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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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Something to remember is that the Federation is fragile.

@OneirosTheWriter told us outright that one of the major reasons that the Federation Council doesn't want to be in a war is that they're terrified of the political strains it will place upon the inter-species alliance that is the Federation. There's an awful lot of "we" talk, but look at how all the member worlds still have their own fleets. It wouldn't take very much for the dream that is the Federation to shatter back into a bunch of moderate power individual species, even after all this time. Hell, even this idea of "adding new members" is an untested risk. Strains that can be balanced between humans, vulcans, andorians, and tellarites might prove impossible to manage when you've got six or seven or more member races to try and find agreement among.

So if you think the Federation is playing this too cautiously, remember that it would be far better to "lose" affiliates to the Cardassians than to have the Federation itself collapse under its own weight.
 
Simon_Jester said:
You'd think we'd have at least enough minimal information about the Dawiar that on investigation and research we could find out why they're behaving the way they do. Picard sorted out quite a few problems like this by investigating them, even when dealing with little-known worlds outside Federation space.

And @pheonix89, the thing is, as the Federation we do in fact have the choice of making some kind of mutually satisfactory arrangement with the Dawiar. Just like we settled accounts with the Klingons, who were much more threatening and did considerably worse things to us.

I'd be perfectly happy if the end state of this situation agrees with the Dawiar becoming stable, neutral members of the galactic community, who get to keep expanding, and to share the space between them and the Caitians.

In order to make that happen, though, we have to convince the Dawiar to listen to us, and then make an arrangement they're willing to honor. The real point of debate is how to accomplish that goal. And we really do need to understand the border dispute, if we're going to do that.
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It's not about the border dispute anymore. It doesn't MATTER what the details of the dispute were anymore. It's about the Dawiar being perfideous, murdering assholes.

We're already de facto at war. Or did you miss the destroyed starship, dead crew, and kidnapped diplomats?

If people really want to try diplomacy one more time, send Enterprise. With explict orders that getting home in one piece is top priority, and authorization to shoot first if need be.
random_npc said:
point. though we could probably get away with providing defensive aid. ie we guard their borders freeing up there home fleet to attack. Still, we are going to at least try to talk this out because we are the federation, so we can discuses military intervention if and when that fails.
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We already tried to talk it out. This whole mess started because we tried to talk, and the Dawiar picked murder instead.
Briefvoice said:
Something to remember is that the Federation is fragile.

@OneirosTheWriter told us outright that one of the major reasons that the Federation Council doesn't want to be in a war is that they're terrified of the political strains it will place upon the inter-species alliance that is the Federation. There's an awful lot of "we" talk, but look at how all the member worlds still have their own fleets. It wouldn't take very much for the dream that is the Federation to shatter back into a bunch of moderate power individual species, even after all this time. Hell, even this idea of "adding new members" is an untested risk. Strains that can be balanced between humans, vulcans, andorians, and tellarites might prove impossible to manage when you've got six or seven or more member races to try and find agreement among.

So if you think the Federation is playing this too cautiously, remember that it would be far better to "lose" affiliates to the Cardassians than to have the Federation itself collapse under its own weight.
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They can not want to be in a war all they want. The war is already on.

There's a reason that my proposal for ending it by force was a single overwhelming strike using combined Starfleet Caitian assets. No touching member assets, no actions a minor power could meaningfully oppose. Just roll in with Enterprise, three or more other Excelsiors, a Caitian strike group, and some light assets, and end the war by smashing their fleet and shipyards in one go. A war will place political strains, a one-sided asskicking not so much. These guys aren't even a moderate power, they can't fight that kind of force.
 
pheonix89 said:
We already tried to talk it out. This whole mess started because we tried to talk, and the Dawiar picked murder instead.
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and because we are the federation we are going to give them one more chance, and we might actually be able to pull it off. If only because responding to such a blatant act of aggression with a diplomatic team most likely does not mesh with the narrative the cardassians are selling them.
 
I think that we should go to secondary mediation with the Klingons. (The Romulans are too far away, and don't have meaningful relations with literally anyone that's not us)

HOWEVER, at the same time we throw up a cordon around Dwair space and inspect all vessels entering the area. We should be making sure that the entire situation resolves itself without outside interference, much like Starfleet's actions during the Klingon Civil war in 2370.

If the Dwair fuck up the Mediation we drop the entire explorer corps (or equivalent) on their heads. And we make that clear, that we could have started with that, but we waited.
 
Algalon said:
As far as any polity is concerned, gunboat diplomacy would not only be perfectly acceptable, it would probably even be considered a gentle and only slight response to what the Dawiar did.

The moment they broke the banner of truce they lost all credibility in the face of all powers in the quadrant. The only one who would oppose such a measure would, ironically, be the Federation itself.

I like the idea of calling in the Romulans or the Klingons. If things go to shit again, then either of those two will come down upon the Dawiar like the fist of an angry god, and perhaps draw them closer into the Federation/Cardassian conflict should significant Cardassian involvement be revealed. It would also help to develop our growing bonds with the Romulans that we trust them enough to mediate between us and somebody else, or the Klingons for that matter. Though we have to make sure they understand exactly what happened, and are aware of the risk of the Dawiar pulling another stunt like that.

However, assuming that calling in another major power isn't possible, and that the Council (or Oneiros) grants us significant input, here is what I've worked out so far:

Stage 1: Communication
1) First, ask the Caitians to back off for a little. Tell them to only patrol their borders (as in, actual, openly acknowledged borders, not their interpretation of where their borders lie). Send some ships to support their efforts.

2) Attempt to make contact from long distance and enter in a discourse. Ask to know the state of our diplomat and citizen and demand an explanation for their attack. Give them some time (Let's say a day or two) to make a response, but continue to send messages. If after the allotted time they still don't respond, send them an ultimatum. They either respond within a much shorter timeframe (a couple of hours), or we will intrude in their territory to make contact with their government.

3.A) If they answer our communications, make sure to get answers to the above two questions: 1. Current state of our ambassador 2. Explanation for their attack

4.A) If the Dawiar answer in good faith, continue with communication and attempt to reach a diplomatic solution from there.

3.B) If no answer is received, or it is clear that the Dawiar are dodging our questions/refusing to answer/bidding for more time, inform them in one final message that an Excelsior will be dispatched to the Oriolis system.

Stage 2: Incursion
4.B) Deploy an Excelsior to the Oriolis system and hail the government/flagship/space station directly, this way there is no doubt that they received the message. Repeat the same questions: Ambassador? Why attack? This time also ask why they refuse to answer our communications/refuse to answer in good faith. If the Dawiar attack, do not return fire. Send out an open message to all ships that we only wish for a peaceful solution to the current dilemma, and wish for an explanation to be made regarding the Dawiar's behaviour. If they continue firing after several such messages, the ships is to commence active scans of all ships and orbital installations in order to find the Ambassador and possible captured survivors from the Polaris.

5.A) If the Ambassador is found in good health, the ship should attempt to beam him out. If beaming him out is impossible without engaging in combat, then the ship is to retreat.

5.B) If the Ambassador is found in bad health or in critical condition, the ship is to attempt to beam him out. If beaming him out is impossible without engaging in combat, then the ship is allowed to engage in limited combat in order to ensure the retrieval of the Ambassador so long as doing so does not put the ship in significant danger. Afterwards the ship is to retreat.

Stage 3: Invasion
6) If no diplomatic advancements have been made, a task force of multiple combat ships is to be assembled. The task force is ideally formed out of multiple Excelsior-class ships,is to possess numerical parity with the Dawiar fleet and eclipse its combined combat capabilities. The goal of this task force is to represent an impossible combat scenario to the Dawiar. If possible a hospital ship, or a ship repurposed to serve as one, should be available and follow closely after the task force. A team of experienced diplomats and representatives of the Federation Council is also to accompany the task force. No Caitian ships are to be included in this task force, as their presence could be misunderstood as the Federation intending to engage in hostilities.

7) Once the task force arrives in the Oriolis system, they are to, once again, state that the Federation seeks a peaceful solution to this conflict. They should also make the following clear:
1. The Dawiar have no (significant?) numerical advantage
2. Their ships are individually inferior to our own
3. Our effective combat power excels their own.

If diplomatic overtures fail to make any headway, the Federation will see itself forced to retrieve its citizen(s?). This is their last chance. Return our ambassador and explain their actions, else we will consider this an act of war and retaliate in kind.

8) Should combat ensue, then the task force is to aim only to disable, not destroy. All surrenders are to be accepted. Non-hostile ships, or those unable to pose a threat to our shields, are not to be targeted. Medical aid is to be extended to all, irrelevant of their previous hostilities. Security teams are to remain on standby for any possible desperation boarders among the supposedly injured.

9) Once hostilities have ended, the task force is to attempt to locate the ambassador. A message is to be dispatched to Federation Headquarters and update on the current situation. The diplomatic team is to attempt to enter in negotiation with the Dawiar government. No meetings shall be held planetside.
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Simon_Jester said:
The question is, just how many times do we try peace, and how much risk to our own people do we accept?
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The thing is that is not a decision that is up to us/Starfleet to make. We don't set foreign policy, we don't decide whether to invade, declare war or not and we don't decide just what the hell an affiliate actually is and to what degree we support or not support them as well as how they can interact with other civilisations (and I would generally be careful there - affiliates are sovereign states fully capable of making their own decisions even if they go against our wishes and if we demand that for example the Cardians cease to get involved in them I think the Cardassians can rightfully demand that we stop "messing" with their vassals (like for example the Syndrax etc.).

Starfleet, like any other responsible military organization in a democratic system, does not set foreign policy - especially not on such a fundamental level! It is not up to us to decide to send diplomats or not (though I think it would certainly make sense to get the option to push the government to take certain options) and it is also not our right to decide to get other galactic superpowers involved in this local conflict.

We are an admiral - not an emperor, not an dictator nor the president.
 
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pheonix89 said:
It's not about the border dispute anymore. It doesn't MATTER what the details of the dispute were anymore. It's about the Dawiar being perfideous, murdering assholes.

We're already de facto at war. Or did you miss the destroyed starship, dead crew, and kidnapped diplomats?

If people really want to try diplomacy one more time, send Enterprise. With explict orders that getting home in one piece is top priority, and authorization to shoot first if need be.

We already tried to talk it out. This whole mess started because we tried to talk, and the Dawiar picked murder instead.

They can not want to be in a war all they want. The war is already on.

There's a reason that my proposal for ending it by force was a single overwhelming strike using combined Starfleet Caitian assets. No touching member assets, no actions a minor power could meaningfully oppose. Just roll in with Enterprise, three or more other Excelsiors, a Caitian strike group, and some light assets, and end the war by smashing their fleet and shipyards in one go. A war will place political strains, a one-sided asskicking not so much. These guys aren't even a moderate power, they can't fight that kind of force.
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While I agree that we need to be willing to use force to crush the Dawians (if only to assuage the fear of our affiliates regarding their security), diplomacy must be our first solution. Always.

If we go with a military decapitation strike right away, some may try and spin it as our ideals being only smoke and air.

First diplomacy. If it fails we have proof that we at least tried and so don't come off as too hawkish. Should also prevent people like Stesk from rising a stink: We tried diplomacy, it failed. Again. The Federation will not tolerate such behaviour, however. Task Force Excelsior is go. Fuck'em up.
 
People. We already tried diplomacy. We lost a bunch of good people when our olive branch was met with antimatter. Why do you insist on getting more people killed?

If you're going to try again, at least send a ship that can blast its way clear with authorization to do that.
 
pheonix89 said:
People. We already tried diplomacy. We lost a bunch of good people when our olive branch was met with antimatter. Why do you insist on getting more people killed?

If you're going to try again, at least send a ship that can blast its way clear with authorization to do that.
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Because that is not our fucking decision to make? I am not sure how much clearer I can be. The decision if this means war or not and if we should invade the Dawair or not is simplify not up to us (at leats not if the Federation works even remotely like a normal state/nation). It is the Federation Council that has the authority and legitimation to make such a decision, not us.
 
random_npc said:
A Queens Thoughts
excerpts form the diary of a high queen.​

I worry about the future of my people. so far the Cardassian have contented themselves with skirmishing, and driving us away from resources, but I fear that this will not last. They seem determined to extend their reach into our region of space, and while we are too small to fight them, we are strong enough that they will likely find our continued independence near their borders a threat. From what little we have been able to work out about their culture they seem to hold all other species in contempt, though they make at least token efforts to hide it. Life under them would be unpleasant, though I fear we may one day soon be forced to chose between life under their rule or extinction.

Well our position seems to have changed, Izzidiera reports having made first contact with another large power. They showed up in a warship the size of our largest queenship and chased of a Cardassian cruiser. They call themselves the Federation and seem to be a multi race alliance, it seems their are 4 full members and a number of "associates". Their first contact packet was incredibly forthcoming, though it appears to be painting an idealized picture. Izzidiera's report indicates that they seem sincere, but just because they are telling the truth as they know it doesn't mean they are presenting an accurate picture. We've met more than a few Cardassians who honestly believed we would be better off with their boot on our neck. Still, even in the worst case where the Federation is just as bad as the Cardassians our situation has improved, if nothing else we can play them off one another for a better deal.

Izzidiera seems to have interpreted my order to find out more about them rather personally. She has gotten herself attached to the Federation's flagship "enterprise" as a diplomatic envoy. Her report put significant emphasis on having no personal reason for going herself, and spends considerable time both waxing poetic about the captains exotic beauty, and insisting she is utterly insufferable. Ah, young love.

It seems the Cardassians are taking the Federation seriously, they tried to frame them for destroying a number of foragers. When their duplicity was uncovered they claim not to have destroyed our ships themselves, and for the sake of avoiding war the council has chosen to pretend to believe them. Damn them, hundreds of our people are dead for a transparent political ploy! The union has consistently shown it places no value on the lives of other species, I shudder to think of the atrocities they would commit in open war.

Meetings with the Federation diplomats officially began today, they were not what I was expecting. I had expected talks of high ideals in public, and typical political maneuvering in private. The public talk of high ideals was present, but the only thing that changed in private was they started discussing specifics. As a probe I started hinting about asking for help in a fictional disputes with the Indorians, I had to get rather blunt before he realized I was not looking for fair mediation. He reacted like i'd asked him to serve me his child roasted, it took hours to get the talks back on track. It has to be an act, no one is that naïve.

it's not an act.

Its official, we are throwing our lot in with the Federation, with hardly any bargaining or subterfuge. Izzodia is immensely disappointed, she'd worked so hard on all sorts of ploys and schemes to play them of the Cardassians to get a better deal. It would have been immensely useful if the Federation didn't seem allergic to normal politicking. Still it works out in our favor, even if i'm starting to worry about their ability to protect us if war actually breaks out.

It looks like the Federations claims of being a post scarcity society is a bit of an exaggeration. Particularly complex or large goods such as starships or industrial equipment remain at least somewhat scarce. What they actually are is a post poverty society, though how it actually works is somewhat beyond me, despite Chozzia's many and enthusiastic attempts to explain it. The gist of it is that every Federation citizen is given an allotment of resources that allows for a comfortable standard of living, with them being able to request more for certain projects. Chozzia was adorably exited about the approval process used to prioritize these requests. So far the closest thing to a down side to this is that it seems their is a lot of bartering and Zizzon trading at the lower levels if someone wants something they can't requisition. I have just been informed at length that such behavior is not a downside, it in fact encourages citizen to pick up various skills they can barter with, that my summary is grossly misleading and that someone needs to stop reading over my shoulder unless they wan't to sleep in their own room tonight.

Well today's incident only reinforces my view of the Federation, good and bad. One of their affiliate members is moving up to become a full member, with all the rights and responsibility that entails, only for some most likely scaly murder to try and bomb the diplomats. The Federation's response has been... somewhat weak. On one hand that it is possible to become a full member of the Federation is heartening. A path towards being more than a client state, even a well treated one is welcome, on the other hand that their reaction has been so limp wristed only further drives home the point that they may not be as skilled protectors as the seem. The last big threat they dealt with was some strange disease, apparently it gave them some trouble. I've sent Izzodia to investigate the quarantine zone, I'll miss her but getting a first hand account of the Federation on a war footing would be invaluable for knowing how much we can lean on them. In the meantime i'm going to have to look into becoming a full member, now that I know its possible.

Well I think I've finally found the hidden barb in the syrup comb we've all been looking for. It was in plain sight the entire time too, they won't let us join until we make drones workers and queens equal under the law. Looking back at it, it's rather blindingly obvious, of course a bunch of aliens who don't have proper queens would have strange ideas about workers. They know that's against our very nature! But apparently when pressed they made noises about self determination and sapient creatures being able to rise above! Broken hive its a biological imperative! Not a moral failing! Still,if a compromise could be reached... full membership would be quite the prize. Hopefully they would be satisfied with just our laws conforming to their crazy demands, I don't think getting the actual customs to conform would be possible. I miss Izzodia, she's good at the kind of twisty thinking we need now.

I think I've seen a light at the end of the tunnel. We were visited by a defective human. Or at least the closet thing they have. Apparently he runs a freighter transporting goods. It's an elegant solution, someone who wasn't able to fit in among society now works a job where he is both useful and largely removed from it. I think we could use a similar solution, most of the mainstream arguments against giving the drones and workers representation fall apart if their is somewhere they can head off to. Simply leaving for another part of Federation space would be would be near perfect for that, it gives them somewhere pleasant to head out to, removes disruptive elements, and neatly sidesteps the paranoid fear of some colony of defectives waging war on us. I'll have to run it by Chozzia to see if insisting anyone who wants to leave gets their travel requisition fast tracked would be feasible, but if so I think we might be able to pull it off. Yet more good news, I got a subspace message from Izzodia saying she's on her way back.

Izzodia is perhaps the strongest drone I know, I consider myself lucky to have her. I've seen her walk though hell unprompted because it was necessary, I've seen her play the bloody game of knives in the dark because it was the only way to keep me safe, and I've seen her meet blackest atrocity with coldly calculating retribution. Today I saw her terrified. She barley kept composer until we where alone in my chambers. She refused to give anything but the most clinical and dispassionate summary of the biophage, and frankly that was enough. Federation ships burning civilian transports out of space, ships self destructing as soon as they were touched, a people burning their own homeworld, gods what did I force her to see? Per Izzodia's strong insistence I've began distributing the vaccine as widely as possible, and having our admirals draw up a worst case scenario plans. We knew their were monsters in the dark, but this, this thing was beyond our wildest nightmares. No wonder the Federation doesn't seem to be taking the Cardassians seriously, if that abomination was is the sort of thing they are used to dealing with.

I've shared izzodia's findings with the rest of the high queens, fears of Federation not being able to protect us are both reduced and heightened. On one hand getting a better understanding of the Federation capabilities on a war footing was reassuring, on the other hand we now know their are things out their far far worse than the Cardassians. A proposal to petition starfleet for more resources to bolster our defense fleets was put forward, I don't think anyone voted against it.​
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This is nice, but I'm wondering if you could have put in dividers between each entry? I'm not going to lie, I was getting a little confused by each entry rolling directly into the next. Each excerpt should probably have a date or a title, or something else to set it apart.

Leila Hann said:
Consider this a supplement to @AKuz's writeup.

Omake: Debts Incurred


From: Legate First Class Oratun, Chairman Obsidian Order
To: Central Command


The Obsidian Order has now completed its investigation of the Enterprise incident, a task for which I would like to relay my most disingenuous thanks to the Cardassian Defense Force's internal affairs for its assistance. Whenever the Order task force found itself wanting for hysteria, wild speculation, or outright magical thinking, our peers in the military proved more than eager to supply these things, solicited or otherwise. A certain late Legate Cormai in particular proved himself a very counterproductive influence.

The recent sensationalism surrounding the Federation captain Nash Ka'Sharren and the subversive threat she could potentially pose to weak willed Cardassian servicemen has blinded some otherwise rational eyes to the big picture. Nothing about the sequence of events during the battle suggests that the Enterprise massively outperformed the combat abilities we have documented for its ship class, nor have subsequent investigations revealed any hint of treachery from those who were aware of the ambush before its execution. Rather, the answer comes in the form of an intelligence report from our sources within the Federation's sphere of influence concerning their growing integration of a client species known as "Betazoid." Our sources have confirmed that this species is possessed of considerable psionic abilities, potentially exceeding those of the Burzeen. As you are hopefully already aware, exceptional Burzeen individuals can, with sufficient experience and training, detect the presence of a sentient mind even across orbital distances.

If the Federation has subjugated the Betazoids to the point where their loyalty can be counted upon, it would stand to reason that each of their capital ships would have such an empowered individual aboard. Another reliable source has informed us of the Federation's penchant for the tactical triggering of solar flares. The obvious conclusion is that the Enterprise's betazoid detected the minds of the Golot's crew when the battlecruiser moved in close for the surprise attack, which gave the enemy sufficient time to reassess the situation and choose the solar flare tactic.

By turning Ka'Sharren into a boogeyman, we have allowed ourselves to forget that the Federation threat is posed by the Federation, not any one of its overly glorified conquistadores. All CDF captains should henceforth assume that Federation telepaths can detect and anticipate them within combat-capable distances. We have already started our own new procautions to protect Obsidian Order operatives from psionic detection.


…


Medical Log: Spec. Lieutenant Asurva, Stardate 22797.1


Ensign Taezae has been placed on medical leave pending a follow-up exam next quarter. My neural scan didn't show any abnormalities beyond the heightened fear and stress levels you'd expect from his story, but I'm not ruling out the possibility of some subtle disorder. There's nothing in his psych exam that suggests he'd be prone to hallucinations, even in a stressful situation like the one we just had with the Cardassians.

Just to be on the safe side, the engineering team did a full diagnostic of the warp core and aortal plasma conduits to check for anything that could have teased his imagination in his anxious state during the battle. Nothing out of the ordinary, and certainly nothing that could look like "something…alive…writhing against the containment field." His choice of words remind me just a bit of the biophage. He has been reading the logs from our previous Five Year Mission, so that might have influenced him.

With that unpleasant business done, I'm ready to just go back to being glad that psychological casualties are the worst thing I'm dealing with. I don't know how the Captain managed to steer us out of that one, but I'm not about to bring a free omnisuit to the diagnostician.

…

"One good turn earns another. Wasn't that among the only things we…agreed about, Captain Nash KaSharren Of The Federation Starship Enterprise?"

Nash floated in the frigid black sea, the liquid air and stars pulling at her face and antennae as she tried to look around. Where…who was she? Why was this?

"Your forgotten friend told you it would cross paths at another junction, Captain Nash KaSharren of the Federation Starship Enterprise. When you…freed…me from between the twin suns, that was why I withdrew my…outermost constituencies…from yourself and your crew.You will remember shortly."

The memory returned hazily, bubbling up from the starry abyss of darkness and time. The two suns, yanking ferociously at the field of exotic particles suspended between them. The radiation sickness that Asurva hadn't seen anything quite like. How she had gotten the Enterprise free in the end…oh ice, how could she have possibly forgotten?

"Your…warp…core…breach…presented an opportunity. Another such junction. Twenty-six such instances in total, on account of my persistance."

A tentacle passed before her face, writhing and squirming against the fractal nothingness. She remembered it all now. She remembered everything. She remembered everything about the Biroth Incident.

"Well, I have taken the liberty of delivering another such…good turn. If I am not mistaken, this would place you in my debt, this time?"

The coldness was inside of her now.

"The next time we…cross paths…I will take additional steps to ensure you retain the memory of my…request. It should only be a small favor. Rest well, Captain Nash Ka'Sharren of the Federation Starship Enterprise."

And then she was back on the bridge, watching the solar flare tear through the Cardassian warships.



(possible omake bonus: Ka'Sharren gets a bonus to survival chances in situations involving exotic physics, but at some point the entity will call in its debt, which may or may not conflict with Federation interests or values)
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As a quick point, Doctor Asurva boarded Enterprise as a Lieutenant Commander and is a full Commander now. And... it is very well written, but... sorta runs counter to what I've got written about both incidents.
 
Starfleet has a wide latitude for, um, Kirk'ing out. Comes with the isolated nature of space exploration.

But the Federation Council definitely reserves for itself all matters of war and peace. War is too important to be left to the Admirals.

IC you'll be asked to provide the Council with a range of options of varying degrees of 'robustness'. OOC I certainly wouldn't ask you to go to that much trouble, so that'll all be glossed over :p Rather, you'll get asked for a general opinion on the matter. This isn't a choice to decide what the Federation does, it's more of an opportunity to shift the political culture a little.
 
Erandil said:
Because that is not our fucking decision to make? I am not sure how much clearer I can be. The decision if this means war or not and if we should invade the Dawair or not is simplify not up to us (at leats not if the Federation works even remotely like a normal state/nation). It is the Federation Council that has the authority and legitimation to make such a decision, not us.
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It's not up to us IC, but OOC we have a ton of influence. And we do have IC influence. Spin. Presentation. Requests. Suggestions.
 
I think our recommendation should be to bring the Dawiar to the negotiating table as quickly as possible to get to the bottom of the issue - and if the Cardassians were involved, to dispel any misconceptions the Dawiar might have about us. We should move quickly and decisively before the war between the Catians and the Dawiar heats up, so that we may save the greatest number of lives. The most likely method of doing that in my opinion is to send a diplomatic and investigative delegation backed up by a sufficient show of force to deter any sort of attack. Enough power that to overcome it the Dawiar would lose so many ships that they are almost guaranteed to lose a war with the Catians. At the same time, make it so that show of force doesn't act aggressively, they're just chilling in a loose stellar orbit around the Dawiar primary.

This reaffirms our commitment to peace, while showing that belligerent powers cannot take advantage of the Federations dovish tendencies to further their own agendas at the expense of the Federation and it's allies.
 
pheonix89 said:
We know roughly what has been going on - they're having some disagreement about border claims.
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Given that people are shooting at Federation vessels for no reason readily apparent to us, getting details on exactly what's been going down has suddenly moved up on Starfleet's list of priorities.

Simon_Jester said:
Honestly, I'd vote for inviting the Klingons to mediate the peace treaty, for comedy value alone.
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This, so much. Now, where is that 'Send in the Klingons!' picture...?

drake_azathoth said:
The Romulans are a riskier choice, but they are perfectly capable of more conventional diplomacy
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Since you've mentioned Romulans, does anyone know if they're still in a dustup with the Klingons? If tensions between those two are still high, giving the Klingon government a legitimate distraction (managing a peace conference) could be viewed as an indirect favor to the Romulan Star Empire...

@AKuz, your thoughts?

pheonix89 said:
It's about the Dawiar being perfideous, murdering assholes.
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And a case could have been made that the Romulans were being perfidous, murdering assholes when they bombed USS Cheron and tried to burn both Federation and Klingon holdings. We don't hold that against them because we figured out there was more going on than we knew. It may be unwise to discard the possibility that something screwy is going on here, too. If there is a Cardassian plot underway, successfully unraveling it could pay dividends.

pheonix89 said:
If people really want to try diplomacy one more time, send Enterprise. With explict orders that getting home in one piece is top priority, and authorization to shoot first if need be.
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Of course we're sending Enterprise, with clear instructions authorizing as energetic a defense as Captain ka'Sharren deems appropriate! As far as I'm concerned, sending anything less than an Excelsior is just asking for trouble; we're in full agreement on that point.

MS-21H 'Hawke' said:
Has SV been taken over by a cult again?
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What do you mean, 'again?'
 
Yea, I totally agree on having our best ship involved in whatever plan the Federation goes with on this.
 
MS-21H 'Hawke' said:
Can we have any details on how the Federation Council is reacting to the Caitian/Dawiar debacle?
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You might have already seen these posts, but for your convenience here is everything that was posted this morning about "how the Federation Council is reacting".

OneirosTheWriter said:
The Council is, to put it bluntly, Not Amused by this turn of events. You haven't lost Political Will because they aren't blaming you (yet), since Starfleet's role in the Caitian-Dawiar matter was Ambassadorial transport.

For one thing, they won't make an Affiliate into a full member if that Affiliate is at war. For another, it represents another escalation of tensions on that frontier. The opinion among the Council is that the Federation is not ready for a war. Even beyond the military front, the Council fears the political stresses of a war given the Amarki and Betazoid membership is so fresh, and so many Affiliates are growing so quickly. They fear the political stresses.

Ratification will be pending the end of the war, unless the Dawiar somehow bring the Federation into it as well. Or you recognise a state of war, either/or.
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OneirosTheWriter said:
And as should be obvious, there are certain signals that are sent when you allow the repair of a warring party's ships at your shipyards during a war that you are, at least nominally, a neutral party to.

Very much so.

Council is fine with it, their sympathies are firmly with the Caitians. They are not the be-all and end-all of ramifications though.
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OneirosTheWriter said:
Dawiar
Nutshell: "Like grumpy dwarves."
Canon/OC: OC
Homeworld: Oriolis III/Kharhazad
Alignment: Martial
Tech: 2200s (Recent data shows their weapons are being brought up to modern spec by Cardassians)
Type: Humanoid
Distinctive Features: Broad and heavy-set, if a little under average human or Vulcan height.
Social: Have associated poorly with others. Although they a unified government, it is one that rose to the top in the aftermath of a devastating war a hundred years ago. Since contact with the Federation, they have found themselves in competition with the Caitian for naturally suitable colony worlds and resources. Their social life is built around extended rather than nuclear families, and they live in frequently clashing communal groups.
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Binge-Reader said:
Only happened in the first place cause they got us involved.
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No-one is proposing to take aggressive action before matters are examined and the Feddy Council makes its call.

But you talk like anyone who isn't willing to act in a completely supine way is advocating an immediate attack...

Erandil said:
The Federation ≠ typical government, especially an "imperialistic" one
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The Federation is shown as being pretty imperialistic.

Particularly in TOS, which is much closer in time to this quest than TNG is. We're still in the era of the Prime Directive being more of an advisory statement than anything else.

In TOS, when a pre-warp planet had something the Federation wants bad enough, Kirk would beam down and try to bribe the natives into allowing themselves to be colonized.

In TNG, the Federation may be more ideologically rigid (whether this actually results in them being nicer is open to interpretation), but it could still be stone cold ruthless when it wanted to be.

I have never, ever, gotten why people ever buy into the idea of the Federation being significantly different in kind from Earthly empires or the idea that Starfleet isn't a military.

The Federation and Starfleet are just more enlightened versions of familiar types of organization.

fasquardon
 
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