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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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Alectai said:
The flipside is that it took This long just to hit that first threshold, which was honestly pretty low.

Which suggests the Syndicate has horrifically high Resilience score... Which does make a fair amount of sense in light of how they seem to have easy, reliable, invisible mind control and conditioning. You can't lose the will to fight if everybody involved is a True Believer literally incapable of feeling like they can lose, and being willing to work for free if they have to.

And of course, the other flipside being that "If we can take fewer actions, then it means we can dump more resources into every action we take."
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Yeah. I personally doubt that the Federation has the political will to continue this to end. I am not saying that we will drop out while there is still open warfare going on but I doubt we will do the whole 800 points, especially if another crisis/war pops up.
 
Simon_Jester said:
I fully recognize that this was never going to be short or easy- but if it's going to take THAT long, then anything we can do to increase our Impact is almost certainly going to significantly reduce the duration of the campaign against the Syndicate, and hasten the day that we knock them down to the (400 or 500, I forget) Impact threshold at which they become crippled as an organization and unlikely to successfully resist our effort to finish them off.
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200 threshold, not 80 threshold. we hit the 80 threshold a while back. I know were over 200 impact at this point. and I'm pretty shure it took longer to reach 80 impact then the time form 80 impact to 200 impact.

unless I have my math completely wrong.
 
Assuming I'm reading the front page right (I really should save a link to the spreadsheet of ship building), then we have 3 Connie-Bs about to be let loose from their building slips (I really want to call them ship wombs from a story over on SB).

Everybody ready for our cruiser construction focus to finally bear fruit?
 
Erandil said:
Yeah. I personally doubt that the Federation has the political will to continue this to end. I am not saying that we will drop out while there is still open warfare going on but I doubt we will do the whole 800 points, especially if another crisis/war pops up.
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Remember the 800 points isn't even to kill the Syndicate, it's to destroy its ability to act against us. They'll go underground and come up again in fifty or a hundred years time, maybe not in Orion space, maybe not even in the Federation anymore, but we can't really kill the Syndicate. I wouldn't be surprised if they've done it before.
 
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Erandil said:
Yeah. I personally doubt that the Federation has the political will to continue this to end. I am not saying that we will drop out while there is still open warfare going on but I doubt we will do the whole 800 points, especially if another crisis/war pops up.
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Hopefully we are reducing their resilience as well so that means more impact going through. Also reducing their actions should hopefully impact their ability to do harm to our assets and reduce the cost each month
 
OneirosTheWriter said:
Member World Coordination Office - Member and Affiliate Shipbuilding Update

Commenced:
Andor - 1 Excelsior(NCC-2020), 1 Cargo Ship
Vulcan - 1 Cargo Ship, 1 Civilian Ship
Tellar - 1 Miranda-A Refit
Humans - 1 Miranda-A Refit, 1 Cargo Ship
Amarki - Amarkia Arsenal Berth A 2500kt->3000kt, 1 Centaur-A (NCC-2123)
Betazed - 1 Centaur-A (NCC-2123)
Caitian - 1 Mod Swarmer (NCC-2814)
Rigel - 1 Mega-Tortoise
Apiata - 1 Forager, 2 Bumblebee
Risa - 1 Corvette
Gaeni -
Caldonia - 1 Civilian Ship
Indoria - 1 Large Escort, 2 Cargo Ships
Seyek - 1 Cruiser
Orions -
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If Yrillians ever became 300+ affiliates, their shipbuilding reports will be hilarious.

Yrillians - 2 escorts, 6 civilian ships, and Creator only knows what's going on in the shipyards that didn't bother to send in a report.
 
So listen, can I convince everyone to spend some pp on an Explorer Corps Recruitment Drive this Snakepit?

If we do one, we can crew an Explorer Corps Excelsior in 2313. I think it'll be well worth the investment.
 
We may well have hit the 200-threshold, not the 80-threshold. I remain an optimist.

e: In which case, someone calculating total impact should be able to estimate Syndicate resilience. I don't have those numbers available, but I'm certain that someone does.
 
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TerrisH said:
200 threshold, not 80 threshold. we hit the 80 threshold a while back. I know were over 200 impact at this point. and I'm pretty shure it took longer to reach 80 impact then the time form 80 impact to 200 impact.

unless I have my math completely wrong.
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As the Q1.M3 Master of Orion update indicated, it might have happened right in that month. Our total impact went from 197 to 206 in my tally.

However, I thought the Syndicate had their own resilience to our impact, so I'm actually surprised we breached the 200 impact threshold.

Briefvoice said:
So listen, can I convince everyone to spend some pp on an Explorer Corps Recruitment Drive this Snakepit?

If we do one, we can crew an Explorer Corps Excelsior in 2313. I think it'll be well worth the investment.
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I'm up for it. I think you had planned an Excelsior cost infusion in 2315 and I'm like 90% sure it won't be needed with the recent +10sr/yr and the upcoming SR tech, so that "saved" 25pp can be shifted earlier to this year.

I'm also likely going to vote for any option that can increase our influence points against the Syndicate though.
 
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Ato said:
A History of the United Worlds of Rigel
-Part 1​

Preface
Rigel is a vibrant starfaring civilization with a long standing as the one of the preminent cultural and trading hubs of local space. This star nation has weathered many crises across the centuries, and yet admist the strife and conflict found in this turbulent region has maintained its strong democratc institutions, and refused to compromise on its traditons of civil liberty.

Before 450 CE the world we know as Rigel III, and which the native inhabitants then refered to as Chelar, was home to the Chelonian species who were at the very beginning of an industrial revolution. However before the Chelonians could begin to construct their machine age civilization, and begin an ascent towards spaceflight on their own, the Rigel system was discovered by interstellar travellers.

First Contact
In the darkness of space it is an unfortunate truth that star systems with a life bearing habitable world are uncommon, such systems are prized by star nations for colonization and expansion. Rigel is a system that is truly rare in that it is host to two such worlds, that have independnatly developed life. Chelar or Rigel III is one, the other is the sixth moon of the gas giant Rigel V.
It was the long range detection of these two life bearing planets that drew the attention of the Javeer Astroindustrial Consortium, a powerful hypercorporation of the rapidly expanding Orion Empire. Eager to exploit the land rights that developing such a system for the Empire would gain, the JAC dispatched an armed survey expedition beyond the edge of then Orion space to stake their claim.

The survey ship Ventim discovered that the world moon of Rigel Vf was a pradise waiting to be conquered, its ecology and climate was almost perfectly suited to Orions, and it was home to no indigenous sapient species. However turning their eyes in system, they saw the telltale pinpricks of artificial light flickering upon the nightside of Rigel V.
Investigating futher they discovered the thriving Chelonian civilization on the surface.

First contact between Orion and Chelonian was amicable, the natives were awed when the Ventim descended from orbit to land outside Ategn, then the largest city and capital of the Kingdom of Meronat, the most powerful planetary polity. The Orion captain Hayar Matessik introduced herself and her species as explorers and traders from across the stars, and in an act that would secure her place in history she negotiated the trade deal in which the Chelonians sold the mineral rights to their system, and ownership of Rigel Vf to the Javeer Astroindustrial Consortium. What exactly the Chelonians recieved in return is lost to history, and has been variously reported to be anything from few trinkets of Orion entertainment systems, to detailed technological and scientific documents.

Very quickly the JAC moved to exploit their new possesion, developing valuble mining and extraction sites across the Rigel system, and ushering waves of Orion colonists to the world of Rigel Vf, now named Kolar.

This bold expansion had pushed forward the boundaries of the Orion Empire, further than in the previous hundred years. The prestige accrued propelled Javeer executives into the highest echelons of the Imperial court, enabling them to expand the hypercorporation's interests and portfolios thoughout the Empire.
Within a few decades the investment poured into the Rigel system began to show dividends, greats increasing corporate profits, the colony on Kolar was prosperous, and rapidly growing. Interaction between the Chelonians and their new Orion neighbours was inevitable. Orions established trading concerns and buisnesses on Chelar, whilst the Consortium purchased Chelonian convicts and indentured servants for use as labour on its many projects on Kolar and around the system.

The impact on Chelonian civilization was immense, even the meagre resources and trinkets the Orions traded with them allowed the Kingdom of Meronat to become the premimeninet power on Chelar, launching a series of conflicts that subdued their rivals and asserted dominance over lesser powers. A state of affairs that enterprising Orions were eager to get involved in, selling to all sides. By 500CE the Chelonians had achieved a sophisticated machine age industrial civilization. However it had come at a cost, unequal trades with Orions had lead to a heavy offworld involvement in the economy and politics of Chelar. Orion business magnates held vast estates on the surface, extra-terratorial legations could be found in most major cities, and even the mighty Kingdom of Meronat paid heed to the words of Orion political advisors.

Seeking to build upon the success of Rigel, the Consortium began further exploration of the surrounding space. Their ships discovered significant resource deposits in neighbouring systems, along with several more non-spacefaring native species. With a hunger in their hearts the executives of the Consortium began another wave of expansion, seeding mining and industrial construction facilities across the sector. It was their dream that Rigel and its surroundings would become a new hub for the Empire, with them as its proprietors. To this end their rebranded their hypercorporation the 'Rigel Consortium'. Some within the Empire even began to whisper that the Consortium might become a true rival for the Orion Syndicate.


The First Rebellion
By 530CE the inequality of the Chelonian-Orion relationship was beginning to cause unrest on Chelar. Resentment at percieived unfairness, and Orion monopolization coincided with large social restructuring of Chelonian society as it transistioned into a fully industrial civilization. Huge numbers of Chelonians flocked to rapidly growing cities eager to find work in the new factories, many of which were owned by Orion businesses. Labour disputes lead to mass demonstrations, demanding an end to inequal treaties and the end of land sales to Orions.
This wave of public feeling unsettled the ruling classes, who depended on Orion support to maintain their power. Attempts to supress these demonstrations began to end in violence, and by 535CE, several lowl level guerilla conflicts were in progress.
The spread of these Chelonian nationalist sentiments among the labour population throughout the Rigel sector deeply worried the Consortium board, so when the unrest on Chelar erupted into outright revolution they were spurred into action.

Several of the minor independant states were overthrown in violent populist coups, the revolutionaries banded together to form a United Chelonian Republic that was firmly opposed to Orion interference on Chelar, and sought to tear down the stratified social order of the oligarchial Orion client states.
The Kingdom of Meronat and its allies responsed to these events with hostility, mobilising military force to crush the upstarts to their hegemony. However heavy internal dissent and an ossified bureaucracy slowed their speed of action giving the Republic a large amount of time to prepare. The initial campaigns went poorly for the Meronese, with the Republic making large gains in land, material and manpower. Inspiring propaganda lead many Chelonians to join their cause bolstering republican armies. For a while it seemed that the revolution would sweep all before it, and cleanse Chelar of foreign influence. Then the starships landed.

Determined not to let the petty squabbles of a leswer species interfere with their plans for poltical asendance within the Empire, the Consortium began giving direct military aid to the pro-Orion Chelonian alliance. Prop powered fighters mounting ballistic cannon proved no match for disruptor fire from Orion gunships, and Consortium Security shock troops used a massive superiority in fire power to turn the tide and crush the Republic
Exasperated by the incompetance of the Meronese, and seeking a greater degree of control in the future, the Consortium effectively dissolved the local governments putting in place an Orion lead planetary administration, and directly annexing Chelar into the Orion Empire. Abduction and enslavement of other species in the sector also began on a large scale, as the Consortium sought to diversfy its labour force, hoping to avert any possibility of one species sucessfully revolting.
The shortlived Republic, and the war it fought to free Chelar would later become known as the first Rebellion, it would not be the last.


Intrigue and Industry
For the next hundred years the Rigel system was relatively peaceful. Occasional minor nationalist uprisings on Chelar and small slave revolts aside. As theConsirtium had hoped their efforts had succeded in establishing Rigel as almost a second centre if the Empire. The industrial and mineral wealth of an entire sector was almost completely owned by the Consortium, making them a powerful broker in Imperial politics, equalled only by the ancient Syndicate. It was this ascendancy that also made them many powerful enemies, not the least of which was the close knit board of the Syndicate itself. Unused, and entirely opposed, to sharing power with upstarts, they began to carefully and slowly draw their plans against them.

It was during this period that the Empire was engaged in several conflicts with the Gorn, repeated enagements that demanded ever increasing expenditure of resources to replace losses, and build new fleets. The Consortium, eager to expand their influence bid aggressively for these contracts, winning many. New yards in Rigel began to turn out ever increasing numbers of warships, and required yet more labour. The workforce was significantly expanded with draftings from Chelar and yet more fresh abductions from surrounding species.
During the course of these forced recruitments, and in order to maintain a steady supply, the Consortium proceeded to directly annexe several of these planets, including the homeworlds of the: Jelna, Zami, Raylar, V'gel and Bodas species. Establishing Orion lead administration and military fortess-capitals upon them.
In an effort to prevent any one species from gaining to much critical mass in the event of a nationalist revolt, a series of forced relocations occured across the Rigel system distributing many slave populations across Chelar, Kolar and the system's mining outposts. These callous and cruel acts laid the seeds for Rigel's multicultural future.

Slavery in the Rigel sector as in much of the Orion Empire was not an inescapable situation, and it was not uncommon, thought quite difficult, for a slave to earn their freedom. Thus over time a sizeable Freed population began to develop within Rigel with enclaves thougout the system. Looked down upon and generally discriminated against by Orions the Freed drew together to form their own society, though from different species and they found common ground and developed their own language and customs. A culture that was both common and unique to Rigel. Despite discrimination, several Free Rigellians managed to become build sucessful businesses, and strived to achieve a measure of acceptance within Orion Imperial society.

In 658CE, as the most recent war with the Gorn wound down, political shifts within the Empire led to a new trend of inward looking policies. The sharp drop in lucrative military contracts caught the Consortium flatfooted. The vast military-industrial machine they had built in Rigel was now no longer profitable, and they scrambled to rediversfy. However they found that commanding market positions in many sectors had already been attained by Syndicate subsidaries and their affiliates. To compete the Consortium was forced to drastically cut costs, conditions for the Rigel labour force rapidly deteriorated, and the cost of buying freedom rose prohibitively.
In an effort to reduce reliance on costly and maintenance intensive automation, slaving efforts were redoubled. Harsh debtor laws were enacted, which ensnared Free Rigellians back into indentured servitude.

Incensed by this curtailment of their rights, the Free Rigellians appealed to the Imperial Bureaucracy. However they distant Orion Empire paid them little heed, and in any case was hesitant to interfere with an area under the control of the still powerful Consortium.
Discontent spread like wildfire in the Rigel system across slave and Free communities alike. Symbols and stories of the long ago Chelonian Rebellion began to appear,and strikes and protests became common.
The Consortium reacted harshly, cracking down on any dissent with violent and overwhelming force. However the message kept spreading, and soon weapons and materiwl began to be stockpiled among rapidly growing resistance cells, provided in secret by agents of the Syndicate.


The Second Rebellion
The Second Rebellion, or the Rigellian Mutiny as the Empire referred to it, was not just limited to Chelar. All across Rigel, and in several other systems of the Rigel sector a massive simultaneous uprising occured in 682CE. It caught the Consortium by suprise, and many security units were overun, quickly giving the rebels access to heavy equipment, advanced weapons, and even starships.
Though unprepared, the Consortium wasnt without resolve, and acted to crush the uprising with all the force the could bring to bear. The considerable military hardware and large numbers of security troops the Consortium had built up were rapidly transported to the Rigel system. Pitched battles flared across the system and Consortium forces attempted to regain control, though at the same time commanders were ordered to try and preserve as much of the hypercorp's valuble infrastructre as possible. This handicap proved hard to work around, as rebel forces made sucessful defences of their holdings, and even gained ground.

Even as the battles raged the rebels set about building the foundations for the society free from the Consortium. They declared the formation of the Free Rigellian Republic in 684CE when rebel forces secured the northern hemisphere of Chelar. This new society was heavily based on Free Rigellian culture, mixed with heady revolutionary symbolism from the brief Chelonian Republic. Despite Orion chauvinism, many lower class Orions also participated in the revolution, eager to be free of the Consortium's chains.

Meanwhile news of the Rebellion spread to the Empire's core worlds, and proved deeply embarrssing for the Consortium, many rivals used the opportunity to undermine them, not least the Syndicate. Imperial authorities however were alarmed at the scale of the revolt, and feared the consequences if it were to spread to the rest of the Empire. Significant pressure was applied to the Consortium, to end the rebellion quickly.

When Consortium security forces were forced to evacuate from Chelar, the tone of the conflict changed. Restrictions on infrastructure damage were rescinded, and a wave of atrocities was unleashed. Stations that fell to the rebels were destroyed, and direct orbital fire was used on rebel controlled settlements on Kolar. By 686 CE much of the Rigel system was in ruins.
Consortium forces marshalled for a great offensive that would break the rebels' resistance, desperate to end the conflict the executive board appealed to the Imperial Military for aid. The call was answered and heavy units of the Imperial Orion Navy arrived to crush the Mutiny.
The rebels fought hard, but they were outgunned, and with a heavy blockade of the system in place were running out of supplies. By 687CE the Free Rigellian Republic formally surrendered on Chelar. The Second Rebellion was over.
The terms offered by the empire were suprisingly magnaminous, most of the slaves were of course returned to servitude, and the Republic's leadership was either executed or enslaved, however the Imperial court deemed the Consortium to have been at fault. The Rigel Consortium and all it's holdings were nationalised, and the Rigel Sector was incorporated as an Imperial Province to be ruled by a Viceroy. New rights and protections were confirmed for both slaves and Free Rigellians. As well as limited representation for non-Orions in the province's government.

It was hoped that these measures, along with the convincing way armed resistance had been descisively crushed by the Imperial Military would prevent an further uprisings in Rigel or elsewhere.
However the Orion hypercorporations that had eagerly anticipated reaping the fruit of the Consortium's fall were bitterly dissapointed by the nationalisation, especially the Syndicate. The accusations of Imperial overreach in this matter would be one of the first cracks in the Orion Empire.



A/N: I didn't think there would be that much of this, but I kind of got into it.
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Space India? Space India!

Very Nice

Also, I wonder if you should slip those dates back by about a half millennia to a millennia? The Orion Empire seems to have fully started to engage in Maximum critical exsistance failure around that time, which is what gave the Romulans room to set themselves up and for the Vulcans and Andorians et al to start figuring their stuff out.

Briefvoice said:
Just a comment on your Orion history, but my take is that the relationship between the modern day "Orion Syndicate" criminal organization and the Orion Syndicate of history is heavily disputed by experts. Basically the modern day Orion Syndicate took on a famous name and pretends to be a direct descendant of the old Empire's organization, but there's not a good case for any kind of continuity.

Modern Orion Syndicate = Old Empire Orion Syndicate about as much as Holy Roman Empire = Roman Empire.
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I actually see it more like the Relationship between the Roman Empire and the Catholic Church: The Orion Syndicate is the ghost of the Orion Empire enthroned atop its corpse.
 
AKuz said:
Space India? Space India!

Very Nice

Also, I wonder if you should slip those dates back by about a half millennia to a millennia? The Orion Empire seems to have fully started to engage in Maximum critical exsistance failure around that time, which is what gave the Romulans room to set themselves up and for the Vulcans and Andorians et al to start figuring their stuff out.
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I think the dates probably work. I never myself decided if the Orion Empire would fall ~700AD or ~1400AD, partially because the history of the Klingons in general and the Hur'q more specifically is kinda murky.
 
lbmaian said:
I'm up for it. I think you had planned an Excelsior cost infusion in 2315 and I'm like 90% sure it won't be needed with the recent +10/sr and the upcoming SR tech, so that "saved" 25pp can be shifted earlier to this year.
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Well... no. Basically 3215 depends on if we do indeed start the Ambassador Prototype that year. I expect it to be massively expensive, about 270sr on its own. (Remember, we pay 1.5x the price for the prototype.) If we start it and want to start other ships that year an Excelsior cost infusion will be nearly mandatory. If we don't, we probably don't need the cost infusion!

I'm also likely going to vote for any option that can increase our influence points against the Syndicate though.
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If such an option appears, sure. I don't see that reopening legislation will do that on its own, though.
 
lbmaian said:
As the Q1.M3 Master of Orion update indicated, it might have happened right in that month. Our total impact went from 197 to 206 in my tally.

However, I thought the Syndicate had their own resilience to our impact, so I'm actually surprised we breached the 200 impact threshold.
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Keeping in mind that we've only been hammering at the Syndicate since 2309.Q3, and it's now 2312.Q1... we're looking at most 3 years of resilience. The Syndicate's resilience would have to be 40 to produce the 80 threshold. I don't know if that's realistic or not, but it certainly seems very substantial if true.
 
Briefvoice said:
Well... no. Basically 3215 depends on if we do indeed start the Ambassador Prototype that year. I expect it to be massively expensive, about 270sr on its own. (Remember, we pay 1.5x the price for the prototype.) If we start it and want to start other ships that year an Excelsior cost infusion will be nearly mandatory. If we don't, we probably don't need the cost infusion!
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You are still missing this particular tech completion that's coming up this research phase:
OneirosTheWriter said:
35 / 40 Faraday-Bevak Subspace Damper Mesh (Special Refining Techniques II) (+5 to Mining Colony annual production)
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By EOY we'll have 5 SR-producing colonies, so this would net us +25sr/yr. With the Corvo system colony which I'm pretty sure we're purchasing this year, by 2313 EOY, this tech will get us +30sr/yr.

Briefvoice said:
If such an option appears, sure. I don't see that reopening legislation will do that on its own, though.
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Remember how the post-Caitian-ratification Council emergency session back in 2310 got us +5 influence (to total 6 influence to spend due to 1 left over from 2309), and how the lost 25pp of the Caitian ratification was practically like buying the anti-Syndicate legislation amendment snakepit option?

I'm hoping that actually buying that anti-Syndicate legislation amendment snakepit option also gets us +5 influence to spend.

@OneirosTheWriter, can you confirm that?
 
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It's entirely possible their resilience lowers whenever we cross a threshold due to accruing too much damage and losing too many resources. That could mean that it gets easier the longer we go on.
 
Tylonius said:
It's entirely possible their resilience lowers whenever we cross a threshold due to accruing too much damage and losing too many resources. That could mean that it gets easier the longer we go on.
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It's also entirely possible that resilience increases when we cross a threshold as resources that were previously available go to ground or all the easy-to-find, low-hanging targets are already hit. Can't really say which, if either.

Realistically the Syndicate should have resources with hitpoints like we do, but that may be too much simulation for Oneiros.
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
It's also entirely possible that resilience increases when we cross a threshold as resources that were previously available go to ground or all the easy-to-find, low-hanging targets are already hit. Can't really say which, if either.

Realistically the Syndicate should have resources with hitpoints like we do, but that may be too much simulation for Oneiros.
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It could work the opposite direction, the more damage you go, the harder it is to hurt them more because they're keeping their head down and only operating through well hidden reserves and mind-controlled proxies.
 
OneirosTheWriter said:
One Excelsior-class ship (Starfleet Build Order NCC-2021) to commence at Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards Berth A in 2312.Q2
One Excelsior-class ship (Starfleet Build Order NCC-2022) to commence at Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards Berth C in 2312.Q2

One Centaur-A class ship (Starfleet Build Order NCC-2124) to commence at San Francisco Fleet Yards Berth 1 in 2312.Q4
One Centaur-A class ship (Starfleet Build Order NCC-2125) to commence at San Francisco Fleet Yards Berth 2 in 2312.Q4

One Constitution-B class ship (Starfleet Build Order NCC-1752) to commence at Lor'Vela OCF Berth 1 in 2312.Q2

Refit of USS Shield (NCC-1661) to Miranda-A spec to commence at Utopia Planitia Berth 1 in 2312.Q2
Refit of USS Fidelity (NCC -1634) to Miranda-A spec to commence at Utopia Planitia Berth 2 in 2312.Q2
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Incidentally, the Kearsage repair should have begun in 2312.Q1 in 40 Eridani A Berth A.
 
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OneirosTheWriter said:
Defiant and Valiant come out this year, those two ships come out next year. Yes, you built rather a number of these Connies!
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Uuuuuuh... Hang on.

Hood and Lexington come out of Mars in 2312Q2. Republic, likewise, from Andoria. Then we have two more Constitution-Bs finishing at San Francisco, coming out 2312Q4. One of those is Korolev, the other is unnamed.

Those are the five we get this year, all of which were laid down in 2309.

Then we get two more from Vulcan (2313Q1, the same time Odyssey comes out of Utopia Planitia). Those two ConnieBees were laid down in 2310

One more from Tellar (last quarter of construction, 2314Q1), and one more from Andoria (last quarter of construction, 2315Q1), laid down in 2311 and 2312, respectively.

So at least one of the pair "Defiant and Valiant" has to be coming out in 2313, unless you're retconning one or more of the ship names in my omake. Which I'm okay with but I didn't know you were doing that.

Plus, Odyssey is a ship coming out in 2313Q1, so doesn't it seem logical that the other ships whose names we voted on at the same time would also be ships coming out in 2313?

lbmaian said:
Hmm, we need some actual predictable policy about the escort/cruiser/explorer classification. They currently impact game mechanics in doctrines and (for now) build time. edit: oh and different global tech values in the old ship design spreadsheet, but that's kinda going away in the new one.

But it's unclear how these classifications change over time, even considering the scale increase techs - like, why would a Constellation-A refit still be classified as a cruiser, while the Constitution-B was downgraded from explorer to cruiser? Or like, would the 2.4mt cruiser design tech suddenly reclassify our Excelsiors or only until after a refit?
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Cheron is still being counted as an explorer for certain important purposes (like ability to successfully accompany the Kadeshi). That's your precedent right there. Do we have firm information on how they're being counted for other purposes like Combat cap? Do we have that tech that lowers explorer contributions to the Combat cap? I forget.

I don't think we're going to get consistent classification rules until all the legacy designs are 'off the table.' The Constellation was just plain problematic, since it had a listed tonnage and statline as close as makes no difference to the Centaur-class escort.

We can hope to get better answers once we're NOT worrying about the status of the Constellations. However, past that point it's fairly clear what the differences are between cruisers and escorts: cruisers have much less spartan and trimmed-down facilities, probably including greater depth of redundancy and flexibility, but at the cost of higher crew demands and more systems integration. You can build escort-sized ships according to cruiser engineering principles and vice versa; there's just not much point. Small size synergizes with pared-down design philosophy, and large size synergizes with the idea of making room for more backups and more complexity. The reverse is not true.

TerrisH said:
200 threshold, not 80 threshold. we hit the 80 threshold a while back. I know were over 200 impact at this point. and I'm pretty shure it took longer to reach 80 impact then the time form 80 impact to 200 impact.

unless I have my math completely wrong.
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We don't know how much of that Impact actually stuck because we don't know Syndicate resilience. If the Syndicate resilience is "quite low," we maybe just crossed the 200 mark. In that case, the war is about one quarter over, the Syndicate has been drastically weakened, and the rest of the war is going to be at least LESS BAD than the part we've had so far.

If it's "frighteningly high," we just crossed the 80 mark, the Syndicate still has most of its strength, and we desperately need to start hitting the Syndicate harder.

We won't know which without more information.

lbmaian said:
As the Q1.M3 Master of Orion update indicated, it might have happened right in that month. Our total impact went from 197 to 206 in my tally.

However, I thought the Syndicate had their own resilience to our impact, so I'm actually surprised we breached the 200 impact threshold.
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If Syndicate resilience is literally zero, then you're right and that is GREAT news.

On the other hand, if Syndicate resilience is subtracting points each year, then given that the campaign has been going on through 2309, 2310, and 2311, if we just crossed the 80 threshold, then the Syndicate has a resilience of around 40 to our 10. Which is BAD news, and again means we really need to start cranking up Impact by any means possible or this war's going to go on forever.

It's hard to tell which, it really is, at least to me.

SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
Keeping in mind that we've only been hammering at the Syndicate since 2309.Q3, and it's now 2312.Q1... we're looking at most 3 years of resilience. The Syndicate's resilience would have to be 40 to produce the 80 threshold. I don't know if that's realistic or not, but it certainly seems very substantial if true.
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Given that the Syndicate seems to have multiple mechanisms of mind control and its core is a millenium-old cult-like structure with cell organization, and one that no Orion leadership has managed to dislodge in a long time...

I would be sad but not surprised if they have Resilience 40. If what we're doing to them is like, the minimum required to even be a threat to their long-term power in Orion society. As opposed to merely giving them a hard time and making them uncomfortable.
 
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