It's one of the easiest ways to improve the widest number of ships, and gain Defense quickly aside from building more starbases/outposts with pp.

We have more Mirandas, but their refit doesn't increase Defense.

But we would meet the defence requirement regardless won't we?

It seems highly unlikely to me that we wont be getting 24 points of defence from ship building by 2311 which is five years. Throw in a couple of outpost builds on top of that and we'll easily blow past that requirement.
 
Last edited:
From a narrative perspective I'm not sure why Starfleet would be spending that much of its capital on diplomatic pushes. Anyone want to explain that one to me?

Anyway, I am not in favor of five pushes. I'd like to build an outpost, do a refit, and... well, we'll see what's on offer.

Because Starfleet/the Federation is a very xenophilic organisation and the development peaceful cooperation between alien races has been and will always be one of its key founding principles as well as a major goal. Getting to know new people and peacefully cooperate with them is what Starfleet is all about, at least from my rather limited experience. All that fleet and base building is generally viewed as an unfortunate necessity (as is evidenced by the fact that Starfleet is not a "real" military)

A more power-centric argument would be that a) the addition of new races would be a massive boon to Starfleet/Federation capabilities (I mean we would have to spend an awful lot of resources to for example match the Amarki fleet (especially once upgraded) and its industrial capabilities.) b) prevents our rivals from co-opting those races and thus strengthening their power while limiting the Federation.
 
Last edited:
But we would meet the defence requirement regardless won't we?

It seems highly unlikely to me that we wont be getting 24 points of defence from ship building by 2311 which is five years. Throw in a couple of outpost builds on top of that and we'll easily blow past that requirement.
I believe that there was mention of Defense requirements for systems increasing sometime in the near future. Doing the refit gives us even more of a buffer for whenever that increase happens while we work on the Renaissance.
 
It's one of the easiest ways to improve the widest number of ships, and gain Defense quickly aside from building more starbases/outposts with pp.

We have more Mirandas, but their refit doesn't increase Defense.

Getting the Constellation Refit is a critical goal, and there's not enough PP for 5 pushes, outposts, and that.

Centaur refit does more for us in terms of defense and science. 8 work years to refit constellations gives us +8D and +8S, 4 centaurs also take 8 years and give 12D and 12S. And in terms of resources and crew it will be two years before either one can be constructed as refits are 6 turn projects.
 
Assuming no surprises:

[][COUNCIL] Plan Emphasize Defense
-[X] Request expansion of Outposts in the Tellar Sector, 10pp (4 turns, +5 Defence in Tellar, more colonies with outposts if state of emergency ensues)
-[X] Request Refit Program for Constellation class [+1 C,S,D, for 20br, 10sr, 1 Year (4 turns)], 6 turns 45pp
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Caitians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Rigellians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Betazoids [replace with Amarki if roll < 17]

[][COUNCIL] Plan Emphasize Growth
-[X] Request expansion of Outposts in the Tellar Sector, 10pp (4 turns, +5 Defence in Tellar, more colonies with outposts if state of emergency ensues)
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Caitians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Rigellians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Betazoids
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Gaeni
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Caldoians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Orion Union
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Amarki
-[X] Request Mining Colony at Pygmalion 337 IV-3, 8pp (4 turns, gain +20 br / year)

[][COUNCIL] Plan Balance
-[X] Request Refit Program for Constellation class [+1 C,S,D, for 20br, 10sr, 1 Year (4 turns)], 6 turns 45pp
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Caitians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Rigellians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Betazoids
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Caldoians [replace with Armaki if roll < 17]
 
Centaur refit does more for us in terms of defense and science. 8 work years to refit constellations gives us +8D and +8S, 4 centaurs also take 8 years and give 12D and 12S. And in terms of resources and crew it will be two years before either one can be constructed as refits are 6 turn projects.
Hmmm, excellent point.
 
Assuming no surprises:

[][COUNCIL] Plan Emphasize Defense
-[X] Request expansion of Outposts in the Tellar Sector, 10pp (4 turns, +5 Defence in Tellar, more colonies with outposts if state of emergency ensues)
-[X] Request Refit Program for Constellation class [+1 C,S,D, for 20br, 10sr, 1 Year (4 turns)], 6 turns 45pp
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Caitians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Rigellians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Betazoids [replace with Amarki if roll < 17]

[][COUNCIL] Plan Emphasize Growth
-[X] Request expansion of Outposts in the Tellar Sector, 10pp (4 turns, +5 Defence in Tellar, more colonies with outposts if state of emergency ensues)
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Caitians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Rigellians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Betazoids
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Gaeni
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Caldoians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Orion Union
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Amarki
-[X] Request Mining Colony at Pygmalion 337 IV-3, 8pp (4 turns, gain +20 br / year)

[][COUNCIL] Plan Balance
-[X] Request Refit Program for Constellation class [+1 C,S,D, for 20br, 10sr, 1 Year (4 turns)], 6 turns 45pp
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Caitians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Rigellians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Betazoids
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Caldoians [replace with Armaki if roll < 17]

Centaur is a better refit, we can build 4 refit centaurs and get 4 more defense and science then refitting the 8 constellations, plus we would have two centaurs to refit for another 2 defense and 2 science. Also as long as we only build 1 excelsior a turn we would need aboutique 100 more Sr over the next two years beyond annual income to be able to afford it.

Finally centaurs have a higher presence by 1 as well so make better diploma ships than the constellation. And we are not likely to replace them and will produce more, unlike the constellation so we save spending our limited pp on a refit that will be phased out

Edit: we could also build 3 centaurs and refit 2 for the same 8 work years and save enough on Sr costs to only need a small increase to meet the budget. That would still boost science and defense by 11, 3 more than the constellation refit
 
Last edited:
2306.Q2 - The Snakepit
2306.Q2

[The Federation Council is pleased that you have managed to achieve your required Science Stat level in half the allotted time - as a result you have earned 50 Political Will]


It is a peculiar day that find you making your way into the Council Chambers. This is becoming old hat to you, of course, but having Rear Admiral Sulu instead of Chen alongside you is a new development. When you get into the Council room, Councillor Stesk leads a faction of Council members into putting the blowtorch to you for not making more peaceful overtures to Cardassia. You are at pains to remind him that not every species will necessarily be peaceful. Then Councillor Hurgorc of a Tellarite majority colony world leads another faction to put the blowtorch to you for not making a more forceful response to Cardassian provocations. You are at pains to remind him that just because a species is hostile is no reason to spark a war.

Still, all told, things go smoothly. The Council is well pleased by the launch of a fourth Oberth-class ship, the fourth Five Year Mission, and the overall science progress Starfleet is making. The fleet expansion is occurring in line with most expectations, though one retired Starfleet Admiral gives you another bollocking for the perceived shortfall in cruisers and escorts. The growing understanding of the capacity of the Cardassian Jaldun cruiser-weight starship is starting to prompt considerable unease among the Council.

[ ][COUNCIL] Submit a plan to the Council
(You may select any number of options, as long as you can pay the Political Will cost. You currently have one-hundred and forty (140) Political Will to spend.

======================================

Federation Council Options for 2306.Q2
  • NEW Request Mining Colony at Galus V, 8pp (4 turns, gain +15 br / year)
  • Request Mining Colony at Pygmalion 337 IV-3, 8pp (4 turns, gain +20 br / year)
  • Request expansion of San Francisco Fleet Yards, 15pp (4 turns, gain new 1m t berth) [Can take multiple times]
  • Request expansion of 40 Eridani A Shipyards, 20pp (4 turns, gain new 1m t berth) [Can take multiple times]
  • Request expansion of Ana Font Shipyard, 10pp (4 turns, gain 1 new 1m t berth) [Can take multiple times]
  • Request Excelsior berth at a shipyard, 40pp (6 turns, gain new 3m t berth)
  • Request new Starbase I [Write in Sector] 20pp for home sectors or RBZ, 30pp for KBZ
  • Request expansion of Outposts in the Tellar Sector, 10pp (4 turns, +5 Defence in Tellar, more colonies with outposts if state of emergency ensues)
  • Reduce Militarisation Level 75pp [Increased due to low level]
  • Increase Threat Level 40pp [Increased due to peaceful outlook]
  • Request Ongoing Budget increase 35pp (Roll for success)
  • Request Allocation for an Excelsior's resources, one-off-infusion of an Excelsior's cost, 20pp
  • Request Academy Expansion, 30pp (Gain +.5 Officers/Enlisted/Techs throughput)
  • Request Science Academy Expansion, 20pp (Gain +1 Techs throughput)
  • Request Temporary Explorer Corps Recruitment Drive, 20pp, (Gain 2 Officer, 2 Enlisted, 2 Techs, PLUS Convert 2 Officer, 2 Enlisted, 2 Techs from normal service)
  • Request Start of Ambassador class project, receiving one-off boost of Research Points and go-ahead for some projects, 50pp
  • Request Start of Renaissance class project, receiving one-off boost of Research Points and go-ahead for some projects, 30pp
  • Request Start of Custom Explorer project, receiving one-off boost of Research Points and go-ahead for some projects, 60pp
  • Request Start of Custom Cruiser project, receiving one-off boost of Research Points and go-ahead for some projects, 35pp
  • Request Start of Custom Escort project, receiving one-off boost of Research Points and go-ahead for some projects, 55pp
  • Request Refit Program for Miranda class [+1 S,H,L for 20br, 10sr, 1 Year (4 turns)], 6 turns, 45pp (NB: new unit cost for the Miranda will be 60/45)
  • Request Refit Program for Constellation class [+1 C,S,D, for 20br, 10sr, 1 Year (4 turns)], 6 turns 40pp (NB: new unit cost for Constellation will be 70/45)
  • Request Refit Program for Centaur class [+1 S,L,P,D for 15br, 15sr, 1 Year (4 turns)], 6 turns 45pp (NB: new unit cost for the Centaur will be 80/70)
  • NEW Request Refit Program for Constitution class [Constitution-class acquires stat block listed below], 8 turns, 50pp
  • Request new Tech Team to be added to your Ship Design Bureau, 30pp
  • Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) [Can be taken multiple times]
  • NEW Expand Explorer Corps Recruitment drives to affiliates, 25pp (One affiliate starts generating 0.3 of Explorer Corps crew, arrangement depends on species) [Once per affiliate]
  • Arrange to have an Old Guard Admiral convinced it is time to retire, 20pp
  • NEW Request approval to make the Ship Design Bureau a Vice Admiral billet, 15pp (Ship Design Bureau will be commanded by a Vice Admiral instead of a Rear Admiral)
  • NEW Request approval to formally add a Cardassian Border Zone to the Key Sector list, 15pp (Adds a new Border Zone, Cardassian events will take place there instead of potentially in home sectors)

Ship Design Bureau - Constitution Light Cruiser Redesign proposal

Constitution Refit B [Cruiser] 2240-2300 (2306 Refit) [289m, 1m t]
C5 S3 H3 L4 P3 D5
Cost [100br, 80sr, 3 years], Crew [O-3, E-4, T-4]

It isn't quite as ideal as the planned Renaissance-class cruisers, but we have managed to re-engineer it to require few exotic materials to construct and maintain, automate more systems, and allow it to be built in a faster time frame. In order to accommodate these changes, some of the facilities that made the ship such a useful Explorer had to become limited, and the rapid construction time results in a somewhat weaker hull. Although workable as a stop-gap, it will become obsolete in 2330, and there isn't really anything further that can be done to help it past that point.

====

Federation Grading:
Current Minimum Science = 50 [Now 87]
Current Maximum Combat = 230 [Now 113]

(Soft cap, will gain +1 Militarisation per 10 pts over - will increase with Threat Level by 10)

Minimum Concurrent 5 Year Missions = 3
Current Militarisation Level = 2
Current Federation Threat Level = 5

Council Objectives:
85 Science by 2311 (Currently 87)
2 New Oberths by 2311

120 Defence by 2312 (Currently 96)

Starfleet Ambitions:
Operate no fewer than 5 concurrent Five Year Missions by 2311.

Current Federation Full Members:
Humans
Vulcans
Andorians
Tellarites

Current Federation Affiliates:
Betazoids 389/500 - 1 = 388/500
Rigellians 223/500 + 16 = 239/500
Caitians 244/500 + 18 = 262/500
Amarki 451/500 + 22 = 473/500
Risa 187/500 + 26 = 213/500
Caldonians 190/500 + 13 = 203/500
Gaeni 171/500 + 21 = 192/500
Orions 161/500 + 13 = 174/500
Indorions 130/500 + 13 = 143/500

Currently Known Others Possible Members:
Sydraxians 60/100
Yrillians 45/100
Dawiar 25/100
Kadeshi 35/100
Sotaw 35/100
Gretarians 25/100

Major Powers
Romulans - Trending Positive
Klingons - At Peace
Cardassians - No Formal Treaty (Starfleet Captains advised combat is a possibility in any encounter)
 
Last edited:
Is it possible to have a revised refit? I know that refits are not exactly in our control, except by omake bonuses, but is it possible that as we continue ship design research, we'll get a chance of a new refit design like 5 years later if we reject the current refit design?

For example, right now the Constellation refit is considered mediocre, and the only pro of it (+defense) can be accomplished by other means. Suppose 5 years later in 2311.Q2, the behind-the-scenes ship refit design bureau (aka OneirosTheWriter) allows a new refit design for the Constellation using latest research. What's the best possible Constellation we could get then?

edit:
[The Federation Council is pleased that you have managed to achieve your required Science Stat level in half the allotted time - as a result you have earned 50 Political Will]
:cool:

Betazoids 389/500 - 1 = 388/500

:o
 
Last edited:
120 Defence by 2312 (Currently 113)

We have seven years to increase defence by 7 points..

There is absolutely no need to bother with refits for now.


Mea Culpa, should be 96, I read the wrong column on my spreadsheet.

Still don't think we need to carry out a refit though. 24 points -5 needed from the outpost expansion in my plan and we'll see the last 19 points needed come trivially via new ship building.
 
Last edited:
[][COUNCIL] Plan Emphasize Growth MK II
-[X] Request expansion of Outposts in the Tellar Sector, 10pp (4 turns, +5 Defence in Tellar, more colonies with outposts if state of emergency ensues)
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Caitians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Rigellians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Betazoids
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Gaeni
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Caldoians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Orion Union
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Amarki
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Sydraxians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Kadeshi
-[X] Request Mining Colony at Pygmalion 337 IV-3, 8pp (4 turns, gain +20 br / year)
-[X] Request approval to formally add a Cardassian Border Zone to the Key Sector list, 15pp (Adds a new Border Zone, Cardassian events will take place there instead of potentially in home sectors)
122 PP

Key modifcations add two more diplomatic pushes to non affiliates and create the Cardassian border zone.
 
Now that we have the PP to spare we should probably transfer officers to the Exploration corps so we can crew the ship under construction at Ana Font in '08.
 
Constitution 2240-2300 (2270 Refit) [289m, 1m t]
C5 S4 H4 L4 P5 D5

Constitution Refit B [Cruiser] 2240-2300 (2306 Refit) [289m, 1m t]
C5 S3 H3 L4 P3 D5

Isn't that a straight downgrade?

Now that we have the PP to spare we should probably transfer officers to the Exploration corps so we can crew the ship under construction at Ana Font in '08.

is that finishing this year? Otherwise we should hold off. Diplomatic pushes have the best opportunity costs the earlier you do it. Having crew sitting around doing nothing until a ship finishes the next year makes it a bad choice (assuming that is what happens)
 
Last edited:
[:V] Request Start of Custom Explorer project, receiving one-off boost of Research Points and go-ahead for some projects, 60pp

[x][COUNCIL] Plan Emphasize Growth MK II
-[X] Request expansion of Outposts in the Tellar Sector, 10pp (4 turns, +5 Defence in Tellar, more colonies with outposts if state of emergency ensues)
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Caitians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Rigellians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Betazoids
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Gaeni
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Caldoians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Orion Union
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Amarki
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Sydraxians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Kadeshi
-[X] Request Mining Colony at Pygmalion 337 IV-3, 8pp (4 turns, gain +20 br / year)
-[X] Request approval to formally add a Cardassian Border Zone to the Key Sector list, 15pp (Adds a new Border Zone, Cardassian events will take place there instead of potentially in home sectors)
122 PP
 
I think a centaur refit, outpost construction, cardassians border zone would be good that leaves 61 left, so either the academy expansion with 3 diplo pushes or maybe try for the budget increase. Or retire one of the old guard
 
Back
Top