@torroar : I'm sorry if I asked this before, but what's the status on our ongoing project to fully reverse-engineer and reproduce steam tanks? When I last checked, we'd basically figured out Kathleen completely, so while we know how to produce the Steam Tank for the most part, we haven't necessarily figured out how to reproduce the turret's steam cannon yet.
However, since we've invented the combustion engine, we could potentially do even better--by basically replacing the steam engine with a combustion engine, and have the cannons powered by gunpowder instead of steam pressure to propel the cannon-balls.
--
Oh, and when Anna came back from Tilea, she brought back blueprints for some kind of farming machine. What ever happened with that? Especially since the other thing she brought back turned out to be a fake (but she figured out how to make it work anyway, because Anna), I would think the other thing to be genuine.
GM explicitly said that the Vapor Engine is not a combustion engine. As for reproducing Steam Tanks, I'm pretty sure that's the entire point of the Vapor Tank project, which is why I want it done ASAP.
GM explicitly said that the Vapor Engine is not a combustion engine. As for reproducing Steam Tanks, I'm pretty sure that's the entire point of the Vapor Tank project, which is why I want it done ASAP.
@torroar : a potentially useful tool for you is to have "invention actions" whereby something new is created as a proof of concept, which can then be followed up on by multiple, progressive "development actions", whereby the invention is refined, methods of producing it in a more practical and cost-effective manner are worked out, and flaws in the design discovered and addressed, followed by "production actions", which would be under the "military" section of actions instead of the "development" section (I know you already do that last one, for the most part; I'm just trying to be clear).
And, hell, you could deal with the whole issue of "technology creep" by having lots of intermediate steps between inventing something and creating the means to turn that invention into a practical and cost-effective reality. So, say, wheellocks: Anna creates a few pistols/handguns that use wheellock mechanisms, but she makes them by hand, and they're expensive and time-consuming to make, too much so to equip an army with them. So we'd need to take a series of development actions regarding creating better tools for producing the parts for wheellock mechanisms, actions for reducing the complexity and number of parts for a wheellock mechanism, a development action for extensive testing of the wheellock mechanism under a variety of conditions (rainy, dirty, cold, hot, physical punishment, wear and tear from extensive use), another development action for addressing the problems arising from those tests, and finally an action for putting it all together and making a quasi-production-line for it. Then a military action for actually equipping and training our handgun units with them.
The result would be that the whole process would still take quite a lot of time--and that's just for wheellocks.
Now, in order to prevent such a dynamic from basically tying up our research/development options indefinitely on a long term project, we should probably get options for expanding our engineering school/research actions--obviously at significant cost in gold--and factor in the presence of our best engineers into the rolls for success (kind of like the Double Down mechanic)--so we have to choose which project to assign Anna and whatever Master Engineers we have, with different roll modifiers for each Master Engineer.
Just an idea. I'm sure you've got stuff going on behind the scenes that we don't know about, of course.
I'd be lying if I said I understood the fears of tech creep. I'd say that the amount of technological progress that's been made throughout the quest has been perfectly fine, and any oddball advancements (like blastweaving, which shouldn't be practical considering considering the current level of gun technology), still make perfect sense considering the universe the quest takes place in. Not to mention that torroar has made it pretty clear that there is a hard cap as to how much we can advance. As for any mechanical changes, I say just keep the course, the simpler the mechanics the better IMO.
I'd be lying if I said I understood the fears of tech creep. I'd say that the amount of technological progress that's been made throughout the quest has been perfectly fine,
Basically, some dynasty quests eventually trend towards roflstomping the competition because the MC ascended to godhood or kickstarted an industrial revolution or created giant mecha or whatever.
In this quest, we're bridging the tech advantage that the Dwarves have held over us in terms of guns, are creating our own(and improved) versions of the units that gave other factions an edge in canon(Skaven Doomwheels, Ogre Leadbelchers, Goblin Doom Divers...) and basically gave our basic troops enough special shit to qualify for a Dogs of War unit worth at least twice their points value.
We also got Bugman training apprentices/brewing which turned his brew from "dwindling supplies, no longer produced from an earlier blow as proof the Dwarves are in decline" to "brew that makes Dwarves fight harder, a sign of the Dwarven Age of Reclamation." Same with the Steam Tanks - the Empire doesn't know how to make more of them in Canon.
Two big concerns of tech creep are:
1. that the other factions won't be able to keep up which reduces the dramatic tension generated through conflict with other factions.
2. that the other factions can keep up and things become progressively more silly as superweapons are pitted against wunderwaffen to keep things in a weird equilibrium that makes it harder to feel/gauge the impact of new technologies but also means nobody wants to be the one who slows down tech progression.
2. that the other factions can keep up and things become progressively more silly as superweapons are pitted against wunderwaffen to keep things in a weird equilibrium that makes it harder to feel/gauge the impact of new technologies but also means nobody wants to be the one who slows down tech progression.
It's not that I don't understand why people are wary of tech creep, it's more that I'm not sure if it applies to this particular quest. Maybe it's because I got enough faith in the GM to ensure that it doesn't get ridiculous.
It's not that I dont't understand why people are wary of tech creep, it's more that I'm not sure if it applies to this particular quest. Maybe it's because I got enough faith in the GM to ensure that it doesn't get ridiculous.
I agree, we have some amazing things but the costs involved(like the blastweave) and the limited range of use( bird bombers, blast discs and death spinners are all one use per battle weapons) balances things nicely. DM done good. The vapor engine may make some steam tank like weapon possible but it will still have limits and be costly making it a game changer but not a game breaker.
It's not that I don't understand why people are wary of tech creep, it's more that I'm not sure if it applies to this particular quest. Maybe it's because I got enough faith in the GM to ensure that it doesn't get ridiculous.
Ah, but I am gripped with constant doubt and fear on this subject. So while you might have faith in the GM on a tech creep front, I am not so certain. Hence my hesitation on the matter.
Two big concerns of tech creep are:
1. that the other factions won't be able to keep up which reduces the dramatic tension generated through conflict with other factions.
2. that the other factions can keep up and things become progressively more silly as superweapons are pitted against wunderwaffen to keep things in a weird equilibrium that makes it harder to feel/gauge the impact of new technologies but also means nobody wants to be the one who slows down tech progression.
Now this? This I find interesting...might incorporate bits of it. Yeah. Also, yeah, the vapor engine is not combustion. But it is a vapor engine to a RL vapor engines as WHFB steam engines is to a RL steam engine...by which I mean, capable of more cause WHFB science gets to be just slightly wonky.
EDIT: In an effort to not double post, I've deleted the post after this one and edited it in here:
Just a fond look back at the beginning of the quest. Hey look! It's marriage prospects for Frederick von Hohenzollern, new Elector Count of Ostland and utterly unproven drunkard!
Marriage…hurray?: You hadn't even really thought about marriage before this point. But as an Elector Count, you have a responsibility to…well, get married. It's not like you'll want for potential partners. Even as a brand new and untested Count, you command a Runefang and an entire Province, giving you more influence than almost anyone else in the entire Empire. Put out the call that you are looking for potential partners and you can be assured that you will receive many an option. You'll have your advisers look through them first to cull the chaff of course. Cost: 0. Time: 1 Year. Reward: Marriage Options.
- You got a lot of responses, but your advisors have selected the ones they find the most…useful. Or palatable. Whichever.
1) Johanna Fuerbach is the recently 'rediscovered' daughter of the current Elector Count of Talabecland. She brings with her connections to the Empires greatest land-trading Province and a direct line to it. The 'rediscovered' portion is due to the fact that she has been presumed dead for the past three years. As it turns out, she wanted to go out and see the world, and when was told not to…went out and did it anyway. Now twenty three years old, she has spent the past four years traveling the world as an adventurer fighting everything imaginable across the world. They thought she died when the boat she was travelling on towards Cathay was reported destroyed. She didn't and made her way to shore. Experienced to the extreme, if Johanna's tales weren't backed up by the confirmation of the dwarves, men, and women that she travelled with then she would have been ridiculed as an absolute liar. As it is, her halberd was once repaired and engraved with dwarvish runes for helping an expedition of the stout folk recover some Clans ancestral heirloom from a lost hold in the Mountains of Mourn. Now she is back, and her father is desperate to stick her somewhere where she won't immediately run off again to satisfy her wanderlust.
Trait: Strong - Born stronger than most.(+2 Martial) [This is a genetic trait. It may be passed on to children]
Trait: Experienced - Has been a mercenary for several years, ranging across the Empire and beyond. Knows much about the world. (+1 All Stats)
Trait: Dwarf Friend – Assisted in the recovery of Clan Durragsson's ancestral heirlooms from the Mountains of Mourn, gaining their eternal friendship through binding oaths and gratitude.
2) Natasha Romanov is…well. All right, we'll come out and say it, she is a witch. An Ice Witch, to be specific. Now, Magnus had declared that magic is relatively all right, but he is going up against about 2300 years saying that magic is evil and wrong. But your advisers are aware of the fact that you are not…the most pious fellow around. All the dogma surrounding a woman who uses magic, no matter the type, sort of washes off of you like water on a ducks back. The youngest daughter of the Tzarina is cold as the ice she commands. Growing up with Kattarin, her elder sister, has resulted in a woman who has been largely pushed aside for who everyone else considers to be the future Tzarina. Not able to stand in the spotlight, Natasha has thrived in the dark. She has quietly amassed her own connections and cultivated her own relationships separate from her sister and mother, and can be as cold about it as a Kislev Winter. You know little else about her personality, but she is part of the Romanaov Dynasty, and Kislev has never been against their Ice Mages. This is a chance to connect yourself to the bulwark against Chaos, and if you strengthen them, then maybe the next Everchosen will just stop at Praag.
Trait: Scholar - loves learning whatever they can (+4 Learning, +2 Piety, -2 Intrigue, -2 Martial)
Trait: Attractive – Quite beautiful (+2 Diplomacy)
Trait: Journeyman Ice Mage - A relatively experienced user of ice magic. Female Children may be born with Ice Mage trait. (+2 martial, +2 learning, +1 Piety)
3) Ortrud Hertwig is the first daughter of the current Elector Count of Ostermark, Klaus Hertwig. And she is something rare amongst all of your potential partners. A lot of people disregard the rural Ostermark as backwards and ridiculous farming folk. A lot of people forget that they consistently send troops to aid Kislev in its troubles with Chaos, more than any other province. Their soldiery are some of the most rugged and experienced around. Like Ortrud, a bona fide veteran of the Great War Against Chaos. She stood at the gates of Kislev itself and fought alongside the armies that Magnus brought forth. She ran up and down Kislev, and has spent the past two years helping clear Ostermark of the Chaos remnants who fled there. To be clear, she cleared Ostermark. Tabebecland, Ostland, Nordland, Kislev, and really much of the Empire is still caught in the throes of the remnants of the armies of the Everchosen. Not Ostermark. Ortrud. The word comes from the roots "ort," meaning "sword point," and "trud," meaning "power." Well. Makes sense.
Trait: Strong – Born stronger than most (+2 Martial)
Trait: Humble – The daughter of a farming province that may be incredibly successful now but has never forgotten her roots. (+3 Piety)
Trait: War Veteran – A veteran of the Great War Against Chaos. Retains contact with other veterans across the Empire.
Surprised at how high ranking those matches were, considering how young and unproven Frederick was at that point in time. I guess marrying your daughter or sister to an Elector Count would override those kind of concerns.
Surprised at how high ranking those matches were, considering how young and unproven Frederick was at that point in time. I guess marrying your daughter or sister to an Elector Count would override those kind of concerns.
Ortrud's father wanted his daughter to find someone new to their position that she could easily dominate due to their inexperience and give Ostermark a better political position, Kattarin wanted Natasha married out of the country so that she could not exert undue influence while Kattarin was tying up the court while also being a modicum safer than the blasted aftermath that was left of Kislev after the Everchosen rampaged through, and Adolf wanted to tie down his daughter immediately so that she didn't go running back out into the wild world again doing who knows what and who knows where.
Ortrud's father wanted his daughter to find someone new to their position that she could easily dominate due to their inexperience and give Ostermark a better political position, Kattarin wanted Natasha married out of the country so that she could not exert undue influence while Kattarin was tying up the court while also being a modicum safer than the blasted aftermath that was left of Kislev after the Everchosen rampaged through, and Adolf wanted to tie down his daughter immediately so that she didn't go running back out into the wild world again doing who knows what and who knows where.
Two big concerns of tech creep are:
1. that the other factions won't be able to keep up which reduces the dramatic tension generated through conflict with other factions.
2. that the other factions can keep up and things become progressively more silly as superweapons are pitted against wunderwaffen to keep things in a weird equilibrium that makes it harder to feel/gauge the impact of new technologies but also means nobody wants to be the one who slows down tech progression.
Too be fair in a setting that has orcs, chaos dwarfs, and skaven coming out with crazy inventions/doomsday weapons all the time there is little risk of going too overboard that GW hasn't already done.
The chaos dwarfs have literal blood magitech while skaven has the same but can supercharge research rates by just throwing bodies at the problem.
Torroar, a slightly odd question about Karak Ungor. What did the Skaven use the Distillery Warpstone for? I don't remember it coming up unless I'm just mentally erasing it.
Honestly, i am wondering how high on artifact scale of epicness will whatever Kragg is making for Frederick be. Alaric the Mad spent a century making thirteen runefangs. Although, well, he was very obsessed with their creation. I doubt Kragg spent the decade working on just fancy doodad for a manling, but still.
I'd be happy to explain any of the choices I made here. The Savior's Steelfist is based on the simplest and most obvious improvements to the original that Kragg outright stated/Torroar strongly implied. If and when we see the actual model, this will be modified appropriately.
Frederick von Hohenzollern: The Steel Bull, Elector Count of Ostland, Zakdrungi a Dum
345 pts
Viewed as often with cautious uncertainty and disdain as with awe and respect, the Elector Count of Ostland is an unusual figure. Seen by many as the main reason for Ostland's incredibly fast rise into power from a well-deserved reputation of a backwater forested wasteland, he is a military genius and arguably the greatest fighter in the Empire. And yet his journey into manhood started as a smith, and a burgeoning engineer, left to his own devices far from the line of inheritance until the Great War against Chaos came and wrought untold destruction upon the Empire, including but far from limited to practically the entirety of his family. Like the tools he once made with sweat and flame, he was forged into the warrior and leader in the fires of Chaos' invasion. Bereft of the political training and environment his elder siblings had, he is a blunt man, lacking poise and decorum. Combined with an exceedingly well deserved reputation as a massive alcoholic with an anger problem, many see him as lacking in intelligence, a brutish oaf.
The truth is that he is a genius in many ways, but despite being a politician by circumstance finds simpler ideals and views to be more productive in accomplishing things, bulldozing through courtly manners as habit and lack of care. He focuses on both practicality and idealism, doing what is right and looking past old prejudices where they do not personally offend him if they better his cause and the defense of his people. His temper has been cooled and sharpened by time and experience, and he devotes increasingly more time to enjoying the pleasures brought by a strong, unified empire and focusing on economic projects and research developments. But he has not softened, only come to realize that wrath burns quick, and is better tended to with cunning and wisdom, even if he finds simpler matters more to his taste. His rise in power and personality has made him many enemies and rivals, viewing Ostland's growth as disturbing the order held since almost the founding of the Empire, while his personality and decisions irk those that have not spent long years with him, or fought side by side. He has had fistfights with fellow Elector Counts, assaulted a Prince of Caledor, and left the son of an Arch-Lector battered in a ditch for grievances that a more temperate individual might have ignored (ironically, all during Elector Meets). Merchant lords and bandit kings and fellow Elector Counts have conspired to do unto him great damage, either personally, or to his province and allies.
For all that, he has made as many allies and friends as he has enemies. The Dwarves view him with respect not afforded since Sigmar Heldenhammer and Mandred Skavenslayer, if not greater, for deeds and avenged grudges that could fill a library for their number and sheer importance. Magnus the Pious finds in him a worthy subordinate and comrade, while in Kislev he has both family and ally sworn in treaty and battle, his sister in law Katterin the Bloody treating him with unusual frankness. The Asrai of Laurelorn (begrudgingly) look past their ingrained xenophobia and treat him as an equal for bonds forged in battle and the killing of Ghorros Warhoof, father of all Centigors, and avenging the death and desecration of the unicorn prince. The Everqueen herself deigns to consider him worth consideration, while Halflings and Ogres happily inhabit the Ostland he created in numbers far beyond anywhere else save their homelands, and the infamous Urgdug-of-an-exceedingly-long-list-of-Big-and-unique Names-Greatbellow is his brother in every way that matters. And in Nordland and Ostermark lie the closest of allies, his fellow Elector Counts of the provinces of Northern Trident as trusted and treasured as his own family. This willingness to look past boundaries does not extend to all, however. The Undead have found a place of permanent, eternal hatred in his heart for the centuries of devastation wrought from plaguing Ostland, devastating his province in his lifetime, and killing his son. There can be no peace with those that do not live. Save perhaps some few.
His experiences have seen him brought to the brink of death time and again, the number of wounds he has garnered enough to ruin an army of lesser men. Through sheer rage, determination, more than a little luck and a fair bit of drunken stoicism, he has pushed the specter of death away, and augmented his grit with a very fitting panoply earned in pushing past racial barriers for the sake of fighting the good fight.
M4
WS7
BS6
S4
T4
W4
I6
A5
Ld10
Oskana:
M6
WS5
BS0
S6
T5
W5
I4
A4
Ld7
Troop Type: Infantry: Special Character
Oskana (Monster): Frederick von Hohenzollern may be carried into battle by his temperamental but ferocious Imperial Griffon
(Frederick only) Immune to Psychology, Unbreakable, Hold the Line!, Devastating Charge, Hates (Undead), is Hated by (Centigors)
(Oskana only) Fly, Large Target, Terror
The Unkillable: For every unsaved Wound that Frederick suffers, roll a D6. On a 6+, the Wound is negated as the Steel Bull shoves past the pain and damage with raw determination, fury, and muscular denseness. This does not apply to Killing Blow or Heroic Killing Blow. If Frederick should suffer an unsaved Wound that would kill him, including Killing Blow, Heroic Killing Blow, or Multiple Wounds, he must take a Leadership test (after the relevant rule for the Light of Summer, if applicable) with a malus equaling the number of Wounds that would go beyond 0 (an unsaved Killing Blow or Heroic Killing Blow counts as equal to his starting, maximum number of Wounds (4)). For example, if Frederick had 3 Wounds left and suffered one unsaved Wound and one unsaved Killing Blow, he would be at -2 Wounds, and thus take a Leadership test at +2. If the test is passed, he remains in play with 1 Wound.
Equipment:
Full plate Armor
The Ostland Runefang
Despite suffering much from the ravages of Gorthor and the Great War against Chaos, the heirloom of Ostland remains in the hands of the family of the Elector Count. With it, Frederick has slain nightmares and legends alike, along with a horde of lesser monsters.
Magic Weapon. All hits from the Ostland Runefang wound automatically with no armour saves allowed
The Light of Summer
Crafted at the height of summer by the High Spellweaver of Laurelorn when the magics of the Wood Elves are strongest, the Light of Summer is a tight yet sturdy chain necklace which terminates at a single crystal of indeterminate hue. Some see a golden yellow the color of purest and brightest sunlight, some swear upon a swirling otherworldly green the color of Ghyran, while still others claim a series of even more fantastical shades. In truth, all are seemingly true, for the crafter proclaimed that the essence of summer itself had been harnessed within. What material makes up the necklace is entirely unknown, looking like silver but being harder to scratch than the mightiest dwarven steel, while delicate and intricate inlays have been made along each individual link displaying various scenes of summer and forest. It is rare, incredibly so, that an artifact of such beauty and power of the Wood Elves would ever pass to an outsider's hands, but was granted and made in reward for the slaying of Ghorros Warhoof, one of the most hated enemies of the Asrai. Bound eternally to the bloodline of the Hohenzollern's of Ostland, its powers fall silent when any other attempts to wear it. Its effects, beyond what it represents by simply existing, are powerful indeed. An aura of pure vitality fills the one who wears it at all times, but more impressive to all is the healing benefits it provides whenever its bearer is injured, with the crystal often flaring with healing power to knit bones and seamlessly repair flesh.
Talisman. The Light of Summer provides a 4+ Regeneration Save. In addition, once per game if Frederick suffers an unsaved Wound that would kill him (including an unsaved Wound that killed him as a result of the Killing Blow, Heroic Killing Blow, or Multiple Wounds special rules), roll a D6 before removing him as a casualty; on a 2+, Frederick negates the Wound and the Light of Summer's Regeneration Save becomes 6+ Otherwise, Frederick will resolve the Unkillable special rule as normal.
The Savior's Steelfist
After his original prosthetic version of the device fashioned and improved over multiple iterations by Frederick himself was ruined destroying the false Throne of the Dawi Zharr, Kragg the Grim, ancient runelord of Karaz a Karak, spent many years designing a superior version of what he had made below Karak Ungor. With proper crafting materials at hand, the resulting creation is as much a work of art as it is a weapon, crafted from Gromril; it is reward and memento encompassing all that was the event known as the Retaking of Karak Ungor, saving the High King, the Dammaz Kron, the Axe of Grimnir, and so much more. Bearing potent Runes and masterful workdwarfship, it is an unasked for but much treasured gift for the purpose of preserving Frederick's life and ending those of his enemies.
Magic Armour. The Savior's Steelfist functions as a normal Steelfist, granting both an additional Attack (already included in his profile), a Parry Save, and a 6+ Armor Save cumulative with his Fullplate Armor. However, the master dwarf craftsmanship and Gromril material increases the Parry Save to 5+, and the Armour Save to 5+, for a cumulative 2+ Armor Save with Frederick's Fullplate Armor. In addition, it bears the Runes of Warding, Preservation, and Fire (see Armybook: Dwarves), bypassing the typical restrictions on Runes via its technical multipurpose nature and Kragg the Grim's sheer skill.
Options:
May be mounted on Oskana (Imperial Griffon): 170 pts
If starting the game in a unit, that unit may be equipped with The Ironhorn Banner for 70 pts:
A gift to his son and their collected family for Magnus von Hohenzollern's wedding by King Baragor of Karak Kadrin, this banner is made of magma dragon hide from the same wyrms that appeared and were slain at the climactic engagement in Karak Ungor, wrapped around and nailed onto a large gromril slate, with shards of magma dragon claws around the sides. In Khazalid, the Tale of the Ironfist and the Steel Bull Is Summarized, in verse, with potent runes matching the familial desire to preserve and protect.
Magic Standard: The Master Rune of Grimnir has been emblazoned on it along with the Rune of Courage, and the Rune of Sanctuary (see Army Book: Dwarves) In addition, the unit wielding this banner is Stubborn.
May add Stone-Souled for 60 pts: If playing a game with Dwarves as an allied army, all Dwarves within 12" of Frederick von Hohenzollern are both Unbreakable and have +1 to Combat Resolution.
