How much handwavium are you using to justify their ships? As they'd have to establish relations with the Cardassians, negotiate with the Cardassians for the new systems, get them delivered, then somehow upgrade all (?) of their ships somehow depending on their shipyard infrastructure when it takes the Federation several quarters to a year to simply upgrade them.

Then there's is there still continued Cardassian contact with them, and would an embargo around them work using our fleet to limit Cardassian interference and potential delivery of more weapons systems without Starfleet directly engaging in combat.
 
I'm going to re-iterate my position from earlier:

[ ][ADVICE] Speak Softly and Carry a Big Stick
Bring the Dawiar to the negotiating table as quickly as possible to get to the bottom of the issue - and if the Cardassians were involved, to dispel any misconceptions the Dawiar might have about us. We should move quickly and decisively before the war between the Catians and the Dawiar heats up, so that we may save the greatest number of lives. The most likely method of doing that in my opinion is to send a diplomatic and investigative delegation backed up by a sufficient show of force to deter any sort of attack. Enough power that to overcome it the Dawiar would lose so many ships that they are almost guaranteed to lose a war with the Catians.
At the same time, make it so that show of force doesn't act aggressively, let them remain in a loose stellar orbit around the Dawiar primary. Bringing in the Klingons to arbitrate is something we can propose once we've opened communication channels with the Dawiar, depending on how the situation develops. Rules of engagement are not to fire unless fired upon, and to shoot to disable if necessary. This reaffirms our commitment to peace, while showing that belligerent powers cannot take advantage of the Federations dovish tendencies to further their own agendas at the expense of the Federation and it's allies.

edit: Changed From Seyek to Klingons for arbitration.


I'm just waiting and seeing what people are putting forth.
 
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Changed her rank to Commander.

My omake doesn't actually contradict yours other than that, aside from the "my headcanon about the time loop" aside whose phrasing suggested you weren't especially attached to it. If it really bothers you I can get rid of it, but if you don't mind I'd rather not considering the shortage (for Trek) of arbitrarily powerful extradimensional energy beings in this quest so far.

*Shrug* I just have no idea what I'd do with your version, I had liked the idea of some residual effect from the Nexus encounter. So I'll just elect to leave it there, undisputed. Presumably you have your own plans. I may choose to completely it ignore later if something comes up that I think fits better. (Of course I have no idea what that'd be)


[x][ADVICE] Contain, Mediate, Enlighten.

Phase 1: Starfleet contains the situation by setting up inspection patrols around the area and officially declaring that we will allow no outside military intervention until the situation is resolved peacefully, including searching for military equipment. Attempt to figure out exactly how this happened, placed increased scrutiny on the Caitain side of events and begin a closer look at our known Dwair xenology reports. Perhaps someone tipped a Dwair Taboo or misread a custom.

Perhaps ask for Betazoids to help out keeping the peace and helping us detect ships smuggling in weapons or hidden Cardassians (Presumably if a Cardassian Cruiser strolls up we let them through to prevent triggering a war.)

Phase 2: Simultaneously with Phase 1 is being implemented, Invite in a relatively neutral power known to the Dwiar to act as mediators, and start mediation on a neutral world with them acting as arbitrators. Hopefully the Dwair will react more favorably to a second great power who seem more their speed. Or if not, then they've pissed off two great powers. Send Enterprise along with our ambassadors, to let them know that we mean business.

Phase 3: If the Dwair continue to refuse to co-operate and reject mediation or break off talks, drop the equivalent of the entire explorer corps at the edge of their system to show how impossible victory is. Do not seek battle, however, just as a final show of force that will perhaps shock them into negotiation.
 
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The Seyek are too far away to be of use. No chance the Dawiar know of them, and they are technically already biased to us since not only have we talked to them, we are also a state consisting of multiple species.

They are also a 'minor' power, so it'd be easy for people to claim that we're bribing or influencing them.

The Klingons or the Romulans would be the best candidates, sadly. They should be well known to the Dawiar and other powers (except the Cardassians :V). Their past history with the Federation should also be relatively known, so less chance of the catspaw argument.

We really need to make a public statement ASAP though. The Amarki, Caitians, Apiate and our potential affiliates and members need to know that the Federation will have their back in such a situation, we just won't use war or violence as our first choice of method.

How much handwavium are you using to justify their ships? As they'd have to establish relations with the Cardassians, negotiate with the Cardassians for the new systems, get them delivered, then somehow upgrade all (?) of their ships somehow depending on their shipyard infrastructure when it takes the Federation several quarters to a year to simply upgrade them.

Then there's is there still continued Cardassian contact with them, and would an embargo around them work using our fleet to limit Cardassian interference and potential delivery of more weapons systems without Starfleet directly engaging in combat.
It's very likely that the Dawiar have spent the last years purely researching weapons technology. When they met the Sarek they completely failed to make any impression. For a martial culture, that is a disaster.
 
How much handwavium are you using to justify their ships? As they'd have to establish relations with the Cardassians, negotiate with the Cardassians for the new systems, get them delivered, then somehow upgrade all (?) of their ships somehow depending on their shipyard infrastructure when it takes the Federation several quarters to a year to simply upgrade them.

Then there's is there still continued Cardassian contact with them, and would an embargo around them work using our fleet to limit Cardassian interference and potential delivery of more weapons systems without Starfleet directly engaging in combat.
They're scale 1 armour blocks with new torpedoes in their tubes. It wasn't really anything beyond that.
 
It's very likely that the Dawiar have spent the last years purely researching weapons technology. When they met the Sarek they completely failed to make any impression. For a martial culture, that is a disaster.
That doesn't mean much though if they were starting off from 2200's base technology.

They're scale 1 armour blocks with new torpedoes in their tubes. It wasn't really anything beyond that.
Are they capable of building those Cardassian torpedoes themselves already, or are they being delivered while the Dawiar slowly tech up and create the industry to make them?
 
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Transporters are somewhat concerning with the possibility of beaming bombs onto warp cores.

Why doesn't that happen?
Because you cannot, as a rule, beam through shields. If shields are down, beaming a bomb onto a ship is more practical, but if their shields are down, and you're within transporter range, why not just torpedo them?

I kinda of agree. I get intellectually we have made the union bleed, but its hard to keep that in mind when all we know is that they have taken vague but serous losses, but we still get some massive hit out of the blue ever few turns.
If we're counting score in this Great Game of ours:

They've lost two cruisers and a battlecruiser. We've lost one cruiser. They've lost an entire forward intelligence base. We've lost none. They've tried to subvert at least four species, succeeded once, and lost three times. Our high command is coping with them. Their high command is politically purging itself because Nash's sheer ludicrous levels of sexy ass-kicking is an outside context problem, a level of [40k]HERESY[/40k] their scaly little brains cannot begin to fathom.

On the whole, I don't think we're losing.

Also:

[X][ADVICE] Contain, Mediate, Enlighten.

Because yeah, what AKuz said. It takes my original operational proposal, and integrates it into a real honest-to-Q strategy, adding more intermediate steps in place to make the plan a bit better and considerably more likely to work.
 
Ever heard the phrase 'no plan survives contact with the enemy'? We don't even have the authority to do most of that stuff.
The president is asking for advice. That's it. And none of that plan relies on any moving parts or specific responses from the Dawiar. If they agree to talk right away? Perfect. If they don't? Keep going down the plan.

It's rather simply, if very lengthy put. To summarize it: Prevent outbreak of more fights, try to talk. If they refuse to talk, tell them we're sending in a ship if they don't talk. If they still don't want to talk, send in an Excelsior to ask them in person.

If they start attacking the Excelsior, keep insisting that we just want to talk. If they still don't stop, try to look for the Ambassador. If none of that works, or the ship is in danger, get out.

Afterwards, send in a significant task force, including something to supply medical aid in case that violence ensues. Again, tell them we only want to talk and give them an opportunity to explain themselves. Make sure they know that they literally can't win this as a form of intimidation. They are a martial culture, so intimidation might be a cultural thing.

If they still insist in fighting, give it to them. Shoot to disable, not kill.

[x][ADVICE] Contain, Mediate, Enlighten.

AKuz's plan basically has every I want anyway.
 
We really need to make a public statement ASAP though. The Amarki, Caitians, Apiate and our potential affiliates and members need to know that the Federation will have their back in such a situation, we just won't use war or violence as our first choice of method.
I think people are taking the idea of my 'peace summit' idea a bit literally.

Just as often as not, it's a public arena where a power like the Federation can thumb their noses at folks like the Daiwar and say 'Screw you, we're repairing a Caitian ship because we LIKE them, and if you keep fighting our buddies we'll crush you like a grape'. It's a more civilized way of thumbing your nose than invading their space or massing ships on their border, which is frankly absurdly provocative even in RL. Who ELSE is near the Daiwar border and would they be keen on Starfleet massing what could well be an invasion fleet near their border?

I'm not even sure what 'Contain' really means. Are you honestly suggesting we blockade the Daiwar by preventing other neutral species from doing business with them? That's absurdly provocative, I'm not even sure the Klingons would try that, because it pisses EVERYONE off to little benefit- are you saying you'd risk war trying to stop a Romulan ship from entering space that isn't even ours? Just to stop them from trading Romulan ale or somesuch? That's insane and will be completely ineffectual anyway- we don't have enough ships, and space is too big.

[x][ADVICE] Seek de-escalation, or at least clarification of the motives of all parties involved, through a powerful third party that the Cardassians will be hesitant to provoke such as the Klingons. Prepare for Cardassian interference in any Caitian-Daiwar war and respond appropriately.
 
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I sometimes figure that Picard would've gone insane with all the shit he's encountered and had to deal with (Borg anyone?) without Troi's help.

It's good to see that Nash is getting a bit of closure.
Picard's kind of high-strung in some ways, so yes.

Deanna also provides the tremendous advantage of being, y'know, literally psychic. Sure, sometimes we make fun of her for spotting things we could figure out on our own without psychic powers, but there's a huge difference between thinking you know what a weird alien lifeform is feeling, versus actually knowing.

It's like, I can deduce the sky is blue, because duh. But then I look out the window and notice the sky is grey, because massive overcast. If I didn't have the "power" of eyesight, I would be entirely ignorant of the presence of those clouds, and if that somehow turned out to be important, I'd just be out of luck. Conversely, if I deduce that the sky is blue, but am worried it might be gray or black or some even weirder color, I don't have to stress about it, I can just take a look!

I mean, she can actually look at a guy over a Skype call and say "I don't sense any deception," and be right. How valuable is that, knowing when someone you're talking to isn't tricking you, even though the situation would otherwise lead you to suspect them?

The combination of her being a counselor and her being an empath really does make her a valuable member of the Enterprise command team.

So that's an improvement of 10br, 5sr, 3pp, 3rp, and the crew over their 300-500 affiliate level income.

Pity we didn't get a research team though.
@OneirosTheWriter, I would really like to get a Betazoid xenopsychology team, and have the Vulcan Science Academy pick up a different specialization. As it stands the Vulcan Science Academy is redundant with Spock. And while we may at some future date lose Spock and need a new xenopsych researcher, I literally can't think of any species in the Federation more qualified to comment on xenopsych than the Betazoids.

Second, it does indeed get a bit disheartening to see some "war hawks" in this thread advocate for hard-line actions, and even going as far as to call our enemies garbage or talking about "putting them down" or otherwise dehumanizing (heh) them.

That's not the Federation or Starfleet's way. Sure, there are disadvantages to always trying diplomacy first and resorting to military action as a last resort, and letting more devious enemies run amok outside the borders, but the Federation is a beacon of peaceful civilization that most others aspire too, industrially and technology advanced enough to provide security and well-being, and they ultimately always respond to a crisis in time.

And staying true to Starfleet's ideals is a worthy goal in and of itself.
This. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm all for rolling up to the Dawiar in a phalanx of Excelsiors and saying "hey, what gives, let's talk this out;" in fact, I suggested it. But the talk of how "perfidious" they are is completely overlooking what makes the Federation different from, and ultimately capable of overcoming, the Klingons, Romulans, and Cardassians. All of whom are better at the whole 'realpolitik imperial' game than we are ever going to be.
 
Because you cannot, as a rule, beam through shields. If shields are down, beaming a bomb onto a ship is more practical, but if their shields are down, and you're within transporter range, why not just torpedo them?
Actually, in a combat scenario, ships do have hulls. Once you deplete their shields, nothing stopping you from beaming a photon torpedo into their warp core, and burn through the rest of that hull in one go.
 
Except that they're a maneuvering target, so setting up a transport to their warp core is difficult because the target is moving in an unpredictable, non-ballistic way. And except that it really isn't hard to set up force fields that jam transporters. If I were running a Starfleet ship I'd have transporter jammers on all the time in battle.
 
Actually, in a combat scenario, ships do have hulls. Once you deplete their shields, nothing stopping you from beaming a photon torpedo into their warp core, and burn through the rest of that hull in one go.
Except that you also need to drop your own shields...

Antimatter itself apparently can't transport without specific modifications to the transporter either.
 
I really dislike AKuz's plan because blockades are generally considered an act of war. And it starts with one.
 
Here is a cropped map with a bit higher resolution (easy because everything is done as a vector graphic).

 
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I really dislike AKuz's plan because blockades are generally considered an act of war. And it starts with one.

There's that, but getting the Klingons means the Dawiar need to agree to having them as mediators, which means opening a dialogue with them - I'm a little fuzzy on how AKuz hopes to achieve that short of Step 3.

That's why it's step 1 of Plan: Speak Softly and Carry a Big Stick.
 
Ahm... Is anyone else noticing that most of our fleet power (Starfleet and Fed. Member) has just turned to face the space dwarfs?

What if the Cardassians are using them as a distraction?

Edit: If the mediation results in the Dwaiar joining the Klingon empire and a Klingon-Cardassian war, I will laugh.

fasquardon
 
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[X][FLEET] Reinforce Amarkia and Andor
Sol, D15: 1 Excelsior [Endurance] (6), 2 Miranda [Lion, Bon Vivant] (4), Starbase 1 (5) = D15
Betazed, D3: 1 Constellation [Selaya] (3) = 3D
Vulcan, D12: 1 Constellation [Sappho] (3), 2 Miranda (4) [T'Kumbra, Calypso], Starbase I (5) = 12D
Andor, D9: 1 Constellation (3) [Docana], 1 Miranda (2) [Eketha], 1 Oberth [Suvek] (1), Starbase I (5) = 11D
Tellar Prime, D9: 1 Constellation (3) [Stalwart], Starbase I (5), Extra Outposts (5) = 13D
Amarkia, D9: 1 Constellation (3) [Vigour], 1 Miranda [Dryad] (2), Oberth [Hawking] (1), Starbase I (5), Extra Outposts (5) = 16D
RBZ, D12: 1 Excelsior (6) [Excelsior], 3 Miranda (6) [Faithful, Svai] = 12D
KBZ, D6: 1 Constellation (3) [Kearsage], 2 Miranda (4), 1 Oberth (1) = 8D
CBZ, D10: 1 Constitution (5) [Cheron], 1 Excelsior (6) [Kumari), 1 Constellation (3) [Challorn], 1 Centaur (2) = 16D
1 Centaur (2) [Yukikaze] = out for refit starting 2308Q2

[X][ADVICE] Information is Our Weapon
Starfleet prefers opening the path to resumption of negotiations, using all reasonable means. However, re-opening negotiations isn't possible until we understand why the Dawiar decided to attack during a parley. Without that understanding, and without preventing further Cardassian meddling, future negotiations are a non-starter and will place any such parties at great risk. Therefore:
- Starfleet would like to support a thorough investigation into the motives behind the attack. Starfleet's xenopsych assets can be made available to work with other Federation assets in understanding the Dawiar motivations. If there are other races with frequent contact with the Dawiar, including the Caitians, requesting their contact reports or analyses would be helpful.
- With the Council's permission, Starfleet is prepared to thoroughly investigate this incident in the field. The Explorer Corps has conducted similar missions in the past. The more ships we have tasked to this, the more angles we can investigate. As examples, look closer at the nature of the Caitians' dispute, look carefully for Cardassian involvement through signals intercept, investigate shipping to the Dawair through scans and long-range detection, take opportunities for groundside investigations should they occur, pass messages through third parties, or even revisit Dawiar itself on a fact-finding mission... if we have one or more ships up to the task. Starfleet believes we need to investigate and prove the degree of Cardassian involvement to our affiliates, prevent it from happening again, and reopen relations with the Dawiar if possible.
- Starfleet is capable of enforcing an arms embargo, but recommends that the Council only consider such a step if it solves more diplomatic problems than it causes.
- If it is necessary to bring in a third party to mediate, we should look into what parties would be acceptable to all sides.
 
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Phase 1 of AKuz's plan centers heavily on obtaining information, and the "containment" phase consists of stopping any outside powers from interfering, ourselves included. And if anyone objects that WE are interfering... that Caitian fathership is going to be in the hospital for six months; if we're lucky the war will be over by the time it comes out of drydock. If not, maybe we can make some kind of arrangement to ensure it is not used against the Dawiar.
 
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