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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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AKuz said:
I am amused that we have soberly and sensibly come to a sound doctrinal reason for the hilarious Miranda spam of the Dominion War.

Also, I've got a couple of reasons why I think the Cardassians are backing reformers in the Bajoran system and not the entrenched establishment:

1) Bajorans have been isolationist for centuries if not millenia by this point. The establishment almost certainly thinks that alliance and affiliation with /any/ alien power is unnecessary and perhaps even heretical at this point.

2) Even the Cardassians don't think of themselves as the bad guys or oppressors. They often are, but as is the way of such things they obviously have good reasons. The Cardassians seem to view themselves as hard nosed pragmatists making the hard calls. Upsetting an ancient and stagnant hierarchy to increase efficiency could well be part of that. They simply don't see any value in a caste system that would tell them "we simply cannot increase our ore quotas because we don't have that many miners and they don't increase in number". There may also be a practical reason for adopting the reformers side: it gives them a ready made pool of dedicated and enthusiastic collaborators working for the "common good". (As they seemed to have right up to the end in canon)

3) As a consequence of 1 and 2 the Cardassians most likely contacts are with the reform minded as the people in charge won't give them more than the time of day. I suspect our own contacts were better recieved by the establishment specifically as a counterweight to growing Cardassian backed calls for reform. Otherwise they would have told us to fuck off too as there is some evidence that their caste system is more entrenched than the /Apiatan's/ (The Apiatan are not as worried about the possibility of it going away one day as it is biological in origin rather than theological)

4) EU sources tend to lean towards that interpretation IIRC.

5) The official line is that the caste system withered away due to the needs of the resistance. This is unlikely to happen unless the caste system proved that it was not up to the task as a people as universally... fanatical as the Bajorans would not give up on such a tradition easily (Witness how readily they tried to read readopt it when they thought such was the will of the "True" emissary) This implies that the caste system fought the Cardassians and lost. Incidentally, this is why I suspect that the first phase of the resistance will be fanatically religious in character for a couple decades until a generation or two watches the caste heir achy smash itself to bits and failing against the Cardassians.
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I think the Cardassians being pro-reformist is most likely, for the reasons you have listed.

Considering this I beleive there were probably three stages to the occupation.
The first stage would be the Cardassian assisted coup by pro reform theocrats within the Bajoran government. They would have mostly seen the Cardassians as useful tools with which to achieve their own aims. Their goals aren't that radical, and they aim to continue on mostly as before, only with them in power, and a few necessary reforms.
They may even have believed that accepting Cardassian suzreignty was the only way to ensure the isolation of Bajoran culture from foreign influences (eg. the awful immoral hedonistic Federation.) This first stage will likely be the shortest, maybe lasting as little as five years.

The second stage would have occurred as the moderate reformism of the coupists would have come up against the Cardassian's own ideas of what Bajoran society should be. This may have been a gradual transition or a quick one, but Cardassian soft, and later hard power would have been irrefutable. The Theocrats would have been pushed out and replaced by a secularist utilitarian, puppet government with a modernising agenda.
This is when the resistance would have got serious and would have definitely had a religious bent. The caste system would have rapidly dissapeared and resource extraction would have dramatically increased. However there still would nominally have been a Bajoran government.

In the third and final stage we see the Occupation described in DS9 begin to take shape. The collaborationist puppet government would have tried its best to fulfill Cardassian demands in the face of rising resistance and probably struggled on until the 2440s. However then increasing violence on Bajor, leading to a decrease in productivity would have coincided with severe resource shortages throughout the Cardassian Union. The Cardassians would have taken a hard line, and eventually either an event is manufactured or a real incident is used as an excuse to portray the puppet government as incompetent and justify a direct occupation under a Cardassian lead administration.
This would be the same era that featured agressive Cardassian resource hungry expansionism that lead them into conflict with the Federation.
On Bajor the previously religious opposition was probably mostly under control by Bajoran internal troops, and Cardassian military aid, likely reduced to one or two big showy terrorist attacks a year. The direct occupation would have reinvigorated it, with a massive influx of previously moderate Bajorans who had until now tolerated the 'hands-off' Cardassian interference of the previous era.
The last vestiges of the caste system would have slipped away as every recruit to the resistance was needed to fight the hated invaders.

Collaborators would still have been pretty common in the early days of direct occupation, but gradually the Cardssians would have come to see them as unrelaible, not without some cause. (Posing as collaborators is a good way for the resistance to inflitrate them.) Tme military effort would have become almsot totally Cardassianized, and almost all major positions are filled with Cardassians. This would have further alienated the few pro-Cardassian Bajorans left, bolstering the insurgency.
This is the era Kira Nerys grew up in, as the Cardassians grow ever harsher in their demand for more resources, and in the face of increasingly fanatical Bajoran resistance. The stalemate against the Federation in the war likely only made things worse for the Bajorans. As they are forced to garrison Bajor with ever more trops the Cardassians become increasingly brutal, leading to the excesses we are told of during DS9.

What we end up with is very much a the paradigm of the harder the Cardassians tigtned their grip, the more that slipped though their grasp. Until eventually Bajor became such a burden upon them that they are forced to end the occupation, and cast it loose. (Increasing Federation pressure, alarmed at the plight of the Bajorans, would have likely influenced this as well.)
 
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Captain's Log - 2311.Q4.M1
  • Threadmarks
    • Captain's Log, USS Enterprise, Stardate 24543.2 - Captain Samhaya Mrr'shan

    We have received a curious faint distress beacon that the universal translator had difficulty with. After consulting with Commander Leaniss, we have elected to follow up on it. After recent events in these sectors, we will take care that it is not a trap call.

    -

    Captain's Log, USS Bull, Stardate 24543.6 - Captain Kwame Okoye

    I have completed the mapping assessment originally undertaken by the ill-fated USS Lion. Whether it is because of the anomaly experienced recently, or natural occurrences, space-time in the Aga Carmide system is turbulent. More than that, it is fascinating. There is much to learn here, much to see, and study.

    I am recommending to Starfleet that a research colony be established in Aga Carmide. By our estimates, it will be well over a thousand years before some of the pockets of curvature flatten again, making a colony well-worth it.

    [New Research Colony Option, Aga Carmide system, 7rp/year]

    -

    Captain's Log, USS S'harien, Stardate 24544.4 - Captain Saavik

    After arriving in the Forcardia system, my science officer reported encountering a Qloathian subspace wake within the system. While searching the system for signs of the ship, we received a tight-beam communication from within the outer atmospheric layers of a Class N world. It had Qloathian authentication, and requested that we cease use of broad scanning of the system with our lateral sensor arrays and approach the second planet, where the signal originated. This infuriated Dr Zhivago and his embarked science team, however, we have decided to comply and approach the Class N world.

    The dense clouds, replete with sulfuric gases, and powerful magnetic field, prevented effective scanning in any event.

    -

    Captain's Log, USS Gale, Stardate 24545.6 - Captain Gorth th'Hashok

    While helping Turtleships examine the fringes of our newly claimed space, we have encountered an M-Class world coreward of Rigel known as Ogote II. It is a rather large planet for an M Class, and the gravity is almost prohibitive, though I believe many of our Tellarites are handling it quite well. I have dispatched a number of science teams to the surface to examine the environment up close to learn more about it.

    -

    Captain's Log, USS Enterprise, Stardate 24546.7

    By following the beacon we have discovered an ancient ship, heavily damaged by unknown weapons fire. Almost nothing outside of the beacon itself still works, and the ship's wounds are deep and savage, almost like a big cat's raking claws than anything nadionic in nature. We donned vacuum duty suits and beamed aboard to investigate her. The Hruk-kratuk if the Universal Translator is correctly analysing the various audio and visual cues correctly.

    Getting to work in the old dead hulk has been a thrilling experience, to be honest. Away from the comforts of the Enterprise, it has been a real experience with the deep of space.

    -

    Captain's Log, USS S'harien, Stardate 24546.8

    Within the upper atmosphere of the N class world was a Qloathian explorer, a sleak arrowhead ship of about two megatons. The Ride of Jolly Lagan, by the Universal Translator, or Torqui Leb Lagan by the Qloathian language. Their Captain came aboard by shuttlecraft and explained to us the phenomenon they were chasing. A transient subspace eddy, it was bouncing around the starsystem in a pattern that defies current attempts at explanation. We do know, however, that many of our conventional sensor systems cause the eddy to displace, and a number of other signs of a modern starship, which is why the Jolly Lagan was hiding.

    The good Dr Zhivago and his science team went back with the Captain, believing that they had ideas for how to interlink our sensors and properly track this eddy.

    -

    Captain's Log, USS Gale, Stardate 24547.2

    I have many letters to many families to write, I'm afraid. Several of our science teams were butchered during the night by creatures that shifted form and became aggressive when confronted with the additional gravitational tides of a particular lunar cycle.

    [1 Technician Casualty sustained]

    -

    Captain's Log, USS S'harien, Stardate 24547.7

    We have successfully tracked down this elusive eddy and properly analysed it. As valuable as this is, my senior staff and I are of the opinion that this successful cooperation with our Qloathi allies has been even more important. Captain Nin Ocarsis has been an interesting colleague in this exercise. I find that the Qloathi are like humans except without some of the illogical absurdities and predilections for "mad science". Ideal humans, in other words.

    I am told this is likely to become a play in Arquenious' major theatre districts. I am ... ambivalent about this prospect.

    [+5 rp, +25 Relations with Qloathi]
    -

    Personal Log, Captain Samhaya Mrr'shan, Stardate 24548.5

    I've enjoyed playing the archeologist over the last few days. I have been working closely with Commander Leaniss, my old comrade. At one point we sat on the decking overlooking one of the great gouges of the ship, just looking out at the nebula beyond and the stars that shine in their billions in that great Milky Way ribbon, whose light has travelled so many times my own lifespan to reach us. "Space is the only thing I can think of," Leaniss told me, "That we both fight against, but also fight for. It loves us, yet if we lose our focus even once, it will swallow us up."

    We found a number of fascinating design ideas in the ancient ship, but I think the biggest thing for me was rediscovering a bit of the wonder of space.

    [+5rp, Enterprise +1 Crew Rating, now Elite]

    -
     
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    • Briefvoice said:
    Notably in terms of open positions, there's also a Rear Admiral position (for Starbase 8 around Vega) and a Commodore position (for command of the SBZ fleet) that have opened up. Starfleet's expansion sure has opened up a lot of more senior positions.
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    OneirosTheWriter said:
    Part of why Seruk is freaking out a little, haha. It's eased off the up or out buuuut it also means a lot of people less qualified than the norm are ending up in surprisingly senior positions.
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    Briefvoice said:
    I have always been a little dubious about the kind of emergency that would would allow "spamming" ships. Even Escorts have a two year build time, and furthermore our berths are nearly constantly occupied so we'd have a lot of partially build ships finishing before we could start escorts in their place. So we're talking about an "emergency" that we see coming three or four years in advance and are confident enough is inevitable to change our build strategy.

    A lot of people seem pretty sure we're going to end up at war with the Cardassians sooner or later, but I got a decidedly mixed reaction to the idea of building even one Miranda-A, much less spamming them. If 'probable war with the Cardassians' doesn't cut it for an emergency we see coming years out, what will? (Okay, other than the very specific circumstances of Q showing the Enterprise the Borg in TNG.... and even then they didn't actually have enough time to really start spamming escorts.)
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    Part of why I want a modernized current-gen escort now. Doesn't really matter if it's a far cheaper, smaller crew Centaur-A, or a tiny patrol ship, it would fill both the possibility of an armed conflict, and the need to cultivate ship captains.

    Some people, myself included, don't feel good about spamming older or obviously inefficient ships with glaring issues, like the Miranda-A and Centaur-A. I would certainly invest in a build program, both the design and the berths, for cheaper, smaller crew versions.
     
    OneirosTheWriter said:
    Captain's Log, USS S'harien, Stardate 24547

    We have successfully tracked down this elusive eddy and properly analysed it. As valuable as this is, my senior staff and I are of the opinion that this successful cooperation with our Qloathi allies has been even more important. Captain Nin Ocarsis has been an interesting colleague in this exercise. I find that the Qloathi are like humans except without some of the illogical absurdities and predilections for "mad science". Ideal humans, in other words.

    I am told this is likely to become a play in Arquenious' major theatre districts. I am ... ambivalent about this prospect.

    -
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    Did you forget to include the rp (and relationship) reward or will this event continue?
     
    ThoughtMaster said:
    No, honestly, the Romulans are likely the last people who would want to get involved in the neutral zone, for they are too busy dealing with the Klingons. My guess is that this is merely the Naggarok finally revealing itself. ... oh dear.
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    Welp time to bust out the pest control gear again.

    i'd guess that failing to be as effective as it hoped the beast hive mind took the few ships it managed to escape with and hunted down it's origin point.

    Either that or it just ate several previously unknown neutral zone civs and now is going to hurl planetship's at us shadow raiders style.
     
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    OneirosTheWriter said:
    Captain's Log, USS Gale, Stardate 24545.6 - Captain Gorth th'Hashok

    While helping Turtleships examine the fringes of our newly claimed space, we have encountered an M-Class world coreward of Rigel known as Ogote II. It is a rather large planet for an M Class, and the gravity is almost prohibitive, though I believe many of our Tellarites are handling it quite well. I have dispatched a number of science teams to the surface to examine the environment up close to learn more about it.

    -



    Captain's Log, USS Gale, Stardate 24547.2

    I have many letters to many families to write, I'm afraid. Several of our science teams were butchered during the night by creatures that shifted form and became aggressive when confronted with the additional gravitational tides of a particular lunar cycle.

    [1 Technician Casualty sustained]-
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    ....Fucking werewolves?????
     
    Vilegrave said:
    Welp time to bust out the pest control gear again.

    i'd guess that failing to be as effective as it hoped the beast hive mind took the few ships it managed to escape with and hunted down it's origin point.

    Either that or it just ate several previously unknown neutral zone civs and now is going to hurl planetship's at us shadow raiders style.
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    The former I would assume, but I honestly would be suprized if the Beast attacked us from the neutral zone again. If I were a betting man, I would expect that the beast ships would have gone coreward after their loss of their base of operations. After exiting the uncovered portion of the neutral zone, they likely directed themselves to locating the Naggarok, consuming any lifeforms they come across in their path.
     
    NOT ON SHIPBUILDING:

    Iron Wolf said:
    EDIT: Plus it seems to me that the coup as-described in the last update was one group of theological oligarchs removing another group of theological oligarchs. The latter group might be 'reformers' but it's possible they're not really 'radical'.
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    I dunno. They could be the Bajoran equivalent of Protestants- just as religiously motivated as the hierarchy they're splitting away from, but with very different opinions about how religion and society should be structured.

    Imagine if aliens had landed in 1545, helped John Calvin overthrow the Catholic Church, and establish his trusted co-schismatics as the leadership in Rome. From the point of view of a different group of aliens, that would look a lot like "one group of theological oligarchs replacing another," but it would result in HUGE changes to European culture and history.

    AKuz said:
    There is a deep Irony in Enterprise only becoming Elite after Nash has left her.
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    They were obviously 90% of the way there when she left, and they never would have gotten there if not for her managing to keep her crew alive so that it could shake into tip-top condition over the years. Courageous and Sarek started with the same crew ratings as Enterprise, remember- but Sarek took heavy losses during the Biophage crisis, and Courageous suffered the same in the mine strike.

    So I'd argue that this is a testament to Nash's ability to cultivate a crew- that she pushed them hard enough and taught them well enough that they can do their jobs under another (highly competent in her own right) captain. Nobody else has pulled that off yet; for all we know this may be the first Elite starship we've had since the 2260s. Honestly, given how many redshirts were lost during Kirk's five-year mission, it's entirely possible that the Elite status of the Enterprise may have been whittled down to Veteran by 2270; the credit for making that Elite crew might properly belong to Christopher Pike.

    SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
    I have a feeling than when this 5YM is over we'll be seeing Leaniss's name on the EC panel.
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    About time we see an Amarki. :)

    Torgamous said:
    Going from first contact to running the contactor's fleet in a single lifetime? The Cardassian intelligence analysts would engineer themselves to grow hair just so they could pull it out in frustration.
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    Not just that. If it happens, she's going from random first season love interest to head of Starfleet.


    ON SHIPBUILDING:

    AKuz said:
    I am amused that we have soberly and sensibly come to a sound doctrinal reason for the hilarious Miranda spam of the Dominion War.
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    More or less, although hopefully by the 2360s we'll have a spammable escort class that is (compared to the Miranda) cheaper, fightier, or both.

    But yeah. A really serious war mobilization for the Federation at the moment would probably involve us grabbing every berth we can find in Federation space big enough to accomodate a 660-kiloton ship, and using them to rush-build Miranda-As.

    SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
    Part of why I want a modernized current-gen escort now. Doesn't really matter if it's a far cheaper, smaller crew Centaur-A, or a tiny patrol ship, it would fill both the possibility of an armed conflict, and the need to cultivate ship captains.

    Some people, myself included, don't feel good about spamming older or obviously inefficient ships with glaring issues, like the Miranda-A and Centaur-A. I would certainly invest in a build program, both the design and the berths, for cheaper, smaller crew versions.
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    Spamming old designs really only makes sense in the context of imminent war, where we need the ships NOW and can't wait five years for a new design project and prototype cycle to bear fruit.

    I honestly support the idea of us starting a new escort design in the near future, if we can come up with a satisfactory one. The big problem is deciding what constitutes "satisfactory." We might need some kind of official 'build doctrine' vote in the main thread. One where everyone lines up and says "okay, which of these types of escorts are we trying to build," so that the SDB crew has some guidance in figuring out what they're trying to optimize the ship for.
     
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