cannons one-handed, that's for certain. Especially if each ogre grenadier has a human by his/her side to light the fuses.

I could see it being something they think of once they consider the question of something to market to Bretonnia. Because if guns/gunpowder are right out, then something involving bows would be pretty popular...so more dakka for bows!

Mmm, well, I'll be honest. Technological overdrive/creep is a major concern of mine, and has been for quite a long time. In my head, the progression goes from matchlocks, to wheellocks, to snaplocks, to snaphaunce, to flintlocks. And while wheel-locks may come about, I really just...I'm very leery of jumping all the way to flintlocks anytime soon. Mallus has weird technological progression, obviously, so I don't necessarily want to go beyond, like, the earliest 1700/1800's in terms of most tech...barring things that are stupendously simple like the road thing you brought up earlier. I acknowledge the possibility that my aversion to such rapid advancement might be going beyond the realm of normal reason, but...I don't know, atm. You've just started on getting really improved matchlocks, and next step will be, for certain, wheellocks. Even if there are examples of it already (dwarfs, most likely), the research for that would be for making them more affordable and cheaper to make. Doomspheres and Deathspinners are extant creations, to be honest, things that shouldn't work IRL but happen to do so on Mallus, same as the lightning horse and pure steam warfare gyrocopters n'such. I don't necessarily want to use them as examples for 'cost' in terms of materials or otherwise, right now. I don't even want to think about percussion caps or the like right now.

Well, we have multiple examples of 'better-than-steel' things in-universe. You've got something called 'truesteel', which is quite clearly something other than 'just steel', in use by the High Elves. Harnesses of the stuff for dragons in Caledor, as well as an entire drawbridge made of the stuff near Vaul's Anvil. Introduced in TWW1 and 2, are the possibility of something known as 'puresteel' crossbows for dwarf quarrelers, where the wooden stock is replaced entirely by the stuff. I use, and plan to use, plenty from those games because they are awesome and so we can consider the existence of puresteel canon for the quest as well. Plus Ithilmar and Silverine or whatever it is from Bretonnia. Gromril, obviously. So...maybe? We'll have to see. Not going to get, like, titanium, I don't think, but maybe something. The material that Alexandra is making is never going to be widespread, and neither will any hypothetical gold wizard-aided thing, but who knows.

I'm thinking on the Grenadier thing, still. Armament and the like.

I really don't know how well selling crossbows to Bretonnia would go. You'd only be selling to peasants, honestly, and they don't have the money to buy at anything less than a loss in terms of profit. The nobility, the majority at least, wouldn't like it much, I don't think. Well. Maybe you could sell to, like, the bandits n'such, but that doesn't seem like something Frederick would do.

People already spoke about why the need for different books.
 
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You know if you keep the tech creep reasonable it wouldn't be a bad thing like if we somehow make a steam powered sawmill or something and it starts to proliferate through the empire you can have things like the worshippers of taal beliving they are evil and as more things are powered by them they get more and more radical. And with more things being industrialized less people are needed for jobs thus creating an unemployment crisis which just so happens to be a very good place for Chaos to gain followers. I guess what I am saying is that if we have tech creep I think it would be ok as long as it has consequences and is written well (which you no doubt will).
 
I personally think that the tech progression is currently spot on, but I can see the desire to constantly upgrade our army. I think a comprise might be to create a diminishing return upgrade for our current gun technology. In story it could be several small but cumulative technological improvements, like a more efficient manufacturing process to reduce creation cost, reducing the maintenance cost for units by increasing durability or lowering the production cost of ammunition.

Alternatively it could be new ways or techniques to utilize the technology. For example I know that learning how to better store, prepare and transport the wicks resulted in far better performance in the field.

I agree that too many rapid technological improvements will break the setting. A mary sue technological ascendency sounds cool, but I think it will ring hollow if we get there.
 
@torroar since we were talking about theme music earlier you have something for Urgdug? Maybe a wrestling theme since we know you like that and cause Urgdug is skilled in ogre wrestling?
 
Hey @torroar, I have some suggestions for character themes for a few other PC's on your other quests if you're interested.

Jo Jo Headshrinke - Two Steps From Hell: Tribal Sacrifice


Gabriel Angelos - The Wages of Treason: With Prejudice


Dranosh Saurfang - Prince of Persia: Welcome Within
 
I've got a couple of questions if you don't mind @torroar
1. Did Frederick's father fight in the Great War Against Chaos? I assume he did, since Ostland was the first province to lend aid to Kislev against Kul, but wouldn't Magnus have mentioned that when he first met Frederick, or did Magnus not bring that up because he knew that Frederick's relationship with his father was strained at best?
2. Given its upcoming expansion, has Wulfenburg grown enough to be considered one of the "major" cities of the Empire? It's definitely not on the scale of Nuln, Altdorf, or Marienburg. but how does it compare to Middenheim or Talabheim?
3. How are the Bull Warriors seen outside of Ostland? They're obviously numero uno within Ostland, but what kinda reputation do they have outside the province, if they have any at all?
 
I've got a couple of questions if you don't mind @torroar
1. Did Frederick's father fight in the Great War Against Chaos? I assume he did, since Ostland was the first province to lend aid to Kislev against Kul, but wouldn't Magnus have mentioned that when he first met Frederick, or did Magnus not bring that up because he knew that Frederick's relationship with his father was strained at best?
2. Given its upcoming expansion, has Wulfenburg grown enough to be considered one of the "major" cities of the Empire? It's definitely not on the scale of Nuln, Altdorf, or Marienburg. but how does it compare to Middenheim or Talabheim?
3. How are the Bull Warriors seen outside of Ostland? They're obviously numero uno within Ostland, but what kinda reputation do they have outside the province, if they have any at all?
I'm not GM but think I can answer questions.
1. No he was not, he was still a blacksmith in backwater village during course of war since he was exiled there. Father died in conflict and rest of family died due to Chaos cultist attack.
2. It does not, Middenheim has thousands of years of build up even if can't expand like normal still quite large while Talabheim is one of largest cities in Old World built nearly as long ago. Wulfenburg is expanding yes but it will be several generations of growth and success before it compares to lots of major cities.
3. Bull Warriors don't seem to travel outside of Ostland much when not on campaign with army, if they are they are mostly seen as a minor knightly order at most outside of Trident since they don't have the same reach and far reaching history other orders do.
 
I know Frederick didn't fight in the war, I was asking if his dad did.
 
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i know Frederick didn't fight in the war, I was asking if his dad did.
  • Elector Count Joseph Hohenzollern (Father of Frederick Hohenzollern) - Slain in 2304 By Chaos Knights Dead
Yes he did, just because he fought in war doesn't mean he personally knew Magnus or interacted with him much beyond war meetings.

Pretty unimportant even if Magnus did know Freddy's father in the grand scheme of things.
 
@torroar, can we sell our guns to the Bretonnian Navy? Unlike Bretonnia's ground forces, its naval forces make extensive use of guns, enough to make them the premiere naval power among the human nations. (I think it's because GW is British and Bretonnia sounds similar to Britannia and Britannia rules the waves.)
 
@torroar, can we sell our guns to the Bretonnian Navy? Unlike Bretonnia's ground forces, its naval forces make extensive use of guns, enough to make them the premiere naval power among the human nations. (I think it's because GW is British and Bretonnia sounds similar to Britannia and Britannia rules the waves.)
The Bretonnian Navy never got roflstomped, so it didn't get remade as a gunpowder using navy.
 
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Yes he did, just because he fought in war doesn't mean he personally knew Magnus or interacted with him much beyond war meetings.

Pretty unimportant even if Magnus did know Freddy's father in the grand scheme of things.
That shows when and how he died, which was after the war during the failed first attempt at retaking Salkalten. It doesn't say anything as to whether or not he fought in the Great War. Sorry if I'm acting like a pedantic asshole about this, but it's something I've been curious about for awhile.
Also, if anyone's still wondering about the currency thing, Frederick refers to Ostland's currency as bulls during the Conclave of Zhufbar, which indicates that the Empire's currency is not standardized, which is unsurprising, given that the Empire hadn't really existed as a united entity until very recently.
 
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