1.6% more... Part of what I liked about the first bid was the great reliability. Making it 150% more likely to have a problem isn't worth the 1 point of defense IMO.


Hmm.. okay here's a very slightly improved design then.



Same stats, reduced shield fudge and nacelle fudge by a single level each. Design regains 0.65% reliability. Making it 97.84% reliable vs 98.89 for the 5 defence version.

I can make a version which is a further .6% more reliable but it requires introducing a third layer of fudge factor in one area to reduce to the weight savings from the frame. Not sure it's worth it for the extra year of research time that would add.
 
I can see why this set of Captain's logs took some extra time. That was a lot of material!

Captain's Log, USS Sarek, Stardate 22337.2 - Captain Straak

After a truly inefficient series of months spent dealing with a wide variety of the most illogical sentients, I am pleased to report that the USS Sarek has returned to mapping unexplored star systems. This is a most satisfactory course of action.

After all, pulsars emit their destructive bursts of energy and radiation with logical predictable regularity. I can say no such thing for Gaeni Tech-Cruisers, the wisdom of whose designs are still a matter of meditation for me.

I like how Straak's personality is already starting to shine through. He might be good at sorting out sentient squabbles, but that's not what he wants to be doing.

Captain's Log, USS Enterprise, Stardate 22337.8

Thanks to Izzidiera's intervention, I have been given access to the High Council of Queens. I believe that I gave a good account of my ship and the Federation. Meeting all these illustrious queens, though... I am worried. I think a big question still looms over how the Queen/Worker scenario works with the Federation's stance on individual freedoms. The workers are, after all, born with the urge to serve their Queens and from what I'm told, being cut off from them for an extended period is extremely upsetting. But this gives us a scenario whereby a great swathe of sentient people are held in willing servitude.

I admit, I'm a little concerned about how it will play out.

And indeed, we never do get any particular resolution on the Queen/Worker issue. Something to worry about if they ever slowly grind their way up to +300 Relationship.


Captain's Log, USS Cheron, Stardate 22338.1

We have arrived at the Indorian colony world of Pridorin IV, a mining colony just on the Federation side and core-ward of their homeworld, responding to a distress call. It seems that a large escort ship has been attempting to intimidate Indorian trade vessels in the area that were headed for Amarkian space. We are first on the scene, but the Kumari and Challorn are responding as well, and should be here within the hour.

Nice to see the Cheron get to do something besides being blown up and finding minerals. I think you mentioned this is no longer Revak and he's moved on to other things?

Now the Indorians are an affiliate and the Cardassians were intimidating vessels going to the Amarki, so this was definitely a "claimed space" interaction. Nice to see Uhura pay off near immediately as well.

As per our rules of engagement, we have closed with the Parok at Red Alert, and they have withdrawn. However, a Jaldun-class destroyer has appeared immediately in their stead.

Okay, I am thinking this right here is where we earned our Militarization point. Instead letting them make their excuses and playing it cool, it out the Cheron closed with them aggressively as per our "don't back down" discussion. @OneirosTheWriter is that about the size of it?

I think "don't back down" in the ROE is going to earn us a lot of problems. I know there was a lot of discussion in the thread about not letting the Cardassians see us as "weak" and that's the same old excuse that always gets trotted out whenever aggressive military action is called for. As though perception is more important than reality.

The Apiata have confronted us with these phony sensor logs that were apparently "kindly" retreived by the CDF Trager, which we had the displeasure of discovering was sitting in orbit. Of course, while we know they are lies, proving them to be is anothing thing entirely. Nonetheless, we have agreed to present our case to the Council of Queens at Dorsata colony. I have put in a call to the Enterprise as well. Although an Excelsior has little to fear from a Jaldun-class destroyer, we did get a sensor reading briefly of something rather larger hiding out in the outskirts of the system, and I'd rather have the backup.

That bit about something larger lurking out there is extremely worrisome. It seems like the Cardassians may have called up their own heavy cruiser but aren't ready to reveal it yet. How powerful are their biggest ships?

I don't think anyone in a Starfleet uniform believes them, but the Apiata are accepting it for now.

[Cardassian Relations with Apiata -25, +10rp]

Wait, do you have a whole separate set of numbers tracking Cardassian relationships with other species? How deep does this rabbit hole go!?

Captain's Log, USS Cheron, Stardate 22339.7

After the arrival of the rest of the Cardassian Border Zone fleet, including Commodore Uhura on the Kumari, the Jaldun harassing the Indorians has bugged out. Not, however, before giving the Challorn a very close fly-by and intensive scan. Captain Mbeki ordered weapons targeting on the ship as it went by and for a moment it seemed that it would break out into combat after all, but the Jaldun continued on and then left the system.

[+25 Relations with Indorians]
[Cardassians -5 Relations with Indorians]
[+1 Militarisation Point]

Ouch. That is the first miltiarization point we've ever gotten in the quest, and it stings. Puts us only two below the Threat Level as well.


First Officer's Log, USS Miracht, Stardate 22340.0

Captain Thuir has been gravely injured. A phaser blast very nearly killed him. If we'd gotten him to sickbay even a minute later...

Despit that, many crew members are dead. I have organised the recovery of wounded and bodies as best I can, and at most recent count, all crew are accounted for. Sydraxian ships harried us as we escaped the system, and our shields collapsed. I have set a maximum warp course to Leas Akaam to begin organising repairs.

We still are unclear as to exactly what local custom we broke. I do not know for sure if we will ever know, but the Sydraxians are apparently nearly as angry we deprived them of the "trophy" of the offending party as with the original offence itself.

[2 Hp damage, 1 Officer, 1 Enlisted Killed, will be towed back to shipyard, -100 Relations with Sydraxians]

Well. Now I know what a truly disastrous series of rolls looks like. I didn't know Relations could go to a negative number! Luckily they weren't a species we were particularly enthusiastic about, but still ouch. And that means we lose two turns worth of Captain's Logs. Thuir did not acquit himself very well here, I must say.


Director Sirvk, 40 Eridani A Shipyards, Stardate 22353.7

Assessment of the USS Vokau has led to further assessments of the remaining Soyuz-class vessels. We estimate that all four will require replacement warp cores within the next five years. The future of these escorts is now the matter of considerable debate, most of it intensely negative. This is the second serious breakdown of a Soyuz-class vessel in recent times, and it is the opinion of many in this department that they are becoming liabilities. There should be another ten years on their current refit cycle, but it remains doubtful the hulls will last to that point.

[Next Shipyard Operations phase will include a formal recommendation by Shipyard Operations and Starfleet Engineering Command to scrap all remaining Soyuz-class escorts]
-

I think we're going to have to say "yes" to that. I knew those Centaurs would have to go. But damn, Starfleet is being squeezed tight. Fewer ships, more territory to cover. We need better ships and more of them.

Front page notes:
@OneirosTheWriter we no longer have any "Unassigned" ships, so you should probably take that Centaur out of there.
 
Here is a design for an escort, which is intended to approach the Renaissance in terms of stats while being more affordable and quicker to build.



Note: There is space for 2.03 spare power. I just forgot to input that.
 
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Just a quick reminder for every one making ship designs, having spare power in the design isn't the only thing needed for refit potential, you also need spare weight, my suggestion is to not worry about refit potential and just make a ship that utilises all the free space and power you have with out changing reliability.

Ultimately refits should come from new tech development and not because we've built slack into the design from the get go having unused potential is pretty much just a waste of design potential in my view. There is no benefit to my mind in having a craft with the capability of having 5's across the board for instance and limiting shields and presence to 4 so that it could be included in a future refit. No point making extra work for us.
 
Okay this is the last version of the Tachyon I'll put up. It's still focused on high defence for an escort this time I've min-maxed the design for highish reliability whilst still pushing capabilities. It does go three tiers deep on some fudge factors which means the design will take three~ years with a skill five team.

@aledeath


98.62% reliability.

C4,S3,H2,L4,P5,D5
Cost 90/65 BLD 2 years.
15 extra techs.

To every one else in the thread if I haven't been put on ignore for dumping ship designs :p what would you prefer to emphasize with ship designs? Reliability? Quick research times? Cheap ships? Maximum capability?
 
To every one else in the thread if I haven't been put on ignore for dumping ship designs :p what would you prefer to emphasize with ship designs? Reliability? Quick research times? Cheap ships? Maximum capability?

Nothing particularly.

Here is what I actually would be interested in seeing, if anyone feels like diving that deeply. Take a copy of the sheet, take a look at our technologies related to shipbuilding, and manually change some of those factors to assume we achieved those technologies. I would be interested in seeing which technologies get us the biggest bang for our buck compared to how long they'd take to research. For instance, there's a whole Starship Construction Tech Tree we haven't even touched What would these techs do for us?

0 / 20 Frame Weight Improvements I (-2% to Frame Weight)
0 / 20 Hull Armour Material Science I (-2% to Hull Weight)
0 / 20 Hull Integrity Grids I (-1% to Hull Power Cost)
 
To every one else in the thread if I haven't been put on ignore for dumping ship designs :p what would you prefer to emphasize with ship designs? Reliability? Quick research times? Cheap ships? Maximum capability?
When it comes to escorts, I think there are 3 basic design philosophies we could follow:

1. Jack of All Trades: Basically a light cruiser in miniature. The Centaur fits with this scheme.

2. Economy combatant: Freeze Combat at 3. This is the highest you can go while keeping Science and Presence at 1 withouth gaining militarization. Now add Shields, Hull and Defense as you feel is appropriate, while trying to make the whole thing as cheap as possible.

3. Murder Incarnate: Choose the greatest tonnage you can while still making it an escort. Maximize tactical value and add science and presence as needed to avoid militarization.


Of course you can also emphasize science or presence, but I'd call that a science or diplomatic ship. As far as I can see it's probably preferable to have cruisers and explorers for that and design our escorts with a focus on combat.
 
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When it comes to escorts, I think there are 3 basic design philosophies we can follow:

1. Jack of All Trades: Basically a light cruiser in miniature. The Centaur fits with this scheme.

This is my favored path. You never know what you're going to get in space, and often combat is preceded by failed science or presence rolls that could have prevented combat altogether. It also means that our Combat increase is matched perfectly by our Science increase with every new ship we build, something that makes the Federation Council very happy. I will be happy to build a lot of Centaur-A ships for that reasons.
 
To every one else in the thread if I haven't been put on ignore for dumping ship designs :p what would you prefer to emphasize with ship designs? Reliability? Quick research times? Cheap ships? Maximum capability?
For Explorers: Definitely Reliability and Capability. We can afford to have them be expensive and take a while to research. In the end they will have to operate on their own for a long time and function as the public image of the federation, so they need to be the very best. High stats probably also help with some rolls.

Light Cruisers: For me, these are basically budget explorers. Prize over capability. Doesn't have to be extremely reliable either, as it's going to work in tandem with other ships and close or within our borders.

Escorts: Considering their size they'll be somewhat cheap anyway, so I think we can afford to prioritise stats here again. This is especially important due to their fragility. An expensive, but tough Escort that survives battles that a weaker one cannot will in due time make up the extra costs through sheer survivability, since it doesn't have to be replaced.

IMHO research time shouldn't be something we put too much consideration on, unless we are in dire need of a new design. Of course, right now we kinda are, so I think we can make some concessions, but in the future we shouldn't do so. A ship is done when it is done. Every new generation should have a significant improvement to the previous one. No jumps like the Renaissance to the Niagara.
 
I am a bit confused about the Renaissance project.

Request Start of Renaissance class project, receiving one-off boost of Research Points and go-ahead for some projects, 30pp
The way I understand this, when we start the project, we get a one-time boost in rp, and then get to research the technology for the Renaissance class until we are satisfied with the design, whereupon we build a prototype.

Is this correct, and if not, can someone set me right?
 
To every one else in the thread if I haven't been put on ignore for dumping ship designs :p what would you prefer to emphasize with ship designs? Reliability? Quick research times? Cheap ships? Maximum capability?
Hull and Shields-we make our ships more survivable while slightly gaming the Combat power gap since a C3H3L4 ship will beat a C3H3L3 ship.
 
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This is my favored path. You never know what you're going to get in space, and often combat is preceded by failed science or presence rolls that could have prevented combat altogether.
I would agree, were we talking about cruisers or explorers. However, Jack of All Trades escorts, in my view, are ultimately going to be pretty shitty at everything. The Centaur is sadly an example of this problem, combining mediocre stats with a rather significant price tag.

Unlike explorers and cruisers, which have the mass budget to be good or at least decent at everything, in my view escorts should never be on the move by themselves. They're the kind of ship we want defending our planets and lending that little bit of extra fighting power to our fleet.

Which means our escorts will always be at home or in the company of a cruiser or explorer. And those will always be the superior choice when it comes to science and presence.


Personally, I favor the Economy Combatant philosphy. This would mean that in peacetime we'd build only modest numbers of them to cover our defense and garrison needs at very little expense, freeing most of our shipbuilding capacity for cruisers and explorers. In wartime, escorts are the type of ship that give us the biggest bang for our buck the fastest, so on those rare occasions we'd spam them.
 
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2306.Q4 - Well, They Try
Starfleet Intelligence Report
2306.Q4


Report of Rear Admiral Nash zh'Rhashaan

Good morning, Admiral.

We have spent most of the last year attempting to intercept and analyse signals on the Caradassian frontier. We have had some successes, though the Cardassians represent a very tight information security unit. Even so, thanks to some modifications to the T'Mir, we have managed to generally identify four regularly in use subspace transmitters, with a few others. Review of penetrating sensor data gathered by the Enterprise has also rewarded a fairly detailed understanding of the Jaldun class, which I have listed below.

End Report

Suspected Force on Romulan Border:
1 Heavy Warbird
3 Birds of Prey
0 D7s

We believe a new cruiser variant is in development now. Details are sketchy for the time being. Beyond that, we are seeing one fewer Bird of Prey on this border. The willingness of the Romulans to allow us to take on more of the Neutral Zone patrol duties could speak to a growing relationship, or to mounting tension between the RSE and KE.

Suspected Force on Klingon Border:
2 K'tinga
6 Klingon Bird of Prey

This has again held steady through the year. We are hearing rumours of a debate as to whether research proposals should go towards a million-ton plus cruiser or explorer, or whether it should go to a next generation Bird of Prey design.

Suspected Force on Cardassian Frontier:

3 Jaldun-class destroyers operating within the frontier unit on a regular basis.
1 Science Escort is also operating within the frontier.
At least two larger ships have been identified from long range sensors.

Forces that lie behind that are difficult to ascertain. At least six other transmitters operate from time to time within the zone, and we know of at least four Jaldun-class destroyers that make at least temporary appearances.

Estimates of Cardassian Fleet Units

Believed to rely on a mainstay of Jaldun-class destroyers. In Starfleet parlance, the Jaldun is a general purpose cruiser.

Jaldun-class [405m, 1.2mt]
C4 S3 H4 L4 P3 D4, Crew [3/4/3]

We believe there are at least eight, and possibly as many as twenty. With as little as we know of the extent of Cardassian borders, and what other force commitments they have, it is very difficult to say for sure. We are still attempting to monitor communications as well as pick the brains of our allies as to full Cardassian Union fleet strength.

We know that there is at least one larger version of the Jaldun that we believe is more heavily combat focused. There was also a sensor ghost picked up by the Courageous that we believe was a separate, even larger design, some manner of battleship-like design. They did appear very unwilling to risk it, so it may not be a ship they have many of.

We have also confirmation of at least one variety of small science escort. At this point, we have not encountered other types.

Opinion on Romulan Diplomatic Posture

There are at least some growing indicators that the Romulan Star Empire is starting to consider if not a normalisation of relations with the Federation, then at least a thawing.

We strongly advise caution nonetheless. It should not be forgotten that these are still Romulans, and their species pride and xenophobia will continue to hamper relations, and may in fact never be something they grow out of. Further, it is an open question as to whether these moves are due to the success of Federation diplomatic feelers, or due to a desire to protect their western flank as their border with the Klingons heats up.

Opinion on Klingon Diplomatic Posture

Anti-Romulan sentiment continues to fester. In many ways, this is of greater concern to our analysts on the Klingon Desk than the outright violent rhetoric, because it speaks to a phenomenon growing legs of its own.

Opinion on Cardassian Diplomatic Posture

It is beyond question that we are in a struggle with the Cardassians for influence and resources within the frontier zone between our major powers. The Cardassians are attempting to undermine the confidence in the Federation within our affiliates, and to drag the unaligned to their side. This is clearly also an ends justify the means approach being taken. The Federation Council is still strongly advocating against allowing this to flare into open war. The state of the fleet is not ready for this. We believe we would be able to hold our home sectors with the aid of the member fleets, but with the ageing Soyuz at the point of decommission, the Centaur replacements not ready yet, and replacement for the Constellation anything up to a decade away, we could suffer grievous losses trying to hold the front line.

The unknown nature of the Cardassian fleet strength also should give pause.

Nonetheless, failure to adequately compete with the Cardassians will entail conceding worlds full of sentient people to the graces of a regime that from all indications is brutal and uncompromising.



Opinion on Sydraxite Heirarchy Incident

With all due concession to the Courts-Martial and the Starfleet JAG Corps, our initial investigation with the crew of the USS Miracht has led us to cast doubt as to whether Captain Thuir had any chance to prevent this calamity. Unfortunately, the entire party at the centre of the matter all perished, including Lieutenant Sharon sh'Sarhraan, Ensign Viera Kendle, and six other ranks. Reviews of the sensor log revealed Cardassian subspace traffic from the planet immediately before and after the incident.

It is the opinion of Starfleet Intelligence that the Cardassians got one over us that day. Unfortunately away from home court it becomes increasingly difficult to mount defensive counter-intelligence operations.

Over the next year we will assess the potential for the Sydraxites to become affiliates of the Cardassians or even to let this move to full scale war.
 
Well, after the Sydraxites, the Cardassians might move towards the other non-affiliates on our western border, the Gretarians and Yirillians. Possibly the Dawiar as well.

That would place them right next to two or three of our founding sectors. Anyone think a diplopush towards them is a good idea for next year?
 
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Just as a heads up for the next Research turn - I am planning to start dividing a few of the research areas up into smaller chunks.

For one thing, I think it will add a bit more strategy in terms of assigning teams, rather than simply mapping category with team and calling it quits. Will also provide a reason to have more than one of a research type.

This also let's you start fine tuning what you want from your ships and kit out.

So Shields might become Nav Deflectors and Deflector Shields, Warp Tech can split between Cores and Propulsion, Ship Design can start focusing on Offensive/Defensive/Support areas.
 
Hmmm, so should we start doing a diplomatic push with the Syndraxians every year to slowly recover their opinion with us?

It would be great if we could eventually find proof that the Cardassians were behind it, but the chances are really unlikely.
 
What do fudge factors do?

I'm inclined to design a maximum Science/Engine (With maybe 2 or 3 shields and hull) with maximum fudge factors for them. Where do I get the link to the designer, btw?
 
@OneirosTheWriter

You put the latest thread mark almost at the start of the index any chance you could move it to the bottom.

What do fudge factors do?

I'm inclined to design a maximum Science/Engine (With maybe 2 or 3 shields and hull) with maximum fudge factors for them. Where do I get the link to the designer, btw?

Fudge factors either reduce power requirements for capabilities or reduce weight this comes at the expense of requiring more research and making ships less reliable.
 
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Here is my take on an Economy Combatant.



The leftover points were used for a few levels in Presence. As long as it is equal to or below the total scale level of the ship, Presence is a cheap stat to add.
 
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Hmmm, so should we start doing a diplomatic push with the Syndraxians every year to slowly recover their opinion with us?

It would be great if we could eventually find proof that the Cardassians were behind it, but the chances are really unlikely.

Eh, I personally don't think that this would be worth the effort and that we are better off concentrating our efforts on other possible members/affiliates. It is not like they are anything special (as far as I can see at least). I would rather get Betazoid, Orion and maybe the Gaeni to our level (and if we can afford it the Kadeshi (mostly from a RP perspective) since they would provide I think quite significant benefits and shouldn't have any real problems integrating in the Federation (which is why I would actually suggest not pushing the Apiata forward - fasttracking them could backfire considering the difference between them and most other races). I think we can afford to "lose" some potential members if it means we can concentrate on the more "worthwhile" ones.
 
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Eh, I personally don't think that this would be worth the effort and that we are better off concentrating our efforts on other possible members/affiliates. It is not like they are anything special (as far as I can see at least). I would rather get Betazoid, Orion and maybe the Gaeni to our level (and if we can afford it the Kadeshi (mostly from a RP perspective) since they would provide I think quite significant benefits and shouldn't have any real problems integrating in the Federation (which is why I would actually suggest not pushing the Apiata forward - fasttracking them could backfire considering the difference between them and most other races). I think we can afford to "loose" some potential members if it means we can concentrate on the more "worthwhile" ones.

The Sydraxian Hierarchy are big, is the thing. They have a colony world with half a billion citizens. That's equal to the entire population of Kadesh before the phage. They probably represent an asset at least equal to the Amarki in terms of resources and fleet strength. Them allying with the Cardassians would be a major blow to our efforts in the border zone. Plus, you know the Cardassians would be more ruthless about exploiting and utilizing their resources than us. I'd like to get them up to the point where they'll stay neutral, if nothing else.
 
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Their Jaldun class seems pretty straightforward:
Significant tech savings seem unlikely or it would be smaller/more powerful at this size.

Looks like it would cost nearly as much as a Constellation refit in resources, about as much as a Constitution refit (depending on your weighting of br vs sr). Or almost exactly half as much as an Excelsior.
 
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