I don't think so.

Historically, oppressive conquerors have used the existing infrastructure of their subjects to keep them oppressed. We know the Cardassians made extensive use of Bajoran "collaborators" during the occupation. Why would they not reinforce the caste system and choose collaborators from among the ruling caste, thus getting native cultural inertia on their side?

The easiest answer I can think of is that the Cardassians abolished the caste system as part of their initial conquest, and had collaborators among its opponents.
True, although this may have simply been because they viewed the religious hierarchy and its well-established connections among the people as more of a threat to their interests than a bunch of would-be revolutionaries who lacked such connections, and would be more dependent on Cardassian backing.

At the same time, though, the official line is "the caste system was suspended/abolished so that everyone could focus on resisting the Cardassians and fighting them." Presumably Bajor had a designated soldier-caste before the Occupation, but that wasn't going to be enough, especially if the Cardassians systematically targeted the soldier-caste for persecution and oppression.

So it's all a bit muddled, and at this point I wouldn't be surprised by almost anything that happens. The general trend is almost certain to lead towards increased Cardassian control and brutality, but the path by which it gets there is uncertain.

That is an option, but I think we should, from time to time, have studies on the construction of military escorts, just in case we need to rush such a design into prototype and production. mind you, we won't be able to do this often, but having the groundwork done in case of dire need could save us a lot of hardship
Maybe. But for the moment, that seems kind of pointless if the best we can do is, say, a 4-2-2-4-1-2 escort that costs as much as a Centaur-A.

If that's the best we can do in terms of a reasonably optimized fighting escort, then we should probably just stick with the "in case of emergency spam Miranda-As" idea, and revisit the "new fighting escort design" a decade from now.
 
Well, I have considered developing somewhat from the shuttle attack sequence.

Multiply hull and shield by ten, and take from them a random integer between 1 and current combat of the firing ship.
Numbers may need tweaking though, since I'm worried that combat would get bogged down - I think a prototypical battle between two escorts with C3 H2 L2 should still finish in about 6 turns. Or maybe turns don't matter much here, since combat is practically continuous? But still, anything that depends on turn count, like escape time, will have to be balanced against overall combat rate.

Thinking about this some more, in order to have ships have approximately the same "rate of fire" regardless of fleet size during a battle, turns must approximately be inversely proportional to time. Which means that the larger the battle, the faster/shorter any "# turns"-based mechanic operates, so e.g. the larger the fleet size, the faster and more likely a ship can escape the battle if it attempts to.

This isn't a new phenomenon, but I think it bears revisiting.

Partly because if shield regeneration is based off "# turns", it's going to be really broken in large battles. And partly because if combat is revised to be "slower" with combat-based damage and X10 hull/shield factors, "# turns" will have to be rebalanced anyway.

Fleet hit % may also need to be tweaked to depend less on combat, since now combat is even more critical when it's already the most important stat in fleet battles. Perhaps have fleet hit % depend on both combat and defense, but still mostly the former?

Did some more prelim analysis on this. The way the combat stat can affect both damage and fleet hit % can result in counter-intuitive results.

Here's a simplified combat model, where combat = damage (no RNG), round-robin ship selection and targeting, and all ships have equivalent all-shield durability (to make hull/shields non-factors, or at least that ships in a fleet will die about simultaneously).

C6 (Excelsior) vs enemy C8
avg damage per turn: 6^1.15/(6^1.15+8^1.15)*6 ~= 2.51

C6 (Excelsior) + C3 (Centaur-A or Miranda-A) vs enemy C8
avg damage per turn: 9^1.15/(9^1.15+8^1.15)*(6+3)/2 = 2.40

If ship durability were taken into account, then the avg damage over time is lower, but that's compensated by the ships surviving longer to deal more overall damage. So if I were to try computing total damage over the time it would take for the enemy to destroy both ships, with the simplification that the enemy doesn't die (modeling damage over time for both fleets isn't easy and approaches differential equation territory...?), I get:

C6 L9 (Excelsior) vs enemy C8 L∞
avg turns before death: 90/(8^1.15/(6^1.15+8^1.15)*8) = 19.331
avg total damage before death: 6^1.15/(6^1.15+8^1.15)*6*90/(8^1.15/(6^1.15+8^1.15)*8) = 48.487
avg damage per turn: 48.487/19.331 = 2.508

C6 L9 (Excelsior) + C3 L5 (Centaur-A or Miranda-A) vs enemy C8 L∞
avg turns before death: (50+50)/(8^1.15/(9^1.15+8^1.15)*8) + (90-50)/(8^1.15/(6^1.15+8^1.15)*8) = 35.405
avg total damage before death: 9^1.15/(9^1.15+8^1.15)*((6*50+3*50)/2/(8^1.15/(9^1.15+8^1.15)*8) + 6*(90-50)/(8^1.15/(6^1.15+8^1.15)*8)) = 59.722
avg damage per turn: 59.722/35.405 = 1.687

So despite the lower avg damage per turn, the Excelsior+Miranda-A/Centaur-A should still win. Still looks odd though. Peculiarly how more damage starts being dealt when the Centaur-A/Miranda-A dies, leaving the half-shields Excelsior by itself.

Might have made a mistake somewhere. I think I'd have to write a combat simulator to verify, but that's more effort than I'm willing to spend at the moment. And obviously, this is only a single set of examples.

Altogether, I'm beginning to think that a RPG-esque rounds + initiative system (think D&D) would work better than this turns + fleet hit % system.



Another option that addresses your concerns (by creating a useful reason for combat-focused explorer-sized ships to exist) would be if larger ships get bonuses to shield regeneration once we get higher in the tech tree, due to greater total power generation capability.

Yeah, this got me thinking about how shield regeneration is going to work, leading to above thoughts.

That is an option, but I think we should, from time to time, have studies on the construction of military escorts, just in case we need to rush such a design into prototype and production. mind you, we won't be able to do this often, but having the groundwork done in case of dire need could save us a lot of hardship

Well, while it's a good idea to have military designs ready for emergencies, I don't see how this could really work with the way the whole ship design process works. In order to get a new design into production, we have to spend pp for even get approval to start the design project. Then we have to build a prototype - and currently this is longest part of the new ship design process. Also, if the design would have a militarisation cost (C-D>2 is one way to get militarisation cost), it's unclear how that will work out - the cost might get applied when we trying to get approval from the Council, or it could be applied per ship build, including the prototype.

There just isn't a clear-cut way for us to design militarized ships to be ready for mass production in an emergency without actually spending pp to research the ship design project and build a prototype.

We can freely come up with design proposals, as is done in the SDB, but that's not the same as having such designs ready in a jiffy for a war.
 
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If that's the best we can do in terms of a reasonably optimized fighting escort, then we should probably just stick with the "in case of emergency spam Miranda-As" idea, and revisit the "new fighting escort design" a decade from now.

I have always been a little dubious about the kind of emergency that would would allow "spamming" ships. Even Escorts have a two year build time, and furthermore our berths are nearly constantly occupied so we'd have a lot of partially build ships finishing before we could start escorts in their place. So we're talking about an "emergency" that we see coming three or four years in advance and are confident enough is inevitable to change our build strategy.

A lot of people seem pretty sure we're going to end up at war with the Cardassians sooner or later, but I got a decidedly mixed reaction to the idea of building even one Miranda-A, much less spamming them. If 'probable war with the Cardassians' doesn't cut it for an emergency we see coming years out, what will? (Okay, other than the very specific circumstances of Q showing the Enterprise the Borg in TNG.... and even then they didn't actually have enough time to really start spamming escorts.)
 
I have always been a little dubious about the kind of emergency that would would allow "spamming" ships. Even Escorts have a two year build time, and furthermore our berths are nearly constantly occupied so we'd have a lot of partially build ships finishing before we could start escorts in their place. So we're talking about an "emergency" that we see coming three or four years in advance and are confident enough is inevitable to change our build strategy.

A lot of people seem pretty sure we're going to end up at war with the Cardassians sooner or later, but I got a decidedly mixed reaction to the idea of building even one Miranda-A, much less spamming them. If 'probable war with the Cardassians' doesn't cut it for an emergency we see coming years out, what will? (Okay, other than the very specific circumstances of Q showing the Enterprise the Borg in TNG.... and even then they didn't actually have enough time to really start spamming escorts.)
If we end up actually limited by max combat we will presumably have a lot of idle ship building capacity during peace time, and we have the ability to double ship building speed and requisition civilian shipyards (and presumably also the auxiliary shipyard we're building) during crises, so any war expected to last for more than a year would be a situation where building combat oriented escorts is likely to make sense.
 
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Besides, I imagine it's possible to significantly speed up the building process for war emergency builds, at the cost of reliability. It's a long tradition in shipbuilding, going back to building ships out of unseasoned timber in the Age of Sail. It leaks a bit? Eh, the guns work. Powerplant's cranky? Eh, the guns work. The crew hates the accommodations? It only makes design speed if the engineers have been leading particularly pure lives? The turbolift doors keep sticking? The replicators make everything too hot? We accidentally left a tool in one of the nacelles so the ship veers a little right at warp? Look, all we care about is that the guns work.
 
The crew in those seagoing ships still have a chance to survive even if the ship malfunctions or sinks.

As for the crew of a malfunctioning starship, however...

Space is more unforgiving than the sea.
 
The crew in those seagoing ships still have a chance to survive even if the ship malfunctions or sinks.

As for the crew of a malfunctioning starship, however...

Space is more unforgiving than the sea.

See, the thing is, the Defiant before it was refit was basically just like a war emergency design; temperamental, lots of breakdowns, unsafe at any speed moments, glass jaw.
 
Thinking about this some more, in order to have ships have approximately the same "rate of fire" regardless of fleet size during a battle, turns must approximately be inversely proportional to time. Which means that the larger the battle, the faster/shorter any "# turns"-based mechanic operates, so e.g. the larger the fleet size, the faster and more likely a ship can escape the battle if it attempts to.
I can come up with a good way to justify that- if there is a battle with many ships on each side, it is much more likely that a single endangered ship will be able to slip away in the confusion, especially if other ships of the fleet cover for it. Whereas a ship that is operating alone against an enemy that has it on the ropes is going to be pursued, and will have to actively break pursuit, giving the enemy more opportunities to fire into it.

Did some more prelim analysis on this. The way the combat stat can affect both damage and fleet hit % can result in counter-intuitive results.

Here's a simplified combat model, where combat = damage (no RNG), round-robin ship selection and targeting, and all ships have equivalent all-shield durability (to make hull/shields non-factors, or at least that ships in a fleet will die about simultaneously)...
What I'm honestly not understanding is why we even need a new combat engine. I don't think there's anything wrong with the combat engine; it's worked fine so far. It would make a lot more sense to tweak the existing combat engine slightly to 'buff' large combat-oriented ships than to completely rewrite the basis on which the engine operates.

Well, while it's a good idea to have military designs ready for emergencies, I don't see how this could really work with the way the whole ship design process works. In order to get a new design into production, we have to spend pp for even get approval to start the design project. Then we have to build a prototype - and currently this is longest part of the new ship design process. Also, if the design would have a militarisation cost (C-D>2 is one way to get militarisation cost), it's unclear how that will work out - the cost might get applied when we trying to get approval from the Council, or it could be applied per ship build, including the prototype.

There just isn't a clear-cut way for us to design militarized ships to be ready for mass production in an emergency without actually spending pp to research the ship design project and build a prototype.

We can freely come up with design proposals, as is done in the SDB, but that's not the same as having such designs ready in a jiffy for a war.
I agree, which is why I support your idea of tacitly encouraging some of our more belligerent member species to design combat-ready escorts that we could plausibly duplicate in a pinch.

I have always been a little dubious about the kind of emergency that would would allow "spamming" ships. Even Escorts have a two year build time, and furthermore our berths are nearly constantly occupied so we'd have a lot of partially build ships finishing before we could start escorts in their place. So we're talking about an "emergency" that we see coming three or four years in advance and are confident enough is inevitable to change our build strategy.

A lot of people seem pretty sure we're going to end up at war with the Cardassians sooner or later, but I got a decidedly mixed reaction to the idea of building even one Miranda-A, much less spamming them. If 'probable war with the Cardassians' doesn't cut it for an emergency we see coming years out, what will?
Well, my impression is that we DID have a reaction (of sorts) to the revelation of war with Cardassia looming. It was the revelation of just how powerful the Jaldun-class really was that got people so strongly motivated to push for the Renaissance and to develop the Constitution-B rebuild.

So there was a reaction to the prospect of war with Cardassia, at the time that this first arose. The catch is that people responded to the emergency by trying to get a better cruiser and mass-produce it, not a better escort.

I think what it comes down to is this:

The trouble with the "we're going to end up at war with Cardassia" meme is that we don't know when it's going to happen. We can't estimate or predict it. Ever since the Cardies showed up, we've been worrying that it might happen within five years, but we've also been hoping it wouldn't happen for another fifteen or twenty. And we know that our own actions play a huge role in whether or not the war actually occurs. Canon offers us very little in the way of guidelines about what to expect.

So it's the kind of problem that motivates you to build up your fleet... but you have to build up in such a way that you won't regret your actions if the war you're planning for doesn't materialize. For the Federation, that means we can't afford to build warships when we need peaceships, hence the push for generalist cruisers rather than specialized warships.

Also, I'm not sure most of the playerbase fully appreciated just how efficient a combat vessel the Miranda-A really was until about the last 2-3 years of gameplay (that is, early November). By the time people realized that we were already committed to the ConnieBee building wave, and the Rennies were coming up right on the heels of that. Which reduces interest in building a bunch of escorts, since the cruisers we've already committed to building represent our "response" to the Cardassian threat, at least in the short term.
 
We know that the caste system was largely stamped out over the course of the Occupation. Its reasonable to assume that the Cardassians and their lackeys were opposed to it.
As I recall from the episode where it's brought up (and Memory Alpha backs my memory), the Caste system was tossed aside by the Resistance in order to fight the Cardassians.

However, it's possible the Cardassians started 'de-castification' or supported parties who proposed it - parallels to the Soviets in Afghanistan - and the Resistance seized on it themselves. I'd have to see who talks about it in the episode. If like, Kira's the one explaining the history it's more than likely she cut out the Cardassian involvement :V
 
Something that I didn't consciously intend, but is kind of cool...

We moved the Endurance to the SBZ, which is currently our "hottest" sector in terms of potential for combat. We actively expect to be intercepting raiding parties. Chekhov is captain of the Endurance. That means that once more we've got back to the TOS crew to help fend off a crisis.

Notably in terms of open positions, there's also a Rear Admiral position (for Starbase 8 around Vega) and a Commodore position (for command of the SBZ fleet) that have opened up. Starfleet's expansion sure has opened up a lot of more senior positions.
 
And when Pavel Chekov smacks you into the middle of next week, he really smacks you into the middle of next week. ;)

By the way, not only do we have new openings for Starbase 8 and the SBZ commodore slot, I'm pretty sure we never actually refilled the CBZ commodore slot after pulling T'Lorel to go work for Uhura beating up the Syndicate.

Assuming a certain chief of Explorer Corps operations has gotten the bureaucratic polish she needs, I'd actually rather not send Nash to the Sydraxian border (because having her as commodore over Chekov just seems wrong somehow), but having her on the Cardassian border again sounds delightful...
 
Notably in terms of open positions, there's also a Rear Admiral position (for Starbase 8 around Vega) and a Commodore position (for command of the SBZ fleet) that have opened up. Starfleet's expansion sure has opened up a lot of more senior positions.
Part of why Seruk is freaking out a little, haha. It's eased off the up or out buuuut it also means a lot of people less qualified than the norm are ending up in surprisingly senior positions.

I might have an ad-hoc turn to vote on a number of officer assignments ahead of the Rat Race post. Hopefully people have been keeping the character database up to date :V
 
I've been doing my best. ;)

Now that Chekov's back from his presumed sabbatical, I can actually imagine him being fast-tracked to commodore. He's certainly got time in grade coming out the ears, even if he spent most of the time between 2295 and 2310 on extended leave from Starfleet or whatever.

EDIT:

We've probably got a lot of lieutenant commanders and commanders kicking around from the early days of the thread who have been unaccounted for since that time, come to think of it. Many of them will have made captain by now, and a fair number of the early captains will be flag rank. Not just the Explorer Corps candidates, either.
 
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I am amused that we have soberly and sensibly come to a sound doctrinal reason for the hilarious Miranda spam of the Dominion War.

Also, I've got a couple of reasons why I think the Cardassians are backing reformers in the Bajoran system and not the entrenched establishment:

1) Bajorans have been isolationist for centuries if not millenia by this point. The establishment almost certainly thinks that alliance and affiliation with /any/ alien power is unnecessary and perhaps even heretical at this point.

2) Even the Cardassians don't think of themselves as the bad guys or oppressors. They often are, but as is the way of such things they obviously have good reasons. The Cardassians seem to view themselves as hard nosed pragmatists making the hard calls. Upsetting an ancient and stagnant hierarchy to increase efficiency could well be part of that. They simply don't see any value in a caste system that would tell them "we simply cannot increase our ore quotas because we don't have that many miners and they don't increase in number". There may also be a practical reason for adopting the reformers side: it gives them a ready made pool of dedicated and enthusiastic collaborators working for the "common good". (As they seemed to have right up to the end in canon)

3) As a consequence of 1 and 2 the Cardassians most likely contacts are with the reform minded as the people in charge won't give them more than the time of day. I suspect our own contacts were better recieved by the establishment specifically as a counterweight to growing Cardassian backed calls for reform. Otherwise they would have told us to fuck off too as there is some evidence that their caste system is more entrenched than the /Apiatan's/ (The Apiatan are not as worried about the possibility of it going away one day as it is biological in origin rather than theological)

4) EU sources tend to lean towards that interpretation IIRC.

5) The official line is that the caste system withered away due to the needs of the resistance. This is unlikely to happen unless the caste system proved that it was not up to the task as a people as universally... fanatical as the Bajorans would not give up on such a tradition easily (Witness how readily they tried to read readopt it when they thought such was the will of the "True" emissary) This implies that the caste system fought the Cardassians and lost. Incidentally, this is why I suspect that the first phase of the resistance will be fanatically religious in character for a couple decades until a generation or two watches the caste heir achy smash itself to bits and failing against the Cardassians.
 
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I feel the Cardassians would have coopted the Caste system at first and then gently withered away some if not all of it as time went on, in order to combat the more egalitarian Resistance.

They're pragmatists, so like the British in India they'd see the massive value in keeping in place a system that lends instant legitimacy to whatever puppets they bring forward from the ruling class. They might keep that in place in particular for some time while relaxing other areas, such as the caste provisions for warriors, before abandoning it entirely in the face of the Resistance. They don't really care about it ideologically, just as a means of control.

So despite my continual love for paralleling the Soviet-Afghan conflict in the Cardassian occupation, I don't think whatever puppet government they have would be as relatively radical as the Afghan Communists the Soviets ended up propping up. Indeed, that would play nicely to them keeping the Federation away.

Although to be fair backing radical reformers who gained control in a coup would also put the Federation in a sticky political situation.

EDIT: Plus it seems to me that the coup as-described in the last update was one group of theological oligarchs removing another group of theological oligarchs. The latter group might be 'reformers' but it's possible they're not really 'radical'.
 
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11 events rolled this turn, not counting the two possible Flooding the Area events. Yeesh.

Wow. If I'm correct that means 11 out of 12 possible sectors/border zones got an event. (Apinae sector gets rolled for, right?) Which sector didn't get an event?

On top of our 'automatic' 5 Explorer events.... well, this is going to be a very interesting quarter, I guess.
 
Wow. If I'm correct that means 11 out of 12 possible sectors/border zones got an event. (Apinae sector gets rolled for, right?) Which sector didn't get an event?

On top of our 'automatic' 5 Explorer events.... well, this is going to be a very interesting quarter, I guess.
Sorry, 6 plus the 5 explorers. You'll see action in Sol, Amarkia, Ferasa, Rigel, RBZ, SBZ. Just to give you something to look forward to.
 
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