I kinda of agree. I get intellectually we have made the union bleed, but its hard to keep that in mind when all we know is that they have taken vague but serous losses, but we still get some massive hit out of the blue ever few turns.
What massive hits?

Losing the ability to pursue any diplomacy with the Syndraxians ourselves sucks, sure, but we didn't suffer any huge losses. The crew the Miracht lost were recovered awhile ago, the damage was repaired, and Captain Thiur doesn't seem to think he's not cut out for being a Captain anymore due to his successes since then. And hopefully the Council will be able to reopen diplomatic contact with them eventually.

And losing the Polaris is unfortunate, but the situation with the Dawiar is far from over, and still well within our ability to turn around.
 
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well so far they have gotten 2 minor powers into there sphere of influence, and we only kept the enterprise due to a massive fluke. Given we don't get to see what they are doing it's hard to tell how hard those 2 powers where to get. the whole exploding diplomat thing was also concerning, if they were feeling a bit more blood thirsty that bomb could have beamed down to the surface of a city.
 
Transporters are somewhat concerning with the possibility of beaming bombs onto warp cores.

Why doesn't that happen?
 
well so far they have gotten 2 minor powers into there sphere of influence, and we only kept the enterprise due to a massive fluke. Given we don't get to see what they are doing it's hard to tell how hard those 2 powers where to get. the whole exploding diplomat thing was also concerning, if they were feeling a bit more blood thirsty that bomb could have beamed down to the surface of a city.
Only one minor power probably, the Dawiar thing is still ongoing, like I've said several times.

We still kept the Enterprise, though, and it kicked the shit out of the Cardaissian ambush.

And that attack on the diplomats still failed. Speculating on what else they could've done is pointless since they didn't do it, and failed at what they did.

How is any of that these massive hits you're talking about?
 
Transporters are somewhat concerning with the possibility of beaming bombs onto warp cores.

Why doesn't that happen?
Usually because shields. In VOY, f'r instance, there was an ep where the ship found a Borg probe and managed to get its shields down for an instant- an instant they used to beam in a photon and then sit back and watch the fireworks.
 
ok I think I've lost track of your point here. I thought you were just saying you found the representation of the federation as a utopia annoying/unrealistic.

I think you misunderstood me.

I'm saying I found it's representation as a utopia annoying because it cheapens the stories about people fighting to keep the Federation good/make it better.

but just because a paragon lives up to his ideals 90% of the time doesn't mean he's no better than someone who doesn't even bother with ideals.

Exactly.

That's the sort of story that gets glossed over when the Federation is portrayed as a utopia.

fasquardon
 
If she does, for all we know her father died on say, Polaris
Hereditary Plot Armor?
Okay, so upcoming schedule. Pre-Snakepit Event courtesy of The War ("I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it"), Regular Snakepit Turn, Captain's Log, Snakepit Result.

Snakepit turn will actually have an Intel Steering Committee choice this time since I can ask you something more interesting than "Would you like to focus on Cardas-""YES."

According to the great prophet Oneiros, we shall have a large decision to make involving intrigue.
 
Exactly.

That's the sort of story that gets glossed over when the Federation is portrayed as a utopia.

fasquardon

ah, you are correct I misinterpreted you. I thought you were saying that the federation was no better than most empires, rather than it was imperfect. my apologies.




Only one minor power probably, the Dawiar thing is still ongoing, like I've said several times.

We still kept the Enterprise, though, and it kicked the shit out of the Cardaissian ambush.

And that attack on the diplomats still failed. Speculating on what else they could've done is pointless since they didn't do it, and failed at what they did.

How is any of that these massive hits you're talking about?

well i'm kind of counting the enterprise as half a hit, since by all rights we should have lost her. as for the dawiar, they are in the enamesy camp right now. We have a shot of talking them out of it, but as it is I consider them hostile.

though part of it could be I get really cynical when i'm tired and I meant to go to bed a while ago, so I admit I could be making a mountain out of a molehill.
 
As a quick point, Doctor Asurva boarded Enterprise as a Lieutenant Commander and is a full Commander now. And... it is very well written, but... sorta runs counter to what I've got written about both incidents.

Changed her rank to Commander.

My omake doesn't actually contradict yours other than that, aside from the "my headcanon about the time loop" aside whose phrasing suggested you weren't especially attached to it. If it really bothers you I can get rid of it, but if you don't mind I'd rather not considering the shortage (for Trek) of arbitrarily powerful extradimensional energy beings in this quest so far.
 
So given the small defense requirement increase from Betazoid, do we want to push for another member since the Caitians may take a while? D3 means we put a Constellation over there and we have hit the requirements and it has all the ships stationed in Sol ready to respond as well since they are the same sector.

If we do push how much difficulty do you guys think we would have integrating the Orions? They look like they are part of the Amarkia sector and are in the middle of the Federation. Otherwise I would say try to push the Rigellians into becoming members if we don't want to hold off until we see what is happening with the Caitians. One thing about pushing one of the affiliates in the 200 relations range is that it would not be until next year at the earliest where they could become members which is when we start getting our new ships.

Potential pushes to member:
Rigellians (I like the description and flavor, plus the highest of the non members at 317, plus engineer race is always good)
Orions (in the middle of the federation, look to be part of an existing sector, Amarkia which already meets defense requirement from installations which means sector fleet size will not have to increase by much if any, 245 relations)
Indorians (Engineer race on the front with Cardassia so provides some stability there, 265 relations)
Caldonians (race of scientists that view competency in science as a qualification for government, between us and the Klingons, 232 relations)
Gaeni (Science! We have worked with some of their groups in the past and they seem to have a style that appeals to me, 203 relations)
 
How stardates work in this quest:

20554 - 20571.4 : 2301.Q1
20605.3 - 20625.5 : 2301.Q2
20713.2 - 20735.4 : 2301.Q3
20712.4 - 20741.1 : 2301.Q4
20757.9 - 20766.4 : 2302.Q1
20852.8 - 20859.6 : 2302.Q2
20983.1 - 20994.5 : 2302.Q3
21055.7 - 21070.3 : 2302.Q4
21122.6 - 21149.3 : 2303.Q1
21204.3 - 21210.4 : 2303.Q2
21295.5 - 21312.6 : 2303.Q3
21345.5 : 2303.Q4.M1
21372.7 - 21375.2 : 2303.Q4.M2
21407.5 : 2303.Q4.M3
21432.5 - 21436.5 : 2304.Q1.M1
21467.5 - 21471.6 : 2304.Q1.M2
21498.6 : 2304.Q1.M3
21582.6 - 21594.9 : 2304.Q2
21584.3 - 21588.4 : 2304.Q3
21677.3 - 21685.2 : 2304.Q4
21764.5 - 21772.7 : 2305.Q1
21856.4 - 21862.6 : 2305.Q2
21951.3 - 21955.6 : 2305.Q3
22040.4 - 22047.3 : 2305.Q4
22144.3 - 22153.3 : 2306.Q1
22241.7 - 22248.5 : 2306.Q2
22335.6 - 22353.7 : 2306.Q3
22435.4 - 22442.2 : 2306.Q4
22522.6 - 22525.6 : 2307.Q1
22612.3 - 22615.2 : 2307.Q2
22704.5 - 22709.6 : 2307.Q3
22790.4 - 22797.5 : 2307.Q4
22804.3 - 22809.7 : 2308.Q1

Looks like the system was changed to 1 stardate point per day after a major temporal anomaly in the second half of 2301, then another major temporal anomaly hit in mid 2304.
 
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Potential pushes to member:
Rigellians (I like the description and flavor, plus the highest of the non members at 317, plus engineer race is always good)
Orions (in the middle of the federation, look to be part of an existing sector, Amarkia which already meets defense requirement from installations which means sector fleet size will not have to increase by much if any, 245 relations)
Indorians (Engineer race on the front with Cardassia so provides some stability there, 265 relations)
Caldonians (race of scientists that view competency in science as a qualification for government, between us and the Klingons, 232 relations)
Gaeni (Science! We have worked with some of their groups in the past and they seem to have a style that appeals to me, 203 relations)

I don't know about longer term because we've seen how much change in a year, but I think this year and the year after:

1. Push the Indorians to +300 status, then leave them there and start pushing the Rigellians to full membership.
2. Push the Caldonians to full membership. They seem a decent fit.
3. Push the Seyek and Yrillians to try and get them to Affiliate status.

See where we are after that and how far various groups come from Events.
 
I don't know about longer term because we've seen how much change in a year, but I think this year and the year after:

1. Push the Indorians to +300 status, then leave them there and start pushing the Rigellians to full membership.
2. Push the Caldonians to full membership. They seem a decent fit.
3. Push the Seyek and Yrillians to try and get them to Affiliate status.

See where we are after that and how far various groups come from Events.
Indorians are almost to 300 and they have the annual roll coming up a push would be for if we want them as a member soon
 
Preliminary Fleet Distribution Plan:

Sol, D15: 1 Excelsior [Endurance] (6), 2 Miranda [Lion, Bon Vivant] (4), Starbase 1 (5) = D15
Betazed, D3: 1 Constellation [Selaya] (3) [Stalwart] = 3D
Vulcan, D12: 1 Constellation [Sappho] (3), 2 Miranda (4) [T'Kumbra, Calypso], Starbase I (5) = 12D
Andor, D9: 1 Constellation (3) [Docana], 1 Miranda (2) [Eketha], 1 Oberth [Suvek] (1), Starbase I (5) = 11D
Tellar Prime, D9: 1 Constellation (3) [Stalwart], Starbase I (5), Extra Outposts (5) = 13D
Amarkia, D9: 1 Constellation (3) [Vigour], 1 Miranda [Dryad] (2), Oberth [Hawking] (1), Starbase I (5), Extra Outposts (5) = 16D
RBZ, D12: 1 Excelsior (6) [Excelsior], 3 Miranda (6) [Faithful, Svai] = 12D
KBZ, D6: 1 Constellation (3) [Kearsage], 2 Miranda (4), 1 Oberth (1) = 8D
CBZ, D10: 1 Constitution (5) [Cheron], 1 Excelsior (6) [Kumari), 1 Constellation (3) [Challorn], 1 Centaur (2) = 16D

1 Centaur (2) [Yukikaze] = out for refit starting 2308Q2

My logic: Every key system/border zone gets an Excelsior or a Constellation. Make a special effort to give all the border zones either an Excelsior or an Oberth for good science. Amarkia and Andor get a little extra ships because they are key sectors that support many surrounding affiliates and sectors and might send ships to them to help in Events. I still don't want to let the Cardassians see our Mirandas. Let them wonder.
 
2308.Q2 - The Snakepit - Precursor
Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards Command Station, Mars Orbit, Stardate 22893.7

"...and without further gilding the lily, I pronounce this station to be officially commissioned into the service of Starfleet!"

Applause lights up around you from the visiting dignitaries, future crew members, and the many workers who have toiled on this project over its four year build time. You see Patricia Chen standing among a throng of well-wishers, trying to get free to make her own way up onto the stage to formally be ushered into command by Vice Admiral Sousa. Tears flow from the Mars natives who have strove for this moment for decades, however, and you can't help but feel a little spark as you think of how you helped make their dream a reality. The strains and tribulations of your cat and mouse struggle with the Cardassians, the Sydraxians, and now this fiasco with the Dawiar are utterly absent from these celebratory scenes.

The sprawling Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards is not really one edifice but a collection of stations, drydocks, assembly yards, surface facilities and utility ships that all work together. A number of freighters are present as well, delivering both raw resources, but also deliver completed specialist components, like warp cores and coils, transporter assemblies, main deflector dishes, and the like. At the center of it all, the mama bear watching over her drydock cubs, is the command station, where you now stand. An outpost with all the appropriate defences in its own right, its true purpose is to provide a home to the yard's administration and a vantage point from which to control the work around them.

"Fine speech, Admiral, fine speech," greets a new voice at your side.

You know who it is before you turn. "Thank you, Madam President," you say to the Andorian woman who has approached. Newly elected Jorlyth sh'Arrath is the Councillor from the Andorian colony of Landle IV, a short shen with a bright and cheerful smile and friendly demeanour that you know full well is simply silk over steel. Jorlyth is a woman with an iron-clad belief in the great ongoing project of the Federation. You've dealt with her before, for better or worse. When the Lor'Vela Orbital Construction Facility was being planned out, she had made a play in Council to have it build at Landle IV instead, though to no avail. Despite that setback, she still had quite a power-base, and it has earned her an election from among the Councillors. Not part of Councillor Stesk's pacifist faction, nor part of the more Hawkish faction that has re-coalesced around Councillor Korielis of the Amarki colony of Tales Har, she is the leading light of an expansionary faction. Her chief backers are Langford of Earth and Singh of Alpha Centauri.

Your entourages run into each other like galaxies merging in deep space, sliding together in a confused intermingle.

"Simply the truth, Admiral, but I do think its time to leave people to their celebrations, we two have work to get down to," orders the Federation President in as nice a tone as you can expect to get.

===========================

A highly secure conference room typically used for presenting highly-classified prototype components to administrators and designers has been handed over for the meeting. A bevy of Admirals are in the chamber, including a number who report directly to you. On the Council side are a handful of Councillors, the chairperson of the Diplomatic committee, the civil servant in charge of the Federation Diplomatic Service, a few senior ambassadors, a handful of policy makers and, of course, the Federation Council President.

Quite the crew, you muse to yourself. Wouldn't Cardassia like to sneak a bomb here?

"Alright, Rear Admiral Eriksson, give us your brief," you say once Ablett takes his seat, making apologies for a holdup at the transporter room.

It's very unusual for anyone of flag rank to make their own presentation, but then, you aren't normally entertaining the head of the Council. Heidi Eriksson steps up to the front of the room, where a representation of the Caitian Sector and surrounding space appears.


"Okay, so far the war has not moved beyond some initial skirmishing between bordering outpost systems," begins Eriksson. "To the surprise of most of us, the Dawiar appear strategically flatfooted. They may not have expected the ball to go up."

"Something cultural that we've missed?" asks the head of the Diplomatic Service.

"Possibly, but if so we're all in the dark about it," admits Eriksson. "So no sweeping offensives to go attend the start of hostilities. Now, we had thought that the Caitians had the Dawiar covered, and they probably still do in terms of overall ship quality. But the Dawiar are using pure warships with modern Cardassian torpedo technology and that ... makes things interesting."

The President leans forward, fixing the Vice Admiral with a look. "Define interesting."

"All presumptions just jumped out the airlock," replies Eriksson. "Both sides are settling in and beginning to build. A starship is a huge investment and both sides know if they guess wrong, and commit to the wrong fight, they could doom themselves. From what we've been able to tell, everything completely hit the fan midway through negotiations. Polaris had delivered the Ambassador and their staff to the Dawiar vessel, when partway through they issued a challenge via hail and attacked. After Shrr'harr arrived and forced back the Dawiar ships, taking damage in the process, the Caitian government recognised a state of war."

"Okay, so what is Starfleet doing?"

[ ][FLEET] Redeploy the fleet

"Right, our sector commands are shifting their deployment zones, as are some of the member worlds," continues Eriksson. "Half the Tellarite home fleet, for instance, has deployed to Ord Grind Duk, just in case the Dawiar try to get around the Caitians and cause havoc. For the same reason, Starfleet's Andor Sector fleet now has a presence at the Pygmalion mining colony, and the Klingon Border Zone has shifted from the Thiak system to Biroth. Orion is on high alert now, and Risa is ... well, I'm told that by their standards they are very alarmed, but I don't think many people would notice. Amarkia is shifting assets from Leas Akaam to Orion space."

Eriksson continues to explain ship movements for a few minutes, and then it becomes the turn of Rear Admiral Ablett, head of Tactical, to take the stage. He clears his throat and an image of one ship, smaller than a Soyuz, and another ship that masses about four times the size, appears. "The larger ship is a 'Khalkhalad' cruiser. It's not too dissimilar to a Constellation if you stripped out the labs, diplomatic facilities, and stuffed all million tons of it with modern Cardassian torpedo launchers. The smaller is the 'Shakakoun', which is a name larger than this ship. Three hundred kilotons of mostly armour, torpedo, and engine. It has all the technological elegance of a ham sandwich, but it is effective as a fighting ship."

"Okay, John," says the President as she folds her arms and turns to one of her aids. "Your turn. What our political situation?"

"Obviously, with our affiliates, the Caitian, at war, we find ourselves in an invidious position," begins a Tellarite, to your surprise given the name. "The Caitians are asking for our entry into the war, but they are not expecting it. Allowing them to use the repair berth has helped mollify them, but if they take heavy casualties in this war, the pressure may mount."

"War is never an option for the Federation as long as other alternatives exist," Jorlyth says sternly.

"Of course," you say aloud.

"What do our other affiliates expect?" you ask.

"The Apiata are shocked we are not intervening, while others like the Rigellians have already become accustomed enough to us to have expected it. Within the Federation, well, we actually have a few more issues. The Betazoids are natural fits for settling in between Stesk's faction and our own, but they are so new they're just finding their feet. None of them are wielding much influence yet. Whereas the Amarki have been here long enough to start campaigning openly to enter the war."


The President allows herself a sigh. "Well, we're not going to do that. Whatever else we are, a star empire stomping on minor factions isn't it. We need to bring this to a peaceful conclusion. Do we have any ideas?"

"The Federation position is unfortunately compromised, I don't think we can approach them directly, so we have two options that I can see. Either we get a third party to provide us with an avenue in, and I'd recommend the Seyek if we can manage it, or else we wait for the Caitian to batter them down, perhaps helping them discreetly."

"The problem," you add, "Of course, is that we have to assume the war will go well for the Caitians, no guarantee if the Cardassians begin to intervene."

"Worse," mutters the President, "If the Cardassians intervene then this whole war may go hot. Tell me, Admiral, what is Starfleet's position here?"

"In terms of what, Madam President?"

"What does Starfleet suggest as a course of action?"

[ ][ADVICE] What is Starfleet's suggestion?
 
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So, I did write a thing for this yesterday...


Stage 1: Communication
1) First, ask the Caitians to back off for a little. Tell them to only patrol their borders (as in, actual, openly acknowledged borders, not their interpretation of where their borders lie). Send some ships to support their efforts.

2) Attempt to make contact from long distance and enter in a discourse. Ask to know the state of our diplomat and citizen and demand an explanation for their attack. Give them some time (Let's say a day or two) to make a response, but continue to send messages. If after the allotted time they still don't respond, send them an ultimatum. They either respond within a much shorter timeframe (a couple of hours), or we will intrude in their territory to make contact with their government.

3.A) If they answer our communications, make sure to get answers to the above two questions: 1. Current state of our ambassador 2. Explanation for their attack

4.A) If the Dawiar answer in good faith, continue with communication and attempt to reach a diplomatic solution from there.

3.B) If no answer is received, or it is clear that the Dawiar are dodging our questions/refusing to answer/bidding for more time, inform them in one final message that an Excelsior will be dispatched to the Oriolis system.

Stage 2: Incursion
4.B) Deploy an Excelsior to the Oriolis system and hail the government/flagship/space station directly, this way there is no doubt that they received the message. Repeat the same questions: Ambassador? Why attack? This time also ask why they refuse to answer our communications/refuse to answer in good faith. If the Dawiar attack, do not return fire. Send out an open message to all ships that we only wish for a peaceful solution to the current dilemma, and wish for an explanation to be made regarding the Dawiar's behaviour. If they continue firing after several such messages, the ships is to commence active scans of all ships and orbital installations in order to find the Ambassador and possible captured survivors from the Polaris.

5.A) If the Ambassador is found in good health, the ship should attempt to beam him out. If beaming him out is impossible without engaging in combat, then the ship is to retreat.

5.B) If the Ambassador is found in bad health or in critical condition, the ship is to attempt to beam him out. If beaming him out is impossible without engaging in combat, then the ship is allowed to engage in limited combat in order to ensure the retrieval of the Ambassador so long as doing so does not put the ship in significant danger. Afterwards the ship is to retreat.

Stage 3: Invasion
6) If no diplomatic advancements have been made, a task force of multiple combat ships is to be assembled. The task force is ideally formed out of multiple Excelsior-class ships,is to possess numerical parity with the Dawiar fleet and eclipse its combined combat capabilities. The goal of this task force is to represent an impossible combat scenario to the Dawiar. If possible a hospital ship, or a ship repurposed to serve as one, should be available and follow closely after the task force. A team of experienced diplomats and representatives of the Federation Council is also to accompany the task force. No Caitian ships are to be included in this task force, as their presence could be misunderstood as the Federation intending to engage in hostilities.

7) Once the task force arrives in the Oriolis system, they are to, once again, state that the Federation seeks a peaceful solution to this conflict. They should also make the following clear:
1. The Dawiar have no (significant?) numerical advantage
2. Their ships are individually inferior to our own
3. Our effective combat power excels their own.

If diplomatic overtures fail to make any headway, the Federation will see itself forced to retrieve its citizen(s?). This is their last chance. Return our ambassador and explain their actions, else we will consider this an act of war and retaliate in kind.

8) Should combat ensue, then the task force is to aim only to disable, not destroy. All surrenders are to be accepted. Non-hostile ships, or those unable to pose a threat to our shields, are not to be targeted. Medical aid is to be extended to all, irrelevant of their previous hostilities. Security teams are to remain on standby for any possible desperation boarders among the supposedly injured.

9) Once hostilities have ended, the task force is to attempt to locate the ambassador. A message is to be dispatched to Federation Headquarters and update on the current situation. The diplomatic team is to attempt to communicate with the Dawiar government. No meetings shall be held planetside.

Thoughts regarding this?
 
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