Knowing the Kadeshi predilections, I suspect that Pride of Kadesh is more a carrier than a battleship. Hull is probably excellent, don't get me wrong, but combat power is going to be relatively low- while the ship has an exceptional ability to use those industrial replicators to turn out escort vessels.
The thing is that said ship is substantially larger than a freaking starbase. It's got an internal explorer-rated shipyard, after all. Combat power is going to be low for it's size, but low for it's size isn't really saying very much when it's at least 2 OOM more massive than any mobile asset in the known galaxy.

@Nix
How are we on RP income/use? I KNOW the yearly income on the front page is out of date.
 
@Leila Hann , Given the Apiata's constraints (and those constraints are significant), they are doing a great job of illustrating how wolfpack/swarm tactics look.

The Apiata cannot afford a fleet with the total size and strength of ours; if they have 19 total ships then their total Combat score is probably about sixty plus or minus ten, compared to the Federation or Cardassian scores which are about 140 each. They just don't have the muscle to be really menacing wolfpack-eers on the scale of the major powers.

The thing is that said ship is substantially larger than a freaking starbase. It's got an internal explorer-rated shipyard, after all. Combat power is going to be low for it's size, but low for it's size isn't really saying very much when it's at least 2 OOM more massive than any mobile asset in the known galaxy.
On the other hand, they might have poured all that extra power and resources into an array of purely defensive capabilities, designed to intercept projectiles and project hellastrong shields while escorts chase the threats away from the mothership.

You're forgetting something: that's their whole civilization on that ship. Losing it means the end of everything, forever, for them. Taking significant damage to it means their civilization takes significant damage, and may be doomed.

Now, you can say "well, that's exactly why it should have the firepower of a cruiser squadron!"

But this is missing something important. When you mount heavy offensive weapon batteries on a ship, you are sending a message: "Shoot me if you want to be safe!" If you're on a normal ship, this doesn't matter, because all such ships are, ultimately, expendable. It's okay if the enemy decides to shoot at them. They'll hopefully give out as good as they get, and if they're destroyed, well, the loss is not that serious.

But it is NOT okay if the enemy decides to shoot at the Kadeshi mothership. Any attack that gets past the escorts is a disaster for their civilization. Giving the mothership enough firepower that it looks like some kind of battleship or invasion ship virtually guarantees that enemies will try to put it out of action first. Whereas what the Kadeshi want is for enemies to get tangled up fighting the (highly expendable) escorts.

This is about how you fight in a situation where the threats are existential, not just "let's you and him have a boxing match." Read Kahn's On Thermonuclear War for more on this, but basically, if you have something that poses no direct threat to the enemy, and is critical to your survival, it is NOT a good idea to suddenly turn it into a thing that DOES pose a direct threat to the enemy.
 
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@Nix
How are we on RP income/use? I KNOW the yearly income on the front page is out of date.
Research income at least is up to date. I think the only income type out of date is br (due to the two colonies that finished this quarter). As for current rp, we should have 189 (EOY) + 30 (Q1) + 5(Q2.M1) + 5(Q2.M2) = 229 rp, with one month to go. Activating 26 teams requires 208 rp so we are in the green.
 
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@Leila Hann , Given the Apiata's constraints (and those constraints are significant), they are doing a great job of illustrating how wolfpack/swarm tactics look.

The Apiata cannot afford a fleet with the total size and strength of ours; if they have 19 total ships then their total Combat score is probably about sixty plus or minus ten, compared to the Federation or Cardassian scores which are about 140 each. They just don't have the muscle to be really menacing wolfpack-eers on the scale of the major powers.

Okay, yes. For their size the Apiata are the baddest motherfuckers in the known galaxy. The post I responded to was comparing them against the Federation and Cardassians, though.

On the other hand, they might have poured all that extra power and resources into an array of purely defensive capabilities, designed to intercept projectiles and project hellastrong shields while escorts chase the threats away from the mothership.

You're forgetting something: that's their whole civilization on that ship. Losing it means the end of everything, forever, for them. Taking significant damage to it means their civilization takes significant damage, and may be doomed.

Now, you can say "well, that's exactly why it should have the firepower of a cruiser squadron!"

But this is missing something important. When you mount heavy offensive weapon batteries on a ship, you are sending a message: "Shoot me if you want to be safe!" If you're on a normal ship, this doesn't matter, because all such ships are, ultimately, expendable. It's okay if the enemy decides to shoot at them. They'll hopefully give out as good as they get, and if they're destroyed, well, the loss is not that serious.

But it is NOT okay if the enemy decides to shoot at the Kadeshi mothership. Any attack that gets past the escorts is a disaster for their civilization. Giving the mothership enough firepower that it looks like some kind of battleship or invasion ship virtually guarantees that enemies will try to put it out of action first. Whereas what the Kadeshi want is for enemies to get tangled up fighting the (highly expendable) escorts.

This is about how you fight in a situation where the threats are existential, not just "let's you and him have a boxing match." Read Kahn's On Thermonuclear War for more on this, but basically, if you have something that poses no direct threat to the enemy, and is critical to your survival, it is NOT a good idea to suddenly turn it into a thing that DOES pose a direct threat to the enemy.

This would be my hypothesis as well. In addition to the reasons you listed, there's just not much point in covering the Pride in weapons when they have an entire escort fleet for that.

...so on a whim I looked up interstellar creatures in Trek and I uh.

NGC 6281

Wut.

The Trek EU is a sometimes wonderful but very often stupid place.
 
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Amash Hagan Research Office [Skill 2 Computing/Personal]: [new] -> 2320s Research Centers

Is this a higher priority than [[T3] Automated Ship Systems]? Reducing crew requirements (Barret-V System Automation) at 40 sounds rather nice.

Edit: If I understand the way overflow works (internal rollover before external?), and the team starts at zero xp, the tech should be completed one year early, 2319, maybe two if they have at least one xp.
 
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Is this a higher priority than [[T3] Automated Ship Systems]? Reducing crew requirements (Barret-V System Automation) at 40 sounds rather nice.
Not strictly higher priority (IMO actually a bit lower priority), but much more efficient (as a rule the less skilled teams should take projects with fewer techs so the inspiration bonus is relatively more important). Putting Amash Hagan on Automated Ship Systems this year wouldn't even guarantee finishing that project any faster, there'd be a 21.04% chance of only finishing in 2320, just like Daystorm is currently expected to (see research notes in the same post).
 
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Does anyone want anything else extracted into a task?

Oh nice.

As for another task: I know we chose the Ambassador 2313 plan, but is the Ambassador 2317 plan still feasible now, or what would need to be changed (if anything) to optimize for that?

Admiral Lathriss [Skill 3 Fleet Design/Defensive]: Lone Ranger Way of the Giant [complete] -> Task [DOCTINE]

nit: [complete] should be highlighted green, [DOCTINE] => [DOCTRINE]

...ish? They outclass the Sydraxians, but unlike the other powers you listed they don't have any ship with a Combat rating above 4, with the possible exception of their (unique?) grand queenship. For them to be the best wolf pack hunters we know of they'd need to have an awful lot of those stingers, and their current total escort count (including stingers, foragers, and possibly others) is just 19.

Any enemy with shield burnthrough tech is also going to give them a very hard time, but that's highly situational.

Of the powers I mentioned, only the Cardassians are out of the Apiata's weight class. Apiata, Sydraxians, Amarki are all around the same power tier.

Recent ship numbers and total stats for these 3 as of around 2311.Q1:

2310 Ghosts & Whispers status report:
-Apiata Fleet @ Apinae
--1 Queenship, 1 Little Queenship, 2 Stingers, 2 Old Stingers, 1 Forager
-Apiata Fleet @ Alrizzine
--2 Little Queenship, 3 Stingers, 2 Old Stingers, 2 Foragers
-Apiata Fleet @ Burrizz
--2 Little Queenship, 3 Stingers, 2 Old Stingers, 2 Foragers

MWCO reports since then until 2311.Q1:
Apiata - 1 Stinger, 2 Bumblebee (Cargo Ships)

That totals up to 86 combat.
2310.Q4 intel report:
The Sydraxians operate two types of ship - one is an escort called a Hasque which we consider to be broadly similar to a Centaur or Centaur-A in terms of performance. The other is a Kalindrax, which is a heavy-weight cruiser, sort of like a more well-rounded, faster Jaldun-class that masses about 1.8mt.

7~10 Hasque Escorts
2~4 Kalindrax Cruisers

...

We would add a cautionary note that the Sydraxians have recently undertaken a large expansion of their shipbuilding infrastructure, which may see their fleet numbers increase rapidly.

Total combat of 29 on low end (assuming 7 C3 Hasque and 2 C4 Kalindrax) to 50 on high end (assuming 10 C3 Hasque and 4 C5 Kalindrax).
2311.Q1 MWCO report:

Total combat of 47.

Though they just got another 6 combat from a new Riala just this quarter.

...actually, holy shit, Apiata are powerful. Their fleet in total combat is more than half that of Cardassia and Starfleet.

Anyway, assuming comparatively similar fleets using some metric like total combat, the Apiata are going to absolutely excel in raiding. Amarki should be able to edge out a win in a direct fleet battle. And Sydraxians...well they seem similar to Cardassia in terms of fleet composition, but I don't see them beating the Amarki fleet. Their Kalindrax aren't that much better than the Amarki Hebrinda - optimistically (for Sydraxians), C+1,H+1,L+1, but pessimistically, only H+1 compared to the Hebrinda. And although Sydraxians seem to have faster ships (excluding the Riala), they don't beat the Apiata in that regard.

Yeah, well, you misspelled your mom.

:cry:

edit: revised Sydraxian numbers and comments.
 
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Oh nice.

As for another task: I know we chose the Ambassador 2313 plan, but is the Ambassador 2317 plan still feasible now, or what would need to be changed (if anything) to optimize for that?
Nothing this year, have Utopia Planitia start 2320s Explorer Engineering in 2313 instead of the Ambassador project. The 2317 plan wasn't actually better for starting in 2317, it just didn't do the (generally to be avoided) shuffling necessary to be ready in 2313.
 
Your count is only accurate if the apiata old swarmers have the same combat score as the new ones. I don't think that they do.

1*4 (queenship) + 5*4 (little queenship) + 5*2 (forager) + 10*4 (stinger) + 6*2 (old stinger) = 86.

Nothing this year, have Utopia Planitia start 2320s Explorer Engineering in 2313 instead of the Ambassador project. The 2317 plan wasn't actually better for starting in 2317, it just didn't do the (generally to be avoided) shuffling necessary to be ready in 2313.

Okay, I still favor getting the Ambassador in 2313, but it's good to know that if something changes next year to change this, as unlikely as that's going to be, we still have a fallback plan. Well, more realistically, any delay would only result in an 2314 Ambassador plan.
 
With the ship design rule changes, I don't want to make assumptions about the statline. Introducing a good new explorer is more important than making it super-mighty.

Okay, yes. For their size the Apiata are the baddest motherfuckers in the known galaxy. The post I responded to was comparing them against the Federation and Cardassians, though.
Well, they can be great at wolfpack tactics, without being objectively stronger or more powerful than someone else who is less good at that particular
 
Well, they can be great at wolfpack tactics, without being objectively stronger or more powerful than someone else who is less good at that particular

It's not very clear to me that they're great at wolfpack tactics anyway. Yes, they pulled off a very nice ambush. Couldn't anyone else with three ships to spare have done the same thing?

As near as I can tell from the actual mechanics of the Wolfpack doctrine, what it does is more give bonuses to slipping through the border patrols of the enemy, avoiding contact with battles you don't want to fight, and have an easier time hiding out in enemy territory for longer periods of time. I don't know whether the Apinata are good at any of those things or not. Would have to see how they held up over long periods of time.

Actually, their fleet design doesn't seem a great choice for wolf pack. When you're raiding, the speed of your raiding group is only as fast as your slowest ship. Having to move only as fast as their stingers would logically make it harder to rush through gaps in enemy patrols, avoid battles, and that sort of thing.
 
It's not very clear to me that they're great at wolfpack tactics anyway. Yes, they pulled off a very nice ambush. Couldn't anyone else with three ships to spare have done the same thing?

As near as I can tell from the actual mechanics of the Wolfpack doctrine, what it does is more give bonuses to slipping through the border patrols of the enemy, avoiding contact with battles you don't want to fight, and have an easier time hiding out in enemy territory for longer periods of time. I don't know whether the Apinata are good at any of those things or not. Would have to see how they held up over long periods of time.

Actually, their fleet design doesn't seem a great choice for wolf pack. When you're raiding, the speed of your raiding group is only as fast as your slowest ship. Having to move only as fast as their stingers would logically make it harder to rush through gaps in enemy patrols, avoid battles, and that sort of thing.
I'm almost certain that Stingers are parasite craft. Hence, they have the strategic movement speed of whatever they're docked with.
 
Actually, their fleet design doesn't seem a great choice for wolf pack. When you're raiding, the speed of your raiding group is only as fast as your slowest ship. Having to move only as fast as their stingers would logically make it harder to rush through gaps in enemy patrols, avoid battles, and that sort of thing.

Out of all the ship designs we know and in each ship classification, Apiata have the highest defense stats. D4 escorts, D7 cruisers, D7 explorer.

And those stinger escorts are designed to work with a parent queenship (as they lack queens themselves, which may limit independent action), so the part of the defense stat that's not related to speed isn't as relevant for the escorts, so those stingers are likely pretty damn fast for their defense rating.

The Apiata wolf pack of little queenship + swarmers should have no more trouble operating as a wolf pack than a dedicated cruiser wolf pack, which you seem to be advocating (since all other escorts are going to be slower).


Realized I haven't voted yet.

[jk][RIGEL] Sarek

Clearly, Straak loves politics and could use another ratification under his belt :V

[X][RIGEL] Courageous

For reasons stated by others, McAdam's Courageous is the best and safest option here.

[X][TMIR] Get a report on Cardassian political in-fighting

The main alternative of Cardassian fleet distribution isn't as appealing to me. We already have a recent fleet strength and infrastructure report via the Ghosts & Whispers epilogue, and if this is just a way to indirectly find out where their priorities are, we can get that through a diplomatic posture report. Also, if we can't even get information on unknown nations, whether client states or threats, via diplomatic posture reports, then I doubt we can get them this way either.

So getting a report on Cardassian political in-fighting is kinda like getting a diplomatic posture report, in that it would help inform us when it starts getting riskier to keep diplo pushing their client states, and if/when they're more open for direct diplomatic contact. There's the option of going to a straightforward diplomatic posture report, and it's less risky if the in-fighting is in its final stages, but this is a novel non-write-in option, and I'm curious to see what comes out of it. And although OOC we know lots of details about Cardassian political structure, and Starfleet now knows more from the Kadak-Tor defection, I think IC, the Federation would love to know more about Cardassian politics for future diplomatic outreach.

[X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)

I'd love to vote for another one of the options that T'Mir apparently has access to, like Cardassian Fleet Distribution or Infrastructure, or even Diplomatic Posture, but that doesn't look like an option for the CARD task. Only ship analysis write-ins are accepted here.

The closest option to Infrastructure is the Shipbuilding Report, but we already requested this just two years ago, and as pointed above, we already have an infrastructure report from last year's Ghost & Whispers crisis. Two years isn't a full round of construction for any of ships being constructed then except the escort. If we delay a shipbuilding report until next year, the most we'll miss out on would be 2-year escort builds.

So although I don't think we'll be having a war with Cardassia next year, Cardassia is already proving that they're open to skirmishing with the Apiata, so a combat bonus is still relevant.

[X][ROM] Romulan Daljerra Cruiser Report

For Romulans, getting a fleet strength report or just finding out about their shipyard infrastructure is nice, but it probably won't guide our actions next year. I do want to see what their new ship is like, to see if our upcoming Renaissance is a match for it. Out of all these non-urgent options, I'll choose the one the piques my curiosity the most.

As Briefvoice pointed out, we've never gotten a Romulan or Klingon fleet strength report throughout our decade-long tenure, so even if it's not urgent, we should get at least one of them, and out of the Romulans vs Klingons, I'll choose the Klingons because we get 2 1 Romulan report a year, and only 1 none for Klingons, so that we can more easily allocate a fleet strength report next year for the Romulans than the Klingons.

edit: actually just 1 free Romulan report, none for Klingons.

[X][REPORT] Klingon Fleet Strength Report

As just noted above, want at least one Klingon or Romulan fleet strength report.

[X][REPORT] Syndicate strength and how much Impact do we need?

We might be de facto allocating one anti-Syndicate intel report for our monthly reports, but allocating the equivalent of two intel reports to our current highest priority threat is just prudent. This is something we've wanted to know since we started the campaign. From the corruption levels of the Orion planets, it looks like it's going to take at least a couple years, so there's no excuse to think that a "how much impact is needed" report would be wasted on a conflict about to end. We need to know a clearer timeline, so that we can calibrate further resources, whether ships or pp, to this effort next year.

I'm also assuming that all the variations of this particular vote are basically the same thing, and just quibbling on wording: "Syndicate Resilience and necessary Impact to win the conflict", "Orion Syndicate Impact Endurance and Asset HP Estimates", "Syndicate Operations". Doesn't matter much since "Syndicate strength and how much Impact do we need?" is currently in the lead anyway.

[X][REPORT] The relationship between the Sydraxians and the Gretarians.

The final intel report choice boiled down to Gretarians (and Sydraxians) vs Yrillians (and implicitly Cardassians). Both are important, and I judge them to be both as urgent as each other. But I feel a bit bad for not voting to diplo push the Gretarians (when we did diplo push the Yrillians), and we know very little about what their situation is like (we do have a canon-ish omake on Yrillians), so I'm favoring an intel report on Gretarians this year.
 
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The final intel report choice boiled down to Gretarians (and Sydraxians) vs Yrillians (and implicitly Cardassians). Both are important, and I judge them to be both as urgent as each other. But I feel a bit bad for not voting to diplo push the Gretarians (when we did diplo push the Yrillians), and we know very little about what their situation is like (we do have a canon-ish omake on Yrillians), so I'm favoring an intel report on Gretarians this year.

The canonicity of my omake with regards to their political situation has never really been confirmed. @OneirosTheWriter said "a surprising amount" of it could be canonical.
 
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[X][TMIR] Get a report on Cardassian political in-fighting

[X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)

[X][ROM] Romulan Daljerra Cruiser Report

[X][REPORT] Klingon Fleet Strength Report

[X][REPORT] Syndicate strength and how much Impact do we need?

[X][REPORT] What would you like to see reported on?
 
[X][RIGEL]Courageous
[X][TMIR]Get a report on Cardassian political in-fighting
[X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months
[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Orion Syndicate Impact Endurance and Asset HP Estimates.
[X][REPORT] The relationship between the Sydraxians and the Gretarians.
[X][REPORT] Klingon Fleet Strength Report

I quite like @Vehrec's wording for the Syndicate report.
 
Oh, that is quite nifty. I like.

[X][RIGEL]Courageous
[X][TMIR]Get a report on Cardassian political in-fighting
[X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months
[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Orion Syndicate Impact Endurance and Asset HP Estimates.
[X][REPORT] The relationship between the Sydraxians and the Gretarians.
[X][REPORT] Klingon Fleet Strength Report

[jk][REPORT] What the Praetor and the Chancellor had for breakfast this morning
 
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