There's a significant problem with this plan. You stock the ship with the number of torpedoes you expect it to use before it has to restock, yes. But Kirk's FYM wasn't out in the middle of nowhere. He was often near or even in Federation space, frequently returning to starbases or the like, and his ship certainly didn't carry enough supplies of much more critical materials like dilithium for the warp core to go for five years without restocking.

More seriously, though, there's a much harder cap on the number of torpedoes you carry. Torpedoes are used in combat. It is almost a certainty that the ship will only fight a relatively small number of engagements before it takes sufficient damage it has to return to a base for repairs. (Especially since you're fighting alone as a FYM ship, so you can't even random-chance to "They shot everybody else.") The torpedo supply is only intended to cover it for that many engagements (and a half, maybe, just in case you use a lot in one). At that point it may need to have the entire magazine replaced, never mind restocking on torpedoes.
Plus, photons aren't quantums, they share supply with ship's antimatter storage. How many photons you can drop until you are out of fuel in the middle of nowhere and forced to slowly crawl back home on fusion?
 
Captain's Log - 2316.Q2.M1
Captain's Log, USS Atuin, Stardate 25970.9 - Captain Vol Chad

After the discovery of the Hishmeri Septs, the Explorer Corps has retasked us from Rigellian space and towards the Rimward frontier, where we will be cooperating with Vice Admiral Sotak and the Central Theatre. We want to have a very clear idea of what is in the systems that lie in the path of the Hishmeri. Prime Directive is one thing, but if any pre-warp cultures lie undiscovered in the path of these raiders, we need to know.

[Beep]

Bridge, Chad here, what is it? They're doing wh-

-

Captain's Log, USS Odyssey, Stardate 25971.3 - Captain Langa Mbeki

The Science Directorate of Caldonia has agreed to dispatch a top-level delegation to meet with some of the dissidents to discuss their concerns. However, while in orbit around Lomay II, Chief Marcel of our Intel detachment made an alarming discovery. There is a suggestion that one of the pseudoscience cults is convinced that any Directorate delegation will be coming to spread sterilisation gas or some such rot, and plans to ambush and destroy the delegation en route.

Or was it mind control gas? It's hard to keep track.

-

Captain's Log, USS S'harien, Stardate 25971.8 - Captain T'Rinta

Unusual energy fields emitted by the unstable Nolean star have indicated some promising properties for particle alteration. With my science officer, I have conducted an experiment by placing a cobalt-monocyllium jacket around the photon-torpedo casing we were able to convert a series of asteroid deposits into materials used in warp matrix bypasses.

[Gain +30sr, +5rp]

-

Bridge Transcript, USS Cheron, Stardate 25972.5

[Audio] ... Yrill... Carr...l... Red C... require aid! ...activate-it's coming aro...ain...! We're hit, it's-!


[Comms Lt] We've lost the transmission, Captain.

[Sensors Lt-Cdr] Captain, I've picked up a very high-energy discharge from the Red Caravel's last known position. Actually, Captain, I have a new warp signature ... it's headed for Vega!

[Captain] Lay in an intercepting course. Execute.

-

Captain's Log, USS Atuin, Stardate 25970.9

After the discovery of the Hishmeri Septs, the Explorer Corps has retasked us from Rigellian space and towards the Rimward frontier, where we will be cooperating with Vice Admiral Sotak and the Central Theatre. We want to have a very clear idea of what is in the systems that lie in the path of the Hishmeri. Prime Directive is one thing, but if any pre-warp cultures lie undiscovered in the path of these raiders, we need to know.

[Beep]

Bridge, Chad here, what is it? They're doing wh-

-

Captain's Log, USS Kearsage, Stardate 25973.1

The Halakk research station in Orion Space is dedicated to biomedical research, but recently went silent. We found it, still intact in orbit around the planet Halakk, or Maros IV, where it is tasked with studying biochemically active frog-like creatures. It appears, however, that one of their research samples escaped containment, and wiped out the crew. Together with the Zephyr we assessed the risks, but still came up short with how virulent this strain was. Our initial away teams, including my Chief Medical Officer and Head of Science, were infected, and diagnosed with barely a day to live. I led a team down to the surface with the doctor and chief of science from the Zephyr, and together we were able to find a specimen of the original creature, which we were able to use to synthesise a cure.

[Gain +10rp]

-

Captain's Log, USS Renaissance, Stardate 25973.4

A deposit of a key component in the latest duranium alloys was located in a peculiar crystalline spire on Mocates II, not far from Wellbeck. The process behind the creation was some manner of nutrient leaching, which is not very effort effective as a process. I wouldn't recommend it for a larger exercise with our current technology, but we nonetheless obtained a considerable amount.

There were a few bashful faces among the Rigellian prospecting community when the news broke, apparently.

[Gain +25br]

-

Captain's Log, USS Atuin, Stardate 25970.9

After the discovery of the Hishmeri Septs, the Explorer Corps has retasked us from Rigellian space and towards the Rimward frontier, where we will be cooperating with Vice Admiral Sotak and the Central Theatre. We want to have a very clear idea of what is in the systems that lie in the path of the Hishmeri. Prime Directive is one thing, but if any pre-warp cultures lie undiscovered in the path of these raiders, we need to know.

[Beep]

Bridge, Chad here, what is it? They're doing wh-

-

Captain's Log, USS Odyssey, Stardate 25973.7

It was not easy to talk some of the local dissidents into giving us the ambush location, but we were able to impress on them how important it was for the future direction of their people that this action not go ahead. Hopefully, we can also talk the members of the Caldonians Against Forced Government Sterilisation Action Committee - and yes, it was the sterilisation gas not the mind control gas it appears - to back down.

-

Captain's Log, USS Cheron, Stardate 25974.2

The ship that destroyed the independent Yrillian ship was an ancient battle drone of some fashion, an artefact of a war fought by a long forgotten species. While investigating some ruins in an asteroid belt, the Red Caravel activated the dormant system, which then destroyed it, and started up ancient programming that told it to destroy Vega. We met it in combat, and were able to scramble the ship's programming with a tight beam communication on a port that we determined was left open for a maintenance mode. The drone has been safely destroyed now.

[Gain +5rp, +5pp]

-

Captain's Log, USS Atuin, Stardate 25970.9

After the discovery of the Hishmeri Septs, the Explorer Corps has retasked us from Rigellian space and towards the Rimward frontier, where we will be cooperating with Vice Admiral Sotak and the Central Theatre. We want to have a very clear idea of what is in the systems that lie in the path of the Hishmeri. Prime Directive is one thing, but if any pre-warp cultures lie undiscovered in the path of these raiders, we need to know.

[Beep]

Bridge, Chad here, what is it? They're doing wh-

-

Captain's Log, USS Odyssey, Stardate 25974.7

The Action Group was lamentably a little more hard-headed than some of their associates, and opened fire on us. However, even pseudoscientists have a fairly reasonable ability to evaluate the odds when they do no discernible damage to our shields, and we drop their shields in one phaser volley. They dropped their shields, and agreed to send across representatives to parlay. I believe we have defused this situation.

[Gain +15pp, major summit goes ahead to help reconcile the Caldonian situation]

-

Captain's Log, USS Atuin, Stardate 25975.2

I'll send along some of the technical details with the Chief Science Officer's report, but suffice to say it makes for interesting reading. Perhaps someone will even get to read it after someone finishes stamping "temporal" over it.

To give the cliff notes version, we endured a collision with a Risan Heavy Corvette, that was running something tremendously ill-advised with their warp engines. When their highly unstable cochrane field intersected ours, we were obliterated in a subspace-temporal inversion ... which led to a temporal loop, which we only managed to get out of because of one of our Gaeni science officers was doing something equally ill-advised that was creating a stable temporal pocket within the temporal loop.

When we finally broke the loop and avoided the collision, I chased down the Risan Heavy Corvette and gave its Captain and Helm officer a sharp dressing down. Reports of competitive after-parties on the Dawn of Spring and Atuin are complete lies.

[Gain +5rp, +25 relations with Risa]

-
 
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I totally came in about to say something about the repeats.

Well-played, Oneiros. Well-played.

EDIT: Also Torpedo Fairy supports 400 torpedoes per ship as a logical course of action.
 
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edit: oh hey, new update

Okay, to be fair, the hulls DO look different. But then, the refit Constitution-class looks significantly different from the original design visually. The nacelles have been completely rebuilt, the largely non-glowy deflector dish is replaced by a blue glowy one, there is much higher reliance on torpedo armament (if the movie vs TOS plotting is any guide).

Suffice to say that it's one of those eternal "lumper versus splitter" debates. You can argue for a fundamental break in the design lineage anywhere from the 2245-era Connies to the 2315-era Rennies, but WHERE do you draw that break? There's no one place to do it that's obviously much less arbitrary than any others. And all four models (Connie-nil, -A, -B, and Rennie) share certain fundamental characteristics of layout, all are built on roughly the same size hull, and the Renaissance has nearly identical performance to the last-generation refit Constitutions with the sole noteworthy distinctions of being significantly more durable and better furnished.

So do we 'split' the lineage into three or four distinct types? Or 'lump' them into four subtypes of the same basic design? I mean, the Rennie looks more like an old Constitution than the modern Atlas V rocket looks like an old Atlas I rocket.
Well I was actually thinking that the original Constitution didn't look like the TOS version, since it was so... well, it had 1960s production values, okay? I would've thought that the difference in looks between Constitution and Constitution-A would've been more akin to that in the Kelvinverse - that is, not a huge change.

Technically speaking though, ignoring looks altogether, I would group ship "types" by their refitability. Constitution can refit into a Constitution-A. Constitution-A likely could've been refit into a Constitution-B if it wasn't for the age and hull strengthening shenanigans of the remaining Constitution-As. Constitutions cannot be refit into a Renaissance at all.

Now, I can understand if the Romulan Naval Intelligence Service would've been less privy to ship construction details like refitability, and if interservice rivalry was really that severe, I can see the Tal Shiar not sharing such details. Still, I do think they'll eventually align designations within a decade or so, just to avoid confusion in the higher ups.

Okay, let's try that again then.
Yay

2293Q4: Former NCC-2002 build commissions as NCC-1701-B USS Enterprise. To appease the Tellarites, a recently completed Miranda-class escort, one of the last frigates to be finished prior to the end of the Rogers admiralty, is christened as USS Miracht.

2293Q4: Captain Kirk lost aboard Enterprise during commissioning trials. There is a brief delay in laying down the keel of the next explorer at Sol; pre-Khitomer this ship had been scheduled to commission as NCC-2005 USS Kumari.
And the curse begins...

2293Q4: The President, taking personal command of Starfleet in the wake of the Cartwright conspiracy, authorizes continued Excelsior construction on schedule, as a symbol of Federation unity and commitment to exploration. Personal appeals from Kirk play a significant role in this decision. NCC-2002 is slightly rushed into service for political reasons, in order to recommission the new ship as USS Enterprise promptly, after the decommissioning of NCC 1701-A.
Hm I don't think Enterprise would be rushed at all? 2290Q1 to 2293Q4 (or 2294Q1 by ETC reckoning) is a standard 4 year build time.

2295Q1: USS Sarek resumes assembly in the Sol three-megaton berth; the terrorist attack has set back construction by approximately a year.

==ROGERS ADMIRALTY BEGINS==

2297Q4: NCC-2004 USS Sarek commissions in Sol shipyard.
Right this is getting nitpicky, but: Honestly, I'm not sure why you don't just have Sarek start in 2294 in the San Francisco berth, right after the Enterprise is commissioned, and just have Lor'Vela shipyard finished two years later. It would avoid the gymnastics of berth migration.
 
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Captain's Log, USS Atuin, Stardate 25975.2

I'll send along some of the technical details with the Chief Science Officer's report, but suffice to say it makes for interesting reading. Perhaps someone will even get to read it after someone finishes stamping "temporal" over it.

To give the cliff notes version, we endured a collision with a Risan Heavy Corvette, that was running something tremendously ill-advised with their warp engines. When their highly unstable cochrane field intersected ours, we were obliterated in a subspace-temporal inversion ... which led to a temporal loop, which we only managed to get out of because of one of our Gaeni science officers was doing something equally ill-advised that was creating a stable temporal pocket within the temporal loop.

When we finally broke the loop and avoided the collision, I chased down the Risan Heavy Corvette and gave its Captain and Helm officer a sharp dressing down. Reports of competitive after-parties on the Dawn of Spring and Atuin are complete lies.

[Gain +5rp, +25 relations with Risa]​

Truly, there is light at the end of the tunnel.​

Wow, considering what you said the initial rolls were like, Chen's bonus is doing work.
I suspect they would have spent the next decade trapped in a perpetual standing wave of Risan space parties.

They may not be entirely glad the Gaeni science officer figured out what was going on. :p

That said... There is a Gaeni. And they are manipulating time. This is NOT GOOD unless he's part of the Sobering Movement.
 
Captain's Log, USS Atuin, Stardate 25970.9 - Captain Vol Chad

After the discovery of the Hishmeri Septs, the Explorer Corps has retasked us from Rigellian space and towards the Rimward frontier, where we will be cooperating with Vice Admiral Sotak and the Central Theatre. We want to have a very clear idea of what is in the systems that lie in the path of the Hishmeri. Prime Directive is one thing, but if any pre-warp cultures lie undiscovered in the path of these raiders, we need to know.

[Beep]

Bridge, Sulu here, what is it? They're doing wh-

You put Sulu instead of Chad here Admiral.
 
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... and what the heck, Office 0 really needs to get their shit together ASAP (as ironic as that is). I think we're averaging a temporal incident every year now?
Nah, but none of those are timeline breaking. Except the one that caused the establishment of the office in the first place. But that was a necessary evil.
 
Captain's Log, USS Atuin, Stardate 25975.2

I'll send along some of the technical details with the Chief Science Officer's report, but suffice to say it makes for interesting reading. Perhaps someone will even get to read it after someone finishes stamping "temporal" over it.

To give the cliff notes version, we endured a collision with a Risan Heavy Corvette, that was running something tremendously ill-advised with their warp engines. When their highly unstable cochrane field intersected ours, we were obliterated in a subspace-temporal inversion ... which led to a temporal loop, which we only managed to get out of because of one of our Gaeni science officers was doing something equally ill-advised that was creating a stable temporal pocket within the temporal loop.

When we finally broke the loop and avoided the collision, I chased down the Risan Heavy Corvette and gave its Captain and Helm officer a sharp dressing down. Reports of competitive after-parties on the Dawn of Spring and Atuin are complete lies.

Wasn't this the plot of a TNG episode?
 
I hope Oneiros canonizes Dizzy se we can have her running Utopia Planita some day.
She is utterly, utterly unfit to actually command a large organization. She can do almost anything as long as she has someone else's authority to operate under, but independent command responsibility would paralyze her almost instantly.

There's a significant problem with this plan. You stock the ship with the number of torpedoes you expect it to use before it has to restock, yes. But Kirk's FYM wasn't out in the middle of nowhere. He was often near or even in Federation space, frequently returning to starbases or the like, and his ship certainly didn't carry enough supplies of much more critical materials like dilithium for the warp core to go for five years without restocking.
My understanding is that the ships were stocked with enough of SOME things that might not be available at every random outpost in the Federation (e.g. dozens of photon torpedoes) to last five years.

More seriously, though, there's a much harder cap on the number of torpedoes you carry. Torpedoes are used in combat. It is almost a certainty that the ship will only fight a relatively small number of engagements before it takes sufficient damage it has to return to a base for repairs. (Especially since you're fighting alone as a FYM ship, so you can't even random-chance to "They shot everybody else.") The torpedo supply is only intended to cover it for that many engagements (and a half, maybe, just in case you use a lot in one). At that point it may need to have the entire magazine replaced, never mind restocking on torpedoes.[/QUOTE]Again, one issue is that torpedo casings can get used for a lot of things other than just blowing up enemy ships.

Torpedoes can be modified in various ways as probes and decoys.

Is there an asteroid headed for a friendly outpost? You might want to be able to fire like 200 torpedoes at it, rather than wait two weeks to whistle up a whole fleet of ships that have enough torpedoes to destroy the enemy ship by combined firepower.

Torpedo casings are a customary accoutrement in a burial-at-space. On the 2266 five year mission, Enterprise took 56 casualties in the first three years alone. Another ship might do worse; some of our ships have (e.g. S'harien on her first five-year mission under Saavik).

Furthermore, it is very much possible that torpedoes of this era were significantly less powerful than those of the TMP/TBG/TNG era. Note that when Nomad was firing huge energy blasts at the Enterprise, each blast was described as carrying the energy of 'ninety photon torpedoes' and it STILL took several to bring down the Enterprise's shields. There may be a reason that Kirk usually ordered his crew to fire phasers, not torpedoes. If so, that would explain both the larger number of tubes, and the very large magazine- because the torpedoes weren't very decisive unless fired in large numbers.

Plus, photons aren't quantums, they share supply with ship's antimatter storage. How many photons you can drop until you are out of fuel in the middle of nowhere and forced to slowly crawl back home on fusion?
I don't know. It could be that the total antimatter supply required to detonate all 400 torpedoes at maximum yield would exhaust the ship's fuel supply. It could be that it would require only a small fraction of the fuel supply. If we take it as fact that 400 torpedoes were loaded, it is reasonable to suppose that the Enterprise was designed with the ability to actually fire all 400 torpedoes, without anything going too badly wrong as a direct, inherent consequence.

Well I was actually thinking that the original Constitution didn't look like the TOS version, since it was so... well, it had 1960s production values, okay? I would've thought that the difference in looks between Constitution and Constitution-A would've been more akin to that in the Kelvinverse - that is, not a huge change.
I don't understand what you're getting at here. I mean, sure we can assume that the 2260s-era Connies 'really' looked different (and fancier) than the models used in TOS. But it seems reasonable to assume that the TOS-era models at least got the general size and shape and configuration of the ship right- that the nacelles really were round, that any glowy bits glowed red and not blue, et cetera.

Technically speaking though, ignoring looks altogether, I would group ship "types" by their refitability. Constitution can refit into a Constitution-A. Constitution-A likely could've been refit into a Constitution-B if it wasn't for the age and hull strengthening shenanigans of the remaining Constitution-As. Constitutions cannot be refit into a Renaissance at all.
Fine, but my point is that this is a "lumper/splitter" argument. It's not a case of "calling the Rennies Constitution-Cs or Type C.IV is objectively wrong and dumb."

It's a case of you (and the Tal Shiar) saying "There are similarities between these two things, but not enough to trigger my own personal threshold of 'these are part of the same categories.' " It is at best harmlessly wrong about a matter of taste and I'd strongly suggest we let the matter drop, with full awareness that it IS a lumper/splitter debate and inherently subjective.

Hm I don't think Enterprise would be rushed at all? 2290Q1 to 2293Q4 (or 2294Q1 by ETC reckoning) is a standard 4 year build time.
Only by a few months- the ship would launch in, like, October '93 instead of January '94 or something.

Right this is getting nitpicky, but: Honestly, I'm not sure why you don't just have Sarek start in 2294 in the San Francisco berth, right after the Enterprise is commissioned, and just have Lor'Vela shipyard finished two years later. It would avoid the gymnastics of berth migration.
Because then you need an explanation for why Lor'Vela wasn't still there and available at game start. We had to start that shipyard up manually, and the best explanation I could think of was that the facility was badly damaged, associated with a political disaster (like Rogers' two-megaton Ares berth), or both.

You need a second Excelsior berth to have been in operation for at least four years somewhere in the Federation in order to explain how the Federation was able to construct five Excelsiors by 2301Q4, but you also need to knock that berth back out of action prior to 2300. I could have done it differently (e.g. have the Lor'Vela berth be empty when the Andorian separatists attacked it), but I honestly like it better this way.

Remember, for me the goal isn't "dry minimum parsimony." The goal is "construct a viable narrative, one that takes into account the inherent complexity of real life things like building ships, while factoring in what was going on in the political background of the story." I'm not trying to construct a timeline to comply with Occam's Razor, I'm trying to construct one that's interesting and has bits and pieces someone can think about and play with.
 
Again, one issue is that torpedo casings can get used for a lot of things other than just blowing up enemy ships.

But not in the numbers you would use them in combat. Ones and twos mostly. The only case you'd actually use twenty or forty torpedoes outside a battle situation would be in a mass casualty event that would almost certainly send you back to a Starfleet outpost anyway because you need replacements for those people. (That would have been a significant fraction of your crew on a Connie as-built, and a lot of the things that would do that much damage in the first place require repair not possible with means aboard.) The controlling factor for the design is still how many of them you will fire in the average combat, and how many average combats you can make it through before you will have to return for repairs. Maybe you give them a whole extra fight's worth of torpedoes for misc. purposes, rather than a half. That could easily cover the sort of things they'd do between visits to a starbase or major colony that are actually seen/mentioned in the show.
 
...And I first thought the repeating Atuin posts were an error on Oneiros's part.
 
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