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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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Langa Mbeki on the Miracht, ehh?



Michel Thuir's Words of Wisdom to Incoming Captains

1. Faces are not sensors. Half of this job is matching the right tool to the right job.

2. Everyone wants to go home at the end of the day. Use the fact only you can turn the ship around to motivate people if you have to!

3. Life comes in many shapes and sizes, and even molecular basis - assume that all of it wants to eat you until proven otherwise.

4. No matter what you think Kirk would have done, don't beam people into obvious traps.

5. If it looks too good to be true, it is.

6. If it looks too bad to be true, it really is that bad. Don't beam down.

7. Your Redshirts will be much more willing to act as your ablative armour if you don't act like they're ablative armour.

8. Don't think of them as crew, think of them as TIUs (Tools in Uniform). They all have a use. Even Ensign Bean (see #7).

9. Don't let any of the uniformed Tools know that you are thinking that.

10. Never Trust Singing Aliens
 
73 votes, my goodness. There were some OPINIONS about this vote, at least. Player involvement is nice to see, no matter what you think of the outcome.
 
MS-21H 'Hawke' said:
Really? that doesn't change the point much though, I had to be reminded that she WAS on the Enterprise, so she's not a staple of the ship like Nash and Leaniss are, and Maryam Ajam WAS...now if I had gotten some characterization from Mrr'Shan and she proved awesome? I'd be amiable to this...Am I missing a few Omakes or so of this woman? I'd gladly read them and consider chan-
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Mrr'shan shows up a lot. She was widely known, and people were actually kind of proud when she was promoted to command of the USS Lightning. That's arguably WHY so many people voted for her, because they liked the idea of one of Nash's command team succeeding to her position,* and Leaniss wasn't an option.

Just... my advice is, and this is a general thing...

Stay calm, man. There appear to have been important facts about the situation that had not made an emotional impression upon you. And if they had, you'd have been a lot less broken up about the whole thing. Which is, in general, a good example of why it pays off to stay calm and moderate in one's opinions. People miss important facts all the time- but if you don't stake out extreme positions, you usually don't find yourself overreacting when it turns out you missed something.
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*Though AKuz herself seems not to like that.
 
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[X][FYM] Select Captains
-[X] USS Enterprise: Captain Nash ka'Sharren
-[X] USS Sarek: Captain Samhaya Mrr'shan
-[X] USS Miracht: Captain Langa Mbeki

Edit: Damnitall, Almost exactly one hour late, I guess that's what happens when one doesn't read the immediate preceding page first.
​
 
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Briefvoice said:
Homogenization: I am pro-homogenization. Trying to maintain a lot of separate ship designs for the same functions is wasteful. I might make some exceptions for strategies that require significantly different design assumptions (Apiata?, Rigellians?) but the Amarki generally use their ships the same way Starfleet does.
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Briefvoice said:
But what are the concrete benefits of diversity in this case? Can you describe a situation where it actually helps? I think my problem is that member world designs aren't diverse enough to matter. They're all some variation of Combat, Science, Hull, Shields, Presence, and Defense in different ratios. Their BR/SR build requirements and presumably crew requirements aren't going to be that different either. They all require 2 years build for escorts, 3 years for cruisers, and 4 for explorers.
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Yeah, no, this is what I was talking about when I was worried we were going to try to be super-optimal and frankly, gamey, about this whole matter. It's like the doctrine debate again. We're losing part of the flavor and narrative power of each nation if we just force Starfleet saucer-obsessed design ethos onto them. Each nation has their own wants and needs, including ship design and aesthetics, and we should respect that, even if it may be a bit less optimal.

In terms of mechanics, doctrine is probably going to be the key differentiator. It looks like out of all the member/affiliate nations, even possibly the original four, none apparently use the Lone Ranger doctrine, and defense/offensive doctrines are unclear. Generally, most seem to advocate either Combined Fleet or Swarm doctrines. On top of that, nations have their own idiosyncrasies, like Amarki preferring more combat than science.

Some don't have any doctrine in particular, especially the smaller nations like Risa or Betazed, where a doctrine doesn't matter for like less than 10 ships. For these, I'm okay with Starfleet-designed ships, although they may still have their own modified version of it. For ex, Betazoids may adopt the Renaissance, but design a custom refit of it so that it has 1 less C and 1 more P.

Briefvoice said:
Selling Ships: Not this decade. I don't know why everyone keeps getting so excited about this. Starfleet needs all the ships it has and probably will for at least the next ten to fifteen years. And when we don't... shouldn't the member world fleets be building better designs?
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Selling ships, from Starfleet to other member fleets at least, is a better option than mothballing, if we ever need crew urgently, and also helps bolster a member fleet, which is also an important consideration.

MS-21H 'Hawke' said:
If the vote goes the way I think it might, I may just leave the game.
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Hey, we still need our Hawks advocates in this Peacenik-infested Starfleet High Council Command that we collectively represent ;)
 
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lbmaian said:
Yeah, no, this is what I was talking about when I was worried we were going to try to be super-optimal and frankly, gamey, about this whole matter. It's like the doctrine debate again. We're losing part of the flavor and narrative power of each nation if we just force Starfleet saucer-obsessed design ethos onto them. Each nation has their own wants and needs, including ship design and aesthetics, and we should respect that, even if it may be a bit less optimal.

In terms of mechanics, doctrine is probably going to be the key differentiator. It looks like out of all the member/affiliate nations, even possibly the original four, none apparently use the Lone Ranger doctrine, and defense/offensive doctrines are unclear. Generally, most seem to advocate either Combined Fleet or Swarm doctrines. On top of that, nations have their own idiosyncrasies, like Amarki preferring more combat than science.

Some don't have any doctrine in particular, especially the smaller nations like Risa or Betazed, where a doctrine doesn't matter for like less than 10 ships. For these, I'm okay with Starfleet-designed ships, although they may still have their own modified version of it. For ex, Betazoids may adopt the Renaissance, but design a custom refit of it so that it has 1 less C and 1 more P.
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Another thing to remember is that some of the member race fleets* are important parts of our overall defense planning in wartime. Letting them design their own ships that fit their doctrine (and their own specific tech trees, if they have them) may result in us having a more effective strategic reserve force in the event of a war with Cardassia or another major power.
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*Especially ones like the Amarki, Caitians, and Apiata, who have advanced technological infrastructure and were fairly strong before joining us. Remember what I was talking about during the Grey October crisis, with the Amarki fleet being centrally located to act as a reserve force to respond to attacks anywhere on our perimeter with Cardassia and Sydraxia? That's still true and still important. Likewise, the Apiata have a lot of muscle- they probably give the Cardassians as much worries all by themselves as the Sydraxians give us. Once we bring them in, it wouldn't be smart for us to pressure them into dropping their ship designs and ceasing to build the ships they build best.
 
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2311.Q1 - MWCO Report
  • Threadmarks
    • 2311.Q1

    QM/N: This is the first proper MWCO Turn, the mechanics of which are still a work in progress and may be subject to change. To put things in simple terms, Starfleet is backed up by a number of smaller fleets that belong directly to member worlds. These are the fleets that pad out your numbers during a crisis and hold down the home sectors when you have to deploy across the Quadrant. These turns are how you get to influence what the member worlds build to make sure it works hand-in-hand with Starfleet. Eventually, you will also be able to use this as a sort of market to support shipbuilding on both sides, and to send ships to as an alternative to mothballing. It will also keep you up to date on ship numbers when you are considering Refits (as you may notice, there are a lot of Mirandas running around, and considerably more than just your seven Constellations).

    ================

    Member World Coordination Office Report

    Admiral,

    Probably the most noteworthy news is that the Confederacy of Amarkia is inviting delegates from across the Federation to attend the upcoming launch of their third Riala-class explorer. Not dissimilar from our own Excelsiors, except with more of an influence on hardiness and less on science, this ship represents a considerable chunk of firepower. Aside from this and the two Excelsiors under production in Starfleet shipyards, the only explorer-grade construction going on among member worlds is a Vigilant-class explorer being produced in Alukk that is half-complete. However, we do have word that the Apiata may be commencing a new full-size Queenship at the Grand Hive of the Apiata.

    Of fleet assets, most of the production among the original four members amounts to a set of Constitution-B-class builds that are half complete, plus a Centaur-A at Xurch Melloch in Tellar. Beyond that, Amarkia and Betazed are halfway through Centaur-A builds, which will mark the first time Starfleet designs have been built outside of the original four. The Caitians are still completing their war-time builds, with three more Modern Swarmers a year from completion. Rigel has two starfaring builds to complete, one Turtleship and one Cutter.

    With the lengthening of logistics chains and trade in goods between powers, there is still a continuing pace of transport construction in member world shipyards. Currently there are ten Cargo Ships, four Freighters, and one Super-Freighter under construction. A number of Auxiliary ships are also in production.

    An ongoing sore point is that the constant expansion of Starfleet aligned resources has seen us have to draw down on member world ships for over half of our shipping requirements, making up a shortfall of 16 Cargo Ships and three Freighters.

    End Report

    Current Priorities
    Name Short-Term Mid-Term Long-Term
    Andorians Raise Excelsior Resources Prep for Miranda-A Refits  
    Vulcans Prep for Miranda-A Build-up D Inc Civ Shipping
    Humans Cargo Ships Prep for Miranda-A Prep for Renaissance
    Tellarites Miranda-A Refits Prep for Renaissance Increase Civilian Shipping
    Amarki Mod Cruiser or Centaur-A? Design new Amarki Escort Have Core/Rimward Fleet Nuclei
    Betazed Miranda-A or Centaur-As? Expand Shipyards Improve Budget
    Caitian Recover Shipping Losses Expand Shipyards Excelsior or Fathership?
    Rigel Recruitment Drive Improve Tech Recruitment 2nd Megatortoise
    .
    Resources
    Name - BR - SR - Off - Enl - Tech
    Andor - 185 - 185 - 6 - 5.5 - 5.5
    Vulcan - 135 - 130 - 0.5 - 0 - 0
    Tellar - 205 - 115 - 1.35 - 0 - 0
    Earth - 165 - 195 - 2.6 - 1.8 - 1.8
    Amarki - 180 - 220 - 3.5 - 2 - 4
    Betazoids - 125 - 135 - 1.6 - 2.4 - 1.6
    Caitain - 276 - 260 - 8.6 - 8.6 - 6.4 [Only now coming down from wartime budgets]
    Rigel - 295 - 145 - 2.25 - 6 - 1.75

    Incomes
    Andor - 50 - 40 - 1.2 - 2 - 2
    Vulcan - 35 - 30 - 1 - 1.75 - 1.5
    Tellarites - 90 - 45 - 1.25 - 1.75 - 1.75
    Humans - 100 - 50 - 1.8 - 2 - 2
    Amarki - 90 - 65 - 2 - 2.5 - 1.5
    Betazoids - 30 - 30 - 1.15 - 1.45 - 1.15
    Caitian - 80 - 80 - 2.2 - 2.2 - 0.8
    Rigel - 80 - 40 - 1.5 - 4 - 3.5

    Free Berths
    Andor - 1x2.5mt, 3x1mt
    Vulcan - 1x1mt, 1x500kt
    Tellar - 1x1mt, 1x500kt
    Human - 2x1mt
    Amarki - 1x2.5mt, 2x1mt, 1x700kt
    Betazoids - 1x400kt
    Caitian - 1x2.5mt
    Rigel - 1x750kt

    Current Fleets

    [ ][PRIORITY] Pick One Member World Priority to change

    Suggested possible priorities can be things such as:
    Focus on building a particular ship type/class
    Focus on more cargo shipping
    Focus on increasing resources/recruitment
    Focus on developing more of a particular stat
    Start designing a new ship

    Some member worlds are also looking for guidance on which way to turn on key decisions. With your role overseeing Starfleet, you are well-placed to offer this guidance.

    The Betazoids are trying to decide as to whether it would be better to build cheap Miranda-As when they become available, and use a single Renaissance to handle other tasks in their space, or to build multi-purpose Centaur-As?
    [ ][BETA] Miranda-A Focus
    [ ][BETA] Centaur-A Focus

    The Amarki are trying to decide where to go next for their shipbuilding. With a fairly balanced fleet, they have free reign to push out in different directions from here.
    [ ][AMARKI] Focus on building Centaur-As
    Build escorts, push back the new escort design process, wait for the Renaissance to complete before building cruisers.
    [ ][AMARKI] Focus on building Amarkian Modern Cruisers
    Build modern cruisers, push up the new escort design process, switch to Renaissance when it becomes available.

    The Caitian Grand Fleet has four Fatherships that operate as hubs for their Swarmers. Currently they are deciding if their next explorer-grade build at S'Naranya Shipyard at Ferasa should be another Fathership, or an Excelsior for front-line backing up of their many Swarmers.
    [ ][CATS] Fathership
    [ ][CATS] Excelsior
     
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    • [X][PRIORITY] No change
    [x][BETA] Centaur-A Focus
    [x][AMARKI] Focus on building Amarkian Modern Cruisers
    [x][CATS] Fathership

    Infinite diversity in infinite combinations.
     
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    DaLintyGuy said:
    If the time ever comes that it's expedient, is it possible to use spare berths of member nations to make Starfleet ships?
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    I think we get them automatically for repairs, but otherwise we'd probably have to pay pp for them. Ships take a while to build after all, so just because a berth currently isn't in use doesn't mean we aren't interrupting their build plans.
     
    [X][BETA] Centaur-A Focus
    [X][AMARKI] Focus on building Centaur-As
    [X][CATS] Excelsior

    Centaurs are a better all around ship than the Miranda so push the Betazoids there. Amarki the Renissance is a better ship than their cruiser so instead build up some escorts and then mass push Renissance once we finish the prototype. And finally it sounds like Fathership stay back in a more supporting role so building an Excelsior for going in with the Swarmers sounds more useful
     
    DaLintyGuy said:
    If the time ever comes that it's expedient, is it possible to use spare berths of member nations to make Starfleet ships?
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    I don't think we're allowed to comandeer them for Starfleet construction, just repairs.
    Steven Kodaly said:
    So, our resource requests have been mucking with member world budgets. Something we will want to keep in mind.
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    I read that as expansion of resource colonies causing the increase in shipping needs.

    [X][PRIORITY] Amarkia Mid Term to Focus on more cargo shipping
    [X][BETA] Miranda-A Focus
    [X][AMARKI] Focus on building Centaur-As
    [X][CATS] Excelsior

    Can't decide on a good priority right now. More civilian shipping seems obvious, but where to put it?
    Amarki focus on Centaur-A puts off the next gen Escort design & focuses them on the Rennie when it's ready. Maybe we can collaborate with them on the next-gen Escort in the future?
    The Catians could use a big ship on the front line to back up their Swarmers since the Rennie just isn't there yet.
    Centaur-As are too expensive for the Betazoids to make, and their current ship designs have enough Presence to make up for the Mirandas.
     
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    [x][BETA] Miranda-A Focus
    [x][AMARKI] Focus on building Amarkian Modern Cruisers
    [X][CATS] Excelsior
     
    [X][PRIORITY] Amarkia Mid Term to Focus on more cargo shipping

    Looks like we need more cargo ships badly.

    [X][BETA] Centaur-A Focus
    [X][AMARKI] Focus on building Centaur-As
    [X][CATS] Excelsior

    Centaurs for the Betazoids since they're better Escorts, Centaurs for the Amarki too since the Renaissance will almost surely be better than their cruisers, and an Excelsior for the Caitians to balance their support-focused Fatherships.
     
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    [x][BETA] Centaur-A Focus
    [x][AMARKI] Focus on building Amarkian Modern Cruisers
    [x][CATS] Fathership

    We're a multispecies polity, I'd much prefer that we look like one.
     
    The Betazoids don't really need a battlefleet that badly, with United Earth and Rigel close by and with us having to keep up two fairly strong sector fleets right around them. The multirole [i}Centaur-As[/i] are more suited to the Betazoids' peaceful approach to things. Also, the Betazoids have roughly equal amounts of bulk and special resources, which means that Centaur-As (an SR-rich design) is not as disadvantageous to them.

    Looking at what I think the Amarki are using for their "modern cruiser" (the Hebrinda-class), it looks like the Renaissance-class will outperform the Hebrindas in every area, including firepower, and be physically cheaper to boot, although somewhat more demanding of crew. Then again, the Amarki crew income stream is almost perfectly balanced to crew the 3/5/3 Rennies. So honestly yes, I want to encourage them to build Centaur-As and Rennies. Not because I want to force standardization and optimization on the Amarki, so much as because pretty much all the Amarki designs below explorer tonnage are weaksauce compared to what Starfleet technology would let them build.

    I do think it would be desirable for the Caitians to have at least one explorer-grade flagship that can operate on the frontline. I'd encourage them to build an Excelsior; it will also help cement their standing as a Federation member. I would encourage them to keep building Fatherships in the future, though.

    [X][BETA] Centaur-A Focus
    [X][AMARKI] Focus on building Centaur-As
    [X][CATS] Excelsior

    And yeah, I'm less than thrilled that this doesn't lead to diversity. But I want each planet to make the best decisions for itself. If the Amarki had a better cruiser design of their own, or if the Caitian explorer fleet wasn't so heavily focused on support that it impairs the frontline, I'd be advocating different decisions.
     
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    For reference:

    Miranda-A 2311-Now [277m, 655k t]
    C3 S2 H2 L3 P1 D2
    Cost[60br, 45sr, 2 years], Crew [O-1, E-2, T-1]​
    Centaur-A 2308-Now [315m 800k t]
    C3 S3 H2 L3 P3 D3
    Cost[80br, 70sr, 2 years], Crew [O-1, E-2, T-2]​

    Renaissance 2320-2360 [330m 1m t]
    C5 S3 H4 L5 P4 D5
    Cost[100br, 80sr, 3 years], Crew [O-3, E-5, T-3]​
    Amarki Hebrinda 2301-Now [???m, 967k t]
    C4 S2 H3 L4 P3 D3
    Cost [100br, 100sr, 3 Years], Crew [O-3, E-3, T-2]​

    Excelsior 2287-Now [511m, 2.3m t]
    C6 S5 H4 L5 P5 D6
    Cost [230br 150sr, 4 years], Crew [O-6, E-5, T-5]​
    Caitian Fathership ???-Now [???m, 2.5m t]
    C5 S6 H3 L7 P4 D5
    Cost [250br, 200sr, 4 Years], Crew [O-5, E-5, T-6]​

    edit: edited in Fathership crew costs using current crew cost formula (since Excelsior follows it)
     
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