To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

[fasquardon]

Lower crew requirements, better combat to science ratio, quicker build time, more flexible deployments by having more hulls so for example if we need 1 or 2 more defense for a garrison requirement we can send a defense 3 ship instead of defense 5. Also for the combined fleet doctrine we need each class if we go that route at some point. Crew I think is the biggest with O-3, E-5 and T-3 vs O-1, E-2, T-2 for Renaissance vs Centaur, so we would want both.

Click to shrink...

Do we have the resources and shipyard berths to complete the Centaur roll-out in 5 years though?

And will we have enough resources to build all 10ish Centaurs we'd need? That's alot of br and sr.

I'd rather not derail the Excelsior roll-out because we're burning most of our resources on escorts.

Refitting is HIGHLY resource efficient. We do not have the crew or resources or shipyards to constantly keep our fleet upgraded to the newest classes. So we use some shipyard capacity to bring older models up to spec for a pittance compared to replacing them.

Click to shrink...

Have we been told how many times the Centaur and Constellation can be refitted?

I have to admit I'll laugh myself silly if the Orions end up joining the Federation in this timeline.

Click to shrink...

I thought the Orions joined the Federation in canon too?

Utopia Planetia yards come online 1 quarter after the Refit becomes available to use, so I think we'll have enough yards to make do. We can always use a spare Large Yard if we want to as well.

Click to shrink...

Well, in that case, I think I might change my vote to Constellations. It also frees another 10pp for another focused diplomacy.

[X] Plan Constellations and more diplomacy
-[X] Request approval to formally add a Cardassian Border Zone to the Key Sector list, 15pp (Adds a new Border Zone, Cardassian events will take place there instead of potentially in home sectors)
-[X] Request Refit Program for Constellation class [+1 C,S,D, for 20br, 10sr, 1 Year (4 turns)], 6 turns 40pp (NB: new unit cost for Constellation will be 70/45)
-[X] NEW Request expansion of Outposts in the Tellar Sector, 10pp (4 turns, +5 Defence in Tellar, more colonies with outposts if state of emergency ensues)
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Rigellians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Betazoids
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Caldonians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Amarki
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Caitians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Gaeni
-[X] Request approval to make the Ship Design Bureau a Vice Admiral billet, 15pp (Ship Design Bureau will be commanded by a Vice Admiral instead of a Rear Admiral)

fasquardon

 

[pheonix89]

Another reason that refits are going to be important is that Excelsiors at least are hilariously upgradable. It's canon that the USS Lakota, an Excelsior with late DS9 era refits, was a serious threat to the Defiant. Not a stock Defiant, the USS Benjamin Sisko's Pimp Hand. IE: A Defiant with Elite if not Elite+ Crew and multiple named crew member bonuses. Even assuming the Lakota had Veteran Crew and a relevant captain bonus that's one hell of an upgrade.

 

[tryrar]

I actually plan on doing Constellation refit next year if the pp allows, because to me the question is:

 

[UbeOne]

The Defiant is a pocket warship while the Excelsior is a full-sized explorer.

They're of two different classes, made for two different purposes.

 

[Glassware]

[X] tryrar

Seems reasonable to me.

 

[Briefvoice]

Then Councillor Hurgorc of a Tellarite majority colony world leads another faction to put the blowtorch to you for not making a more forceful response to Cardassian provocations. You are at pains to remind him that just because a species is hostile is no reason to spark a war.

(cut)

Current Federation Affiliates:
Betazoids 389/500 - 1 = 388/500

Click to shrink...

My goodness, what happened there? Omake time!

Tellarite and Betazoid Relations

Councillor Hurgorc huffed a little as he entered the station's antechamber and saw the Betazoid ambassador, Nikael Dalera. As usual, the man's colorful clothing was outshone by the enormous flower bloom pinned on one lapel. Not that he paid much attention to the fashions of other species, but Hurgorc swore that it made him-

"I assure you, any allergic reactions are purely psychosomatic. I grow them all, but I also cheat and spray them with a seal that preserves and prevents pollen escape. A great shame of mine, but diplomatic duties make cheaters of us all," said Dalera without prompting.

"I-" started Hugorc.

"And no, you're not allergic to the preservative. If only we were on Betazed I could direct you to a professional skilled in eliminating psychosomatic conditions, but alas we are instead on a relay station in Sol system space where you are unlikely to find such easy expertise," interrupted Dalera.

Hugorc concentrated on controlling his irritation and not thinking of anything at all while they were escorted to the conference room. As a Federation Councillor, it was easy enough to arrange usage of this station to contact his home colony, but it always annoyed him that it was necessary. Most of the other Councillors could call home from the comfort of their office, but the nebula around his world necessitated this powerful subspace transmitter to punch through if he wanted real time audio-visual communications. Worse, the transmitter created its own distortions making it impossible to simultaneously relay to his office on Earth. So he had to make this trip regularly.

If only Starfleet would build those damn outposts, he could have real time communication at will. Not that this was the reason he wanted them. The Cardassians were a real threat. But well, it would be a nice bonus.

"A pity we haven't been able to formalize diplomatic relations with the Cardassians," said Dalera as they sat down.

Hugorc shot him a sharp look, unsure if Dalera had said that in response to his thoughts or merely because it was on everyone's minds at the moment.

"Little of both," said Dalera with a smile.

Hugorc decided to speak as he thought, since evidently it was going to come through either way. "As a diplomat, why don't you wait until you're spoken to before responding? You know must know how it grates."

Dalera gave it a moment's consideration. "I do, and I suppose I could restrain myself. However, would that be wise? This is how my people are and how we will remain. Absolute honesty and responsiveness to thoughts as well as words are a cornerstone of our culture. We must learn if Federation members can tolerate that, because it will not change. Might as well ask the Vulcans to smile or humans to depend less on subconscious thought or your lot to engage in less pointless arguments."

Hugorc resisted the urge to argue and instead determined to get to the topic at hand. "Yes... my lot and our 'pointless arguments' are why we're here today, aren't they?" He tapped a panel and a screen appeared with writing and images. "My home colony of Plestik V. Due to our unique location in the nebula, we draw a lot of researchers and we've gotten used to integrating members of other species, primarily humans and vulcans. That's why we agreed to serve as a test site for integrating a settlement of Betazoids."

"My people have few off-world settlements, which is a source of frustration to some. Being able to settle in existing colonies is seen as one of the major benefits of joining the Federation," said Dalera.

"Which presents something of a problem, given that your settlers and the people of the city of Rough Landing seem to be a short way from brawling in the streets," replied Hugorc dryly.

Using the longer of his three fingers, Hugorc dexterously activated the communications console. Two individuals appeared on the screen facing them.

A short Tellarite woman introduced herself as Ghemi bim Clullers , Mayor of Rough Landings. A young Betazoid man introduced himself as Davos Krakosis, Son of the Second House of Wine Dark Sea and Caster of the Golden Net.... which apparently meant he was a leader among the Betazoid settlers.

"An unnecessarily long title," growled Clullers immediately after the man finished his introduction.

"You don't actually think so; in fact you think it's rather evocative but you're pretending to find it long in order to have something aggressive to say," replied Krakosis.

"Oh, delightful," murmured Dalera in a way that said he didn't find it very delightful at all.

Hugorc didn't bother murmuring. "This is terrible."

Two hours of discussion later, Hugorc thought he had a handle on the root of the problem.

He and Dalera put the other two on hold so that they could talk.

"Betazoids ruin fun. They are anti-fun," growled Hugorc. He would have phrased that more diplomatically being a professional politician, but there was obviously little point.

"We are honest."

"Vulcans are honest, and they raise their eyebrows. Humans are exhausted, and they shrug and walk away. We can deal with that. You lot interfere. You try to stop arguments and it's making my people miserable!" He was about to continue, when he realized with a shock that there were tears in Dalera's eyes. "I- are you quite all right, Ambassador?"

"Honesty includes honestly admitting mistakes, and I am sorry to say that I believe I have... insufficiently prepared my people. I had not sufficiently understood the role of Tellarite arguments in maintaining peace, because you do not understand it yourselves- That's rude, I'm sure your sociologists do, but your average Tellarite does not, and if they do not I cannot read it in their mind."

Dalera continued. "When we see conflict arising because of a mismatch between what one is thinking and one is saying, our society tells us to intervene and correct the misunderstanding. Tellarite arguments are not about the truth, however. They are entertainment... and therapy... and occasionally a means of saying things in order to understand that one does not believe them."

Hugorc crossed his arms. "I am glad you see the problem, but is there a solution? Can our peoples live together?"

"I believe so, but it will require some additional effort, education, and training. Betazoids must learn to view you through more your own psychology and less through our own. Perhaps it was arrogant of me to declare that 'we will not change'...."

The breath exploded from Dalera's lungs as Councillor Hugorc suddenly slapped him on the back. "I was an engineer before I was a politician, and let me tell you something! Nothing works right the first time! This is-"

"This is why we do tests," finished Ambassador Dalera.

 

[Briefvoice]

[X] tryrar

Seems reasonable to me.

Click to shrink...

Could you vote for an actual plan name rather than a poster's name? That extra two seconds of effort makes vote counting much easier.

 

[Gingganz]

The one thing I really disagree with is the diplomatic push on the Amarki. They are at 473/500 and will join in 2 years anyway, given average rolls.

 

[TheThinker]

Do we have the resources and shipyard berths to complete the Centaur roll-out in 5 years though?

And will we have enough resources to build all 10ish Centaurs we'd need? That's alot of br and sr.

I'd rather not derail the Excelsior roll-out because we're burning most of our resources on escorts.



Have we been told how many times the Centaur and Constellation can be refitted?



I thought the Orions joined the Federation in canon too?



Well, in that case, I think I might change my vote to Constellations. It also frees another 10pp for another focused diplomacy.

[X] Plan Constellations and more diplomacy
-[X] Request approval to formally add a Cardassian Border Zone to the Key Sector list, 15pp (Adds a new Border Zone, Cardassian events will take place there instead of potentially in home sectors)
-[X] Request Refit Program for Constellation class [+1 C,S,D, for 20br, 10sr, 1 Year (4 turns)], 6 turns 40pp (NB: new unit cost for Constellation will be 70/45)
-[X] NEW Request expansion of Outposts in the Tellar Sector, 10pp (4 turns, +5 Defence in Tellar, more colonies with outposts if state of emergency ensues)
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Rigellians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Betazoids
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Caldonians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Amarki
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Caitians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Gaeni
-[X] Request approval to make the Ship Design Bureau a Vice Admiral billet, 15pp (Ship Design Bureau will be commanded by a Vice Admiral instead of a Rear Admiral)

fasquardon

Click to shrink...

I should really write a omake about the Mass Diplomacy going on here, because the logistics behind the diplomatic mobilizations sounds pretty interesting. We're diplomancing 6 different civilization, which is quite a lot when you think about it.

 

[tryrar]

actually, glassware's vote is tallying properly, so it's not an issue (which both makes sense in a way and is actually odd)

 

[pheonix89]

Do we have the resources and shipyard berths to complete the Centaur roll-out in 5 years though?

And will we have enough resources to build all 10ish Centaurs we'd need? That's alot of br and sr.

I'd rather not derail the Excelsior roll-out because we're burning most of our resources on escorts.

Click to shrink...

Refits of existing ships are exceptionally cheap, and we have huge numbers of berths we can't use on Excelsiors. Plus excelsiors are pretty crew-heavy.

Have we been told how many times the Centaur and Constellation can be refitted?

Click to shrink...

No. But rolling replacement is a thing. We'll be phasing out the Centaur and Constellation Refits later, once we're actually near combat cap.

The Defiant is a pocket warship while the Excelsior is a full-sized explorer.

They're of two different classes, made for two different purposes.

Click to shrink...

I know. But the Defiant-class as statted by the QM is an absolute monster - 10 Combat, 6 shields, 3 hull on a tiny chassis with hard-floored crew use. And that was Siskos defiant - they somehow managed to refit the Lakota to the point it was credible threat to a ship that would swat a stock Ambassador like a fly and could probably take a stock Galaxy.

Edit: The point is that refits can keep Explorers viable as first-rate ships for at least two generations, given that the Lakota was a real threat to a ship that casually curbstomps lone peer capital ships.

The one thing I really disagree with is the diplomatic push on the Amarki. They are at 473/500 and will join in 2 years anyway, given average rolls.

Click to shrink...

The reason for the Amarki push is that they are so close. Getting them in one year is a full year of full membership gains from them, probably gets us some access to their shipyard, probably gets us tech bonuses and may get us access to their fleet designs.

I'll admit, I personally think it would be really cool to build a custom next-gen LC with some Amarki design elements, specifically their tankiness.

 

[Alastor Mobius Toth]

If you think about it, Excelsior-class is easily one of the most enduring, and plain best starship designs in the Federation.

It's not only classy-looking, and has like, the best class name ever, but it's excellent warship and can do literally anything besides that. It's hulls could serve forever, and the class was evidently highly accepting of upgrades.

I suspect 80% of the reason the design of Galaxy-class was such a hog was because the design team asked themselves "So, how do we outdo the Excelsior?"

There's a reason why it's the memetic badass of Starfleet Command universe, even in 3.
"We are the Borg. Lowe-*blam*
"Tactical Excelsior fleet, motherfu-"

 

[Briefvoice]

actually, glassware's vote is tallying properly, so it's not an issue (which both makes sense in a way and is actually odd)

Click to shrink...

Could you please post a tally? I'll switch my vote if it'll stop mass diplomacy from winning.

 

[tryrar]

Refits of existing ships are exceptionally cheap, and we have huge numbers of berths we can't use on Excelsiors. Plus excelsiors are pretty crew-heavy.


No. But rolling replacement is a thing. We'll be phasing out the Centaur and Constellation Refits later, once we're actually near combat cap.

I know. But the Defiant-class as statted by the QM is an absolute monster - 10 Combat, 6 shields, 3 hull on a tiny chassis with hard-floored crew use. And that was Siskos defiant - they somehow managed to refit the Lakota to the point it was credible threat to a ship that would swat a stock Ambassador like a fly and could probably take a stock Galaxy.

Edit: The point is that refits can keep Explorers viable as first-rate ships for at least two generations, given that the Lakota was a real threat to a ship that casually curbstomps lone peer capital ships.

The reason for the Amarki push is that they are so close. Getting them in one year is a full year of full membership gains from them, probably gets us some access to their shipyard, probably gets us tech bonuses and may get us access to their fleet designs.

I'll admit, I personally think it would be really cool to build a custom next-gen LC with some Amarki design elements, specifically their tankiness.

Click to shrink...

Also, given the martial nature of the Amarki, there's a chance they come with a free weapons design team

 

[tryrar]

Could you please post a tally? I'll switch my vote if it'll stop mass diplomacy from winning.

Click to shrink...

Spoiler: Tally Results

Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) | Page 185 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.4
[X]Plan Balanced Diplomacy, Industry, and Refit
No. of Votes: 16

Spoiler: Voters

Plan: ◈Balanced Diplomacy, Industry, and Refit
Plan: ◈Balanced Diplomacy, Industry, and Refi
AKuz
aledeth
ClawClawBite
DarknessSmiles
Derek58
Glassware
Iron Wolf
Muer'ci
NHO
Night_stalker
pheonix89
Tasoli
Theunderbolt
tryrar
Void Stalker
Yeangst

[X]Plan Balanced Diplomacy and Refit 140
No. of Votes: 5

Spoiler: Voters

Plan: ◈Balanced Diplomacy and Refit 140
AlphaDelta
Briefvoice
HearthBorn
lbmaian
Random Member

[X] Plan Constellations and more diplomacy
-[X] Request approval to formally add a Cardassian Border Zone to the Key Sector list, 15pp (Adds a new Border Zone, Cardassian events will take place there instead of potentially in home sectors)
-[X] Request Refit Program for Constellation class [+1 C,S,D, for 20br, 10sr, 1 Year (4 turns)], 6 turns 40pp (NB: new unit cost for Constellation will be 70/45)
-[X] NEW Request expansion of Outposts in the Tellar Sector, 10pp (4 turns, +5 Defence in Tellar, more colonies with outposts if state of emergency ensues)
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Rigellians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Betazoids
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Caldonians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Amarki
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Caitians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Gaeni
-[X] Request approval to make the Ship Design Bureau a Vice Admiral billet, 15pp (Ship Design Bureau will be commanded by a Vice Admiral instead of a Rear Admiral)
No. of Votes: 1

Spoiler: Voters

Plan: ◈Constellations and more diplomacy
fasquardon

-[X] Request expansion of Outposts in the Tellar Sector, 10pp (4 turns, +5 Defence in Tellar, more colonies with outposts if state of emergency ensues)
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Caitians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Rigellians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Betazoids
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Gaeni
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Caldoians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Orion Union
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Amarki
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Sydraxians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Kadeshi
-[X] Request Mining Colony at Pygmalion 337 IV-3, 8pp (4 turns, gain +20 br / year)
-[X] Request approval to formally add a Cardassian Border Zone to the Key Sector list, 15pp (Adds a new Border Zone, Cardassian events will take place there instead of potentially in home sectors)
No. of Votes: 1

Spoiler: Voters

SuperSonicSound

[X] Plan Return of the Constitution
-[X] Request approval to formally add a Cardassian Border Zone to the Key Sector list, 15pp (Adds a new Border Zone, Cardassian events will take place there instead of potentially in home sectors)
-[X] Request Refit Program for Constitution class [Constitution-class acquires stat block listed below], 8 turns, 50pp
-[X] NEW Request expansion of Outposts in the Tellar Sector, 10pp (4 turns, +5 Defence in Tellar, more colonies with outposts if state of emergency ensues)
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Rigellians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Betazoids
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Orion Union
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Amarki
-[X] Request approval to make the Ship Design Bureau a Vice Admiral billet, 15pp (Ship Design Bureau will be commanded by a Vice Admiral instead of a Rear Admiral)
No. of Votes: 0

Spoiler: Voters

Plan: ◈Return of the Constitution

---

——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: COUNCIL
[x][COUNCIL] Plan Emphasize Growth MK II
-[X] Request expansion of Outposts in the Tellar Sector, 10pp (4 turns, +5 Defence in Tellar, more colonies with outposts if state of emergency ensues)
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Caitians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Rigellians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Betazoids
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Gaeni
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Caldoians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Orion Union
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Amarki
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Sydraxians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Kadeshi
-[X] Request Mining Colony at Pygmalion 337 IV-3, 8pp (4 turns, gain +20 br / year)
-[X] Request approval to formally add a Cardassian Border Zone to the Key Sector list, 15pp (Adds a new Border Zone, Cardassian events will take place there instead of potentially in home sectors)
No. of Votes: 8

Spoiler: Voters

Plan: ◈Emphasize Growth MK II
Arbit
Artemis1992
bryanfran36
Darkandus
Katsuragi
Kelenas
UbeOne
Winged One

[X][COUNCIL] Plan Expansion
-[X] Request Refit Program for Constellation class [+1 C,S,D, for 20br, 10sr, 1 Year (4 turns)], 6 turns 40pp (NB: new unit cost for Constellation will be 70/45)
-[X] Request approval to formally add a Cardassian Border Zone to the Key Sector list, 15pp (Adds a new Border Zone, Cardassian events will take place there instead of potentially in home sectors)
-[X] Request expansion of Outposts in the Tellar Sector, 10pp (4 turns, +5 Defence in Tellar, more colonies with outposts if state of emergency ensues)
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Caitians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Rigellians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Betazoids
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) : Caldoians
-[X] Science Academy Expansion, 20pp (Gain +1 Techs throughput)
-[X] Request Mining Colony at Pygmalion 337 IV-3, 8pp (4 turns, gain +20 br / year)
-[X] Request Mining Colony at Galus V, 8pp (4 turns, gain +15 br / year)
No. of Votes: 2

Spoiler: Voters

Plan: ◈Expansion
Nix
pbluekan

Total No. of Voters: 33

 

[AlphaDelta]

Could you please post a tally? I'll switch my vote if it'll stop mass diplomacy from winning.

Click to shrink...

And this is why we need Single Transferrable Vote

Cool, but impractical.

 

[pheonix89]

Also, given the martial nature of the Amarki, there's a chance they come with a free weapons design team

Click to shrink...

Doubt it. The defining feature of Amarki ships is not their firepower, which is on the low side of average. It's that they are exceedingly durable. More likely to get a Ship Construction team if we get a team.

 

[tryrar]

Doubt it. The defining feature of Amarki ships is not their firepower, which is on the low side of average. It's that they are exceedingly durable. More likely to get a Ship Construction team if we get a team.

Click to shrink...

Which I'd also be ok with

 

[Gingganz]

The reason for the Amarki push is that they are so close. Getting them in one year is a full year of full membership gains from them, probably gets us some access to their shipyard, probably gets us tech bonuses and may get us access to their fleet designs.

I'll admit, I personally think it would be really cool to build a custom next-gen LC with some Amarki design elements, specifically their tankiness.

Click to shrink...

I like the Amarki, but 10pp just to get them one year faster? And I am entirely fine with waiting one year before designing a new ship so we can add Amarki design elements

It also seems to me that a lot of people underestimate the long term benefits of pushing a race to affiliate status. As affiliates their diplomatic relations improve by 15 on average, every year.

 

[Briefvoice]

I like the Amarki, but 10pp just to get them one year faster? And I am entirely fine with waiting one year before designing a new ship so we can add Amarki design elements

It also seems to me that a lot of people underestimate the long term benefits of pushing a race to affiliate status. As affiliates their diplomatic relations improve by 15 on average, every year.

Click to shrink...

Eh, it's not all a numbers game. People really like the Amarki, while a lot of those potential affiliates have nothing particularly exciting about them. I'm fine with choosing based on coolness.

Heck, that's a big reason I voted for the Constitution refit. Sure I know it might not be the most maximally efficient choice if I numbered everything out, but I love the idea of Constitutions remaining in service for a long time and I'm not at all excited about the Renissance class.

 

[pheonix89]

People really want to see what the actual full membership effects are, I suspect.

And of course we know there's some membership related tech gain and the Amarki have very good ships, so getting the membership may well help our fleet upgrade plans.

 

[Nervos Belli]

To put it in perspective, the Connie refit is an M3 Lee situation: The M3 Lee was created because the US army needed a 75mm armed tank, and combine with the British Army's request for 3000+ tanks, they needed it NOW. So they came up with a compromise design that had the big 75mm in a sponson side mount, rather than in a full turret; it wasn't the most efficient or practical design, but it worked, and they built a ton of them. But they were withdrawn pretty quickly when the Sherman became available in large numbers.

Where this analogy breaks down is that the M3 Lee was at least able to be re-purposed for other things, like the successful m7 Priest SPG, as well as various tank recovery vehicles. The Connie, meanwhile is only an option because some people are panicking and saying "we need better LCs NOW!" when that is simply not the case, is furthermore unable to be re-purposed further, and in any case upgraded Centaurs can cover just fine until Rennies become buildable.

Click to shrink...

The M3 Lee also earned the unfortunate nickname among the Russians "A coffin for six brothers".

Personally, I think all the refits are a waste of resources. I'd rather invest our pp in new colonies and budget increases than mediocre improvements to a bunch of ships we're going to scrap in a few years anyways. Let's just tech up for a few years then start the Renaissance around 2308.

 

[HearthBorn]

Well, the thing I don't like about your plan is the Connie refit, which I still maintain is a square peg round hole situation due to us not really building another one of them to our single existing one.

Click to shrink...

I wouldn't mind changing the plan to the Centaur, but I suspect most of the votes for my entry was for the Connie in particular. Also, the votes look to favor Plan Balanced Diplomacy, Industry, and Refit, and to me the Mining seems unneeded at the moment.

 

[TheThinker]

[X]Plan Balanced Diplomacy, Industry, and Refit

 

[pheonix89]

The M3 Lee also earned the unfortunate nickname among the Russians "A coffin for six brothers".

Personally, I think all the refits are a waste of resources. I'd rather invest our pp in new colonies and budget increases than mediocre improvements to a bunch of ships we're going to scrap in a few years anyways. Let's just tech up for a few years then start the Renaissance around 2308.

Click to shrink...

But we're NOT going to be scrapping them in a few years. There's three reasons to scrap ships:

One: They are so obsolete they are a liability in basically any scenario - the Soyuz is getting there.
Two: We need the crews for something better.
Three: Impending combat cap.

Only the Soyuz is near case one.
We've got Soyuz and Miranda Classes to scrap before two kicks in.
And three is not happening anytime soon because we're at less than half cap.

Meanwhile refits substantially improve our capabilities quite cheaply.

The Connie "Refit" is waste, but that's because the Connie "Refit" isn't a refit. It does NOT improve existing assets, it gives us an LC that is a dead end refit wise and will be superceded inside of a decade.