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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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random_npc said:
we voted to repair the ship damaged in defense of our crewmen, and there is some talk of sending a diplomatic envoy to the Dawiar guarded by a task force of excelsiors to polity ask them what the hell where they doing firing on one of our ships under a flag of truce.
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That can't possibly be taken the wrong way or be seen as an act of blatant aggression.
 
Binge-Reader said:
I haz returned after failing my Chem test in epic fashion, what happened while I was away? The thread decide to go to war with the entire galaxy?
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Voting is still open (currently at 34 to 4) and probably will be for another 3-5 hours. If you really want you could try to persuade people to deny permission.
 
Binge-Reader said:
That can't possibly be taken the wrong way or be seen as an act of blatant aggression.
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when we sent a typical diplomatic honor guard they responded with an surprise attack, so clearly they don't think much of the idea of a flag of truce. So we send the next diplomat with the assumption that they will kill all present if they think that can get away with it again. They might not like it, but again they opened fire while negating under a flag of truce, no one in the quadrant is going to give an once of space dust what they think.

Once we force them to the table we can ask them why they thought we would need tricks if we were actually hostile.

The alternative would be to send the team in an unarmed runabout. Make it painfully obvious that no threat is present, and bet the lives of the diplomatic team on the honor of someone who just made a fantastic argument that they have none.
 
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We send, at most, one Excelsior or Constitution on a diplomatic trip. Gunboat 'Diplomacy' isn't.

If we want to fully support the Caitians in their war let's push the Council to do it, no need for this "r u gonna fight me bro ; )" chicanery.
 
actually, now that I think about the runabout approach might work better. It would be really hard for them to claim they felt a small unarmed ship was posing a threat, and if they kill a second team then rolling up with a half dozen excelsiors would be far more justified.
 
Honestly, what the Dawiar did was a declaration of war. They ambushed a diplomatic transport from a neutral party. That reasonably speaking should justify forming up an Excelsior task force, flying into their core space and blowing up every military asset we can fin. There are LINES. Blowing up neutral diplomats in a sneak attack crosses a lot of them.
Binge-Reader said:
Only happened in the first place cause they got us involved.
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They asked for a mediator. The Dawiar launched a sneak attack on a diplomatic vessel. Don't go blaming the people who tried to desecalate the problem for the Dawiar being perfidious scumbags.
 
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pheonix89 said:
Honestly, what the Dawiar did was a declaration of war. They ambushed a diplomatic transport from a neutral party. That reasonably speaking should justify forming up an Excelsior task force, flying into their core space and blowing up every military asset we can fin. There are LINES. Blowing up neutral diplomats in a sneak attack crosses a lot of them.
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We will need to bring it up with the Federation Council. Unless @OneirosTheWriter subscribes to some particularly alt-fan theories that the Federation is a dystopian nightmare run by the technocratic Admirals of Starfleet, we cannot unilaterally declare war.
 
Iron Wolf said:
We will need to bring it up with the Federation Council. Unless @OneirosTheWriter subscribes to some particularly alt-fan theories that the Federation is a dystopian nightmare run by the technocratic Admirals of Starfleet, we cannot unilaterally declare war.
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Oh, I know. But what I'm saying is that what the Dawair did is de facto equivalent to declaring war, and that it's very very strange that there may be political issues with acknowledging that.
 
Iron Wolf said:
We will need to bring it up with the Federation Council. Unless @OneirosTheWriter subscribes to some particularly alt-fan theories that the Federation is a dystopian nightmare run by the technocratic Admirals of Starfleet, we cannot unilaterally declare war.
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If we can solve this without more violence, I'd be happy. I'm trusting the council here, because hopefully they have a good enough memory of last few decades to decide wisely.
pheonix89 said:
Oh, I know. But what I'm saying is that what the Dawair did is de facto equivalent to declaring war, and that it's very very strange that there may be political issues with acknowledging that.
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Oh, I agree, if we get the green light...I'll be wanting to send an Excelsior, and some accompaniement to clean up some rude garbage.
 
Yeah... this issue is tangled up in all kinds of political considerations and we need clearer guidelines from the Council as to how they want to proceed.
 
Conspiracy time: this is Oneiros' clever way of reducing Caitian fleet numbers before they join for balance reasons while also giving us a political issue to chew on for a bit.
 
pheonix89 said:
They asked for a mediator. The Dawiar launched a sneak attack on a diplomatic vessel. Don't go blaming the people who tried to desecalate the problem for the Dawiar being perfidious scumbags.
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We actually have no idea what exactly there happened and if/what justification the Dawiar may or may not have. And since I have doubts that the Dawair would (openly) open fire on a Federation ship without a reasonable (at least in their opinion) cause I would really say that we should wait till after we either get more information from the survivors or the ambassador (or intelligence).

Sure you could take this a cause of war if you were looking for one but that wouldn't really fit with the "positive" ideal/portrayal of the Federation. The Federation doesn't go looking for war, especially not before it has exhausted all other options. The Federation is not your "normal" Star Empire XXX but an "enlightened" civilisation. Its first (and second and third reaction) upon encountering a for example dangerous energy species wreaking havoc with a ship is not killing them and planning a genocide but instead trying to come up with a way to communicate with them or ward the ship.
 
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Simon_Jester said:
1) Open communications with the Dawiar from the maximum feasible distance and make enquiries.
2) Do not make any hostile maneuvers, or maneuvers which could plausibly be interpreted hs hostile, toward any Dawiar vessel or installation.
3) Retreat into warp if the task force is attacked, or if it appears that it is about to be attacked by a force that disregards warnings.
4) Open fire if and only if the task force is credibly threatened by the Dawiar (or other species), and if retreat is infeasible.
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I second this, except I think that they should return fire if fired upon and retreat only after the Dawiar let up. We don't want to give them the idea that firing on our ships is ever acceptable behavior.

I believe that they will not fire on us though. Unlike last time, this will be a fight that they know they can't win, and the fact that we're starting the exchange by opening dialogue makes it obvious that they have an option besides fighting. Keep the flotilla at maximum range for realtime communications and start the conversation by asking for an explanation.

Sending a battlefleet to their borders is a hostile act, yes, but I think this act of nonviolent hostility may be necessary to create peace.
 
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"Dear Dawair:

You recently attacked and destroyed one of our vessels. As best as we understand it, your attack was unprovoked, and on a ship that was present as a diplomatic envoy to attempt to mediate a dispute that we were not party to.

Most civilizations in this area would consider this an immediate act of war. However, we are the Federation, and will give you one and only one chance to justify your actions, or make a credible apology. We do understand that sometimes some species make mistakes or act on false information, but actions that result predictable loss of life should be saved for a last resort.

Sincerely,
The United Federation of Planets"
 
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random_npc said:
when we sent a typical diplomatic honor guard they responded with an surprise attack, so clearly they don't think much of the idea of a flag of truce. So we send the next diplomat with the assumption that they will kill all present if they think that can get away with it again. They might not like it, but again they opened fire while negating under a flag of truce, no one in the quadrant is going to give an once of space dust what they think.

Once we force them to the table we can ask them why they thought we would need tricks if we were actually hostile.

The alternative would be to send the team in an unarmed runabout. Make it painfully obvious that no threat is present, and bet the lives of the diplomatic team on the honor of someone who just made a fantastic argument that they have none.
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Um, no. The typical, sane response when you are dealing with said honorless scumbags... Which happens all the time in real life? Ask a neutral party to act as a mediator. This pretty much means if they try shit in said mediator's backyard they acquire another enemy. Which pretty much happened already.

TLDR, instead of sending in gunboats and looking overly belligerent to the Council, or sacrificing another diplomat, we ask the Romulans or Klingons to host a diplomatic meet. If they keep true to character and violate THAT truce they will shortly thereafter cease to be relevant in anyone's calculations.

I'd say we ask the Klingons, if only to see the hilarious Klingon take on hosting a diplomatic meet.
 
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drake_azathoth said:
Um, no. The typical, sane response when you are dealing with said honorless scumbags... Which happens all the time in real life? Ask a neutral party to act as a mediator. This pretty much means if they try shit in said mediator's backyard they acquire another enemy. Which pretty much happened already.

TLDR, instead of sending in gunboats and looking overly belligerent to the Council we ask the Romulans or Klingons to host a diplomatic meet. If they keep true to character and violate THAT truce they will shortly thereafter cease to be relevant in anyone's calculations.

I'd say we ask the Klingons, if only to see the hilarious Klingon take on hosting a diplomatic meet.
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The mediators can't call for mediators, that's just silly.
 
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